Should Andy Robinson go after this 6 nations? (Final Vote)

I do not care if some people think this is boring - final vote

Should Andy Robinson go after this 6 nations? (Final Vote)

Preious vote results

Yes 25% 55% 42% 52% 39% 61% 69%
no 30% 20% 37% 32% 54% 36% 27%
Depends if Scotland finish higher that 2nd last 44% 24% 20% 14% 5% 2% 2%

This from the Torygraph sums it up nicely for me:

Scotland coach Andy Robinson bottom of Six Nations class

By Alasdair Reid

How do you write a report card for the kid who finishes bottom of the class? Some gentle words of encouragement? Stern finger-wagging? Invite the parent round for a chat?

This, it could be argued, has been Scotland’s worst season in history. To the Six Nations whitewash can be added a first-ever failure to reach the quarter-finals of the Rugby World Cup. Andy Robinson has now presided over a run of seven consecutive defeats, Scotland’s worst since 1998, has won just two of the 15 Six Nations games and has taken his team to 12th in the world rankings, their lowest place ever.

And this was the season when things were meant to come together. Robinson had complete control of the players from March last year, controversially withdrawing some of them from their clubs to help them prepare for the World Cup. In Scotland, what Robinson wants Robinson gets. Despite that authority, probably greater than any other coach in the Six Nations enjoys, his team finished last.

As they drowned their sorrows in the bars of Rome on Saturday, few Scotland supporters voiced the belief that Robinson will still be in charge when the 2013 Six Nations rolls round. The coach who came into the job arguing that winning was everything has failed his own examination. “Judge me by results,” he said. We have, and they’re terrible.

But what has been the story behind the numbers? Are there any scraps of consolation to be found? Running the rule over Robinson, his players and the kind of game they tried to play, this is the report card that would be written.

Robinson started conservatively, relying on the tried-and-trusted against England in the opening match. England’s Stuart Lancaster took the radical approach – and won. Robinson responded in familiar fashion by making a change at half-back, prompting Dan Parks’s retirement from Test rugby. Staggeringly, by the time Scotland met France Robinson had gone nine matches without choosing the same half-back combination from one game to the next.

All of which suggested that the team came together by accident rather than design. There were signs of hope in the arrival of players like Stuart Hogg and Jon Welsh, who both made their debuts in the championship, although their performances only led you to wonder what might have happened had they been given their chances earlier in the tournament.

TACTICS

At the start of the championship the coach said he wanted to cause chaos. Well, things certainly looked pretty chaotic at times, although probably not in the way Robinson wanted. Scotland’s game plan came down to swift and efficient recycling of possession and putting width on the ball, but there were no margins for error. When mistakes were made, as they were far too often, the whole thing collapsed.

The departure of Parks meant that the percentage game went out the window. So, too, the territory game. By the end, Scotland’s lateral strategies bore an element close to self-parody, as they whipped the ball from touchline to touchline against Italy yet became bogged down in their own half.

ATTACK

Good in the sense that they created chances; wretched as far as finishing was concerned. Scotland made huge inroads against England and France, and even, latterly, against Wales. But they lacked composure near the line and there were some glaring errors brought on by rushes of blood. Bizarrely, the sports psychologist who had been an integral part of their squad departed after the World Cup and was not replaced. And if ever a team needed some quality time on the couch ...

DEFENCE

In the modern game you don’t need a consistently bad defence to lose games – just one that is bad in patches. Scotland were just that, with individual errors playing a significant part in almost every score they conceded. The defensive system looked solid enough, but their scrambling was poor and critical tackles were missed. Worryingly, they also seemed to go to sleep after half-time. Against England, Wales and Italy they coughed up tries in the opening minutes of the second half.

DISCIPLINE

There could scarcely be a more damning reflection of Scotland’s championship as a whole than the fact they collected more yellow cards (five) than tries (four). Moreover, most of the cards were for moments of individual silliness or petulance rather than necessary sacrifices when the team was under pressure. Robinson was livid with Nick De Luca’ for his needless sin-binning against Wales; returning to the team the centre was then needlessly sin-binned against Italy.

The cards were expensive, too. On almost every occasion when they were a man down, Scotland paid a price on the scoreboard.

SET-PIECE

Scotland’s grim championship found another motif when the line-out fell apart against Italy. The cracks had started to show in the most reliable part of their game – it was flawless through the first three matches – against Ireland, but it was shambolic in Rome. Captain and hooker Ross Ford took responsibility, but others should have helped him to right the listing ship.

