Who is the best 6 in the world?

My opinion Ferris.

discuss

Mike Phillips on his head - Discuss

At the minute ferris given that Kaino s injured and juan smith has been out for an eternity. If fit Juan smith is the best

At the moment Schalk Burger is also injured,Ferris has just about won this by default.

Ferris is an outstanding player one of the best players in the NH this season, let's see how he does in NZ this summer before christening him the best 6. Also I would say Dusautoir plays as more of an openside, otherwise I would probably say he is as good as Ferris.

Burger wouldn't be in the running. Smith would. Dusatoir is still about mind you. Some cracking blindsides about.

Ferris is a beast, glad I'm too old to be in his way....but is he the most rounded 6 out there? Actually gone for Lydiate. Big enough and hard enough but with better all round skills. In my humble opinion of course.

If fit Jerome Kaino,Adam Thomson if picked there is as good,Dusatoir ismostly a 7.Juan Smith plays like a 7,Burger is one whois comfortable anywhere inthe back row.Boks usually play right and left,not 6 and 7 changed with introduction of Broussow.

Right now its Stephen Ferris in my opinion although I'll accept that there a is strong argument for Dusitoir or Kaino.

Ferris can do everything you want in a 6 to the highest level and more: tackle, carry, lineout lift and jump, hit rucks, strong on the deck. Hes improved his handling and added a new subtlety to his game.

He's one of the fastest forwards around and I recall him catching Spies from behind a few seasons ago and hauling him down one handed. His strength and power is incredible but he reads the game well too.

I've watched nearly all his performances since returning from a potentially career threatening injury last summer and his form has been simply phenomenal for both Ulster and Ireland. About 4 quietish games apart he's been arguably the best player on the pitch every time hes played.

To be honest theres a fair argument that hes the outstanding player in World rugby in any position right now.

Oh yeah did I mention hes an Ulsterman too......

6 is one of the most hotly competitive positions in world rugby today. Compare this with a thread on the top 5 flyhalves and it´s like night and day.

Let´s face it, if fully fit, you´re not going to moan about Burger, Ferris, Kaino, Lydiate, Smith or Dusatoir in your team. Even Croft had a good game the other day. I don´t know who´s best in the world in this position - possibly Ferris because he´s been playing regularly in recent times - but I really wouldn´t care who was in my team out of the ones in the OP. They´re all beasts. I can´t think of a position in world rugby so hotly contested. I put up a thread with only blindsides in the pack and centres in the backs. They would get hammered in the scrums but most of the opposition forwards would have been stretchered off before you got a scrum awarded in any event!

Rodders

Ferris handling is better than anyone else on that list bar maybe Kaino. His offloading is scarily good. As Kia says though you wouldn't turn your nose up at any of them

I think Ferris is far and away the form 6 in the world and I genuinely don't see Lydiate anywhere near him. However, Kaino and possibly Dusatoir at their very best are better players.

Far and away? Up against that talent. No. Otherwise the OP would be who is the best 6 in the world after Ferris if that were the case. Hyperbole indeed.

I mean Kaino for example was one of the most consistent players in any position in 2011. At their very best? Other than the World Cup final, tell me a match when he wasn´t operating near his very best?

Dssatoir is way ahead of Ferris, I`d put Lydiate, Kaino, Croft and Burger ahead as well. I think the Irish backrow is the most over-hyped unit in world rugby.
Ferris IS a good player but Heaslip??????, O`Brien???????? come on!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Far and away? Up against that talent. No. Otherwise the OP would be who is the best 6 in the world after Ferris if that were the case. Hyperbole indeed.

Well there's no one else close to him at the moment. Dusatoir is off form, Lydiate is good at what he does which seems largely defensive, though a few Welsh guys have argued otherwise so I'll be watching him with a very open mind on Saturday. The Super 15 is only just started in reality and alot of guys have only played a couple of games, injured, or playing themselves into form. That is why I am saying Ferris is the form 6 in the world, but the best? I thin Kaino and Dusatoir on form are better.

Dusatoir, Kaino and ferris are a level above the rest on that list. The others are very good, just a level below.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I mean Kaino for example was one of the most consistent players in any position in 2011. At their very best? Other than the World Cup final, tell me a match when he wasn´t operating near his very best?

