The Real Deal - Special K

Afternoon ladies and gents,

Just a qucik topic really in regards to the "Special One" Kell Brook.

Had an easy nights work on Saturday (made it look easy anyway) and drew in a top crowd of around 10,000.

Now, everywhere i go online, there are people slating him and his record and that he simply didnt look THAT good against an over-rated Matthew Hatton.

I personally disagree, and think he has fantastic potential, and even at a relatively young age, can go on to great success by the time he is reaching 27.

My questions are simple. What is the general view of The Special One? Who (if you dont think he is) should he fight to make you think he is, or atleast realise his talents? And how far can he go in the sport?

My answers to these would be that i think he CAN be the Special One, although he is not just yet. I think he should fight a Berto/Ortiz/Jones type of guy, maybe even someone like McCloskey who could make the weight and is very awkward. Would be a decent test. And i think he can go on to be a multi world champ.

I just hope the wheels dont come off when he hits the proper limelight out in the US etc etc

Thoughts guys?

I think the reason Saturdays fight looks alot worse than it is because of two reasons;
1) He made it look so easy, his speed was the key and everyone knew he would out speed Hatton
2)People use the words overrated before Hatton, by doing this you're essantially saying he shouldn't be anywhere near Brook, personally don't think it's fair on either fight to label him over-rated, a good euro level fighter and the second best WW in Britain.

He has the potential to go all the way, but does he have the work rate, he had Hatton hurt a few times on Saturday and didn't go for the kill, against a dangerous opponent like Berto or Ortiz it could spell disaster if he does that.

His next fight needs to be against quality opposition. If he or his promoter say anything about still needing to learn the game then they're spouting prime bull. This should be a title contender match - Mike Jones, Victor Ortiz, Andre Berto. Someone top 2 of each organisation before going for the champion and then moving toward a Pacquaio or Mayweather showdown in a year or so.

Whilst I agree he needs to be up for either a world title or in with one of the genuine contenders next think people have to be a bit more realistic about what Hearn is trying to do with him, when Brook was with Warren he was inactive and had not fought in his home city for nearly 7 years, he was for all intents the invisible man, as such they have been trying to build him a profile and fan base and it would very much appear the attendance on Saturday would suggest they have done a pretty good job.

By doing this when a title shot comes round Brook has enough support to have a chance of it being in the UK, has experience of fighting in front of big audiences and has been active enough to go in to the fight pretty sharp. Agree with the general point it would have been nice to see him step on the gas a little Saturday and really try to force the stoppage but as I have said previously can't be overly critical of him not stopping a guy Alvarez also failed to put away. Personally I rate him and outside of the two who must not be named I would not be worried of pitching him in with anyone at welter.

Brook boxed excellent beat Hatton in a canter.

Like to see Brook fight someone top 10 plenty of time for a world title fight just keep getting experience against world class opposition till the times right.

If Brook takes a shot on the chin then no reason why he can't be world champion, he has the speed and while not a one punch KO artist hits hard and often enough to cause anyone problems.

Brook as done nothing wrong so far in he's career,I fail to see how he can be criticised

He's lavishly gifted to say the least. Have been saying for a long, long time now that he's the most naturally gifted fighter in Britain. I genuinely believe that, outside of Mayweather and Pacquiao, he's the best Welterweight in the world. Put him in with Ortiz, Berto, Jones or Senchenko a year ago and he'd have beaten them, I believe. And since, nothing has made me reconsider that. In fact, I'm more sure of it now than ever.

His next fight simply has to be for a world title. He's beaten gatekeepers, former champions, former title challengers etc. I'm not sure how much he's going to benefit from a few more fights against those types.

I would see things similar to rowley. The likes of Ortiz and Berto have mixed it a higher level but I wouldnt be afraid to put Brook in with them and dont see them as being leagues above him.

I think strangely, in some ways, the Hatton fight will have disappointed Hearns a bit because when you have a prospect like Brook you want to see them tested and be sure they can handle a bit of adversity when things are not going all their way in a fight. I think they hoped Hatton might be able to do this.

What you really dont want is for Brook to be in the ring in the biggest fight of his career and suddenly find himself at sea and not know how to react.

But he looks like he has the skills and ability certainly to mix it at world stage, the only question mark for me would be if he has the mentality or grit when the going gets tough. We wont know until it happens.

Brook looks good but I think his big reputation outweighs the level of opposition hes been in with. I understand the need to learn your trade etc but hes 27 fights in and his stiffest test has been Matthew Hatton or an OAP in Ndou? I could handle that if I didnt keep hearing how hes the best in the division outside the big 2 or he'd easily beat Ortiz or Berto. Up until now he hasn't challenged himself and I don't see why he'd be favorite against the aforementioned 2.

