The Physicality Myth

First topic message reminder :

For so long now here and on old 606 people have made the excuse of the physicality of tennis now for blunting Roger Federer's challenge in tournaments. Well I don't believe it really is such a big factor (if at all) as some would have you believe. Sure the players are far more physically fit now and so far better equipped to deal with long drawn out. rallies which players become conditioned to in any case.

Last night we saw Roger Federer beat Rafael Nadal and winning 20+ shots long rallies against Nadal with no sign of wilting or this mythological physicality factor kicking in. Why not? As sure as eggs are eggs it should have played out here especially if you consider the longer matches Roger has had here and far more hectic schedule of late compared to Rafael Nadal who must have felt as fresh as a daisy after more than a month out.

Another thing that bothers me about this physicality factor is this. We all know that David Ferrer is much in the Nadal mould who will stick in a rally like a human limpet and loves the long-drawn out rallies. It means to beat him you need the same physicality that you do to beat Rafael Nadal. Well then why is it that Roger Federer has played Ferrer TWELVE times and is yet to be beaten by the Spaniard? Likewise Andy Murray isn't adverse to playing long-drawn out rallies yet Roger Federer has had the upper hand in the major matches they have played in. Similarly, Novak Djokovic plays war of attrition matches but guess what? Roger Federer has won more matches than he has lost against the Serb. Once again what happened to this mythological physicality factor?

And all this on surface speeds not to Federer's liking either. Seems to be doing very well on the surfaces at the moment.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Federer has had plenty of back problems over the years and we saw it restrain him in Wimbledon 2010 and more recently in the US Open.

And unlike players 5 years younger he doesn't keep harping on about injuries... perhaps they could learn a thing or two from the old man

JuliusHMarx wrote:"A player that's against tennis"? Is that the same as "Death of tennis"?
If you really think that any Rafa fan, by definition, cannot be a 'true' tennis fan (I think that's what you're saying) then it's fair to say we look at things very differently on that point.
I'm not entirely convinced that anyone gets to define what a 'true' tennis fans is and expect everyone esle to agree.

Presumably fans of McEnroe were also not 'true' tennis fans?

Interesting though that you compare being a Rafa fan to being a nazi.

I didn't say Rafa fans are nazis. It was an analogy. If you are going to be a fan of Hitler, support his mass murders, ideals of racism, war and war crimes, then you can be called a true fan of Hitler. I have no problem with anyone being a hitler fan. But now if you also claim to be a fan of Humanity, world peace then this is certainly not going to go well. How can you be a fan of humanity and world peace when you are supporting a person who is killing the former.

If someone is going to support slowing "as a snail" of all surfaces where big servers and S&V players will have no chance anywhere, putting comments like dump trucks of sand to slow down surfaces to hell limits, favoring the breaking rules of tennis, supporting the use of gamesmanship to win, supporting the selfish ideas like reducing no. of tournaments ... etc.. just to see your favorite player win, the you are a true fan of that player. Nothing wrong with this. But for you that player is bigger than the game itself. Now you are no longer a true tennis fan , you have essentially become a true fan of that player.

You may think differently on how a true tennis fan is defined, I have no problems with that. I don't care if anyone agrees to me or not.

Yes I think Rafa fans are no true tennis fans, they are just Rafa fans. I myself was once a Nadal fan when he came on the scene and I supported him in his 2005 FO semis against Fed. But with time he started doing things which I didn't like as in my opinion it was against tennis.

This discussion about 'true' fans is getting silly and boring. JHM, please end it the way you want to. I will agree with it whatever it be.

To all fans, of tennis, of players, of whatever :

reckoner wrote:

Jubbahey wrote:I didn't realise my little article this morning could cause so much postulation as to its reason for being. LOL

Raiders, if you don't understand the point at which criticism, constructive criticism becomes player bashing, then all we are going to do on here is become polarised utterly and completely, if not already.

What you may not realise is that, as Bogbrush has so comprehensively pointed out, a forum is the sum of its members and that sum is directly proportional to its style of contributions.

I am a member of other forums and the difference in the frequency of Anti-Nadal posts on here is striking in their quantity.
Very few articles address tennis in a way that can be talked about without regressing to the Fed V Nadal debate.

As Gav has illustrated, its boring to the extreme and not only forces other posters out (of which no sincere regrets have been expressed) but stops any fresh input as it scares them away. To openly savour another posters exit is probably the most repulsvie manner to have on a forum, but that is the result of polarization and its getting worse.

I was trying to bring something different to the forum in my article this morning, but all it gets is ridicule, apart from a couple of posters appropriate contributions, is there any reason you can give me that would attract my continuing presence here ? because I can't think why I am.

