"Wales can only get better".....Cuthbert...?

Gethin Jenkins (30), Adam Jones (31) , Matthew Rees (32) Mike Phillips (30)

These 4 players play in key positions and are once in a generation players.

There is a lot of justified optimism around Wales at the moment and a lot of the side are young and very good with plenty of improvement to come but as we saw in the St Patrick's Day game at Twickenham that without certain fundamentals in place it doesn't really matter who your wingers are.

We've got Gill and Rhodri Jones coming through for Jenkins.
We've got Owens, Hibbard and Byrne for Rees.
We've got Mitchell for Adam, which probably isn't enough cover, need some more development there,but there's talk of a good up and coming lad at the O's.

And at SH - we've got Lloyd Williams, Rhys Webb, Tavis Knoyle for the immediate future, and the likes of Gareth Davies and Rhodri Williams hovering in the background too.

Reckon we'll be okay, but TH is the main concern.

Sort out your lineout and Wales can become a really dangerous side,that's your glaring weakness as far as I can see.
I wouldn't be too worried about the age of your frontrowers as they tend to last longer than the players who rely more on pace.

I agree, apart from at tighthead, Wales are looking very good for the future, mind you, props only start to get into their prime in their thirties, just look at Funbus, Mas, Roncero etc. I can see a good few years yet for Jenkins and Adam!!

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Sort out your lineout and Wales can become a really dangerous side,that's your glaring weakness as far as I can see.
I wouldn't be too worried about the age of your frontrowers as they tend to last longer than the players who rely more on pace.

Add 3 years and a lot of mileage (including Lions tour) on to the abovenamed player ages for the next RWC.

Factor in the increasing frequency of injuries to players of all positions on the wrong side of 30.

Consider that Wales like to play an open expansive style and have a think about how these 4 fill fit that plan in 3 years time.

Consider that while you have up and coming cover. The abovenamed players are in fact once in a generation players.

Think on it Mr Cuthbert and co.

Actually I think 10 is a bit of a worrying position.

We saw in the rwc, that when we didn't have Rhys playing, our backline stuttered again with both Hook and Stevo.

Need to hope the likes of Biggar and Tovey really kick on next season so we have an adequate back up.

Triangulation - did you not see my post with the list of players we have coming through in those positions??

Re tighthead:

Adam Jones rates Joe Rees the young tighthead at the Ospreys. Looks very good to me too.

There is also Aaron Jarvis, Simon Gardiner and Scott Andrew all tying to get a look in behind Craig Mitchell who has already deputised for Adam Jones in last years Six Nations.

The situation is a bit like the previous one we had with the thought that no one could replace Martyn's Williams, now we have some great open side option in Warburton and Tuperic.

Same with tighthead, there are six or seven lads all dreaming of taking over from Adam Jones, whoever pushes hardest for the spot will get it.

With that amount of competition for one place in the team, these lads will be trying very hard to get that spot.

Priestland is definitely suffering from a loss of confidence. Having him at full form and confidence is a must if you want to break into the Top3 and turn over the big guns down south.

I think he is suffering from some sort of delayed dawning that he is running the show now and the way in which Wales play is on his shoulders. Personally I feel he is good enough to thrive in his position and good enough to become world class in the years ahead.

Well done Wales, Cuthbert is right - you can get better.

Priestland was very good vs France, Ireland and Italy. Apparently carrying an injury and needs an op.

Will be good to see how Tovey etc can man up and challenge for his shirt.

If we can find a player that can prop like Adam and also scrummage like Gethin then we will have it made

We have already unearthed replacements for them, they just need game time. Gatland will persist with Jenkins, Jones, etc up until the 2015 World Cup warm-up games where he will introduce some new players, perhaps some guys you are yet to hear of .

I agree that at the moment our system is working well. Academies are producing sourcing and coaching young talent, the regions take over and if that player impresses he makes the welsh squad.

Great also to hear how all the welsh first team coaches are contracted to coach the youth levels as well as senior now.

The only change I want to see is a fitness charter drawn up by Gatland and the WRU. That regional and academy players have to reach certain targets. So that fitness can be monitored better than it is.

This has been called for by physios and conditioning coaches for years, Gatland et al are fans, regional guys like Johnson, holly were not.

Posted this on another thread but its relevant for this really.....

"Midfield: JD2 is a second pivot at 13. We've seen less of Roberts this 6ns because he hasnt just been used as a battering ram, North and Cuthbert coming inside have allowed him to push out wider. We also have Scott Williams/Beck coming through the centres who are both different types of players, and Stoddart to come back for wing/FB cover.

