England's improvement

An emphatic win on the scoreboard against Ireland was just what we England supporters wanted but few saw it coming. Farrell's passing was behind the man for most of the day so the backline didn't get going but wet greasy conditions must have played a part.

The improvement in England since the RWC is tangible and only the most negative commentator would say otherwise. The question is will it last? We have been here before. I remember feeling that improvement was palpable under Johnson until the thrashing in Ireland last 6Ns and the debacle in NZ.

Could it just be the stirring team talk by the Irish when they told us that they were the 'superior side' and that we were 'sore losers'? (who's sore now?) Or could it be something more substantial? My gut feeling is that it is an OK squad but if we were to lose Manu and Barritt then we would struggle and start to look quite ordinary again. I see no depth in the centre positions.

I will not get too excited. Still from where we were at the end of the RWC England have been on an upward curve so we can only hope it continues. The summer tour will put it in to much clearer focus.

I think you need to be realistic, the score line against Ireland suggests a big hiding, but in reality it was one aspect of your game that broke the spirit of the Irish.

I would be careful to read too much into it. Take the win and move on, but to consider anyhting more now would be premature.

Remember one swallow doesn't make a summer.

One swallow doesn't make an Ashton. At least this year. He made quite a few swallows last year.

Hmm, i think Biltong's right.

We played a France that has visibly gone backwards since the WC final, an average Italian side, an unlucky but also mediocre Scottish side (no offence meant lads), an Irish side without their 2 talismans and an awful sub TH. In fact the only side that looked to have improved since the WC was Wales, and even then i'm not convinced they've kicked on as much as some people believe.

Last year, we beat them all, this year we're second.

Do we think that we played better rugby this year? Maybe, marginally and in patches, but not across the board.

We have found a couple of decent players who seem to have stepped up to this level, particularly Morgan. Our defence looks good, but it did under Johnson. Our counter-rucking and turnovers seem to have improved, as has our general back-row play against more lauded opponents. Our scrum and line-out look good, but again, no real change from the Johnson era. In the backs - Ashton and Foden have gone backwards, and it's hard to see much improvement.

All in all, we've done pretty well with a new coaching setting and a fair few new players blooded. The basics looks pretty decent and the foundations may be a little more solid than under Johnson, particularly in terms of discipline both on and off the pitch. Outside of that, we're pretty much where we were i think.

We have blooded new players and over the course of the 6N have improved - and some of those players are now looking much more the part (e.g. Barritt, Morgan and ofc Farrell). That (and 4 wins and a narrow loss) will do for now.

What I would hope to see in the future is enough wit and wisdom to turn a situation like we had against Wales (in particular am attacking line out when they were a man down) into a win. Wales were deserved winners on the day because they found a way to score the points that mattered when it mattered, and we didnt, everything else was fairly even no matter what the one eyes say.

I think one of the most positive things for England was that they went to the talented youth and they were not found wanting. That, plus the obvious improved attitude and no nonsense approach from Lancaster are big factors. English fans should be quietly optimistic at the progress.

cautious optimism is the order of the day i think,agree with much of what hood says, but would add that 3 of englands games were played in pretty poor conditions which makes it pretty hard for the backs shine in attack whether in form or not.

In regards to the OP I don't think england would struggle too much to find a replacement for Tuilagi at 13. Trinder, Joseph, May and then Daly in a few years are all talented young players (Trinder and Joseph in particular). To me we look light at 12, Turner-Hall unfortunately doesn't look cut out for test rugby, will be interesting to see how 36 gets on at Gloucester, he has the skills and physique to make it. Allen is also in with a shout and runs the defence for Tigers I believe so could be a like for like replacement for Barritt, perhaps not as good in defence but offers more of a kicking and passing game.

Hard to judge how far England have come but as you say we seem to be at a similar stage of development as we were with MJs england. The main difference though is the level of experience, Mj was still using the old guard and Lancaster has cleared them all out and brought in fresh faces whilst still maintaining a good level of performance. These players will only improve and the attacking game will start to come once they become more familiar (I want the RFU to let Lancaster hire an attacking coach, Kirwan or Wayne Smith my choices).

The main thing i have noticed with this side in terms of tangible improvement is the ruck. How many times did we come off second best to other sides under MJ? Whilst we are not blowing sides away in this area we are more than holding our own and kept excellent backrows like the Welsh, Irish and French reasonably quiet.

I think England did improve in this 6ns game after game. We did well with a interim coach and a squad new players (international) players that is.

England now need to settle this dispute on who the next coach will be, Lancaster, Mallet, or whoever else is in the mix.

England now have to move on and look forward to the summer/ AI tours, i do not think it will be possible for any of the players like Ashton, Foden, Cole etc etc. to have any time off.

We need to put out our best players. We need to get new players blooded in time for the 2015 Rugby World Cup, wee need depth in every posistion in the Rugb World Cup.

We have improved alot since the Rugby World Cup, but wee will need to improve a lot more.

We are still work in progress.

Trying to be fair and put things into perspective a few observations,in2010 under
Martin Johnson.With Toby Flood at10,England performed well but come RWC they reverted.To safety first tactics with Jonny Wilkinson as preferred 10 and
suffered accordingly.
Every England performance by Coach/Player was measured against 2003,every
Lock against MJ,every Loosie against Hill,Back,or Dayglo,every 10 against JW and so on.
Frankly Martin Johnson who had no Coaching experience whatsoever,without the support SCW enjoyed.Had no real hope of a major break thru any more than Robinson or Ashton.
Lancaster has motivated a young inexperienced group of players into a TEAM.
They are mostly young,uncapped or a few with no stars,those they had mostly
have been injured or of form.[Hodegson,Flood,Ashton].
Which is good they have nothing to lose and reputations to build to win 4 out of 5 matches is very promising.
People have been saying Lancaster should`nt be full time coach because he has no International experience.TRUE but unlike Nick Mallett the most likely other contender,
He as the A side Coach and at age group levels knows the players better than
any overseas coach.Also the Aviva/HC set up etc.
With injured players coming back into the reckoning England now have something to work on.Lancaster should be retained,allowed to pick his own Coaches.Have a Manager to deal with the day to day stuff and handle the Media
leaving the Coaches to Coach.
Before getting carried away,things need putting in perspective,4 of the Tier 1 sides have new Coaching set ups.5 are in the rebuilding mode and England will
be measured against there results.
England have this year a 3 test series versus the Boks in SA,and an AI series culminating in a test versus the AllBlacks.
Wins versus them will be a true measure of where we are,the same of course applies to Wales.
When you consider the SH sides have an extended Super Series,a 4Ns,and a 3 match tour mid Super matches.
Come AI`s time those sides may well be shorn of many regular faces due to injuries and running on empty.
BUT such is the depth in SA and NZ[especially] you know they will still be formidable obstacles.Talk of RWC 2015 at the moment is pure wishful thinking
in my opinion 2019 more realistic.BUT no fear in being hopeful is there.?

Nice one guys, it is good to see some realism by all posters.

England and Wales need to back up the 6N performances over the next 12 months. I think Wales for example are playing less exciting rugby than in the RWC but other aspects have improved such as depth in the squad (more luck than judgment due to injuries). I think we all need to be realistic about our tours this summer, the Lions have not got the best record in recent times in the SH so our individual countries will do well to win a single game each. We also will be playing in the SH after a long break after the season so the first game will be hard to win.