Who is the best 6 in the world?

First topic message reminder :

My opinion Ferris.

Kaino for me.

Im suprised Lydiate makes the list. I wouldnt even say he is the best 6 in Wales at the moment thats probably Ryan Jones. Lydiates play however fits perfectly with Faletau and Warburton, hes a grafter that along with Faletau allow Warburton to do his thing. He isnt in the same league as the others yet neither is Croft.

Bathman and Sam, I agree with your summations re Croft and Dusatoir being exceptionally well rounded.

But from my point of view it's Kaino who's the most rounded. He seems comfortable in the tight games (superb against OZ in RWC) and also in the loose with more ball playing. It's a shame he's out of the game for a while.

Juan Smith is also superb as Billtong on the others have mentioned. And as fa0019 pointed out, look how many SA backrows of supreme quality there are!

Also as Osprey points out Lydiate shouldn't really be on that list at the moment. He has some excellent defensive attributes and has performed well, but I hardly think you could put him on that list. Particularly if you're not going to include Croft, who had a storming Lions tour etc...

Ferris.

What surprises be about SA is that whilst they have a wealth of talent in the backrow they do struggle to produce a similar number of centres... (especially given that many of the attributes in the modern game are now rather similar i.e. big, strong and fast ball carriers).

Don't get me wrong with players like Fourie, JDV, De Jongh & Frans Steyn they are are not stuggling for world class players but they do have a depth issue.. especially given that Olivier would be next on the list!!!!

I think I would trust Jamie Noon over that guy.

With regard to the calls for Croft - Ferris has systematically outplayed him every time they are on the same pitch, be it Ireland vs England or Ulster vs Leicester.

Corft and Ferris are different players though... Ferris is more of your A-typical blindside no nonsense enforcer whereas Croft is more of the Juan Smith, Richard Hill mould.

Personally I think Croft is well underrated and many teams would love to have a player like him in their side... he provides so many options to a team.

Ferris is at the moment playing very well but I wouldn't say he is standout compared.

Really????? dont think Croft is anything like Richard Hill

I just want everyone to carry on underestimating lydiate.

slartibartfast wrote:I just want everyone to carry on underestimating lydiate.

I agree, whilst he isnt the best in the world he is so important to the balance of the welsh team, he's the one player i feel we miss more than anyone when injured (although my own argument falls down when Adam Jones is out). There really are some top 6's out there and for me Ferris and Kaino are the benchmark. I don't see the fuss about Croft, can be good then invisible week on week.

slartibartfast wrote:I just want everyone to carry on underestimating lydiate.

There's no one underestimating him. He's not the best 6 around, but he does a great job for Wales, and one of the reason he does such a great job is because he knows his role within the team and his own strengths and plays to them. He's very much a team player. Just because a poster thinks that a non welsh player is better than a welsh player doesn't mean that they don't rate or respect them.

Ferris making a tackle is a sight to behold. He was just born to knock people over. He doesn't just successfully complete tackles. He drives players back metres and lands them on their backsides, sucking any momentum out of an attack and giving his teammates the opportunity to make a turnover. I particularly like his hobby of literally picking up scrumhalfs and running with them.

There's lots of great 6's. Ferris's form since coming back from injury has been phenomenal. I'd say he's the best at the moment. I just hope those knees hold up for a few more years and he gets to play a Lions test. I heard he has almost no cartilage left, which doesn't sound good.

Dusatoir against Lydiate should be a cracker tomorrow and hopefully Danny boy will finally shut his doubters up.

Over the past number of years it's been Juan Smith. Shame he's injured at the moment.

Currently playing it's Kaino, then probably Ferris.

Dusatoir is an openside in my book, and in form I'd have him in my team over anyone on this list.

Juan Smith, even with a snapped achilles - still the best.

Dusautoir and Elsom follow some way behind.

Ferris goes awol against top notch opposition.

Juan Smith

Some pace from Juan Smith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8tu6-GvK2g

some power Juan Smith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5srxTpF6Lkg

Incredible player, hope he comes back fully firing because he's a joy to watch even as an England fan.

Form BS is Kaino after a great season & world cup.

Ferris is fantastic but can't be judged with Smith/Kaino till he performs against the SH teams which I've never really seen him do.

Lydiate should not be on that list I'm afraid.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Ferris is fantastic but can't be judged with Smith/Kaino till he performs against the SH teams which I've never really seen him do.

You must not have seen him during the world cup against Australia then. Just back from a career threatening injury and he was simply awesome.

Even as a huge Lydiate fan one thing I think he lacks compared to some of the best is speed but he more than makes up for that with his work rate and is still only 23 where ae Smith is 30, Kaino 28, Ferris 26 and Duastoir 30

Gretgael1 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Ferris is fantastic but can't be judged with Smith/Kaino till he performs against the SH teams which I've never really seen him do.

You must not have seen him during the world cup against Australia then. Just back from a career threatening injury and he was simply awesome.

Ferris did play well that game but hardly awsome, that big hit on Genia aside he didn't exactly dominate. I seem to recall SOB having a cracking game though.

I was thinking more SA/NZ tbh, the Aus pack isn't really a good gauge.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Gretgael1 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Ferris is fantastic but can't be judged with Smith/Kaino till he performs against the SH teams which I've never really seen him do.

You must not have seen him during the world cup against Australia then. Just back from a career threatening injury and he was simply awesome.

Ferris did play well that game but hardly awsome, that big hit on Genia aside he didn't exactly dominate. I seem to recall SOB having a cracking game though.

I was thinking more SA/NZ tbh, the Aus pack isn't really a good gauge.

No, he was pretty awesome that night against Australia.