We need a back-up flyhalf, Priestland has been shaky, but I thought his kicking against France was generally good, some loose kicks admittedly but France didnt look like doing much with it. Against Australia, I dont see us kicking long and in-field unless theres space behind the back 3, careless kicks WILL cost us out there. Tovey at the blues should be interesting.

Phillips ties in the fringe defenders for that split second extra to allow Priestland to play flat. I'd like to see Webb kick on though his all-round game has been nice to watch at the ospreys. So far, no-one has been able to take Phillips jersey from him though.....

Lineout needs improving, although, missing our 2 first-choice locks a year or 2 ago would've seen us taken apart in the pack, we now have 4 players capable of starting tests and Ryan Jones who can play lock if needed. The lineout was good against the French, varied and provided quick ball into midfield off first phase, i'd like to see that sort of ball used smarter.

Gill looks ready to replace Jenkins, Bevington not that far behind Gill either. Mithcell to start sharing gametime with Adam Jones in the next few years, Gardiner looked good last season before his injury and Rees (i think) at the ospreys looks a prospect.

Backrow is looking very very strong. The starters have excelled, would like to see more of Faletau finding space to run. Ryan can cover 6 and 8 equally well. Shingler was impressive on his debut at openside and Tiperic slotted in very, very well. Lewis Evans at the dragons has potential aswell.

I'm happy with Wales current state to be fair. Plan B is where we're falling down, but I put that down to coaches analysing Wales from the world cup. We've started to see the gameplan tweaked in spurts and fits, hopefully that'll continue and the attack will evolve as we go.

Not much to change, little mistakes need to be eradicated, Wales have a habit of making errors and relieving the pressure on the opposition when they should be piling it on."

Agree on the fitness/regional coaching issues though. The difference between some players performances at the 2 different levels were unrecognisable.

Boys I'm not sure why theres a 'fitness' issue at age grade level. There is a minimum set to represent Wales, albeit not a particularly high one and it is based around the one multi stage anaerobic recovery test, but you don't want the U16's getting more obsessed with strength and stamina than they already are!

Most age grade players neglect basic skills for the quick fix of conditioning, there is no reason to condition the boys to a standard where they have to compete with the likes of England and NZ, of which they are rediculously over trained. The age grade doesn not hinge on victories, it hinges on the right type of development at the optimal level of maturity. When the boys reach U20 level I can see why the competitive nature is there, but even then, the tight 5 probably have 5 years plus until they start to make waves for their club, let alone country.

Take Jack Dixon for example at the Dragons, made a few appearances and all of a sudden the hype has surrounded him and his S+C programme has become rediculous for a 17yr old child!

I know children as young as 11/12 who are undergoing their parents stupid ideals of fitness programmes to get an edge, I can tell you categorically that selection doesn't work like that when I'm involved, and getting a physical edge 3 years before PHV means very little.

Sorry for the rant but it's an issue that drives me loopy!!!!!

Sorry Bluesman, I shouldda clarified I was aiming my remark at the full regional-level fitness/coaching.

The coaching in particular is nowhere near good enough (barring the Scarlets with Nige in charge).

Agree'd with everything you've said.

I see your point now. The problem with coaching/conditioning the regional firsts is that the SH players in general don't want to put their bodies on the line in a fartlek session, or empty their stomachs during Tabata!

I have witnessed a massive amount of regional first conditioning sessions and there are a large number of players who just go through the motions, I won't mention any names, but they tend to be old school players near or around their early 30's who know they arent going to be able to improve at this stage so just don't try.

TBH I've even noticed some academy boys who just don't seem to have that metal, there are a few names I would love to mention who I think are definately going to play regional/international level but can't.

I will say I think there may be a superstar TH and possibly superstar 7 at the Dragons academy, but obviously unless they keep it up it's all for nothing.

I better leave it there as I am avoiding finishing my thesis on the subject. It has to be in tomorrow and I seem a fair way off

I don't think Wales played particularly well this tournament so Cuthbert is just stating the obvious. Those that don't like it, ...well......! their responses are also pretty obvious Av It

that does make perfect sense, and its sort of understandable for the SH 'up here for a nice payday' players who have a season or 2 left.

However, we've seen what welsh players at the height of their fitness can do in the world cup. Then they come back to the regions and fall off tackles that some of theit is motivation....