The scrum, bolstered by Jon Welsh, had an honourable final game against Italy, but it was creaking badly in the games against France and Ireland. The restart statistics will not do Scotland any favours either, as they came off a distant second best in that phase of the game as well.

I have changed my mind after the last two performances and think he has probably lost the players. Must go, don't care how

Having said that he clearly isn't the only problem with Scottish rugby after the debacle at Warriors with Lineen

From scottishrugbyblog.co.uk:

Scotland’s Looming Predicament

Posted by Alan Dymock at 10.30am

Andy Robinson’s record now stands out like tap shoes in an abbey.

He has led his team to failure in all of this year’s 6 Nations games and understandably is considering his position. The problem is, however, that Scotland’s Head Coach has a position unlike most other coaches in international rugby.

After Saturday’s limp performance in Rome I spoke to a professional rugby player. He said that from what he had heard “The SRU is now like the United States of Andy Robinson”.

Now this may have been said in haste, right after the cheek-searing shame of Scotland losing their way to a wooden spoon. It is almost certainly an overstatement, as well. The sentiment, though, is one I have heard before.

With Andy Robinson in charge Scotland have had their worst ever World Cup and seven straight defeats. There has been a slide down the Rankings and Italy have bested them abroad. By all accounts the national squad has felt the strain, with public lauding of Robinson’s vision but rumours surfacing that the squad have lost hope. They were said to have been pushed hard by the Scotland Under20s team in training a session before the big game on Saturday, after which Robinson allegedly praised the youngsters and looked disgusted with his own team.

If there is a breakdown, though, and there is a frisson of malcontent would Robinson take this into account? The reason this is important is that Robinson would have to walk to leave his job, because Mark Dodson has backed him till 2015.

Robinson has a fire guard of a contract and has surrounded himself with people that can solidify his position. Pro coaches have been shifted around without positions even being advertised, and he certainly had a hand in that. When he first arrived everyone intoned that Scotland had poached themselves a real star coach. Yet, with the team posting poor results and the man holding such high esteem at EH12, no one else can get the blame.

If no one is going to say that Scotland must accept that our players make up a second tier team in International terms –something even the most depressed of thistle wearers are wary of stating –then Robinson must shoulder the cross.

Ah… but there could be ways of escaping this. The coaches under him are leaving and there is a spate of new players. The baying crowd are told of progress in attempts to quell their blood lust. Political moves like shifting Sean Lineen can momentarily turn the crowd’s heads. Robinson could take a step upstairs in the coming weeks, to a Director of Rugby position (putting a title to a role he already holds).

If his pride swells and he gets a-swallowing, though, he could walk. There is only so much embarrassment a competitive man can take.

What if he walks, then? What fresh hell awaits the Scottish fans? Well with young promising individuals like Gray, Denton, Scott, Hogg, Weir, Welsh, Jones and Visser, Scotland could very well compete in the future, but before such a time there would be political issues.

In a move to further insulate Robinson’s position there have been the signings of new Australian coaches. One of them has a track record of walking away from jobs he does not like. If Robinson jumps, what will happen with Scott Johnson and Matt Taylor?

There is a tour of the Southern Hemisphere coming up pretty soon and most of that same squad will be there. If there is tension or there is an mood descending would a few new coaches change that? This certainly has to be talked out. There cannot be a situation where Robinson retreats into his shell and choreographed press releases swirl around news rooms. This has to be hammered out.

I have said it time and time again, but those in charge of Scotland need to make it clear to the nation what the long term plan is. Don’t keep people in the dark. It is disrespectful to a country that got caught up at the start of the campaign, filling stadiums, but who were ultimately let down.

For example, if, like England, this had been labelled a transition year things would be a tiny bit better now. Yet England obliterated expectations, while Scotland reneged on them. England talked of working towards the future publicly, while David Denton was allowed to say openly that Scotland could have won four games. This was one example of reckless PR and Andy Robinson is left to look silly.

If Robinson walks there will be turmoil. Scott Johnson could walk, too. Other people could have to answer questions about the long term vision for Scotland. Conversely, if he stays he or the SRU could lose credibility. It is a tough little conundrum.

Scotland, there is a problem clacking towards you. What’s it gonna be?

Jeebus H feicing Christ

Can we vote for before the 6 nations?

