An indication of the regions finances?

Speaking to rhys buckley before the dragons game last night and he said that the contract he was offered was less than what he could earn as an electrical engineer (which he is qualified as), which is why he couldnt accept the contract and so was subsequently released, he was on verge of signing for blues but they pulled the plug again due to money issues,

it now makes sense to me why even squad players are upping sticks and moving out of wales

Gavin - I think that there is also the problem that the regions need to keep money back to retain the big names, and they think that they can stiff the money out of the lower rated players as they would be happy to have a job.

Most likely this 'exodus' will be the top level of the non-international players as opposed to the 'stars', for that very reason.

This is why the WRU needs to step in and provide some assistance it's going to get all out of hand otherwise.

I agree to be honest. I believe we would not be too effected if a number the international side upped and left to france or england, as we would still have the next level down playing in wales and wanting to prove themselves. However if we lose the next level down then we could well end up in the poopie.

WRU needs to centrally contract our top players and the Regions need to offer the rest of their players at least £30,000 a year. BTW, do you have any other examples? Buckley is a hooker, a position I think we have decent cover in.

*EDIT - it might not seem obvious to some, but that's contract only the top players that ply their trade in Wales at a Welsh team.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I agree to be honest. I believe we would not be too effected if a number the international side upped and left to france or england, as we would still have the next level down playing in wales and wanting to prove themselves. However if we lose the next level down then we could well end up in the poopie.

Watched the Wales v France U20's game tonight. Some big boys in that French side who are as much French as me.
Should we do the same?

I guess one question I have for the Welsh posters is how important they feel strong regions are to the continued success of the national side? It doesn't always follow that there is a link, Ireland have conspired to underachieve this season relative to their 3 provinces in the Heino QFs, but it would surely be harder if Blues, Scarlets, and O's dropped down the pecking order in the Rabo and were less competitive in the European games?

You could argue that Buckley is low down the pecking order at the Dragons, and so maybe an electrical engineering level contract is all he should command. This season we had Willis as intended first choice, Lloyd Burns, Steve Jones, Parry and they started converting Huw Gustafson to hooker (started at hooker for Pontypool the other day). Willis has retired, but that still leaves Steve Jones, Burns, Parry, Gustafson, and Buckley, and don't forget Jamie Sollis the current Wales under 20's player. If Buckley was the future then they wouldn't bother converting Gustafson, so I get the impression that he's surplus to requirements. It's rare for us, but hooker is the one position where we've got a bit of depth. It's probably a bit too congested to be honest!

I don't think a sport where you're are risking your life, especially a position like hooker commands a salary lower than an electrical engineer regardless of their place in the pecking order

I think realistically you can only spend what you can generate and the regions have run at a loss for far too long.

The WRU is doing everything it can to help the regions, but the WRU cant do what it did in the late 90's and bankrupt itself to prop up professional Welsh teams.

The question for Buckley is does he want to pay professional rugby or not? If he does then he'll likely have to take less money than he is making now, or become an electrician.

Personally I'd argue many people play football and rugby for free because they enjoy it, and anyone offered any kind of professional contract is very lucky.

gowales wrote:I don't think a sport where you're are risking your life, especially a position like hooker commands a salary lower than an electrical engineer regardless of their place in the pecking order

So what about the thousands of players in the lower leagues that do it for the love of the game and no wages? It's probably just as dangerous, arguably more so, in the lower leagues.

gowales wrote:I don't think a sport where you're are risking your life, especially a position like hooker commands a salary lower than an electrical engineer regardless of their place in the pecking order

Electricity can be dangerous.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I agree to be honest. I believe we would not be too effected if a number the international side upped and left to france or england, as we would still have the next level down playing in wales and wanting to prove themselves. However if we lose the next level down then we could well end up in the poopie.

Watched the Wales v France U20's game tonight. Some big boys in that French side who are as much French as me.
Should we do the same?

France are taking advantage of the "Shingler Effect" French players who played in this match are now tied to France as this is a game between two nations nominated second national senior sides.

Seagultaf wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I agree to be honest. I believe we would not be too effected if a number the international side upped and left to france or england, as we would still have the next level down playing in wales and wanting to prove themselves. However if we lose the next level down then we could well end up in the poopie.

Watched the Wales v France U20's game tonight. Some big boys in that French side who are as much French as me.
Should we do the same?

France are taking advantage of the "Shingler Effect" French players who played in this match are now tied to France as this is a game between two nations nominated second national senior sides.

