The Jeff run-in

First topic message reminder :

Another exciting prospect in view:

Current table:

Sunday, 22 April 2012 15:54 UK
Team P W D L F A BP PTS
1 Harlequins 21 16 1 4 502 379 5 71
2 Leicester 21 14 1 6 619 472 12 70
3 Saracens 21 15 1 5 449 328 6 68
4 Northampton 21 13 0 8 497 360 8 60
5 Exeter 21 12 0 9 414 381 11 59
6 Sale 21 10 0 11 443 514 9 49
7 Bath 21 9 0 12 362 384 8 44
8 Gloucester 21 8 1 12 438 455 10 44
9 London Irish 21 7 1 13 462 498 11 41
10 Worcester 21 7 1 13 308 406 6 36
11 Wasps 21 6 0 15 353 488 8 32
12 Newcastle 21 5 2 14 337 519 4 28


Sunday, 25 March 2012 17:01 UK

	Team	P	W	D	L	F	A	BP	PTS
1	Harlequins	18	14	1	3	412	300	4	62
2	Saracens	18	13	1	4	393	282	5	59
3	Leicester	18	11	1	6	498	405	9	55
4	Northampton	18	11	0	7	432	304	8	52
5	Exeter	18	10	0	8	350	326	9	49
6	Gloucester	18	8	1	9	375	376	8	42
7	Sale	18	8	0	10	384	464	8	40
8	Bath	18	8	0	10	330	330	7	39
9	London Irish	18	6	1	11	407	436	10	36
10	Worcester	18	7	1	10	253	307	5	35
11	Wasps	18	5	0	13	298	414	7	27
12	Newcastle	18	3	2	13	283	471	3	19

Remaining fixtures:

Bath: http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=241;template=fixtures
Chiefs http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=386;template=fixtures
Glaws http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=243;template=fixtures
Quins http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=244;template=fixtures
Tigers http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=246;template=fixtures
Irish http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=247;template=fixtures
Wasps http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=248;template=fixtures
Newcastle http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=249;template=fixtures
Saints http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=250;template=fixtures
Sharks http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=251;template=fixtures
Sarries http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=252;template=fixtures
Wuz http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/series/142402.html?team=253;template=fixtures

Sky also televise Championship football, and in any case, even if there is not Sky TV deal for the football, Reading own the ground are not contractually obliged to move fixtures on the say so of ESPN.

I am 99.9% certain that under the current lease agreement that we have with Reading we would not be able to return to the AP should we get relegated.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I thought LI did unless Reading got promoted? The only real conflicts of interest are when AP clubs share grounds with Premier League Clubs because then there is potential television arguements. For instance ESPN could insist on wanting to televise the rugby at the same time Sky could turn round and say that they wanted to schedule the football at the same time. That is unlikely to happen with football or rugby outside the top leagues though.

Reading are as we speak in line for automatic promotion to the premiership, so this situation could arise sooner rather than later. They were in the premiership a few years ago of course but that was before espn came along. I would imagine that Reading would get first choice though as it is their stadium?

Will all depend on the contract between LI and Reading. It's the reason Tigers couldn't reach an agreement with City to share a stadium, which is stupid because neither can play at the same time anyway. Mandaric was, at the time, certain that promotion was on the way and that the Tigers should follow along happily as partners in Leicester City's attempts at success.

Tigers didn't want to be tenants they wanted a 50% share in the stadium and were willing to pay extra to agree they had first dibs due to the tv heavy schedule they have. No agreement was made and the CAT stand heralded the start of the Tigers WR development.

Helpful really as the fans hated the idea of sharing grounds. That and the football lot don't drink enough to guarentee a)variety and b)a deep enough cellar. Previously Tigers hands were unhappy at the restricted choice of bitter and the fact the Walkers ran out of beer early into the second half.

I suppose we need an Irish fan to fill us in on the contract there but I can't believe many fans from either side love sharing. It would be a shame for the new Berkshire Irish fans to be ditched though if they moved back to London.

To be fair, a poor selection of ale is a common problem at football grounds, when I went to watch Sarries at wembley all they had were cans of guinness and 1 bloke to pour them out, 1 at a time...