Great potential but until Brook and Matchroom actually want to truly test him then i'll sit on the fence.

They can boast all they want but at present he hasn't fought at world class level and until he does IMO he doesn't deserve the accolades he currently gets.

For a long time they've implied he'll step up but he doesn't, well not enough to satisfy me so ATM i'm still waiting.

I'd be happy if he fought one of the top 10 WW's.

I understand Matchroom's thinking building his profile up; in Sheffield on the night of the fight, people were asking about Kell Brook and there was a buzz about the place. Hearn's definitely put him on the map. I'd stick him in with any of TheRing's top 10 - apart from those two - fortunately for Kell, the majority are based in America, another chance to raise his profile.

I think he needs to push himself to finish fights - he looks the part but as pointed out by many posters hes yet to go through the fire.

i dont think he has any power to trouble any of the top welters.

He hasn't put a foot wrong so I feel uneasy in criticism which I've done. At this moment in time I find it hard to say his the best outside the two glamour boys, because he hasn't done enough IMO yes he beat Hatton comfortably as Alvarez did but both had nothing to worry about coming back at them.

Berto would be a big step up and I'd make Kell underdog, I have a feeling Kell is what we call an on top fighter and I have a worry he may fold if someone puts it up him, no evidence to suggest this by the way just an inkling. He needs to despatch someone a higher level than Hatton to convince me.

Yes he can be special.

Let's be honest, barring manny and floyd, there are no fighters who are a class above. Lots of very good fighters but no real superstars each with there own problems e.g, khans abysmal inside game, berto's leaky defence, Ortiz chin or heart, Bradley's power all of whom are beatable but also talented enough to beat kell

He has a great chance but as everyone's said,he needs to step up. We can't be assuming he beats all these guys when his best opponent to date is Matthew hatton.

Alvarez was criticised for fighting him and he had just turned 20 and yet he comfortably beat him. Kell is 26 (?) and shouldn't be given any exception about how easy he did it as Alvarez wasn't given any

I also think that is style can be quite boring, which won't make him too popular with the Americans. He is accurate and clinical but doesn't take risks and hasn't shown how many gears he has. He also doesn't have the charisma to talk his way into big fights imo

Would make Brook a heavy favourite against Berto, Ortiz and Khan while I couldn't envisage Bradley beating him, he is that good we feel compelled to try and criticise him for things that aren't really there.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Would make Brook a heavy favourite against Brook, Ortiz and Khan while I couldn't envisage Bradley beating him, he is that good we feel compelled to try and criticise him for things that aren't really there.

i'd make Brook a dead cert against Brook, never mind a heavy favourite.

OasisBFC wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Would make Brook a heavy favourite against Brook, Ortiz and Khan while I couldn't envisage Bradley beating him, he is that good we feel compelled to try and criticise him for things that aren't really there.

i'd make Brook a dead cert against Brook, never mind a heavy favourite.

Styles make fights though, and I can't see that being entertaining for the fans.

Although I haven't seen him perform, Mike Jones seems a good option. He has an almost identical record to Kell and has a problem of no real names. Plus the casual fans are a sucker for a 0 v 0 fight.

d260005p wrote:Afternoon ladies and gents,

Just a qucik topic really in regards to the "Special One" Kell Brook.

Had an easy nights work on Saturday (made it look easy anyway) and drew in a top crowd of around 10,000.

Now, everywhere i go online, there are people slating him and his record and that he simply didnt look THAT good against an over-rated Matthew Hatton.

I personally disagree, and think he has fantastic potential, and even at a relatively young age, can go on to great success by the time he is reaching 27.

My questions are simple. What is the general view of The Special One? Who (if you dont think he is) should he fight to make you think he is, or atleast realise his talents? And how far can he go in the sport?

My answers to these would be that i think he CAN be the Special One, although he is not just yet. I think he should fight a Berto/Ortiz/Jones type of guy, maybe even someone like McCloskey who could make the weight and is very awkward. Would be a decent test. And i think he can go on to be a multi world champ.

I just hope the wheels dont come off when he hits the proper limelight out in the US etc etc

Thoughts guys?

Good post, I agree, I think he looks very good and I cant see any weaknesses to far.
I think the only "?" is can he dig deep and be a warrior?, The only reason this has not been answered as no one has been able to come close to testing him like this..

I think McCloskey would be a good fight for him and to watch, it would be a fight where some might think he could stumble, and if he wins it would be a clear sign that he is ready for world level, if not already.

Mathew Hatton might not top world class fighter, but he is decent and he was disposed of easy.

