Scotland - What the numbers show

First topic message reminder :

Without wishing to start another vitriol squirting match about the use of statistics to assess how good players are, I just wanted to set out a few player statistics for the tournament (courtesy of the Telegraph):

1. Lineouts won on own throw
1 Richie Gray Scotland 19
1 Ian Evans Wales 19
3 Tom Croft England 17

2. Offloads
1 Julien Malzieu France 11
2 Ross Rennie Scotland 8
2 Sean Lamont Scotland 8
4 Louis Picamoles France 6
4 Mike Phillips Wales 6
6 Dave Denton Scotland 5
6 Richie Gray Scotland 5

3. Clean Breaks
1 Alex Cuthbert Wales 7
2 Stuart Hogg Scotland 6
2 Robert Kearney Ireland 6

4. Defenders Beaten
1 Wesley Fofana France 16
2 Robert Kearney Ireland 15
2 George North Wales 15
4 Alex Cuthbert Wales 14
5 Leigh Halfpenny Wales 11
6 Dave Denton Scotland 9
6 Toby Faletau Wales 9
8 Stuart Hogg Scotland 8

5. Carries
1 Dave Denton Scotland 65
2 Toby Faletau Wales 59
2 Sean Lamont Scotland 59

6. Metres
1 Andrea Masi Italy 451
2 Robert Kearney Ireland 448
3 Ben Foden England 347
4 Stuart Hogg Scotland 300

7. Tackles
1 Thierry Dusautoir France 72
2 Ross Rennie Scotland 68
3 Stephen Ferris Ireland 59

8. Team Turnovers
1 Italy 82
2 France 79
3 Scotland 70
4 Ireland 65
5 England 64
6 Wales 56

9. Team Carries
1 Scotland 644
2 Wales 593
3 France 499
4 Ireland 465
4 Italy 465
6 England 389

10. Team Offloads
1 Scotland 63
2 France 51
3 Italy 31
4 Wales 30
5 Ireland 29
6 England 21


I'd like posters' thoughts (particularly those who still think that Robinson should stay) on whether they also think that these numbers tend to show (amongst other things) that the problem is (a) the lack of quality in the backline and (b) the gameplan that does not seem to reward attacking play and good handling with tries.

These statistics are also interesting in the context of who might be considered for Lions places in the future.

Well done to Wales incidentally - worthy winners and playing a fine brand of rugby.

beshocked wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Unfortunately experience is not the main prerequisite for being a good captain, just look at Warburton, a perfect example, still only 23, or even your other example, Robshaw, who was given the captaincy on his second (2nd) cap! It comes fom leadership kills, which take many forms, some of which are based on action, some on words. We all knew Ford would lead from the front, as would Brown have, but equally we all acknowledged that they were both quiet men, unlikely to give the rousing speeches or wear their hearts on their sleeves. Gray fits the talent requirement, but strikes me as too laid back.

You'll have to let me know when I said Beattie should be captain? Must have missed that one

Bit harsh to call Kelly Brown a quiet man. On Saturday he sung in front of over 80,000 rugby fans at Twickenham on behalf of Sport relief - admittedly he wasn't on his own but had he kicked off proceedings with a solo verse.

I think losing Kelly Brown was a big blow.He has the winning mentality and confidence that is sorely missing in Scotland at the moment. He would have also been a very handy player to have in the backrow too.

Totally agree, beshocked - in the age of Ferris, Lydiate, Croft, Robshaw, I think that Kelly Brown is unjustifiably forgotten about - can't wait to get him back

beshocked wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Unfortunately experience is not the main prerequisite for being a good captain, just look at Warburton, a perfect example, still only 23, or even your other example, Robshaw, who was given the captaincy on his second (2nd) cap! It comes fom leadership kills, which take many forms, some of which are based on action, some on words. We all knew Ford would lead from the front, as would Brown have, but equally we all acknowledged that they were both quiet men, unlikely to give the rousing speeches or wear their hearts on their sleeves. Gray fits the talent requirement, but strikes me as too laid back.

You'll have to let me know when I said Beattie should be captain? Must have missed that one

Bit harsh to call Kelly Brown a quiet man. On Saturday he sung in front of over 80,000 rugby fans at Twickenham on behalf of Sport relief - admittedly he wasn't on his own but had he kicked off proceedings with a solo verse.