He's been on the winning side against both Australia and South Africa, two out of three ain't bad I suppose. He scored a nice try against NZ as well the last time they played in Ireland.

"No, he was pretty awesome that night against Australia."

Ok, you must be right as you've said it twice now. Cracking player Ferris but nowhere near Kaino or Smith.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:"No, he was pretty awesome that night against Australia."

Ok, you must be right as you've said it twice now. Cracking player Ferris but nowhere near Kaino or Smith.

Thank you for conceding.

I'm not conceding anything.

Your opinion is that he was "awsome" and mine is he played well, not really a debate that can go any further.

fa0019 wrote:Corft and Ferris are different players though... Ferris is more of your A-typical blindside no nonsense enforcer whereas Croft is more of the Juan Smith, Richard Hill mould.

Personally I think Croft is well underrated and many teams would love to have a player like him in their side... he provides so many options to a team.

Ferris is at the moment playing very well but I wouldn't say he is standout compared.

Comparing Croft to Richard Hill should carry an automatic, no appeals, ban from all internet debating forums.

Number 6 should always be the enforcer. The guy who tackles into oblivion and is a brick wall. He needs to be physically domineering.

Ferris, Kaino, Smith, Dusatoir all fit that bill and Lydiate makes up for lack of size by being so technically good in the tackle (to a certain extent dusatoir too).

Croft to my mind isnt a 6. He has given a degree of license by the workrate of Robshaw and against France Parling but to me he is a luxury player. It might well work for england but if robshaw is beaten physically in a game i think Croft will go awol.

Ferris was an absolute beast against Australia Pooly, im not sure what game you were watching. O'Brien only narrowly pipped him to motm.

From 1-8 that night were great performances, apart from Heaslip, who was a little quiet but still played his part. They dominated the set pieces and hit everything in green and gold that came at them. POC, SOB and Ferris really stood out. They totally out muscled Australia in every department that night. It's no mean feat to keep that Australian team tryless, and every player was part of a huge defensive effort that night.

And as far as conceding goes, at first, you said he never preforms against a SH team, only to say he played well in your last post. And you avoided the fact that he has been part of an Irish team that has beaten two out of the three SH teams.

But you're right, our opinions differ and it's a debate that can go no further.

Did some one just say Lydiate makes up for his lack of size.He,s 6ft4in and 18 stone how big are the others on that list if he has to make up for his lack of size

Thank you for conceding.....

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Thank you for conceding.....

"And you avoided the fact that he has been part of an Irish team that has beaten two out of the three SH teams."

Ferris played ok against Aus but I meant NZ/SA when I stated SH (Obviously Aus are SH but their pack is pretty poor in Int terms especially without Pocock who didn't play that game)

Just because Ireland may have won a game against SA/NZ doesn't automatically mean Ferris had a blinder.

I rate Ferris highly and he's up there with the best the NH can offer. I just haven't seen or imagine him dominating somebody like Kaino or Smith who are much better players for me.

Dusautoir. Does the seen and unseen things brilliantly and constantly performs in a way which lifts the entire team around him to greater heights especially against the strongest of opposition in the highest profile of games. None of the others does that.

As an Englishman, I'm almost embarrassed to see Croft's name on this thread (as indeed I'm sure TC himself would be). He's a good player and, after last weekend, hopefully on the up but let's see him do what he hints at consistently well over a period of time before we all start coming over all Austin Healey.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:"And you avoided the fact that he has been part of an Irish team that has beaten two out of the three SH teams."

Ferris played ok against Aus but I meant NZ/SA when I stated SH (Obviously Aus are SH but their pack is pretty poor in Int terms especially without Pocock who didn't play that game)

Just because Ireland may have won a game against SA/NZ doesn't automatically mean Ferris had a blinder.

I rate Ferris highly and he's up there with the best the NH can offer. I just haven't seen or imagine him dominating somebody like Kaino or Smith who are much better players for me.

Don't seem to remember them ever beating NZ.

At present I'd go with Kaino closely followed by Dusautoir. Looking forward to see how Ferris goes again this winter down under. He seems to be progressing very well but needs to keep performing at his maximum against the big 3 especially.

Linebreaker
You are right Ireland havent beaten the All Blacks in over a hundred years.Perhaps they will do it this year?In the absence of players like Jerome Kaino.

I've noticed a few Irish posters saying this (or maybe they're being optimistic with good cause) but I still think that long-standing record will remain intact.
Easier said than done... but I agree this year is as good a time as any in the last 100 or more years to break that voodoo.

Laurie, will the absence of a handful of star players like Kaino really help Ireland this summer? I'm less certain than some, and if I was Irish I'd be fearful that the replacements old be gusting a gut in the AB jersey to prove their worth

Linebreaker wrote:I've noticed a few Irish posters saying this (or maybe they're being optimistic with good cause) but I still think that long-standing record will remain intact.
Easier said than done... but I agree this year is as good a time as any in the last 100 or more years to break that voodoo.

I doubt it being said with any conviction, more out of hope, like every supporter has a little bit of hope before a game. If you read the irish comments during the 6 nations, this hope is fading fast.Ireland seem clueless at times, most want a change of tactics and a change of coach. Although things have got better, it's too little too late I feel. I'm predict a 3 nil series win to NZ, but I hope that's not the case

Yeah, I see what you're saying... things have changed slightly in recent times.
Like you, I'd be happy to see Ireland avoid the 3-0 whitewash and make some more rugby history.

Happy St Pat's Day by the way, Gretgael. Best of luck later on today!

"Who's the best 6 in the world"

Not Ferris

Ferris wasnt the best number 6 that I saw playing this morning.