I think with a couple more higher profile fights he would be more than a match for Khan.

tunes666 wrote:

I think with a couple more higher profile fights he would be more than a match for Khan.

Brook seems to get more time than anyone to learn his trade and get ready to step up. Hes been getting ready to step up for a while now.. Khans the same age as him and has had less fights why should Kell need more fights to be ready for him? Khan used to get a really hard time for his level of opposition whereas Brook gets a free pass.

Why would McCloskey be a good fight for Brook? McCloskey was getting outboxed by Khan before the disgraceful stoppage, and only just scrapped home against Bredis Prescott, surely Kells next fight has to be against a top 10 ranked opponent.

Brook needs a real test now. Hatton was decent but he was heavy favourite for a reason. I would love to see him in with Alexander. That would be a good fight. Alexander looked back to his best against Maidana. Maidana was made for him but it was a good performance and he could cause Kell real trouble.

If Matchroom could get Ortiz that would be great for Kell. Ortiz is poor and Kell would box his ears off.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Brook needs a real test now. Hatton was decent but he was heavy favourite for a reason. I would love to see him in with Alexander. That would be a good fight. Alexander looked back to his best against Maidana. Maidana was made for him but it was a good performance and he could cause Kell real trouble.

If Matchroom could get Ortiz that would be great for Kell. Ortiz is poor and Kell would box his ears off.

Ortiz is a massive step up from anything Brooks been in with before. His power alone gives him a decent chance.

paperbag_puncher wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Brook needs a real test now. Hatton was decent but he was heavy favourite for a reason. I would love to see him in with Alexander. That would be a good fight. Alexander looked back to his best against Maidana. Maidana was made for him but it was a good performance and he could cause Kell real trouble.

If Matchroom could get Ortiz that would be great for Kell. Ortiz is poor and Kell would box his ears off.

Ortiz is a massive step up from anything Brooks been in with before. His power alone gives him a decent chance.

What has Ortiz done to be a massive step up? He quit against Maidana, drew with Peterson and looked awful and got a lucky shot against Berto who has beat pretty much no one of note but still managed to floor him. Ortiz has power and not much else. Kell would beat him comfortably inside 6 rounds imo. He could maybe even make him quit.

Would probably have to agree with SRR, on the back of 20+ fights and at 25 years of age if Brook is not ready to be beating the likes of Ortiz it is unlikely he is going to amount to much, Ortiz is far from rubbish but nor is he superman, to be honest if Brook is going to be a star he should be ready for anyone at welter beyond Manny and Floyd by now.

Well who would you rate as Brook's toughest opponent yet? Hatton? NDou? The fact that Ortiz has even been in with the names you've mentioned makes him a massive step up from anything Brooks faced. Not saying Ortiz would win but hes miles better than anyone Brooks fought so far.

I won't get into the Maidana fight but he deserved the nod against Peterson and you're being incredibly harsh about his performance against Berto. He didn't win the fight because of a knockdown alone and most agree he won many people's FOTY.

As for Berto he mightn't have beat alot but the likes of Collazo, Quintana, Urango and Forbes are better than anything Brooks fought. I agree Brook looks good but up until now he hasn't proven it at any sort of decent level. I also don't see the need to rubbish the resumes of other fighters who are in and around Brook's age but have tested themselves at a higher level as of yet. Not saying Brooks not ready for an Ortiz but I would have thought hes a fairly obvious step up from Kell's past opposition which was my only point initially.

I never said he wasn't a step up just not a massive one. Mayweather and Pacquiao are a huge step up there isn't much to seperate the rest. What is there not to get into about the Maidana fight. He couldn't hack it being in with a strong but very average one dimensional fighter and quit.

He wasn't unlucky against Peterson a draw was a fair result and if that fight was 2 round longer Ortiz was beat.

As for Berto Forbes was coming off the back of defeats against Brewer and Demetrius Hopkins and De La Hoya with one soft win in amongst it. So he was well past anything he was ever capable of. Urango had a lot of average wins and nothing much to suggest he was anything more than a gatekeeper. Collazzo hadn't had a decent win in about 4 years when he fought Berto. Quintana was after the second fight with Williams when he threw himself out a ring so he's hardly a good opponent

brook will continue to prance around against weak opposition. hes miles behind berto, ortiz, bradley, alexander, khan. all with much better records. only way he can prove otherwise is by fighting one of them, and i look forward to it, but i aint gonna hold my breath

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:I never said he wasn't a step up just not a massive one. Mayweather and Pacquiao are a huge step up there isn't much to seperate the rest. What is there not to get into about the Maidana fight. He couldn't hack it being in with a strong but very average one dimensional fighter and quit.