Interesting results in Leicester and Newcastle tonight.

Who needs the playoffs?

Friday, 30 March 2012 21:56 UK
Team P W D L F A BP PTS
1 Harlequins 18 14 1 3 412 300 4 62
2 Leicester 19 12 1 6 541 418 10 60
3 Saracens 18 13 1 4 393 282 5 59
4 Northampton 18 11 0 7 432 304 8 52
5 Exeter 18 10 0 8 350 326 9 49
6 Gloucester 18 8 1 9 375 376 8 42
7 Sale 19 8 0 11 403 486 9 41
8 Bath 18 8 0 10 330 330 7 39
9 London Irish 18 6 1 11 407 436 10 36
10 Worcester 19 7 1 11 266 350 5 35
11 Wasps 18 5 0 13 298 414 7 27
12 Newcastle 19 4 2 13 305 490 3 23

If teams are level at any stage, they are ranked in order by:
1. number of wins
2. difference between points for and against
3. most tries scored
4. most points scored
5. difference between tries for and against

Portnoy wrote:Interesting results in Leicester and Newcastle tonight.

Who needs the playoffs?

Ach Portnoy, without the playoffs you'd never have Wasps win the league!

So true As.

Do you think I'm flogging a dead horse?

I quite like hamburgers.

Drop of peppered sauce, I see where you're going

Its going to be close at the top, Tigers are racking up the BPs now but "number of wins" as a tie breaker does put them at a slight disadvantage.

Who gets the home playoffs will come down to the clashes between the top sides

Newcastle still have a sniff of Wasps,and whilst the top 3 are pretty much in the playoffs the problesm at Northampton could help Exeter do the impossible and crash the party.

Then the rest are scrapping over the HC places. Everyone has something to play for, thats why the Jeff works...and even when this rollercoaster is over we still have the playoffs.
No meaningless games

C'mon Bath

HERSH wrote:C'mon Bath

Still backing the Bath League and Euro Double?

Next year my friend, next year we'll see the start of the goldern era of Bath Rugby.

golden shower?

Not if they hydrate adequately.

Quins become the first team to have (legitimately, league) qualified for the HEC?

It'll take a bit of number crunching to to see if any others are mathematically there too.

Saturday, 31 March 2012 19:20 UK
Team P W D L F A BP PTS
1 Harlequins 19 15 1 3 436 319 4 66
2 Saracens 19 13 1 5 412 306 6 60
3 Leicester 19 12 1 6 541 418 10 60
4 Northampton 19 12 0 7 458 310 8 56
5 Exeter 19 11 0 8 368 337 9 53
6 Gloucester 18 8 1 9 375 376 8 42
7 Sale 19 8 0 11 403 486 9 41
8 Bath 19 8 0 11 336 356 7 39
9 London Irish 19 6 1 12 418 454 11 37
10 Worcester 19 7 1 11 266 350 5 35
11 Wasps 18 5 0 13 298 414 7 27
12 Newcastle 19 4 2 13 305 490 3 23

If teams are level at any stage, they are ranked in order by:
1. number of wins
2. difference between points for and against
3. most tries scored
4. most points scored
5. difference between tries for and against

Our remaining fixtures are:
Gloucester away
Sarries at home
Wasps away

Wasps is winable...but i fear we'll lose the other two...and avoiding relegation may just be out of our grasp.

A couple of losing bonus points and it could be a play off for relegation at Wasps. I don't doubt they'll give it their best shot. Wasps don't have the easiest of run ins either.

Hmm.

1 Harlequins 20 16 1 3 469 336 5 71
2 Leicester 20 13 1 6 576 439 11 65
3 Saracens 20 14 1 5 440 325 6 64
4 Exeter 20 12 0 8 399 363 10 58
5 Northampton 20 12 0 8 479 345 8 56
6 Sale 20 9 0 11 419 495 9 45
7 Gloucester 20 8 1 11 419 431 9 43
8 Bath 20 8 0 12 345 372 8 40
9 London Irish 20 6 1 13 437 482 11 37
10 Worcester 20 7 1 12 292 381 6 36
11 Wasps 20 6 0 14 341 471 7 31
12 Newcastle 20 5 2 13 334 510 3 27

Pick the dead rubbers.

