ATP Latest: Nadal Resigns And The Plot...Thickens...

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Nadal resigns from ATP council of players.

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=16968&zoneid=25

An unexpected but not quite so surprising development
Interesting times ahead.


What's coming next?

I heard he had to resign after newspapers stories of him being caught with an aardvark, a pygmy hippopotamous, a bottle of olive oil, a kilogram of Seville oranges and two jugs of Sangria.

Have you read the posts Reckoner, perhaps you are getting your views confused with Veejay's.

amritia3ee wrote:You really do talk a load of b*llocks Veejay.
So repetitive atleast Tenez posts about other things, not just assertions against Nadal.

Always happy to meet a fan
So what do you suggest I do instead,should I comment about the wonderful dream I had of me flying off to the outskirts of our galaxy on my magical tricycle or should I stick to the subject of the thread?
Was going to say is not rocket science but that doesn't seem appropriate
If what I am saying is such a load of b*llocks,why not challenge it rather then just say its a load of b*llocks?
Don't you think you would have more credibility by proving me wrong or at least adding something to the debate.If youre going to take the time read such repetitive drivel and comment on top of that you might as well add some value no?
And if its such a load of b*llocks,it shouldn't be hard to prove what a load of b*llocks it is,so go on tell me whats a load of b*llocks..was the medias fault again?

Go on then..
What should I debate against?
Your list was too long, should I just pick out a random thing?

amritia3ee wrote:Have you read the posts Reckoner, perhaps you are getting your views confused with Veejay's.

Huh? I don't even know how I would get my views confused with someone else's. Did you read my question?

Veejay:
And why did I find around 97% of your posts was about Nadal.
Aren't you a Federer fan? Just obsessed with bringing down his arch rival, no?

amritia3ee wrote:Go on then..
What should I debate against?
Your list was too long, should I just pick out a random thing?

You don't need to ask which one, just choose one you disagree with and go right ahead.

This was posted by Veejay at the beginning of Indian Wells after Nadal had played against Grannolers.
'If Nadal hits one ace in a match its an achievement by his standards,3 +..wow..we're talking about breaking personal records here..dont expect it to stop there in the next few weeks
But as usual you're not looking at the bigger picture..for him to be able to achieve any of that,pace plays a big part,how do you add such pace in under 4 weeks when everything else you've tried didnt do the trick?'

He was inciting Nadal had miraculously added pace, hinting towards usage of streroids. However Nadal's average serve speed against Grannolers was around the same as the AO final, and he only hit 3 aces during the whole match. Thus his theory of rapid sudden improvement of serve is void, PEDs or not.

Veejay here again makes a false assertion about why Nadal took Feb off.
'So every year after the AO he has been out on a joint injury.'
If you followed the PED thread you would realise that he was hinting Nadal does this to take steroids. However the whole point is completely false.
Nadal had said by Feb his shoulder injury was gone, and he was just going to rest/practice in February. He wasn't injured due to 'joint injury' in Feb.'

amritia3ee wrote:That's around half of it.

I thought of reading it, but looking at the size I gave up, come on Amrit dont get too emotional, this big post is difficult to read let alone write.

Again:
'But I maintain the opinion that if Nadal really believed in the cause he wouldn't run away or quit.I doubt this would even be the scandal it is if Nadal handled the situation in a more profession way rather then get personal'
We do not even know that Nadal has quit- it is not yet official, how can Veejay claim to be able to read Nadal's mind and 'realise' why he has quit (if the claim is true). Who knows ?

OK I'm getting tired now, maybe some more later. It's seriously long list, you can't criticise me for not analysing all of it.

Edit:

People who are opening this on page 2 and don't know what the list is probably think we are all crazy.

Amrit, I think you've joined the debate - excellent!

So the next time Veejay or me or anyone for that matter posts something about serve speeds or what have you, perhaps you put forward your point of view and then we'll hopefully have a more balanced debate.

Peace, out!

I always post my point of view, like I have done at 12:19 etc.

