China no longer fielding a XV team internationally?

I was watching the 7's this morning and during the Hong Kong v China game, i think it was Andy Nichol who said that China have scrapped their XV national team in order to focus on 7's. I dont know if its true as i couldnt find anything on the old google. But wouldnt this be a sign of 7's becoming detrimental to the pinicle of the game?

No it's not.

The Great Aukster wrote:No it's not.

No it's not, what True or detrimental?

That would be very sad if it's true.

Though going back to the Olympic medals thing, the Chinease can probably get funding for a sevens team from their government.

Knowing the Chinese government, they absolutely see the Olympics as an opportunity for some propagada mileage. And Rugby 7s, higher profile in UK, Europe, and the South, is a sport they will be hell bent for leather to learn:
Programme the country to expect results,
Programme the athletes to understand the game,
Train the selected athletes in a separate environment,
Provide the athletes all the benefits of medical science,
Arm the athletes with drugs outside the current approved screenings list,

Bingo - a team prepared to successful in a high profile sport in only 4 years.
This is the exact same mind set as with the Soviets during the cold war.
If they fail, I guess they end up picking a lot of rice.

Thats true Doc...plus if the field a full 7's side where would they get enough players from to field a 15 side as well?

doctor_grey wrote: If they fail, I guess they end up picking a lot of rice.

These countries rarely fail!
I can assure you with 1.3 Billion people they have more than enough huge fit athletes to put a bloody good team together. they can;t be all 5'0" tall and 11 stone can they?!

I'm sure Yao Ming would have been picked at lock if lineouts were more important in 7s

I just think its strange and short sited for the Chinese RU to just abandon XV's. I understand that their sport are olympic oriented, but cutting the 15's national team. . . Bit drastic.

They don't really have a chance of qualifying for the world cup since Asia only get one spot and Japan is lightyears ahead of all the other Asian countries so i can see the logic. Plus 15's doesn't really benefit the Chinese government at all.

gowales wrote:.........Plus 15's doesn't really benefit the Chinese government at all.

Exactly. You have to remember why the Chinese government is at it in the first place. For them, its not about the game, or the athletes. Just the propaganda.

Well in a round about way its China/7s related,but congratulations to Fiji for last night winning the Hong Kong sevens,that final was one of the best displays of running rugby I've seen for a very long time.Final score 35-28 to Fiji.
Also congratulations to Spain.Portugal and canada being promoted up to the full traveling sevens circuit.

Coleman wrote:I was watching the 7's this morning and during the Hong Kong v China game, i think it was Andy Nichol who said that China have scrapped their XV national team in order to focus on 7's. I dont know if its true as i couldnt find anything on the old google. But wouldnt this be a sign of 7's becoming detrimental to the pinicle of the game?

yes it is , in the same way as 20/20 for cricket.

however i love abit of 7's and 20/20 as well as the longer/ formats of the games.

I think rugby 7's could make rugby union bigger around the world - which is only a good thing- and in all, honesty its a much better game to watch from a laymans perspective

mystiroakey wrote:

Coleman wrote:I was watching the 7's this morning and during the Hong Kong v China game, i think it was Andy Nichol who said that China have scrapped their XV national team in order to focus on 7's. I dont know if its true as i couldnt find anything on the old google. But wouldnt this be a sign of 7's becoming detrimental to the pinicle of the game?

yes it is , in the same way as 20/20 for cricket.

however i love abit of 7's and 20/20 as well as the longer/ formats of the games.

I think rugby 7's could make rugby union bigger around the world - which is only a good thing- and in all, honesty its a much better game to watch from a laymans perspective

I think it is a great way of getting nations introduced to the game...countries like Kenya, etc have progressed hugely...and other nations are taking part all the time.

However it is a very different game to 15's so it will still take time for these countries to make a mark in the larger game.

I see 7s as a rival sport.

Its enjoyable to watch. But it isnt Rugby Union. To me its like saying that Rugby League will make Rugby Union a bigger sport.

really red stag. I thought 7's players on the whole play club union- how is an international only game a rival to the bigger formats!!

Its just how I see it. We dont really do 7s in Ireland. I never played it when I was playing rugby.

Rugby Union isnt an Olympic game - 7s is.

The games are similar and I enjoy both. But I can just see a situation (actually very like this thread) where a lot of countries wont bother putting resources into a XV man game when 7s is so popular and easier to administer (less players, less risk of injury, lower insurance etc).

I could very easily see national 7s leagues being set up in NZ or England or Wales or wherever providing competition to Rugby Union.

Red stag- the so called countries arnt putting any resources into union!

Better to have rugby 7's than none at all.

These new Countries are now only investing in 7's like Kenya, China etc...