If Robinson walking means Johnson walking also, then I have no quarms about that at all.

This weekend has been the worst I have ever felt as a Scotland supporter. I cannot even be bothered fighting the pish taking from the Welsh at work.

Scotland were truly truly awful on Saturday and I feel massively disappointed for the fans that went over.

Someone in the SRU needs to voice their displeasure and say enough is enough. It's getting worse and worse and we are the laughing stock of world rugby, football (well done Killie by the way), golf etc etc.

The consequences of the dire National team performance (in addition to Lineengate) could possibly have a profound effect on Glasgow's push for play off glory and Edinburgh's chances of making the HC semi's.

Action needs to be taken now before it's too late so please Mr Robinson, get tae Falkirk right away.

he won't walk, so you'll have to sack him.

Awful championship, made worse by the fact Scotland seemed to get worse as it went on rather than better. The only positives to take from it are some individuals coming in and doing well (Denton, Rennie, Hogg) and the continued emergence of Richie Gray as a world class lock. Apart from that, nada. The stat about more yellows than tries is particularly damning, while the defence was absolutely awful throughout (Laidlaw, creative though he is, can't defend or kick from hand).

where do Scotland go from here? Not sure really, they need to identify a clear game-plan, the men to make it work, and go from there. Get rid of the deadwood (Morrison, De Luca, Lamont, Murray, Kellock) and start building. Something like

Jacobsen
Ford (one awful game against Italy, but was pretty good otherwise)
Welsh (impressed against the Italian scrum)
Gray (class)
Hamilton (still offers grunt)
? (not too sure, but not Barclay who isn't a blindside)
Rennie (impressive 6N debut)
Denton (ditto)
Blair
Weir (have been impressed by him in the H Cup, offers a kicking game which Laidlaw doesn't while still able to get a backline moving)
Evans (out of form most of the 6N, but has a creative spark)
Scott (have heard great things about him, a creative 12 for Scotland is a must)
Ansbro (very good player, should do well outside Scott)
Jones (worth persevering with, showed good promise but needs to work on defense)
Hogg (very impressive start to international rugby).

So not many changes, the main ones being the 10-12-13 axis, mainly because I believe Scotland have good players, but aren't making the most of them.

If you add Brown in 6, you have a good team

Riskysports wrote:If you add Brown in 6, you have a good team

Brown, that's the one I was looking for! thanks

Progression so far, says it all

Pat_Mustard wrote:Progression so far, says it all

Thanks, was not sure how to chart it -

If the man had integrity he'd of resigned already.

"Judge me on results", is what he has asked, well... knocked out of the World Cup at the pool stages, scraped past Georgia by 9 points and Romania by 10, then white washed in the following 6 Nations.

A small element of Scottish fans may cling onto wins against weakened Tri Nations teams, but to be honest those Tri Nations teams probably looked past Scotland to tougher games ahead, and were ambushed.

Scotland need to be doing a lot better with these players than the results show. You can throw up all the stats you want, but the only stats that matters are Points Scored, Scotland have a weak attack, and STILL struggle to score tries. Points against, Scotland have a defense like a sieve. And finally Wins... Scotland don't and can't win games.

Andy Robinson is a good coach. The problem is that he just hasn't got the quality of players, particularly in the backs to work with. Anyone including even the great Graham Henry would struggle if they coached Scotland.

That is nonsense. Scotland have some very good players. They just aren't being utilised. A year ago I'd have agreed with you but after the last two performances he has to go

The players are there for him gboycott, AR is simply not picking them.

I always thought that he would turn this around but i just cant see it anymore. For three years i have been saying that Scotland have the players but simply lack a good attack coach but that it would click eventually under AR. Its been the same this year, i have been waiting for Scotland to click and i am afraid that it would be the same if he was there next year.

As an Irishman its very frustrating to watch this Scotland team in such dissaray, i cant imagine how it would be to be a Scottish fan.

Time to be a man of his words and walk away.

gboycottnut wrote:Andy Robinson is a good coach. The problem is that he just hasn't got the quality of players, particularly in the backs to work with. Anyone including even the great Graham Henry would struggle if they coached Scotland.

No he's a poor coach, he clung onto Clive Woodwards coat tails with England then got the job by default, led England to one of their worst runs in history before getting sacked. Went to work for Edinburgh because only they would employ him, he did ok at Rabo Direct level finishing near the top, but not actually winning anything, then got the Scotland job over Sean Lineen.