Can always recognise a fan when I see one but I never took you for obsessive type
Well thank you Amritia for reviving a golden oldie,Im truly flattered

But thats the thing about the truth,no matter where you go,where you run or where you hide,you cannot escape it,you cannot delete it and you cannot edit it.
As you said some of the other comments were deleted but the truth survived.The truth is immortal and will live forever
If I was talking such a load of rubbish,or a bunch of lies,it would be easy to just laugh it off and ignore what Im saying because you would know its not true,but what I say clearly bugs you and I believe the reason why it does its because you know theres some truth in what Im saying
Sooner or later you'll have to man up and accept the truth for what it is
Protecting your idol for all his wrong and unethical shenanigans is bad karma
You're basically in an indirect way condoning what he does and I won't for one minute believe you will turn around tell me that theres absolutely nothing wrong with breaking the rules,lying about injuries,abusing medical time outs and all the rest
And you cant tell me Im making this up cause Murray and Federer have also complained about some of the above
But if this is truly your stance,that Murray,Federer and everyone else who agrees are wrong and that Nadal is absolutely right and within his rights to breaks the rules of the games,I,and Im sure a few others would like to hear it from the horses mouth....so Ill be waiting.Go on tell us what he is doing is not wrong

amritia3ee wrote:I always post my point of view, like I have done at 12:19 etc.

Oh fair enough - it's just I tend to see you judging other's posts but not actually responding to them. I realise obviously that I haven't seen all the discussions but that's been my limited experience.

Anyway look - we Federer fans had to put up with Simple_Analyst (and his aliases) slating Federer at every turn for ages and had a whole bunch of hysterical fan-girls to contend with so I do sympathise.

Thank you Reckoner

Veejay wrote:
If I was talking such a load of rubbish,or a bunch of lies,it would be easy to just laugh it off and ignore what Im saying because you would know its not true,but what I say clearly bugs you and I believe the reason why it does its because you know theres some truth in what Im saying

So if I don't say anything you'll say you've won the debate as I have no response, but if I do respond and debunk+ destroy your points you also win the debate as the fact I've responded shows I'm 'bugged' by it which means it must be true?
Once again I debunk your hypothesis.

amritia3ee wrote:Go on then..
What should I debate against?
Your list was too long, should I just pick out a random thing?

My list? Where and what is my list?
Amritia,trying to discredit me is not going to change anything,but of you want to do that by all means go ahead..desperate times calls for desperate measures.I knew this would be the route you'd chose,instead of addressing the points you attack the messenger-in true Nadal style,exactly the way Nadal personally attacked Roger because of a difference in opinion
Even if I have no credibility left,it won't make this go away.My credibility and what Nadal does is not linked
I thought this was basic common sense but clearly I was wrong...
I would like you to explain to me why Nadal resigned from the council
Nadal,Federer and Djokovic etc are some of the most important people in the tennis community,such a move is like distancing or isolating yourself from that community
There was no reason for Nadal to resign, if he didn't really want anything to do with the council he could have remained an inactive silent member rather then create controversy and more drama

Well I have clearly quoted, and debunked your points (as reckoner asked) earlier on this page. Can you not see that?
See around 12:19 etc.

Secondly let's see why (or whether) Nadal says he has resigned from the council before jumping to rash conclusions.

Veejay wrote:
Even if I have no credibility left,it won't make this go away.

Well I can see that you have no credibility left, but I also agree with your point that it doesn't affect the points.
Hence I went through the trouble and analysed some of your points, as Reckoner asked, one by one. It's near the top of Page 2.

amritia3ee wrote:Thank you Reckoner

Veejay wrote:
If I was talking such a load of rubbish,or a bunch of lies,it would be easy to just laugh it off and ignore what Im saying because you would know its not true,but what I say clearly bugs you and I believe the reason why it does its because you know theres some truth in what Im saying

So if I don't say anything you'll say you've won the debate as I have no response, but if I do respond and debunk+ destroy your points you also win the debate as the fact I've responded shows I'm 'bugged' by it which means it must be true?
Once again I debunk your hypothesis.

No if you disagree and you decide to voice the fact that you disagree wouldn't it be natural to give the reasons why you disagree and also challenge what is said?
If you don't do that,all you're basically doing is saying saying "no,you're wrong because I say so"

You never debunked anything,and Im sure Laverfan Djloves and everyone else who was on your final verdict thread were all witness to the many comments you never even attempted to address yet you had the nerve to call it a final verdict because of what I said!!!
Funny how you don't ever believe a word of what I say but the moment I say something that suits your agenda you use it a proof!
Come on Amritia you're going to have to do better then this...youre embarrassing yourself
I thought you'd maxed your ability out on the final verdict but at the rate you're going I wouldn't blame the mods for deleting thread

I did challenge what you are saying:

My post at 12:19

amritia3ee wrote:This was posted by Veejay at the beginning of Indian Wells after Nadal had played against Grannolers.
'If Nadal hits one ace in a match its an achievement by his standards,3 +..wow..we're talking about breaking personal records here..dont expect it to stop there in the next few weeks
But as usual you're not looking at the bigger picture..for him to be able to achieve any of that,pace plays a big part,how do you add such pace in under 4 weeks when everything else you've tried didnt do the trick?'

