How did Ireland collapse like that?

First topic message reminder :

This is not an attack. Nor a wum. I have the deepest respect for Irish rugby with its giant strides over the last ten years.

Let me put it into context.
This has been a magnificent season so far on the HEC front for Ireland. But nationally, they have performed entirely inversely in relationship to the almost identically resourced Welsh.

Ok, the scrum was well-beaten, but in the second half why did disinterest spread through out the whole of the rest of the side from 6 to 15?

They just stopped playing and if England had had any sort of offensive game plan, the score could have been truly embarrassming.

Why is this?

Over the years, we have all become used to doggedness and resolve of Irish sides at Provincial level with all their great performances like Leinster/Saints last year, Munster/Saints earlier in the season and Ulster/Leicester earlier this year.

Is it that four games in four weeks is too much?
Do the players not have the same passion for the green as they have for their Provinces?
Was the talisman BOD needed that much.

I was disappointed for Ireland, but the Irish must still be in shock.

Sorry, not my intent. I was trying to emphasise it was out there for all to see. In a way, the question is why didn't England use it earlier and more often?

And I honestly think you underestimate the weather. It was awful. Honest. Look at the Croft juggle. I swear he was laughing himself...!

I am staying out of the Kidney issue. I am replying to the OP.

Cowshot wrote:
I am staying out of the Kidney issue. I am replying to the OP.

That's more than fair enough, Cowshot. But we Irish unfortunately can't ignore him, even for the terrible weather. We see talented players being wasted to a terrible set-up and we're concerned. The players have shown what they can do without any real plan (most points, most tries this year) but that only tells many of us how good it could be if they had something cohesive in coaching terms to sink their teeth into. A boat without a rudder is Ireland right now.

SecretFly wrote:

Cowshot wrote:
I am staying out of the Kidney issue. I am replying to the OP.

That's more than fair enough, Cowshot. But we Irish unfortunately can't ignore him, even for the terrible weather. We see talented players being wasted to a terrible set-up and we're concerned. The players have shown what they can do without any real plan (most points, most tries this year) but that only tells many of us how good it could be if they had something cohesive in coaching terms to sink their teeth into. A boat without a rudder is Ireland right now.

Agh, look, if you haven't got props you've got trouble.

Whose fault is it you hven't got props?

Cowshot wrote:
Agh, look, if you haven't got props you've got trouble.

Whose fault is it you hven't got props?

IRFU. Not their problem that we only won two games this year though... or the prop's.

I'm not smiling. I'm thinking about what the ABs are going to do to you. And Italy, now they've seen...

Rubbish it's not their problem.

Isn't development of players for the national team a fundamental duty of the national board?

Got no props???? Ouch.

Cowshot you're right about this match. The English scrum was great. Our tighthead got injured and a loosehead took his place. The wet conditions resulted in a game with lots of scrums. It all added up to the Irish getting a mullering in the scrum. 27 of England's points came directly from scrums.

But my post isn't about this one scrummaging disaster. My post is about 3 years of incoherent performances, poor support play, inept tactics, a fearful mindset based on stopping the other team, and generally a gameplan that is unsuited to the players at Ireland's disposal. Even when Ross has put in good shifts in the scrum.

Cowshot wrote:I'm not smiling. I'm thinking about what the ABs are going to do to you. And Italy, now they've seen...

Rubbish it's not their problem.

Isn't development of players for the national team a fundamental duty of the national board?

Got no props???? Ouch.

Don't worry about us - just enjoy the car-crash when it happens, as I'm sure many of our NH friends will. We might fall further into gloom but nope, we won't be shivering at the thought of Italy anytime soon. The props issue didn't lose us our game to Wales or give us the 'loss'/draw with France. A boatload of props won't get this Irish side moving if moving isn't the gameplan.

But my post isn't about this one scrummaging disaster. My post is about 3 years of incoherent performances, poor support play, inept tactics, a fearful mindset based on stopping the other team, and generally a gameplan that is unsuited to the players at Ireland's disposal. Even when Ross has put in good shifts in the scrum.

Sounds like a description of England post 2003 to me. Suggest revolution and the hanging of the board.

Oh, and I'm not bloody gloating. At the same time as it gave me great pleasure to see the skill of our scrum, there was a definite drop of the heart and an oh god, Ireland.