Kaino is injured, hard to show form in that state. As I said Ferris is the form 6 in the world, but that doesn't make you the best player. Kaino is I think the best 6 by a distance, and at the top of his game is unparalleled. Dusatoir at times singled handedly dragged France through the World Cup and last seasons Six Nations. He is well below that standard at the moment, but I think he is a better player when in form than Ferris. I think thats pretty straight forward.

I confess I don't watch much SH rugby these days but am pretty familiar with Kaino.

In the NH Dusitoir and Ferris are a different level to everyone else. If you include opensides in the debate then I'd throw O'Brien and Warburton in there too. Ferris is the man on form though.

No disrespect to Croft and Lydiate etc. but they are not in the same league as those 4 in my opinion.

Well I don´t think you should discount players because they´re not in the season. I did say Ferris at the moment is playing the best but the OP is who is the best 6 in the world. Not best 6 in the world right now as I´m typing. Previous form has to be taken into account because of that. Form doesn´t take into account the last couple of weeks from a world rugby perspective. It does take into account injury which is why Smith is out of the picture not because like Kaino who is out now for six months but because over the last year he hasn´t had much competitive rugby.

At top form and fitness Juan Smith is on a different level to all of the others on this list. Sadly we have not seen that for a while due to injury, but my uunderstanding is that he is due back for the Cheetahs soon, so hopefully we will see just how good he is again.

Standulstermen wrote:Dusatoir, Kaino and ferris are a level above the rest on that list. The others are very good, just a level below.

+ 1... I could have just said that rather than waffling on I suppose.....

Running Dragon wrote:Dssatoir is way ahead of Ferris, I`d put Lydiate, Kaino, Croft and Burger ahead as well. I think the Irish backrow is the most over-hyped unit in world rugby.
Ferris IS a good player but Heaslip??????, O`Brien???????? come on!

O'Brien was European player of the year last season, you know, the best player in Europe over the course of the season. Lyidate and Croft are well behind Ferris- I have seen this in the Welsh and English media this week.

Ozzy3213 wrote:At top form and fitness Juan Smith is on a different level to all of the others on this list. Sadly we have not seen that for a while due to injury, but my uunderstanding is that he is due back for the Cheetahs soon, so hopefully we will see just how good he is again.

This. Damn shame he hasn't played more in the last few years. He was by some distance the best player at RWC 2007.

Standulstermen wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:At top form and fitness Juan Smith is on a different level to all of the others on this list. Sadly we have not seen that for a while due to injury, but my uunderstanding is that he is due back for the Cheetahs soon, so hopefully we will see just how good he is again.

This. Damn shame he hasn't played more in the last few years. He was by some distance the best player at RWC 2007.

I'll second that, he was an absolute monster in 2007 RWC, but then he always is when he plays.

what impresses me most about him is the type of person he is, he has never forsaken the cheetahs for big money. Loyal, humble, hard worker and a Great.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Well I don´t think you should discount players because they´re not in the season. I did say Ferris at the moment is playing the best but the OP is who is the best 6 in the world. Not best 6 in the world right now as I´m typing. Previous form has to be taken into account because of that. Form doesn´t take into account the last couple of weeks from a world rugby perspective. It does take into account injury which is why Smith is out of the picture not because like Kaino who is out now for six months but because over the last year he hasn´t had much competitive rugby.

That is why I made a difference between short-term and longer-term form. Ferris is the the form 6 at the moment, and I believe that is by quite a distance. However, if all things are equal which they rarely are given the different playing seasons, injuries etc, I would have Kanio and Dusatoir in the team ahead of him.

Where does Gordgodze rate on peoples lists?

He always impresses me on the rare occaisions I watch him. He is a monster for sure.

The battle between him and O'Brien in HEC this season was brutal.

I think Haskell is a good player too and better than Croft.

biltongbek wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:At top form and fitness Juan Smith is on a different level to all of the others on this list. Sadly we have not seen that for a while due to injury, but my uunderstanding is that he is due back for the Cheetahs soon, so hopefully we will see just how good he is again.

This. Damn shame he hasn't played more in the last few years. He was by some distance the best player at RWC 2007.

I'll second that, he was an absolute monster in 2007 RWC, but then he always is when he plays.

what impresses me most about him is the type of person he is, he has never forsaken the cheetahs for big money. Loyal, humble, hard worker and a Great.