I just dont get why the young welsh players coming through wouldnt want to have any possible edge over their opposition. The welsh squad mentality seems to have changed with Warbs who is impeccable when it comes to prep and fitness. That was the start, I'd like to see that attitude spread through to the regions. Minimum fitness levels that are raised regularly in line with the performances of the squad as a whole, or even as units, front row, lock, backs etc. Maybe I'm looking at it too simply, and there are of course barriers that will be put in place but the regions do really need to buy into upping the fitness levels to contest, unless they're going to get some top-quality coaches in.

Quality of coaching remains another issue at the blues and ospreys, I like Darren Edwards and hope that the Dragons arent stripped too bare. The youngsters sound like promising news mind!

Good rant mate and your sentiments are correct but an established good charter that states who should be doing what and what standard is very important for both players and the regions/WRU.

It is amazing how much higher the performance/intensity was when fitness was improved for Wales and I have heard there were grumblings from the WRU/Gats over the fitness of some Blues/Ospreys players (though I imagine the same problems were with some of the Scarlets lot as well).

But I'm not sure if the current regime - of training the players to breaking point then using crygenics to allow them to recover before doing it again and again before throwing them into international games, and then starting it again without a rest - is sustainable as the players have been going non-stop since June 11, Warbs is already looking to be out until June and says his body's been creaking all season. A Jones, AWJ, Charteris & Geth have all been out for significant periods this year as well.

If we keep pushing the players to higher and higher fitness levels, our performances will go up but surely at some point things are going to break.

Smirnoff you make a good point, but as techniques and science improves the body is stressed less.

This ice recovery technique is all well and good but the improved fitness levels werent anywhere near the amount the welsh camp have hyped it as, and I wont go into the science but it was a WC theory only. We shouldnt be seeing teams going there regularly.

Demands on the body is a great point, we all saw what happened to Fabrice Muamba on the weekend, in general rugby players cardio respiratory system doesn't get as stressed as footballers, but other vital organs get much more stressed.

I can tell you that what most top class internationals do totheir bodies is technically abuse, Ive seen some stupid theories attempted. 1 of my favs are in the off season players going on holiday to altitude, training with proffesional trainers, then before returning taking pints of blood from their system for storage, then injecting that blood back inot themselves prior to competition.

Theoretically it is sound, but practically it is just asking for trouble!

Comfort

generally when players join their int team they are conditioned to a standard not sustainable all season long, so when they return, a recovery, taper period is needed. I would allow for some drop in motivation, as like conditioning levels it is not sustainable, and as for falling off tackles, with lesser players around you in less drilled systems by lesser coaches of course your not going to look as good.

My theory is that if the top int level is about the smallest margins it will all depend on which structure develops the most skilled players under pressure. The NZ system is so much more efficient than the NH chronological age system, but I would impliment a totally different system again, can't talk too much about it as trying to sell it to governing bodies at present, but the theory regarding performance development is basically the opposite of whats implimented.

RubyGuby wrote:I don't think Wales played particularly well this tournament so Cuthbert is just stating the obvious. Those that don't like it, ...well......! their responses are also pretty obvious Av It

I understand this as an England supporter for 2 reasons. 1. When we used to be good circa 2001-2003 we could win games playing badly - one of many marks of a good team AND 2. because while in this 6N we played above all expectations (very very very low) having had to introduce ourselves to each other and the coaches at training but still we were average all 6N.....and still beat everyone apart from Wales who we we led for most of the match and came reasonably close to beating.

I cannot wait until were playing at 50-60% of our capability and when we get to 80-90% we might destroy a few sides.

Triang

But arguably England played at 110% of their capability this season! They were an unknown quantity and noone knew what to expect, next season the laptops will have caught up with them and maybe, just maybe they will struggle a little more.
If England go on to win another 4 games next year I will be much more surprised and impressed than what they acheived this year.

Thats why I think Wales were so impressive, 2nd season everyone knew what to expect, and gave their all to stop it, but just couldn't.

If we beat France away next year it's another Slam

thebluesmancometh wrote:Triang

But arguably England played at 110% of their capability this season! They were an unknown quantity and noone knew what to expect, next season the laptops will have caught up with them and maybe, just maybe they will struggle a little more.
If England go on to win another 4 games next year I will be much more surprised and impressed than what they acheived this year.

Thats why I think Wales were so impressive, 2nd season everyone knew what to expect, and gave their all to stop it, but just couldn't.