I think losing Kelly Brown was a big blow.He has the winning mentality and confidence that is sorely missing in Scotland at the moment. He would have also been a very handy player to have in the backrow too.

By all accounts Kelly is a karaoke legend. Euan Murray is too by all accounts I've heard.

George Carlin wrote:

beshocked wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Unfortunately experience is not the main prerequisite for being a good captain, just look at Warburton, a perfect example, still only 23, or even your other example, Robshaw, who was given the captaincy on his second (2nd) cap! It comes fom leadership kills, which take many forms, some of which are based on action, some on words. We all knew Ford would lead from the front, as would Brown have, but equally we all acknowledged that they were both quiet men, unlikely to give the rousing speeches or wear their hearts on their sleeves. Gray fits the talent requirement, but strikes me as too laid back.

You'll have to let me know when I said Beattie should be captain? Must have missed that one

Bit harsh to call Kelly Brown a quiet man. On Saturday he sung in front of over 80,000 rugby fans at Twickenham on behalf of Sport relief - admittedly he wasn't on his own but had he kicked off proceedings with a solo verse.

I think losing Kelly Brown was a big blow.He has the winning mentality and confidence that is sorely missing in Scotland at the moment. He would have also been a very handy player to have in the backrow too.

By all accounts Kelly is a karaoke legend. Euan Murray is too by all accounts I've heard.

Hymms do not count

George Carlin wrote:

beshocked wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Unfortunately experience is not the main prerequisite for being a good captain, just look at Warburton, a perfect example, still only 23, or even your other example, Robshaw, who was given the captaincy on his second (2nd) cap! It comes fom leadership kills, which take many forms, some of which are based on action, some on words. We all knew Ford would lead from the front, as would Brown have, but equally we all acknowledged that they were both quiet men, unlikely to give the rousing speeches or wear their hearts on their sleeves. Gray fits the talent requirement, but strikes me as too laid back.

You'll have to let me know when I said Beattie should be captain? Must have missed that one

Bit harsh to call Kelly Brown a quiet man. On Saturday he sung in front of over 80,000 rugby fans at Twickenham on behalf of Sport relief - admittedly he wasn't on his own but had he kicked off proceedings with a solo verse.

I think losing Kelly Brown was a big blow.He has the winning mentality and confidence that is sorely missing in Scotland at the moment. He would have also been a very handy player to have in the backrow too.

By all accounts Kelly is a karaoke legend. Euan Murray is too by all accounts I've heard.

Is that gospel?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

beshocked wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Unfortunately experience is not the main prerequisite for being a good captain, just look at Warburton, a perfect example, still only 23, or even your other example, Robshaw, who was given the captaincy on his second (2nd) cap! It comes fom leadership kills, which take many forms, some of which are based on action, some on words. We all knew Ford would lead from the front, as would Brown have, but equally we all acknowledged that they were both quiet men, unlikely to give the rousing speeches or wear their hearts on their sleeves. Gray fits the talent requirement, but strikes me as too laid back.

You'll have to let me know when I said Beattie should be captain? Must have missed that one

Bit harsh to call Kelly Brown a quiet man. On Saturday he sung in front of over 80,000 rugby fans at Twickenham on behalf of Sport relief - admittedly he wasn't on his own but had he kicked off proceedings with a solo verse.

I think losing Kelly Brown was a big blow.He has the winning mentality and confidence that is sorely missing in Scotland at the moment. He would have also been a very handy player to have in the backrow too.

By all accounts Kelly is a karaoke legend. Euan Murray is too by all accounts I've heard.

Is that gospel?

Riskysports wrote:Hamilton was pinged several times in the first half, then stopped coming in at the side for almost 50 mins - did it once more and got yellowed in a very bizzar sending off (no-one could quite understand why)

I could. Coming in at the side from an offside position. It was a clear penalty. Andy Nicol moaning about it doesn't change anything. It was a clear offence and equally as stupid as NDL trying to disrupt Gori's service.

I agree with you that Hamilton has a lot to offer, I've been talking him up for years as a very good lock. Similar to Hines in many respects. Good lock, just a shame that sometimes his aggression gets the better of him. Rate them both. Rate NDL as well.