Friday, 20 April 2012
Newcastle v Saracens, 19:45
Saturday, 21 April 2012
Bath v Wasps, 14:15
Gloucester v Sale, 15:00
Harlequins v Leicester, 15:15
Worcester v London Irish, 15:00
Sunday, 22 April 2012
Exeter v Northampton, 14:00
Saturday, 5 May 2012
Leicester v Bath, 15:00
London Irish v Gloucester, 15:00
Northampton v Worcester, 15:00
Sale v Harlequins, 15:00
Saracens v Exeter, 15:00
Wasps v Newcastle, 15:00

And we need playoffs?

We don't need them. We want them

Without play-offs almost all the remaining games will be dead rubbers.

LondonTiger wrote:Without play-offs almost all the remaining games will be dead rubbers.

Like Champions,
HEC places
and
relegation

I expect you will wish to congratulate Quins as the "real" champions once they beat Sale and top the table.

I will.

I'd never want to begrudge a champion the championship

The only thing queering the pitch is playing during the IWs.

The team that wins the play off final are the champions.

Ozzy3213 wrote:The team that wins the play off final are the champions.

I agree. I am also impressed with Portnoy's consistency.

Any way, topping the table is realistically out of reach for Tigers and Sarries, who are now almost certain to meet in the Semis this year. Question is at Welford or Vicarage Rd?

I disagree LT.

Tigers could realistically beat Quins next week putting them at worst on 69 points, and Quins at best on 72.

Tigers will beat Bath with a bonus point at home on the final day giving them 74 points, whereas Quins will face a tough trip to Edgeley Park.

I honestly can't see Tigers losing again this season.

Ozzy3213 wrote:I disagree LT.

Tigers could realistically beat Quins next week putting them at worst on 69 points, and Quins at best on 72.

Tigers will beat Bath with a bonus point at home on the final day giving them 74 points, whereas Quins will face a tough trip to Edgeley Park.

I honestly can't see Tigers losing again this season.

I think with our full team out next week it'll be close. Tigers might just be favourites but it isn't going to be easy- it seems Toulon fired us up more than destroying our confidence. We NEED our best pack or close to it though, we just don't have the depth to approach the remaining games with anything less

If we top the table, which means beating Quins (possible) and Bath AND Sale doing us a favour means we could well have a semi final against Exeter the only team who would then have done the double over us.

People may think the play offs are a farce..ie The team that finishes top should win..etc etc

HOWEVER

An even bigger farce...and i say it even as a Falcons fan (a honest one) but there could be the situation that the team that finishes top in the championship ..and possibly even the next couple down might not get promoted due to disqualifying on ground capacity / venue issues. So if luck is with us we could on a possibility escape relegation despite finishing bottom.

Now THAT is farsical! But i would reluctantly have to accept it.....

Well, I disagree the Premeirship playoffs are a farse. I like them, and frankly, they are here to stay.

BUt I do agree the situation with promotion/relegation is silly. Some Premeirship clubs do not qualify for the for the Premeriship based upon their stadium's attributes. Yet are there battling every week.

And most Championship clubs do not qualify for promotion as well. Not sure if this is accurate, but are Bristol and Leeds the only clubs in the Championship playoffs who would actually qualify for promotion? And there are 12 clubs. All things being equal, only a 17% chance for there to be a club to be promoted, and therefore, only a 17% chance for any Premeirship club to be relegated. Really begs the question about why bother.

LondonTiger wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:The team that wins the play off final are the champions.

I agree. I am also impressed with Portnoy's consistency.

Any way, topping the table is realistically out of reach for Tigers and Sarries, who are now almost certain to meet in the Semis this year. Question is at Welford or Vicarage Rd?

"The team that wins the play off final are the champions" are the Play-off or Grind final, if you like, winners

" I am also impressed with Portnoy's consistency"
Can I save this comment LT and apply it to my desktop saver?
I've always been portrayed as a form of a sociopath on this board.

I agree the capacity requirement and primacy of tenure should be dropped. However the guidance to what you need for a premiership ground also covers medical facilities, spectator welfare ets. This runs to 65 pagesd and should be kept.