Most of the pro 7's players don't play club rugby anymore. They are fully contracted to their unions and focus 100% on 7's (England anyway), countries like Portugal, Samoa are pretty much amateur. Soon more and more players will have to choose between a career in 7's and 15's.

Like stag said i can see leagues and more tournaments being set up around the world.

Mysterkey,

I agree it is better to have 7s than none at all. The full game of rugby is very hard to set up properly. I've coached rugby out in Ghana and Ive seen first hand why 7s is easier for them.

I dont begrudge anyone that. I just think it will impact in years to come on the 15 man game.

"Mystiroakey, these new Countries are now only investing in 7's like Kenya, China etc... "

Im not sure...Africa has several competitions now and Kenya beat Tunisia in the final in November. Now aside from SA and Namibia Tunisia have been a very strong team on the continent, so it shows Kenya is improving in the 15 man game aswell.

7's will get you so much recognition in the game...but the 15's is still the dominant mode and all teams will be looking to do well in it.

7's should have been in the 2012 Olympics, what better place to bring it into the Games than playing it at HQ

I would have gone.

Thing is 15s is where the real money making potential is at the moment, but long term will 7s be seen as the more marketable and easier to set up product for the global market?

Money will be the driving factor in sports like rugby being taken up in a srious way in places like China or not

As long as people start to play 7's and start throwing a ball around then Rugby will be the winner long term.

exactly hersh. even if other nations dont set up short term 15 man teams on the back of 7's popularity- eventually you will get more forign players into big leagues from the 7's grass routes- that will knock on into getting other nations perhaps watching our prem games etc etc- and eventually could end up getting those countries into the 15 man format.

But is the same thing not true of say Rugby League?

No i wouldnt say so at all. Its more about what will get other nations into teh sport- I cant see any benefit fom having two pro codes of the game , however i can see big long term benefit in rugby 7's in terms of emerging markets

mystiroakey wrote:exactly hersh. even if other nations dont set up short term 15 man teams on the back of 7's popularity- eventually you will get more forign players into big leagues from the 7's grass routes- that will knock on into getting other nations perhaps watching our prem games etc etc- and eventually could end up getting those countries into the 15 man format.

Not if sevens becomes the more lucrative format in the long term, then you may see teh drain the other way

yep that is a point however i know you purists may not like this- but id rather rugby was a fully international sport with loads of countries even if 7's became the main game!!

mystiroakey wrote:No i wouldnt say so at all. Its more about what will get other nations into teh sport- I cant see any benefit fom having two pro codes of the game , however i can see big long term benefit in rugby 7's in terms of emerging markets

However I can in time see 7s becoming a third professional code.

Rugby 7's is essentially for wingers and flankers or big centres. Its quite specialised.

I dont think there would be a drain the other way even for money...as the majority of players dont have the physical skills required.

15s will always be the main format. And if you look at the new African Rugby Website (through the IRb) you can see the progression.

http://www.confederation-africaine-rugby.com/index.php/en/

This is Europes new regional site aswell

http://www.fira-aer-rugby.com/

I was a Prop with good hands and a good turn of speed, I've played a fair bit of 7's.

Although I did use to look like I'd run a marathon and then decided to eat 50lb’s of Rump steak from the amount of sweat I was dripping in.

Im not saying other positions cant play 7's...as you say props etc could be quick...and have power...but in general...its a game for flankers and wingers...

Believe me Props won't be playing 7's at the top level. Not fast enough and probably not the stamina for all that running (either that or I am guessing they are rubbish props in the 15 man game)

7's players look like superhumans to me- perfect shapeing- like swimmers more than typical 15 man rugby players

mystiroakey wrote:7's players look like superhumans to me- perfect shapeing- like swimmers more than typical 15 man rugby players

So therefore less like gym monkey freaks and more like normal atheletes?
I really like watching sevens, its really good entertainment, but there in my mind is the difference. Sevens is beers in the sun with mates, more of a day out, whereas a trip up to Twickenham would always be (for me anyway) focused around the rugby.

You wouldnt bet against other countries really putting the funding into sevens instead of 15's though, its far easier to pick up as a game in many ways and will be easier for the countries outside the traditional top 10 to make a break through as Kenya have done.

Bathman_in_London wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:7's players look like superhumans to me- perfect shapeing- like swimmers more than typical 15 man rugby players

So therefore less like gym monkey freaks and more like normal atheletes?
I really like watching sevens, its really good entertainment, but there in my mind is the difference. Sevens is beers in the sun with mates, more of a day out, whereas a trip up to Twickenham would always be (for me anyway) focused around the rugby.

You wouldnt bet against other countries really putting the funding into sevens instead of 15's though, its far easier to pick up as a game in many ways and will be easier for the countries outside the traditional top 10 to make a break through as Kenya have done.

