Chapter 5 of Chavez Jr's Great Escape......From Martinez

Last week the WBC said negotiations would begin tomorrow for Chavez Jr vs Martinez.

Everybody apart from Chavez's team (maybe not HBO!) recognise Martinez as THE middleweight fighter and as we are aware the WBC have screwed Martinez more than once, firstly to make Chavez a "world champ" and secondly to keep him as one.

Time and time again some pitiful excuses have been found to fall back on promises for them to meet in order to protect Chavez Jr.

I have no confidence that Chavez will grow a pair and fight Martinez, so what reason this time do you see for him not fighting him and how do the WBC go back AGAIN on making the fight happen?

Rumours going around twitter than Martin Murray has signed to fight Chavez Jnr in June.

Probably will fight Martinez, but Chavez Jr will be allowed to weigh in whatever he likes and Sergio will have to weigh in at 150 come fight night. That being said he is still going to knock him out.

Chavez is praying Martinez gets old before he faces him, disgraceful ducking

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Rumours going around twitter than Martin Murray has signed to fight Chavez Jnr in June.

I did hear Murray talk about this on Sky Sports on the weekend! The WBC must give Chavez free reign and just say "now we have to look like we want you to fight Martinez, after all we did steal his title and give it to you. We'll make make noises now and then to appear like we want the fight but basically do what you want"!

Whoever Chavez fights, i'll be fully rooting for them!

There's bigger fights than this not happening so I hold no hope that we will be seeing it any time soon.

Chavez would have been moved up in weight if 168lbs weren't such a strong division.

Someone who follows the modern game closer than me will have to explain this to me but what exactly is the difference between this situation and the situation with Povetkin at heavy. Am not asking to be flippant I am just curious as to why Chavez draws such vitriol, am not saying he does not deserve it, just wondering why it seems in disproportion to say Povetkin who shows comfortably as little inclination to fight either brother as Chavez does Martinez.

This is a genuine enquiry not an attempt on my part to be contrary or smart arse, cheers

Not all that much difference in truth, Jeff, the only notable ones (from where I'm standing, at least) being that Povetkin hasn't mouthed off and shown disrespect to either Klitschko the way Chavez Jr has to Martinez, and also that Povetkin doesn't have the accusation that he's profited right from the start of his career by virtue of having a legendary father. That, coupled with the way in which Arum has the knack for carefully marketing hispanic fighters, is naturally going to lead to some resentment towards Chavez, who has received attention, fight purses and coverage which his talents and achievements certainly don't warrant, I'd imagine.

Plus Wlad and Vitali dont seem that bother about Povetkin.

Martinez has been calling him Chavez like crazy and the silence is deafening.

Freddie Roach is a disgrace in all this as well, he has a pretty big influence in the sport these days and even he won't even give Martinez a 2nd thought. He would rather drain him to fight Manny.

Maybe because Pov didn't take part in an engineered stripping of one of the Bros' titles and call it his own?

Lou dibella, Martinez promoter, said that him and Arun are taking about a September fight after julio fights Murray in June.

He says that bob will take X amount of money into an account and if Chavez doesn't fight him then Sergio will get that money

True Rowley, he is also a champ without any intention of proving himself.

I think Chris sums it up well above. Also because there is little interest in the HW scene, Povetkin gets less attention which is to his own benefit!

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Lou dibella, Martinez promoter, said that him and Arun are taking about a September fight after julio fights Murray in June.

He says that bob will take X amount of money into an account and if Chavez doesn't fight him then Sergio will get that money

Good idea although I wouldn't trust Arum either! Chavez will probably take the hit with the money rather than face Sergio.

Or after the Murray fight, Chavez will possibly claim he's got an injury keeping him out till early 2013 which forces Martinez to fight someone else.

rowley wrote:Someone who follows the modern game closer than me will have to explain this to me but what exactly is the difference between this situation and the situation with Povetkin at heavy. Am not asking to be flippant I am just curious as to why Chavez draws such vitriol, am not saying he does not deserve it, just wondering why it seems in disproportion to say Povetkin who shows comfortably as little inclination to fight either brother as Chavez does Martinez.

This is a genuine enquiry not an attempt on my part to be contrary or smart arse, cheers

There's very little difference in terms of the shamelessness of their ducking. However, I think the reason why people are more upset at Chavez Jr is because he is holding a possible opportunity of Martinez' hostage. Sergio has proved that he's deserving and that he should get a chance at the belt and at a big money fight with someone that holds a huge fan base. This is something he wants, deserves, and is being withheld from him. On the other hand, Povetkin is holding very little that either Klitschko brother wants. He has the joke version of the belt already held by W Klitschko, and he brings the brothers very little in opportunity over what any number of second tier HWs can bring.