He was inciting Nadal had miraculously added pace, hinting towards usage of streroids. However Nadal's average serve speed against Grannolers was around the same as the AO final, and he only hit 3 aces during the whole match. Thus his theory of rapid sudden improvement of serve is void, PEDs or not.

Also check out my posts at 12:23 and 12:26 they are similar.

What more do you want me to do:
Break it down letter by letter?

Amiritia,why are you bringing this up,I never made those comments on this thread,my initial comments on this thread were in relation to the subject at hand
You complain that all I do is repetitive Nadal bashing,well now everyone can see for themselves that you're instigating it so you're really the last one to complain
I "thought loosing sleep over it" was just an expression,but I see you're clearly staying up trying to bluff your way though another final verdict that will neither change mine or your opinion
The difference between you and me is that you try to prove you're right,where as I don't need to prove anything,I give my opinion on what I believe to be correct,I will debate and challenge but Im not forcing you to believe anything and Im certainly not hell bend to change it by proving how wrong you are
Seems an utterly pointless process when someone lacks moral clarity

Firstly it's spelt Amritia.

Secondly what am I instigating? Nadal bashing? I apologise, I will try not to 'bash' him in future.

And I'm not bluffing at all, you can read the posts on this thread, nor am I forcing you to believe anything.

And I did not make any judgements on the list, I just posted it. Draw your own conclusions.

[quote="amritia3ee"]Firstly it's spelt Amritia.

Secondly what am I instigating? Nadal bashing? I apologise, I will try not to 'bash' him in future.

And I'm not bluffing at all, you can read the posts on this thread, nor am I forcing you to believe anything.

And I did not make any judgements on the list, I just posted it. Draw your own conclusions.

[/quote

Same difference
I still waiting for you to confirm your stance,that you believe Nadal is 100% correct and within his right to break the rules of the game and resort to the tactics he does
Im also still waiting for you to explain to me why he had to resign from the players council?
Did he really have to resign?
If he didn't want to be a part of it anymore,couldnt he just have remained an inactive silent member instead of creating such controversy and drama?
Resigning is basically declaring to everyone that you don't want anything to do with the council anymore

Nore Staat wrote:I heard he had to resign after newspapers stories of him being caught with an aardvark, a pygmy hippopotamous, a bottle of olive oil, a kilogram of Seville oranges and two jugs of Sangria.

Nore Staat. At least someone has managed to wade through the mountains of evidence and get to the heart of the matter. What you have discovered is scandalous (to say the least... ) I will never be able to look at Rafa in the same light. There will be no excuse now not to have clocks and buzzers fitted on ever court and make sure Rafa is followed 24/7 to ensure he keeps his water bottles in his bag (like everyone else) and not on the court... His rapid decent down the rankings will surely follow.

Yes, complete and utter disaster for Nadal this one. I'm sure the guy is besides himself with grief. Players come and go with these councils, let someone else have a go and have their say.

This is not Nadal quitting because he didn't get his own way.

Look at the Protected Ranking he was supporting. Del Potro and Soderling would actually look at it differently now given their injuries/illnesses they have suffered. Del Potro had taken the best part of 18 months to get back to the top 10. He would argue it took him 2-3 years to get into the top 10 only for injury to take it away from him. Soderling has not been in action since August 2011 and is currently ranked 29th in the world, but I am sure that will change in the upcoming weeks. Again he might be lured by the idea given at 27 he might find it difficult to once again get into the top 10.

On the other side of the coin others would argue that if the player is talented enough that they would be able to reach the same levels in they raised in their games.

For me the reason it is a big no no is purely because it is open to abuse as to which players would skip tournaments claiming 'injury' when in fact they were 'resting' to better manage their schedules.

legendkillarV2 wrote:This is not Nadal quitting because he didn't get his own way.