And contrary to whats being said here...it IS contributing to an improvment in their 15's team. In November they won the African Cup beating Tunisia in the final. Now whilst they are all some way off competing with SA...the competition to qualify for 2015 will be very interesting this time round...

It certainly will, it would be good for Namibia to have some actual competition for the 2nd best team in Africa.

Both the Ivory coast and Zim have been in world cups before, it would be nice if they were able to start challenging for a place in the WC again.
Just imagine if Zim could attract their qualified players to play for them, a team with Mujati, Beast, Benton, Pocock, Chavanga etc could do pretty well at a WC, or better than Namibia at least?

Back in the amatuer days Zimbabwe beat New Zealand 10-8.

Not even Ireland can boast of that

They did indeed, 1948 or something similar? Those were the days when a tour would last a good 6 months or so!

Bathman,

I think Namibia might start to find themselves falling down the rankings in Africa. All these teams coming through like Morroco, Tunisia, Kenya, Ivory Coast etc have big populations and are only going to get better...as more people take up the sport. Even the like of Mauritania are now playing.

Namibia have been playing to the best of there limited resources....

Some countries only pump money into a sport if it´s an Olympic sport. Furthermore, those same countries only teach a sport in a school if it´s in the Olympics. So countries like China, Brazil and Russia will suddenly be putting focus into a sport that never had any support before.

Sevens is seen in many traditional rugby playing countries as a sideshow and circus festive type sport. Take it seriously though and have it exist alongside fifteen aside at the grassroots level and combine that with touch rugby and then you start to see why some countries have a better all-round skill set than others.

For those countries relatively new to the sport, sevens is as good an introduction to the sport as any in my opinion. 15s may be marginalised for the moment but these are merely the teeting stages. Sevens is not a transfer like league to union.

Geordie, I hope those teams do start to come up through, economically Africa is on the up so if rugby (in either 7's or 15's form) can become a sport which attracts funding, as more locals take up the sport as opposed to expats then so much the better for the world sport.

Kia, as you say (or hinted at), NZ are the best at both forms of the game, is this a coincidence? Clearly not, the emphasis on handling skills, fitness and spatial awareness which come with sevens are often things which we in the the NH complain about a lack of in our teams.

So long as the IRB are the governing body of 7s then I do not see how 7s can be regarded as a threat to the 15 aside version of the game.The best thing rugby union could do is promote,develop 7s and make sure it takes full ownership and control of it.

The threat I see in 7s is if a Kerry Packer type entrepeneur comes along and attempts to set up a breakaway professional travelling circus of the game,paying moonbeams to buy players,but if the IRB take steps now to secure 7s then the chances of this can be diminished.once this is done the IRB can sit back and enjoy the success of both versions of the game.

Bathman_in_London wrote:Geordie, I hope those teams do start to come up through, economically Africa is on the up so if rugby (in either 7's or 15's form) can become a sport which attracts funding, as more locals take up the sport as opposed to expats then so much the better for the world sport.

Kia, as you say (or hinted at), NZ are the best at both forms of the game, is this a coincidence? Clearly not, the emphasis on handling skills, fitness and spatial awareness which come with sevens are often things which we in the the NH complain about a lack of in our teams.

really i think figi would hav esomething to say about dat!!

I used to live in China and had a real suprise when I went past a high school and saw a game of cricket taking place. Baseball is also fairly popular as is basketball. So its not just Olympic sports.

Cheers for that nganboy. That is a surprise.

To be fair to bathman mystiroakey, New Zealand has won most of the sevens circuit in its current form. During the Serevi era, Fiji were invariably at the top of the sevens world and deservedly so.

I agree Laurie. We don't want to see a cricketing equivalent of a rebel sevens league taking away big name union players. We also probably don't want to see new versions of the game (abridged, different rules etc) to take away from the existing sports. Sevens and 15s can coexist but as you say, if the IRB holds all the options. I think 15s has a lot to learn from the success of the sevens circuit in recent times. The traditional tournaments like HK, Twickenham etc are still there but it has a global feel to it. Teams can also be eliminated and still have something to play for. I still think a World Cup with a plate or bowl equivalent coexisting alongside the main draw will reward teams who make it to the finals and give them the potential for success at some level that is simply beyond their reach in the current format.

You would hope that the IRB would have enough marbles to realise that they are sitting on something which is going to boom in popularity and try and keep out Packer type people accordingly, however it is the IRB so who knows...

I agree there should be a plate at the WC, I think that was part of the England bid which got rejected in favour of NZ in fact? It would give all the teams something to play for, rather than the likes of Japan having 1 match to target and then another 2 of pure damage limitation.