As a Head coach this guy took over a Bath side who were dominant in England along side Leicester and took them from a top 2 team to a mid table side.

Robinson is not a good coach, if you want the record of a brilliant coach look at Warren Gatland.

After the 6N campaign, I can't very well want Ireland to find a new coach and then say Scotland should stick with Robinson.

The future is something nobody knows anything about (despite some wise souls on 606 almost suggesting they manage it!) But no, you can't predict the future and both Robinson and Kidney might turn around the fate of their respective sides next year...it's possible. But why delay change for another year - hoping and praying that this time, it'll work?

Life is too short methinks. A new coach might be a disaster - but last is already a disaster enough for proud Scottish players. Scottish rugby can only rise.

Mad for,
nice to see an outsider taking a look pal. Few wee points though :-

Jacobsen - gash and unfit -past it too-bin him
Hamilton - thickoid penalty magnet - bin him
Evans- how long do we wait for creation + greedy wee besterd ?
Lamont- idiot- best laugh for 'Have It" v Ireland
De Luca - double feckin idiot- bin too -cost the game Saturday
Cusiter- badly, really badly out of form
Laidlaw is not a 10 but a very good SH
Overall abysmal and get Robinson TF now. Could someone take out Townsend too before he destroys the Warriors ?

Need promoted now as first choice Gilchrist and Tom Ryder (locks), Duncan Weir and harry Leonard (SOs), Mark Bennett (centre ), and how about Colin Gregor at 9?

Bennett being anywhere near the 1st squad would be beyond ridiculous.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Mad for,
nice to see an outsider taking a look pal. Few wee points though :-

Jacobsen - gash and unfit -past it too-bin him
Hamilton - thickoid penalty magnet - bin him
Evans- how long do we wait for creation + greedy wee besterd ?
Lamont- idiot- best laugh for 'Have It" v Ireland
De Luca - double feckin idiot- bin too -cost the game Saturday
Cusiter- badly, really badly out of form
Laidlaw is not a 10 but a very good SH
Overall abysmal and get Robinson TF now. Could someone take out Townsend too before he destroys the Warriors ?

Need promoted now as first choice Gilchrist and Tom Ryder (locks), Duncan Weir and harry Leonard (SOs), Mark Bennett (centre ), and how about Colin Gregor at 9?

thanks for the feedback.
Jacobsen - I admit I don't see much in him, but don't know enough about the alternatives. Who are they?
Hamilton - produced a great display against England, faded thereafter, but still a good player IMO.
Evans - again, I think he's worth persevering with.
Lamont, De Luca and Cusiter - agree 100%. I used to rate De Luca (on the back of his Edimburgh performances) but he's probably run out of chances now after being an idiot once too often.
Very interesting point about Laidlaw at 9, I was just thinking that the other day. Excellent pass and an eye for a gap, plus his defense would be less exposed from there. Am I right in thinking he's played most of his rugby there?

Yes mate he (Laidlaw) really is a SH - Blair is also back to form (hence Laidlaw shoehorned into 10 when it really should have been Duncan Weir)and was a ray of light amongst the dross on Saturday (Welsh, Hogg and Denton get passes too unlike the rest of the backs KWIM!). Still think Colin Gregor could do a job but not with the Robinson/Townsend combo. Still think Hamilton is a total rugby thicko who we cannot afford -along with de Luca !

funnyExiledScot wrote:Bennett being anywhere near the 1st squad would be beyond ridiculous.

Why, fES? Cos he hasn't been playing regularly for Clermont first team?! Or Hasn't shown enough 'form'? As I see it, we've got two choices for this summer tour - either try to secure all wins to give us a remote top 8 seeding chance with a view to RWC pooling (v unlikely after these last 2 losses, I think we'd have to defet NZ for the first time ever in the autumn), or just say feic it and look to build towards that RWC accepting that we will be in the 3rd pot of seeds. Bennett is the real deal, he and Leonard stood out for the U20s vs Italy, much like Weir did at the JWC last summer - why do you think there was such a fuss when he signed for Clermont last summer? Trust me, if he'd been with the Warriors, he'd have Rabo and Heino experience by now - hmm, playing outside Graeme Morrison or playing next to Fofana?!?! Tough choice

He stood out for the U20s??? Let's make him captain.

How many games has he played for the Clermont 1st XV? How many games of top flight professional rugby (non age grade) has he actually played?