Look at the Protected Ranking he was supporting. Del Potro and Soderling would actually look at it differently now given their injuries/illnesses they have suffered. Del Potro had taken the best part of 18 months to get back to the top 10. He would argue it took him 2-3 years to get into the top 10 only for injury to take it away from him. Soderling has not been in action since August 2011 and is currently ranked 29th in the world, but I am sure that will change in the upcoming weeks. Again he might be lured by the idea given at 27 he might find it difficult to once again get into the top 10.

On the other side of the coin others would argue that if the player is talented enough that they would be able to reach the same levels in they raised in their games.

For me the reason it is a big no no is purely because it is open to abuse as to which players would skip tournaments claiming 'injury' when in fact they were 'resting' to better manage their schedules.

Actually, I'm not sure JMDP would have benefitted under the 2 year ranking that was proposed - I won't rehash the argument here as there's a thread that goes through the pros and cons quite exhaustively if you're interested.

I agree that such a system might be prone to abuse as you say, and would point out that for newer players trying to break through it'd be a nightmare.

I have read through it.

I am not going to rehash the argument. Just pointing out before posters cry that Nadal is quitting purely because his own views were not given serious consideration.

legendkillarV2 wrote:I have read through it.

I am not going to rehash the argument. Just pointing out before posters cry that Nadal is quitting purely because his own views were not given serious consideration.

I'm quite sure Nadal's views were given serious consideration - I don't think anyone is about to argue otherwise.

But the issue is how self serving those views were and that he is now claiming a lack of support where previously he was claiming a broad consensus with the majority of the players on the tour.

I wouldn't say Nadal was quitting because he didn't get his own way per se.

I'm guessing he quit because he wasn't getting as much personal benefit from the position that he envisaged and figured that it was probably time he could be spending doing something more productive.

Let's be honest, it's not like he's ever come out and said anything to show that he cares about the rights of the average 'workaday' top 100 player, which should have been part of his job.

Soon he will resign from the sport.

noleisthebest wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

laverfan wrote:I wonder if it is time for Djokovic to step into the council.

Now Dont say me Djoko is beating Nadal in this one too, may be Rafa realised that he is no more the top dog and before Nole out powers him he resigns himself.

I thought Nole's already on the council, and for quite a few years now.

"Along with Federer and Nadal, the following individuals comprise the 2010-2012 ATP Player Council:

1-50 singles ranking: Roger Federer, Fernando Gonzalez, Rafael Nadal, Sam Querrey
51-100 singles ranking: Peter Luczak, Jarkko Nieminen
1-100 doubles ranking: Eric Butorac, Nenad Zimonjic
At-large: Yves Allegro, Ashley Fisher
Coach: Claudio Pistolesi
Alumni: Ignacio Hirigoyen
"

Gonzalez retired. Nadal resigned, so two posts are open.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2010/06/Other/ATP-Player-Council.aspx

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/9168264/Rafael-Nadal-resigns-as-ATP-players-body-vice-president-after-lack-of-movement-on-changes-to-ranking-system.html

I wondered why the Telegraph in another article this week had quoted Djokovic and Federer about the negotiations between the top 4 and the grand slam tournament representatives. Federer was at pains to point out that the negotiating for the players to have a greater share of the tournament profits was being done on behalf of all the players and he hoped the lower ranked players would understand this. It seemed strange at the time not to quote the vice-president of the players' council, but obviously he had probably tendered his resignation a few days ago - I bet Djokovic is probably going to stand for election.

Perhaps TP although Fed and Djokovic don't exactly see eye to eye. Perhaps they can put their personalities aside for the good of the game.

lydian wrote:Perhaps TP although Fed and Djokovic don't exactly see eye to eye. Perhaps they can put their personalities aside for the good of the game.

I am sure, if there are differences, that they will be able to. Fed and Rafa have enjoyed a very cordial relationship on the Players' Council - there has obviously been disagreement now over two major issues, and Nadal probably does feel having pushed so strongly for ranking change and change to the schedule that without the backing of the majority of players for such changes, it is untenable for him to stay on the council representing the players on a course that he has declared himself to be in opposition to.

Yes I think thats the place Nadal got to. I wonder how relations between him and Federer are after this. I also wondered whether the resignation news was on Federer's mind in any way last night.