He wasn't unlucky against Peterson a draw was a fair result and if that fight was 2 round longer Ortiz was beat.

As for Berto Forbes was coming off the back of defeats against Brewer and Demetrius Hopkins and De La Hoya with one soft win in amongst it. So he was well past anything he was ever capable of. Urango had a lot of average wins and nothing much to suggest he was anything more than a gatekeeper. Collazzo hadn't had a decent win in about 4 years when he fought Berto. Quintana was after the second fight with Williams when he threw himself out a ring so he's hardly a good opponent

where as ndou, hatton etc had done what before fighting brook??

But the fight wasn't two rounds longer so that cant be an argument. They both knew how many rounds the fight was scheduled for. With the knock downs I thought Ortiz did enough to win that fight.

As for the 4 Berto opponents I mentioned. I didn't say they were good opponents. You said Berto hasn't beat anyone and I said they're a step up from anything Brooks faced which I stand by.

As I said Brooks good but still has to prove it at any sort of world level. Who's to say he'll take a punch from someone like Ortiz? I hope he's as good as he looks against substandard opposition but I won't jump on the bandwagon till he shows it against a live opponent.

Lance wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:I never said he wasn't a step up just not a massive one. Mayweather and Pacquiao are a huge step up there isn't much to seperate the rest. What is there not to get into about the Maidana fight. He couldn't hack it being in with a strong but very average one dimensional fighter and quit.

He wasn't unlucky against Peterson a draw was a fair result and if that fight was 2 round longer Ortiz was beat.

As for Berto Forbes was coming off the back of defeats against Brewer and Demetrius Hopkins and De La Hoya with one soft win in amongst it. So he was well past anything he was ever capable of. Urango had a lot of average wins and nothing much to suggest he was anything more than a gatekeeper. Collazzo hadn't had a decent win in about 4 years when he fought Berto. Quintana was after the second fight with Williams when he threw himself out a ring so he's hardly a good opponent

where as ndou, hatton etc had done what before fighting brook??

I said Ortiz is a step up not a massive one. I'm not saying Brook has beat anyone special but neither has Ortiz, Berto or Alexander. Ortiz has a shocking defence and lacks bottle. Berto looks like he might not be that good. I'd put money on Brook beating them I've never been impressed by them. I'm not convinced Brook is as good as some people would lead you to believe just think that it's a pretty average weight with the exception of Mayweather and Pacquiao.

paperbag_puncher wrote:But the fight wasn't two rounds longer so that cant be an argument. They both knew how many rounds the fight was scheduled for. With the knock downs I thought Ortiz did enough to win that fight.

As for the 4 Berto opponents I mentioned. I didn't say they were good opponents. You said Berto hasn't beat anyone and I said they're a step up from anything Brooks faced which I stand by.

As I said Brooks good but still has to prove it at any sort of world level. Who's to say he'll take a punch from someone like Ortiz? I hope he's as good as he looks against substandard opposition but I won't jump on the bandwagon till he shows it against a live opponent.

I'm not sold on Brook the way some are I'm just not impressed with others at his weight.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

paperbag_puncher wrote:But the fight wasn't two rounds longer so that cant be an argument. They both knew how many rounds the fight was scheduled for. With the knock downs I thought Ortiz did enough to win that fight.

As for the 4 Berto opponents I mentioned. I didn't say they were good opponents. You said Berto hasn't beat anyone and I said they're a step up from anything Brooks faced which I stand by.

As I said Brooks good but still has to prove it at any sort of world level. Who's to say he'll take a punch from someone like Ortiz? I hope he's as good as he looks against substandard opposition but I won't jump on the bandwagon till he shows it against a live opponent.

I'm not sold on Brook the way some are I'm just not impressed with others at his weight.

I'd love to see him in with the winner of Ortiz & Berto all the same. They both have the makings of a cracking fight but not sure who I'd back without seeing the odds. In the meantime wouldnt mind seeing him in against someone like Maidana. Even though hes just been dominated by Alexander and his style is tailor made for Brook it would still be a step in the right direction. Brook vs Alexander although a bigger test would be a horrible watch..

Maidana would be good but he would need to win in style or it would look bad. Alexander would be horrible match up but it might be good for Brook because he would need to be the aggressor against a guy who can box and move which is something he has never had to do before.

Kell needs to be tested now at world level, he has made easy work of everyone he has been in with so far.

Matchroom need to get him one of the top contenders next =D

So many excuses put forward why fighters have beat no one of note. Berto has beaten a lot of good fighters, seems to fashionable to dismiss wins based on previous losses.