Weir deserves to be picked because of his Glasgow form, similarly Hogg. I don't think we should be promoting players to the 1st XV directly from the U20s. Perhaps we should test them at club level somewhere first?

I can understand his reasons for preferring the Clermont kindergarden side to playing in the Rabo 12. Long-term it could well make him a better player, but short term I don't think it's done him any favours. Look at Stuart Hogg, had he moved to play rugby in France with academy players he would not have been capped.

What we can offer talent in Scotland is exposure to HC and Rabo 12 rugby early, earlier than any other country I can think of. It's why I think Bennett made the wrong call. I know he's been injured, but playing in the Clermont reserves isn't going to fast track him.

Look, I'd be willing to gamble at this stage in the cycle, clearly you wouldn't. Let's leave it at that

You've seen the backline I'd suggest for the summer (see below as posted on a prior thread), I think there's plenty enough gambling in that selection, and plenty new faces.

9.Blair 10.Weir 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Ansbro 14.Jones 15.Hogg

20.Laidlaw 21.S Lamont 22.J Thompson

The key for me this summer is to bed down Duncan Weir and Matt Scott as a 10/12 combination. Of the options at 13 I think Ansbro has the experience and the physicality to provide balance. Hopefully he can get fit and back into the reckoning at Irish.

Wouldn't disagree with that, but I'd have Bennett in the touring party too

And please no Cuthbert from Bath - he is seriously gash !

If he as a contract untill 2015 RWC, then either let him stay atleast untill next year and see if he improves the Scottish performance, and if he does then make a decision.

I think to sack him now will be a typical knee jerk reaction.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote: And please no Cuthbert from Bath - he is seriously gash !

Cuthbert would be nowhere near my touring party.

Hogg, Thompson, Rory Lamont and Tom Brown. All better options at 15.

majesticimperialman wrote:If he as a contract untill 2015 RWC, then either let him stay atleast untill next year and see if he improves the Scottish performance, and if he does then make a decision.

I think to sack him now will be a typical knee jerk reaction.

Knee jerk suggests it's a sudden reaction. Most fans wanted rid of him after the WC. The more moderate brigade, and I include myself in that, had had enough after the inept selections during this 6 Nations. That isn't knee-jerk.

majesticimperialman wrote:If he as a contract untill 2015 RWC, then either let him stay atleast untill next year and see if he improves the Scottish performance, and if he does then make a decision.

I think to sack him now will be a typical knee jerk reaction.

12th isn't anything like a reflexive knee jerk - 12th is 12th. And it's a bad reflection on players who play alongside and against players who play in sides ranked 4th and 5th on a regular basis. 12th I'm afraid is a sackable offence in the NH's top rung of Nations.

The important thing is to get the summer tour squad right. Drop a fair few of the current squad (De Luca, Murray, Jacobsen, Cusiter etc) to give others a chance, it will give those dropped a wake up call, if they manage to get back into the squad in the future then fair enough but at least others will get a chance to show they are probably better than the present choices.
Perhaps we need to reform the traditional selection commitee to remove this obvious weakness from Robinson. We could have the likes of John Jeffrey, John Rutherford, Iain Milne etc choosing the squad, they would really know what to look for. Therefore you would just present the coach with the squad and say get on with it.

iIts not a knee jerk reaction. \He has failed consistently over 3 years as we slde down the rankings and in competitive games in 3 years have beaten italy, Ireland , romania and Georgia once each.

Judge me on results he said - well we have and you were found wanting.

he failed with Engladn and he has failed with Scotland

Pretty depressing, but we are stuck with him, he won't leave. If leaving was what he had in mind he would have done it already.

As the campaign is currently being reviewed, I think if he is still in the job come the end of the week, then you're right Radge.

I love that we need to have yet another "review". There's only 5 games to watch. Shouldn't need a week. The writing has been on the wall for ages, and certainly throughout the tournament.

The best news at the moment is that England look like they're going to ignore Mallett. We would be daft not to try to capitalise on that.

Monday's Daily Express says that he could make a return to Bath :O.

http://www.express.co.uk/rugbyunion/view/308881/Six-Nations-2012-Italy-13-Scotland-6.

the really good question would be if you reversed it, ie "what has Robinson done to merit keeping his post?". Admittedly it doesn't work like that really, but is there really an answer to the above (other than the obvious "nothing")? I'm not sure...