Would be interesting if Nole went on, he and Federer really dont care for each other (partic. the way Fed feels about Djoko and his family)...and this might be a stumbling block to Nole joining. Still you never know...

Not so good probably just atm but hopefully they are both professional and mature enough to move on.

Federer was very ungracious after last year's USO and of course there is the 'be quiet' incident, but apart from that he has spoken warmly about Djokovic - at Wimbledon 2010 when he joked about asking Novak how to greet the Queen, and frequently telling journalists not to forget about Nole, notably before AO 2009.

Federer doesn't have the power to stop anybody who puts themselves up for election joining the PC if the players elect them. Djokovic may not want this role. I do note though that Djokovic has been very professional and guarded in what he has said to the press (to date anyway) since the first of the 'players' complaints' really began to hit the headlines last August.

Wasn't Djokovic on the players council at one point and resigned?

I'm not sure

Perhaps too much focus by ourselves (as ever )and media on these three guys. There are surely lots of other players lower down the top 50 who might wish to put themselves up......

time please

Not sure where to look to find past members of the council but did find this

Rivals for supremacy on the court, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic have now become political allies off it in an attempt to take more control over the direction of tennis.

Saturday in London, two days before Wimbledon begins, the world’s three top men’s players are all but certain to be voted on to the player council of the Association of Tennis Professionals.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/sports/tennis/17tennis.html

It's dated June 2008 and says "almost certain to be voted onto the council". Maybe someone knows if Djokovic was?

lags72 wrote:Perhaps too much focus by ourselves (as ever )and media on these three guys. There are surely lots of other players lower down the top 50 who might wish to put themselves up......

very true!

djlovesyou wrote:I wouldn't say Nadal was quitting because he didn't get his own way per se.

I'm guessing he quit because he wasn't getting as much personal benefit from the position that he envisaged and figured that it was probably time he could be spending doing something more productive.

Let's be honest, it's not like he's ever come out and said anything to show that he cares about the rights of the average 'workaday' top 100 player, which should have been part of his job.

The thing is Federer and Nadal are there to represent the players,not their own interests
Im sure Federer has many ideas of changing things like perhaps speeding up all the courts which he would really benefit from but 1 he doesn't voice such self serving opinions because he knows his job is to represent the players not himself and 2 he won't resign because of that.He knows the job isn't about him,even if he doesnt agree with many things,its not a reason to resign because its about the representing the players not himself.Sometimes you have to do a job or represent people or things you don't agree with,but thats part and parcel of what comes with the position.To resign shows that Nadal doesn't care about representing the players,he was only interested in representing his own interests,if he really cared about representing the players he would never have resigned
Its quite damaging in light of recent events,it leads people to question if Nadal is unable to get along with everyone

drip, drip, drip....
yeah Nadal was so unpopular and unable to get on with and represent his peers that he was voted back onto the council several times.
Is a player supposed to stay on the council forever?

lydian wrote:drip, drip, drip....
yeah Nadal was so unpopular and unable to get on with and represent his peers that he was voted back onto the council several times.
Is a player supposed to stay on the council forever?

Were they going to vote for Nadal the world no1/2 or someone ranked 168 in the world no one has ever heard of?
With Nadals ranking and status comes responsibilities,the players look up to the higher ranked players as when they speak,people tend to listen more then they would for some unknown player
I thought this was common sense but I guess I was wrong...

Is a player supposed to stay on the council forever? No,cause no one lives forever..I thought this was common sense too but I guess I was wrong again
But if a player is honoured by his peers to be chosen to represent them ,voted back onto council several times,its a slap in their face to represent his own interests rather then theirs and also to resign is another slap in the face for those who voted for him to represent them

Enough is enough!

On 606v2 there are now three active threads that are basically the same. A very few posters with an agenda to repeat over and over.... and over and over again why they personally dislike one of the most popular, well respected and most talented of players of all times.

Is this what a general tennis forum is supposed to look like?

hawkeye wrote:Enough is enough!

On 606v2 there are now three active threads that are basically the same. A very few posters with an agenda to repeat over and over.... and over and over again why they personally dislike one of the most popular, well respected and most talented of players of all times.

Is this what a general tennis forum is supposed to look like?

I agree,but it seems everyone has a different opinion about what "enough is enough" applies to
If threads like these offend you,why not practice your free will by ignoring them and stick to commenting on the threads or subjects you want to talk about

Apologies, wrote that one in the wrong thread.