I have always been more impressed with Smith for the Cheetahs than the Boks. In a team often going backwards he was a standout. That said, he has been out injuries and out of form as a result for so long you have to wonder will he ever get back to close to what he was. I remember being a teenager watching Bobby Skinstad playing and thinking he was phenomenal. He was never the same after the car crash, I think it was before the World Cup in 1999.

Yeah, bobby was never the same again, not sure if it was only the accident that changed his form and impacted his career only though.

We can only hope juan Smith recovers fully, it will be a shame to not see him at his best again.

Problem is with NH team's during the six nations, fans always proclaim players world class after having good games against the likes of Italy and Scotland but when it comes to the big boys their often oblivious.

Can any Frenchmen around here clear up the Dusatoir thing:

He always plays with 6 on his back, but from what I've seen he frequently packs down at 7 and is generally deployed more as an openside.

Is this right?

It's weird, because I think Dusatoir is the best in the world at what he does,....but Ferris and Kaino are better 'all-round' 6's.

Also, Jacques Burger frequently plays on the openside, doesn't he?

Ferris was pretty good against australia monty

He was better than good stand, he was a motm contender.

He had a very impressive autumn 2010 series too, performing well against the ABs, Argentina and SA. Kaino and Reid definitely came off the better in that 2010 game but Ferris had a pretty good game, scoring a good try.

Ferris was outstanding in the 2009 GS run too, his best performance probably coming against England.

Hes definitely reached a new level since coming back last summer though. Far better even than his 2009 Lions form.

roddersm wrote:He was better than good stand, he was a motm contender.

He had a very impressive autumn 2010 series too, performing well against the ABs, Argentina and SA. Kaino and Reid definitely came off the better in that 2010 game but Ferris had a pretty good game, scoring a good try.

Ferris was outstanding in the 2009 GS run too, his best performance probably coming against England.

Hes definitely reached a new level since coming back last summer though. Far better even than his 2009 Lions form.

On one knee as well Rodders.

Adam wrote:Can any Frenchmen around here clear up the Dusatoir thing:

He always plays with 6 on his back, but from what I've seen he frequently packs down at 7 and is generally deployed more as an openside.

Is this right?

It's weird, because I think Dusatoir is the best in the world at what he does,....but Ferris and Kaino are better 'all-round' 6's.

Also, Jacques Burger frequently plays on the openside, doesn't he?

Adam they often use a left and right flanker system in France, rather than openside and blindside.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

roddersm wrote:He was better than good stand, he was a motm contender.

He had a very impressive autumn 2010 series too, performing well against the ABs, Argentina and SA. Kaino and Reid definitely came off the better in that 2010 game but Ferris had a pretty good game, scoring a good try.

Ferris was outstanding in the 2009 GS run too, his best performance probably coming against England.

Hes definitely reached a new level since coming back last summer though. Far better even than his 2009 Lions form.

On one knee as well Rodders.

If I'd have known he'd improve so much I'd have kicked him in that knee a few years ago...

Shouldn't Juan Smith be there for SA even tho he wears 7? It won't be popular and I'm not claiming that he's better than the list above, but I think Kelly Brown is an unheralded 6 who does a lot of great work for Scotland - just saying for the record

To be honest, as an Englishman, a measure of Ferris is how much more confident I would be about tomorrow were he not on the pitch.

He's a serious beast, and has the full package of skills you want in a 6. English backrow will have to massively step-up tomorrow to stand a chance.

Another thing that puts Ferris' quaility into perspective is O'Brien, who is one of the most explosively physical backrowers in the world but who - alongside Ferris - can appear a bit one-dimensional and lacking the all-round ability to get the most out of his pure physicality

Ok fair play Hookisms.

Biltong seems to think Burger will make the move to 8. If you had a fully fit Smith and Broussow at 7 that´d make an even more fearsome back row than Ireland and NZ by some distance.

Kaino is out for six months so expect Ferris to be a danger man for Ireland in the 3 match series in NZ. It´ll be a good match up this weekend against Croft. Will Ferris outplay his rival number by some distance? On form I agree he should but another good test to see where he´s at.