LondonTiger wrote:I agree the capacity requirement and primacy of tenure should be dropped. However the guidance to what you need for a premiership ground also covers medical facilities, spectator welfare ets. This runs to 65 pagesd and should be kept.

I agree precisely on all of LT's points

If there is such a slim chance of a Championship (nee Div. 1) club winning their competition and qualifying for promotion, why bother?

And if one wants to keep promotion/relegation, then how to make it a real carrot (or stick)?

If Sale, before announcing their ground share for instance, were relegated, they couldn't regain promotion based upon Edgeley Park.

The mains reason why clubs in the Championship do not meet the requirements are because their grounds are too small. The requirement to have a 10k minimum size is crazy as half the teams have average attendances at their home grounds below this. Hence why I say it should be scrapped.

Primacy of tenure makes ground sharing much harder and would prevent LI being promoted if relegated (I thought Sale were ok here and Edgeley Park passed the audit). Should be scrapped.


I cannot agree however that clubs should be promoted when they have grounds without adequate medical facilities to cope with what can be catastrophic injuries. Nor where they would not pass the more stringent Fire Brigade checks in place for the premiership. Grounds that fail these elements are not fit for top flight rugby.

Grounds which do not have the proper disabled access, enough toilets etc could perhaps be given a years grace as long as a plan is in place to build these.


Sorry to repeat myself, but most of the requirements are right and proper. The insistence on 10k capacity and primacy of tenure are not.

Sale would not have been able to come back up at Edgeley Park, but it was not primacy of tenure which was the reason, it was to do with facilities. My understanding was that they did not have the requisite number of toilets per seats in the ground.

Ah, thanks.

Just realised summat. Does that mean Rugby Fans are more full of p*** and Sh*t compared to footie fans?

LondonTiger wrote:Just realised summat. Does that mean Rugby Fans are more full of p*** and Sh*t compared to footie fans?

No.
Ours smells better.

LondonTiger wrote:Just realised summat. Does that mean Rugby Fans are more full of p*** and Sh*t compared to footie fans?

No, footie fans tend not to use the toilets.

That may explain the state of the pitch at Edgeley Park

does anyone think that Exeter will hold onto 4th. If they win at the weekend they will but are northhampton falling off again akin to last year. If quins get top I would fancy Exeter or Saints to have a good chance of making the final if it is Tigers it will be Tigers and Scars

Brendan wrote:does anyone think that Exeter will hold onto 4th. If they win at the weekend they will but are northhampton falling off again akin to last year. If quins get top I would fancy Exeter or Saints to have a good chance of making the final if it is Tigers it will be Tigers and Scars

We'll see

I do think that if Quinns finish top they will stand a better chance but I don't think they will be as dauting as tigers.
It would be travsity if Quinn don't make the final it would be really unfair on them as they have been top for so long

Tigers will finish top.

That is why I think If tigers get top it doesn't matter who gets 4th as tigers will win. of course Exeter if they lost the payoffs by 100+ points they wouldn't care they would be there which is amazing as it is

Semi finals will be Tigers v Chiefs and Quins v Saracens with Tigers beating Quins in the final.

Brendan wrote:does anyone think that Exeter will hold onto 4th. If they win at the weekend they will but are northhampton falling off again akin to last year. If quins get top I would fancy Exeter or Saints to have a good chance of making the final if it is Tigers it will be Tigers and Scars

Which implies that you think that Exeter, Saints and Sarries could all beat Quins in a semi-final at the Stoop. I wouldn't be so sure. Exeter have never won at the Stoop and while Sarries and Saints have both beaten Quins this year, in both cases they were able to field a full-strength side, playing away from the Stoop and in cold conditions. Facing Quins on home turf in warm weather when both Sarries and Saints are missing key players is a very different prospect. The Quins squad is in decent shape and O'Shea is protecting his most critical players. Unless Tigers cause a lot of injuries this weekend, I don't think any of the contenders for 3rd & 4th would have an easy ride.

Brendan wrote:That is why I think If tigers get top it doesn't matter who gets 4th as tigers will win. of course Exeter if they lost the payoffs by 100+ points they wouldn't care they would be there which is amazing as it is

Exeter did the double over us this season.