Really I think people see it as: Chavez Jr is shamelessly ducking and denying Sergio his shot, whereas Povetkin is shamelessly ducking and denying very little from the Brothers (in fact he's denying himself his shot).

Chavez Jnr draws such vitriol because his daddy was a lot better (although somewhat overrated) and certainly much braver. He's dissimilar to Povetkin because everyone knows Povo to be a fake. Unfortunately, whilst we can all bleat about Chavez not being the main man he is nevertheless, through classification as WBC champion not a fake like the fat Russian. He also stole the belt. Not good.

He's a spoilt little gringo hiding behind his father's shadow, would love to see him taking a pasting and lose.

Chavez (v1) overrated, Super D? A bold statement, would make for a good separate thread!

I know it's a bold statement Chris and I wish I had the time (and inclination) to write an article on the matter.

I think so much of Chavez is about longevity. Got lucky against Meldrick Taylor who really should have boxed his way to a win rather than engaged in a tear up (but Meldrick couldn't resist a tear up now and then and didn't utilise his sublime skills). Also the dodgy draw against Whittaker. Anyway...

Actually Trussman can do a "Was Chavez Snr somewhat overrated" article. He usually regards non-American fighters as overrated so I'm sure he'd jump at the opportunity!

Interesting points, Boon! Mind you, Chavez Sr is a favourite of mine, so maybe I'd be wise to avoid all that jazz.

I think with Chavez/Martinez, Chavez is actually the champion and holds the main WBC belt. With Povetkin/Wlad, its Wlad who holds the superior version of the WBA belt.

So my perspective would be its a case of a legitimate challenger (Martinez) being shafted to accomodate a champion and bargained off with a fake version of the title. With Povetkin I see it more a case of a challenger avoiding the champion. I dont think obligation for Povetkin to fight Wlad is quite as strong as Chavez to fight Martinez because its Chavez that holds the actual world tile whereas Povetkin holds a fake belt.

I dont understand why Martinez, if he is so unhappy with WBC, is still content to wear their Diamond title or whatever it is. In the Q+A with him he bemoaned the number of titles and the politics in boxing but frankly he doesnt seem to be doing much different by holding on to his fake belt. Im not sure if a belt like that is even worth the sanctioning fees. Would also have to wonder if Martinez switched to Top Rank he might have got fights with Chavez/Cotto by now.

rowley wrote:Someone who follows the modern game closer than me will have to explain this to me but what exactly is the difference between this situation and the situation with Povetkin at heavy. Am not asking to be flippant I am just curious as to why Chavez draws such vitriol, am not saying he does not deserve it, just wondering why it seems in disproportion to say Povetkin who shows comfortably as little inclination to fight either brother as Chavez does Martinez.

This is a genuine enquiry not an attempt on my part to be contrary or smart arse, cheers

Chavez has basically stole the belt off Martinez, Povetkins holds a WBA Regular and the KBros dont give a monkey about him, whereas Martinez has called him out non-stop and seeing as Chavez holds what rightfully should be his he's stopping his right to fight for what should be his. Chavez has the WBC in his pocket and they have made shameful excercises to stop him fighting Martinez, the WBA whilst perhaps aren't making the fight they arent stopping Povetkin facing a KBro either but neither are bothered to make the fight, Klitschko holds all the power in the HW Division rightfully, Chavez holds the power unrightfully and holds what Martinez should hold. Povetkin is ducking KBro but it's almost a foregone conclusion as to who would win anyhow, Martinez - Chavez is a good competetive matchup and one all boxing fans would want to see, so it naturally makes more outrage as to the reasons they aren't getting it on.

I'm going to say something controversial here: 99 times out of 100, Chavez will win the fight against Martinez.

Let me explain why:

The fight will be on Arums, Roach, Chavez and WBC's terms - More than likely in Texas where drugs tests will not be conducted and where the officials on more than one occassion have been corrupt. There would be a large Mexican audience who will cheer ANY success Chavez would have which would also influence the scoring.

Martinez wouldn't find it easy to stop a guy who weighs 180lbs, regardless of his punching power and thus the fight would more than likely go to the scorecards where regardless of the actual fight... Martinez would lose.

If anyone sees this differently, then please let me know. But providing Chavez Jr stays on his feet for 12 rounds, he would win - not because of the way he fought, but because my faith in WBC + Arum + Texas Boxing + Roach's PED's would sway the fight.