Austin Healey on twitter the other day claiming it was croft! utter madman

The problem is its a question of what you want from the position. The issue with Croft is that he is one hell of a player - and one who does some things (e.g. lineout) better than anyone on that list - but is a lot less 'conventional' (and confrontational - in the right way) as Ferris or even Lydiate. Its impossible to pick a single player because its impossible to agree on a single set of criteria. - There are some very good players on that list though.

For me when fit its Kaino. Just a class act.

Going by the 6 Nations though I would pick Lydiate. For me he's probably Wales most important player at the moment.

Honourable mention to both Croft and Ferris who have equally played well this tournament.

Should make for a hell of a Lions selection as 1 of those 3 will probably miss out.

The thing with Croft, okay he's done something very eye-catching recently, but if you look at him over the years, he's had plenty of good games but a fair number of average/anonymous ones too. I don't see how you could rate him as alongside Ferris, Dusautoir and others.

Dan Lydiate suffers from the opposite - he doesn't do eye-catching things, but hard graft. Guscott has him down as his player of the 6N so far. I'm not saying he's the best of those listed, by the way, but he does tend to get a bit underestimated.

Smith will never return IMO... he's been out for too long and with SA's talent for producing backrow talent I think his days are numbered.

Outside of Smith I doubt any other team in the world can muster players such as

Vermeulen, Koster, Louw, Burger, Johnson, Smith, Brussow, Alberts, Strauss, Kankowski & Spies playing at any one time.

Ferris and Kaino in terms of world leading, are at the top at the moment but its certain a position where their are a host of players putting their hands up at the moment.

BlueNote wrote:The thing with Croft, okay he's done something very eye-catching recently, but if you look at him over the years, he's had plenty of good games but a fair number of average/anonymous ones too. I don't see how you could rate him as alongside Ferris, Dusautoir and others.

Dan Lydiate suffers from the opposite - he doesn't do eye-catching things, but hard graft. Guscott has him down as his player of the 6N so far. I'm not saying he's the best of those listed, by the way, but he does tend to get a bit underestimated.

Bluenote,

Im one of Crofts biggest critics, i prefer a powerhouse at 6 and feel Croft is a luxury. However, this 6n i have been impressed with Croft..not for his flash work outwide or his lineout...but for his unseen type work using his pace to get to the breakdowns first slowing up opposition ball and generally being a menace in rucks etc. He has also tackled like a demon...and his cover tackles have been try saving.

Its like he's been told to stop playing the Leicester 6 style and play a more traditional way and its working.

Now im not sold yet...but its a huge improvement on previous versions....

went for Kaino, think over the last year or so he was brilliant. like alot of people already said though there are lots of brilliant 6s. In 6 nations think Ferris just edges it.

He's obviously got a lot of qualities, GeordieFalcon, maybe he's just not been used properly, I don't know. He has been good this 6N, and was good on the last Lions tour. Anyway, it's going to be a strong position for the Lions.

No disrespect to Croft and Lydiate etc. but they are not in the same league as those 4 in my opinion.

Depends entirely on what you think a good 6 should be. If you weigh it favour of lineout ability, hands, speed and footwork then Croft wins at a canter but if you focus on the bruising tackles and monster carries then he'll be down the list.

A lot of it has do with the team game and the balance of the pack. Notice for instance the difference between Croft in the early part of the 6N when England lacked a ball carrying 8 and were playing tight and kicky to the Wales and France games where wider play and Morgan featured. Similarly Ferris plays much better in the tighter games for Ireland where his physicality comes to the fore (it helps that big games are generally tight ones) but in games like the 1st game of the 6N against the Welsh he was not as his best because the game was moving away from his natural strengths.

The only one on that list who I'd back in every circumstance and could step into every backrow in the world and add something would be Dusatoir just because his skill set is so unbelievably well rounded.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No disrespect to Croft and Lydiate etc. but they are not in the same league as those 4 in my opinion.

The only one on that list who I'd back in every circumstance and could step into every backrow in the world and add something would be Dusatoir just because his skill set is so unbelievably well rounded.

I voted for Dusatoir for just that reason, despite lacking the rampaging ball carrying of Ferris, his all round play is brilliant and he has carried France through some games. Not on the list but mentioned above, Juan Smith has been the best 6 in the world over the last 5 years or so in my opinion, it would be a real shame if his career petters out through injury.