There is something in second season syndrome but in this passage you have elevated it's significance far beyond the reality of the situation. If your argument were true - it would be in the interests of each nation to field a new XV every single year. This is just crazy. Of course a young side will improve from season 1 together and go through the gears.

RWC winning sides have i think always had 40-50 caps per man.

The laptops arent THAT good and every coach and his side should be one step ahead of the laptop.

Re Wales they became quite predictable by the end of the 6N (with or without a laptop and any particular detailed analysis) but as you say no one was able to stop them.

If Wales continue to play as they did v France they will lose 3-0 to Australia. I dont need a laptop to tell you that.

I personally find it quite amusing that you call our front row "once in a generation" yet threw a tantrum when it was pointed out they would have the edge against the english front row who are not. You ignore the many posts pointing out the strength in depth to cover the positions mentioned. Is this to generate discussion or just more bitterness, methinks the latter.

"If Wales continue to play as they did v France they will lose 3-0 to Australia. I dont need a laptop to tell you that. "

If If If If - And if Australia play like they did against Ireleand they will get murdered -

Sometimes you have to just do what's needed to win a game - Wales did it with relative ease against France -

Let's hope Phillips is a "once in a generation" scrum half, we can't have another one that bad again.

TycroesOsprey wrote:I personally find it quite amusing that you call our front row "once in a generation" yet threw a tantrum when it was pointed out they would have the edge against the english front row who are not. You ignore the many posts pointing out the strength in depth to cover the positions mentioned. Is this to generate discussion or just more bitterness, methinks the latter.

Two points Tycroes, the first of which i have told you already. Do please try to pay attention...

1. It was NOT the fact that you said you would have an edge that was annoying. I respect your front row. It was your statement that our front row was "average/ordinary" that was annoying. You have a brilliant front row and we have a very good one who did come off second best against yours. That does not make them average and if you are in any doubt about that their performances across the 6N should leave you a little embarrassed at your comment.

2. There is no "tantrum" nor is there bitterness but i just felt your unwarranted take on our front row should not be left unchallenged.

Englands front row is very close to the welsh, not much in it at all IMO

It was only France and Wales that didn't lose a scrum this Six nations I believe...

Triang

First I would like to reply to your post aimed at my comment. You are right, teams are constantly evolving and should stay one step ahead of the laptops, and laptops should not play such a large part in international rugby, however I am of the opinion they do. Italy had clearly done their homework on Wales, and despite never being in the game emulated Englands defencive tactics because it proved succesfull.
The likes of Jamie Roberts and Mike Phillips who do jobs, rather than being particularly gifted can be nullified with research and knowing what they want to do. How many linebreaks did Phillips make this tourny? How many Roberts crash balls resulted in line breaks? However wqhere the laptops can't help is with individual brilliance... The Smash over the opp 13 and out the back door flick, the rip off a monster of a 2nd row and grubber chase, or the step off your right wing to leave 3 on the floor.

How many times in int rugby does a pass to the floor unlock defences, a charge down decide the game, or a ricochet create a score. The laptops have virtually nullified tactical play, and luck is playing more of a part.

For me and for Gatland and to a degree MJ statistics and laptops are everything, quantify as much as possible, take no risks and be in it to win it last 10.

You may not like it but thats the game these days.

Sorry rant over

RE the front row and scrum, they are 2 differing entities.
The scrum is only about a 1/4 of what is required of a front row these days, of course a minimum level of ability has to be attained otherwise we get mismatchs such as England Ireland, but the 8 man unit has to contribute or it will fail.

It is safe to say the English scrum was inferior to the welsh, and IMO would be if they were to meet again anytime soon, although comparing Corbs and Cole to Jenkins and Jones is unfair. The welsh pair are far more experienced, have learnt their trade by playing and at times being demolished by the best in the world. The 2 English boys are in a much earlier stage of development, and probably are more compareable to the likes of Paul James and Mitchell, who they are IMO better than.

So for me;

Wales scrum > England scrum

Wales 1st choice props > Englands

England young props > Wales young props.

Until they meet again!!!!

Oh and regarding once in a generation players...

So was shane, and Martyn williams, and look how we missed them

Triangulation wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:I personally find it quite amusing that you call our front row "once in a generation" yet threw a tantrum when it was pointed out they would have the edge against the english front row who are not. You ignore the many posts pointing out the strength in depth to cover the positions mentioned. Is this to generate discussion or just more bitterness, methinks the latter.

Two points Tycroes, the first of which i have told you already. Do please try to pay attention...