I've read also that France may well attempt to attract British youngsters even before they're toilet trained just to ensure they qualify to play for France.
That is wrong and the IRB need to address this. Take note NZ?

AlynDavies wrote:I think realistically you can only spend what you can generate and the regions have run at a loss for far too long.

Do you have an opinion on why Cardiff Blues decided to vacate the Arms Park?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:I think realistically you can only spend what you can generate and the regions have run at a loss for far too long.

Do you have an opinion on why Cardiff Blues decided to vacate the Arms Park?

That was just a case of keeping up with the Jones'. The Ospreys had moved to the Liberty, the Scarlets were moving to Parc Y Scarlets, and the Blues didn't want to be left playing catch-up with the others. After all they are the capital city side so they need to be seen to be having the best (if not atleast on a par) ground/facilities. Also the Blues slight slump in form after winning the EDF Cup, followed by the Amlin Cup may have effected things too.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:I think realistically you can only spend what you can generate and the regions have run at a loss for far too long.

Do you have an opinion on why Cardiff Blues decided to vacate the Arms Park?

That was just a case of keeping up with the Jones'. The Ospreys had moved to the Liberty, the Scarlets were moving to Parc Y Scarlets, and the Blues didn't want to be left playing catch-up with the others. After all they are the capital city side so they need to be seen to be having the best (if not atleast on a par) ground/facilities. Also the Blues slight slump in form after winning the EDF Cup, followed by the Amlin Cup may have effected things too.

Rubbish guess Scarlet coz you're miles off, but at least you had a bash and I appreciate that.
Have another go if you're interested. 6 or 7 years of stuff to sift through though if you want an accurate-ish answer.
Best not bother actually.
My advice would be to sit back in a comfy chair and watch the results come in.

Dave - so honestly there was no case of keepin up wiht/trying to go one better than the other regions? If there was none of that then I genuinely apologise. I honestly thought that the move to the CCS was down to the other regions stepping into new stadia, and the Bluebirds not being given the go ahead unless you lot joined in.

Yeah I thought it was partly becaus the council wouldn't give the bluebirds the go ahead to build a new stadium unless they had the Blues on board for it. It was part of the criteria they had to meet, or at least that's what the Blues fans I spoke to on Saturday said.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dave - so honestly there was no case of keepin up wiht/trying to go one better than the other regions? If there was none of that then I genuinely apologise. I honestly thought that the move to the CCS was down to the other regions stepping into new stadia, and the Bluebirds not being given the go ahead unless you lot joined in.

No need to apologise as you've said nothing to apologise for, but you're right, it had little to do with keeping up with the Jones's.

Even before a footing was dug at Leckwith (CCS), plans for the "development" of the Arms Park had been outlined which must have been around 2005/2006 if memory serves me right. Wasn't for rugby mind you. You see, this business has been bubbling away for a long time and what has made the whole debacle more difficult to swallow is that ex Cardiff players have been involved in promoting the move to CCS even when many predicted the venture would fail.
Cardiff City Council? The WRU? Both have been involved too BIG TIME in this sorry saga.
Did the fans have a say in any of the above?
No.
Were concerns reported in the local press?
No.
Are Cardiff Blues in the mire?
Yes.
Therefore the default option is blame the fans.
Not you ScarletSpiderman obviously, but you get the picture.

rugbydreamer wrote:Yeah I thought it was partly becaus the council wouldn't give the bluebirds the go ahead to build a new stadium unless they had the Blues on board for it. It was part of the criteria they had to meet, or at least that's what the Blues fans I spoke to on Saturday said.

So in your opinion, why do you reckon Cardiff Blues moved to the mega expensive CCS when average crowds were around 8k or 9k at CAP?
CCS is 27k. Thrice the average basically, on a good day. Bonkers isn't it?

Dave - wasn't it Mike Rayer (or Hall, get those two mixed up) that was pushing the most due to being on the Bluebirds board or something dull like that? He seemed more concerned about the football team than the regional side, or atleast that is how it came across in the WM (but to be honest I only remembered since you pointed it out just now).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dave - wasn't it Mike Rayer (or Hall, get those two mixed up) that was pushing the most due to being on the Bluebirds board or something dull like that? He seemed more concerned about the football team than the regional side, or atleast that is how it came across in the WM (but to be honest I only remembered since you pointed it out just now).

Mike Hall.
Checkout the link below to the company he is a director of and the property development projects they've been involved with.

http://www.pmg-plc.com/directors/michael-hall/