Cheers for all the responses, am not going to argue because I do not know enough about the subject to do so, however even out of my ignorance cannot help but feel if Chavez had a different promoter he would perhaps not garner such vitriol, suspect his surname does not help because think there is perhaps the impression he is ever so slightly peeing on his fathers legacy with his shenanegans.

Think Martinez wins SP, though your argument is plausible, I see Chavez being as hittable as Macklin was from the ninth and beyond and think he will outclass so much so that you can't even rob him. Chavez to put it simply is slow and has no head movement or defence and suits Martinezs style perfect. Also has rather poor stamina and will have to go looking for Martinez more than he has with anyone allowing Martinez to pick him off even more towards the end.

rowley wrote:Someone who follows the modern game closer than me will have to explain this to me but what exactly is the difference between this situation and the situation with Povetkin at heavy. Am not asking to be flippant I am just curious as to why Chavez draws such vitriol, am not saying he does not deserve it, just wondering why it seems in disproportion to say Povetkin who shows comfortably as little inclination to fight either brother as Chavez does Martinez.

This is a genuine enquiry not an attempt on my part to be contrary or smart arse, cheers

Rowley, I think the easiest way to paint a picture is this:

Chavez Jr is obviously the son of a Mexican legend. Arum made Chavez a lot of money toward the end of his career so Sr is happy to trust Arum with his son. Jose Sulaiman is pretty much family to the Chavez's (He is the Godfather of Chavez Jr. we're talking real close). With the WBC and Arum behind him, he's got free-reign pretty much to get away with what he wishes.

Arum organised his training with Roach as his progress wasn't meeting his expectations, the kid was dropping from 170 to make Welterweight at the time and despite the hype behind his name, was God-awful to watch.

He is now allowed to walk away from a weigh in and come in 15-20lbs heavier than opponents, although not illegal... given his previous positive tests to a product that purposely dehydrates in a quick time (forgot the name) that also rids the body of a substance that some boys call "Growth" (a testosterone inhancing steroid) which of course he has already been tested for!

It points towards a guy who is not eager to EARN titles or respect, but is simply given one to feed the ego of the Chavez family and line the pockets of Arum and the WBC.

Who said hard work pays off? It's all nepotism.

The Martinez-Chavez fight will go like pavlik-Martinez imo. Chavez looked awful vs rubio imo, and although Rubio hits hard Martinez hits harder and is a lot faster. Chavez will struggle to trap him in the corner or on the ropes because of his movement. He was flat footed after 6 and vs an in-and-out fighter like Martinez he will he picked apart.

Macklin has a great chin, but as you see, get hit enough times and it will crack especially vs someone as powerful as sergio

AlexHuckerby wrote:Think Martinez wins SP, though your argument is plausible, I see Chavez being as hittable as Macklin was from the ninth and beyond and think he will outclass so much so that you can't even rob him. Chavez to put it simply is slow and has no head movement or defence and suits Martinezs style perfect. Also has rather poor stamina and will have to go looking for Martinez more than he has with anyone allowing Martinez to pick him off even more towards the end.

Martinez is a different level, no argument there. I can't see Martinez knocking him out though. Yeah the guy will be 3 inches taller and 180lbs (like Pavlik) but he has a pretty good chin and depending on what ever horse-steroids he's been taking before the fight he would more than likely last the 12. All it would take is 3 decent rounds and for him to run for the other 9 whilst jabbing and he would win the fight. WBC and Arum would call it a boxing Masterclass. Roach would be given a pat on the back for a wonder and perfect gameplan and JCC Jr would be a legend killer.

What a nightmare (that I increasingly fear would be reality should they find under any of the conditions I mentioned earlier!).

But if this is panning out the way I see it - Chavez Jr. will be the next Sven Ottke. Stay at home, fight bums and rob decisions off those who genuinely win.

I think if Chavez was likely to beat Martinez 99/100 then the fight (robbery) would probably have gone ahead by now and they wouldnt have gone to the length they have to stop the fight happening.

I cant envisage a scenario whereby Chavez wins if he gets his ears boxed off because the fight would be too high profile for that in my opinion, and Martinez is considered one of the premier fighters in the world.

However I could see a scenario of Chavez getting the benefit of the doubt on the cards if he manages to make the fight close-ish and stay in it.

Would also think Martinez is possibly better value for a stoppage win than it being a long shot.

I don't care if chavez goes in a suit of armour, armed with gauntlets. He is still going to get the stuffing beaten out of him. Sergio will be rearing to go against him and will up his game a few notches.