1. It was NOT the fact that you said you would have an edge that was annoying. I respect your front row. It was your statement that our front row was "average/ordinary" that was annoying. You have a brilliant front row and we have a very good one who did come off second best against yours. That does not make them average and if you are in any doubt about that their performances across the 6N should leave you a little embarrassed at your comment.

2. There is no "tantrum" nor is there bitterness but i just felt your unwarranted take on our front row should not be left unchallenged.

1. England were dominated by Wales as I predicted. England lost as many scrums agains the head in the tournament as the Irish so I would argue that their tournament stats are worse than average they are at the bottom of the heap there.

2. You have created two threads now directly attacking my opinion and naming me in the header despite the welsh dominance at Twickenham and the English scrum stats throughout the tournament. The last thread created only a week ago 4 weeks after teh English match where my comments were vindicated by the result on the ground. You were wrong when you criticised my opinion that wales would have the edge and your ridiculously wrong about the English scrums performance during the tournament. You lost as many as the Irish, your much vaunted scrum are bottom of the scrum stats.

And now you complain that a welsh player says wales are only going to get better. and that wales will lose three nil to Australia if they play as they did againsgt the french? if not bitterness its delusion.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:I personally find it quite amusing that you call our front row "once in a generation" yet threw a tantrum when it was pointed out they would have the edge against the english front row who are not. You ignore the many posts pointing out the strength in depth to cover the positions mentioned. Is this to generate discussion or just more bitterness, methinks the latter.

Two points Tycroes, the first of which i have told you already. Do please try to pay attention...

1. It was NOT the fact that you said you would have an edge that was annoying. I respect your front row. It was your statement that our front row was "average/ordinary" that was annoying. You have a brilliant front row and we have a very good one who did come off second best against yours. That does not make them average and if you are in any doubt about that their performances across the 6N should leave you a little embarrassed at your comment.

2. There is no "tantrum" nor is there bitterness but i just felt your unwarranted take on our front row should not be left unchallenged.

1. England were dominated by Wales as I predicted. England lost as many scrums agains the head in the tournament as the Irish so I would argue that their tournament stats are worse than average they are at the bottom of the heap there.

2. You have created two threads now directly attacking my opinion and naming me in the header despite the welsh dominance at Twickenham and the English scrum stats throughout the tournament. The last thread created only a week ago 4 weeks after teh English match where my comments were vindicated by the result on the ground. You were wrong when you criticised my opinion that wales would have the edge and your ridiculously wrong about the English scrums performance during the tournament. You lost as many as the Irish, your much vaunted scrum are bottom of the scrum stats.

And now you complain that a welsh player says wales are only going to get better. and that wales will lose three nil to Australia if they play as they did againsgt the french? if not bitterness its delusion.

Preliminary point of order - scrums are a mess at the moment. Stats cannot decisively prove that we have an ordinary or average scrum as you claim and why are you only referencing against the head stats? What of the others - free kicks and penalties etc?

1. You are hanged by your own petard sir if you maintain your claim that our scrum or front row are average or ordinary. I think any sane person reading this now knows, if they didn't before that you do not know what you are talking about.

2. You gleefully claimed post Wales game that the match proved your assertions about us being average and ordinary in the scrum. It did no such thing. It only proved as you say that you had the edge over us in that dept. but i never took issue with your scrum edging ours! Can you not read?

3. I don't "complain" at all. I questioned the assertion. Is there a problem with that? A welsh friend of mine said exactly the same thing the other day. You cannot hope to compete with Australia hoofing the ball all day long. It wont work. I actually think that you will go ok against Australia and think that it could well be 2-1 to Oz or at a push 2-1 to you!

Good grief - pull yourself together!

True stats only tell some of the story. Against Wales you were penalised twice at the scrum but didnt give away any against the head as you conceded penalties instead. Against Italy you were penalised three times and lost the ball against the head twice. Against Scotland penalised twice and lost against the head once. In both cases neither scotland or Italy lost any against the head whilst the italians were pinged twice after castro went off.

1. "Our front row will be our first choice so we should get the edge on what yesterday was a very ordinary England scrummage until castrogiovanni went off. "

That was my exact statement, it has been utterly vindicated by the match between Wales and England. Are you really trying to claim that the scenario outlined in my statement was incorrect? we both know that is exactly what happened. Since I pointed that out before the game and was proven correct then its your ranting that is based on fantasy and delusion. I would suggest comments like "you do not know what you are talking about" are ridiculous given how wrong you habve been proven. Your troll threads only emphasise that. Since the last litte troll thread from you was deleted some of your paticularly bilious posts cant be put here for others to ridicule.