Please don't take this in a negative way, but from an outsider's perspective, your article was asking people to rate tennis players in a kind of top trumps manner.

It leads directly to "my player is more blah than your player" conversations which is a constant on this forum - what exactly is refreshing about that?

That can only happen if a poster has a typical attitude of writing, I don't see many posters on that thread, just one, contributing as you say Reckoner, if Tenez had not already muddied the waters with derogatory references to my article on here then you may not have thought in that way, you certainly didn't allude to that in your initial post.

Jubbahey wrote:That can only happen if a poster has a typical attitude of writing, I don't see many posters on that thread, just one, contributing as you say Reckoner, if Tenez had not already muddied the waters with derogatory references to my article on here then you may not have thought in that way, you certainly didn't allude to that in your initial post.

Actually the thought had crossed my mind already - you're blaming Tenez needlessly at least in this respect.

Good luck with your article.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:I didn't say Rafa fans are nazis. It was an analogy. If you are going to be a fan of Hitler, support his mass murders, ideals of racism, war and war crimes, then you can be called a true fan of Hitler. I have no problem with anyone being a hitler fan. But now if you also claim to be a fan of Humanity, world peace then this is certainly not going to go well. How can you be a fan of humanity and world peace when you are supporting a person who is killing the former.

I find this sort of "analogy" appalling and offensive.

I suppose we have socal to thank for this sort of language being used on these boards, he was the first person I saw using this sort of twisted logic.

In fairness he was drunk at the time and apologised immediately (though I do think he said the same thing again so one has to question the sincerity of that apology), but I do feel that mods could perhaps have had a public word about how INCREDIBLY inappropriate this sort of behaviour is and should do so now.

reckoner, I've said already that I've left JHM to end this thread the way he wants it to and i'll be okay with it.

Consider this as my white flag and apology if you feel offended. To peace.

reckoner wrote:

Jubbahey wrote:That can only happen if a poster has a typical attitude of writing, I don't see many posters on that thread, just one, contributing as you say Reckoner, if Tenez had not already muddied the waters with derogatory references to my article on here then you may not have thought in that way, you certainly didn't allude to that in your initial post.

Actually the thought had crossed my mind already - you're blaming Tenez needlessly at least in this respect.

Good luck with your article.

Just telling it how it is Reckoner, you should have spoken your mind and not waited for "He who should not be named" to announce his displeasure at my article on another thread, which in my view was unnecessary and needless.

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:reckoner, I've said already that I've left JHM to end this thread the way he wants it to and i'll be okay with it.

Consider this as my white flag and apology if you feel offended. To peace.

Fair enough raiders, peace.

Jubbahey wrote:

reckoner wrote:

Jubbahey wrote:That can only happen if a poster has a typical attitude of writing, I don't see many posters on that thread, just one, contributing as you say Reckoner, if Tenez had not already muddied the waters with derogatory references to my article on here then you may not have thought in that way, you certainly didn't allude to that in your initial post.

Actually the thought had crossed my mind already - you're blaming Tenez needlessly at least in this respect.

Good luck with your article.

Just telling it how it is Reckoner, you should have spoken your mind and not waited for "He who should not be named" to announce his displeasure at my article on another thread, which in my view was unnecessary and needless.

I did speak my mind - I told you (very politely) that your survey was too long winded for me and you completely dismissed my input - tell me why should I bother persisting with someone who has no interest in my opinion?

Oh, just when I thought peace had broken out.....

I have no displeasure at your artile Jubba. I cannot care less. You can write 1000s of them if it pleases you....and unlike you I won't complain.

I was just pointing out to the illogical complaint made by you and others about the same stuff being rehashed time and again without you being aware you are an active player of the problem you complain about.

i don't want to prolong this, but I do just want to say this, that I feel that there is a certain amount of finger pointing at Tenez (again) and that he is not the one bringing these articles into the forum - he is exercising his right to reply. He actually has been responsible for some really original posts such as the is Federer better than ever one, which was way ahead of TMF's current purple patch, made everyone think and has actually proved to be quite prescient in that the old guy can clearly hold his own over b03.

There is a brilliant post on 'the old board' where tenez predicts Djokovic's extraordinary run and the way that his game could trouble Rafa if certain inconsistencies in ND's game were ironed out, and also how he considered ND a far better player than AM - he was universally scoffed at by many who cited h2hs and AM's superior Masters tally overall and his title haul that year.

The point of all this is to say that it is worth all of us listening to what is being said sometimes not just discounting it because we don't like the initial premise or we don't get along with another poster.

All hell breaks loose with my latest GOAT article/poll.