2. Yep the match proved my assertations. My assertations are above can you argue that was not proven? not by anything seen on the pitch you cant. Either against Italy or against Wales.

3 You have created multiple threads attacking me personally and complaining about my opinion.

Im fully together thank you very much I dont deal in insults, I dont troll or wum. However when someone decides to attack me personally and create troll threads to ridicule my opinion I am happily prepared to defend myself and my opinion. I have provided you with facts, statistics, match results all proving my point. You by contrast have ranted, complained, whined and thrown tantrums and insults but have nothing to actually substantiate your argument.

Teams can always get worse or other teams can get better faster.

So while Wales might get better NZ for instance have not had an outstanding tighthead prop or first five for ages. If we did then we might get better and stay ahead of Wales instead of quietly sitting still waiting to be passed by.

If all the teams did something like this then Wales might improve but not win more games.

Just talking logic like.

I totally get what Cuthbert was saying. This is a quality Wales Team and is still a work in progress, so improvement should be expected.

However, Taylorman has a point - it doesn't always work that way. A few injuries, a couple of results go the wrong way and suddenly you're on a downward path.

We've all seen it before.

For example, what if Wales get thrashed by the Aussies (or England by the Boks for that matter) Is that likely to make them better or worse?

Who knows & it could happen, so I think we'd all do well to wait and see before predicting future glories.....................

TycroesOsprey wrote:True stats only tell some of the story. Against Wales you were penalised twice at the scrum but didnt give away any against the head as you conceded penalties instead. Against Italy you were penalised three times and lost the ball against the head twice. Against Scotland penalised twice and lost against the head once. In both cases neither scotland or Italy lost any against the head whilst the italians were pinged twice after castro went off.

1. "Our front row will be our first choice so we should get the edge on what yesterday was a very ordinary England scrummage until castrogiovanni went off. "

That was my exact statement, it has been utterly vindicated by the match between Wales and England. Are you really trying to claim that the scenario outlined in my statement was incorrect? we both know that is exactly what happened. Since I pointed that out before the game and was proven correct then its your ranting that is based on fantasy and delusion. I would suggest comments like "you do not know what you are talking about" are ridiculous given how wrong you habve been proven. Your troll threads only emphasise that. Since the last litte troll thread from you was deleted some of your paticularly bilious posts cant be put here for others to ridicule.

2. Yep the match proved my assertations. My assertations are above can you argue that was not proven? not by anything seen on the pitch you cant. Either against Italy or against Wales.

3 You have created multiple threads attacking me personally and complaining about my opinion.

Im fully together thank you very much I dont deal in insults, I dont troll or wum. However when someone decides to attack me personally and create troll threads to ridicule my opinion I am happily prepared to defend myself and my opinion. I have provided you with facts, statistics, match results all proving my point. You by contrast have ranted, complained, whined and thrown tantrums and insults but have nothing to actually substantiate your argument.

I tell you what TyrcoesOsprey - i give up. You win. You continue to think that our scrum is no good there's a good boy. Good luck against the Aussies and lets bury the scratch pole and saucer of milk for the Lions!

Still patronising Tri? why dont you simply man up and apologise for creating two troll threads attacking me. Admit you were wrong and my statement about the game between England and Wales was proven correct.

Clearly comprehension is beyond you. I have never said your scrum is no good. I said, it was average against the Italians and we would have the edge. The quote is above. You can try and twist and turn as much as you want. The fact remains you started threads that are against the house rules attacking a poster personally and his opinion. When that posters opinion was proven correct did you act like a grown up and apologise? nope you started another troll thread.

So patronise all you want, there is only one person behaving like a child on this issue and its the baby who wont admit he is wrong, the baby who has thrown tantrums and created troll threads. As Ive said before grow up.

rugbydreamer wrote:Actually I think 10 is a bit of a worrying position.

We saw in the rwc, that when we didn't have Rhys playing, our backline stuttered again with both Hook and Stevo.

Need to hope the likes of Biggar and Tovey really kick on next season so we have an adequate back up.

Triangulation - did you not see my post with the list of players we have coming through in those positions??

By the next World Cup I would hope to see Matthew Morgan of the Ospreys challenging for a spot at 10. I also think Tovey will come into his own at The Blues and be the long term answer. (Got nothing but a gut instinct to back this up mind)