Sarries vs Quins

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An absolutely massive game for both teams this weekend- first vs second in the league at what is basically a neutral venue in front of a massive crowd. Both teams have very different gameplans, though in their most recent matches these seemed to be reversed with Sarries playing some fast-paced rugby to win by a big margin and Quins winning ugly against Bath by taking their chances in a match where Evans' unfortunate drop-off in form and Wayne Barnes' pernickety refereeing counteracted the fine weather to lead to torrid display from both sides. Both sides suffered some poor games during the 6 N but have gotten back to winning ways. Now they will both have all their England players back and very strong squads out. This will lead to some very interesting battles all across the park- as the teams are not yet finalised, some of this is conjecture

15- A Goode vs M Brown

Both good fullbacks with solid defence and good attacking instincts and capable kicking games, all-round fullbacks if you like, Brown with 6 tries this season and unlucky to be behind the classy Foden at 15 for England, Goode one of Saracens more attacking-minded players. Both are definitely possibilities to tour SA, and with Goode arguably winning the head to head against Brown in their last encounter, I am sure that we will see some good rugby from both men

wings- Strettle vs Monye. Both men have played together in the Quins team of a few years ago, both men have represented England. Both looked like being "yesterday's men" not long ago, with Strettle struggling with injuries and form and playing at a club where wingers are not utilised as often as they might and Monye being played out of position and also out of form. Both have looked better of late, both have made some telling defensive contributions and both are capable of making great breaks and tries. On the other wing, presumably Williams will face off against Short (though with Wyles' good match last week I am sure he will contribute somewhere).

Inside Centre- Barritt vs JTH. Frankly Brad Barritt has been a revelation for England, acting as the defensive glue in the midfield. JTH plays a very similar game for Quins, probably worse at general passing but a bit quicker and better at (or more likely to use) "offloads". He looked out of sorts in January but hopefully that is better now and he can press for his England starting place. With Lowe probably starting outside him against either Farrell or Wyles, both centre pairings are defensively sound (less so if either Hopper or Casson plays) but Quins have more to offer, for me, in attack. The question is will Sarries let Quins get the ball and space to do so?

Flyhalf- Farrell/Hodgson vs Evans. Evans' form has dropped off of late, but I am desperately hoping that this big game is the one where he gets it back. Some people feel his talents have been over-exaggerated. They are welcome to their opinion, but having watched the man at the Blues, in his few games for the ABs and at Quins, I feel he is one of the most complete Flyhalves in the game at the moment, with beautiful kicking out of hand, for goal, decision making, game dictation, passing and running as a individual threat. He is a proven game winner and leader, though since that loss to Saracens in December something has been wrong, both with his boot and his ability to control the game (see Connaught). Farrell on the other hand is on the up and is a nerveless goal kicker, with great temperament (though not necessarily decision-making) in big games and equally deft as Evans as kicking out of hand. He lacks a running threat or the ability to fire up attacking moves but Saracens play to their strengths so this may not be necessary. He has also had a good debut International tournament and a brave defence. As does Hodgson, so no plans of sending Maurie and the other forwards down the 10 channel. Hodgson's nerve is a little more suspect as is his kicking under pressure, but he CAN get a backline flowing so he covers the fly-half skills that Farrell does not. If Evans is on form, I feel he is a better 10 than either but, unless something has changed this week, he is not so this will be a great battle to watch.

The back-row- Quins have Robshaw back and his work-rate, utter consistency in the tackle and leading by example are hard to overvalue. Together with big Mo, Wallace and Easter (still with a huge point to prove) the Harlequins back-row covers all bases, has a strong balance and is very competitive at the breakdown, especially as Robshaw has somewhat improved his breakdown game playing out of position for England. Saracens have lost two huge presences in the back row- Kelly Brown and Burger. Most other teams could not cover for this, but Sarries still look very strong with Saull (an out and out 7 who could be competing with Wallace for future England honours) and Joubert in the mix. I expect, but am not convinced, Quins to win in this area.

The front row- The second row looks to be Sarries' to me, but the front row and the scrum looks fascinating- Sarries' have Brits, Smit and George at Hooker, all class acts, one a likely England candidate at some point, one is one of the AP's standout players and a threat across the whole park, probably his team's most important player for me and the other has captained SA to a World Cup and covers prop to boot. Quins have Grey, pressing for an England tour place, very mobile in the loose but seen by many to be too small he will want to put in a big show against players of his opposition's calibre. Nieto and Gill are good scrummagers but Johnston's scrummaging has come on leaps and bounds as has Marler's (our scrum has looked to be a strength rather than a weakness since he has been trained by Rowntree) and the latter is an important player in the loose for Quins. He may also face up against Stevens, who currently holds the final matchday prop place for England but has looked less than convincing in the loose or the set piece and whose spot Marler will fancy.



The weather for Saturday is overcast but dry, with some moderate wind, with warmish temperatures of about 14 degrees, which will neither particularly aid nor detract from either team's style. I feel Quins will need to keep the ball tight in hand until an opportunity for quick ball comes, then pile the flankers into the rucks to let Care run it or get it the backs at real pace. Then they should aim to keep the ball alive with proper support and offloads for as long as possible (as we did back in Autumn) until a mismatch inevitably presents. Sarries won't miss upfront tackles often, their defence is too strong, but gaps can still be manipulated and once we are through I would hope we can finish our chances better than we did at HQ 3 months ago. Brown will have to be on it at FB to stop Farrell and Hodgson playing the territory game and if the real Nick Evans turns up, I think this is completely doable. Sarries cannot afford to shut the game down as they have done with so much success prior to the last couple of months.


I have my fingers crossed for Quins to win by 7 but my heart will be in my mouth as I watch this (bizarrely with a contingent of mostly Wasps fans) at Wembley. I cannot wait

I think i'm still in shock.

Can not believe that result. Well done Quins! Some insane defence saw us through in the end and when needed all of the team stepped up, Lowe is definitely edging his way on to the plane to SA, a brilliant try and countless huge tackles.

Suddenly i'm a little more optamistic about the play offs.

One thing about Lowe I've always been impressed by is that he carries and tackles like a much bigger player. That's on top of the Quins flair

He is big Thunor, i've seen him in the gym and he is very built. It doesn't look so pronounced as he's still in proportion though.

He definitely adds that bit of grit in the backs for us, which is funny as you'd expect it to come from JTH but he always seems a bit quieter.

Shame he's another 13 though; we seem to have an abundance ready to roll at 13 for England and then just two 12's.

Turner-Hall has got nearly 2 stone on him but Lowe often carries further and defends harder (possibly because the opponents are expecting it from him and not Lowe)

When ever I watch Turner-Hall he never drives with his legs. In attack he just takes the hit and goes down and in defence he just tries to use his arm/shoulder to wrap the player up.

I imagine when you're as big as he is in the backs it's easy to be lazy and forget about technique and rely on your size.

Marler was pretty good in the scrums wasn't he? Really helps having Kohn pushing in the engine room too. What did you think of Stevens outing in the scrums?

IF Johnson makes his bind Quins generally do ok with their first choice front 5. Glad to see Buchanan doing well so Young.

From an English point of view Sarries scrum seemed to improve with Vunipola coming on which is good.

Stevens is generally quite active in the loose, which means he wins turnovers and gives penalties away. In the scrum he's never been great. I'm hoping Marler (with Corbisiero covering tighthead better than Stevens) or PDJ on the bench.

Wasn't perfect, too many penalties, some very cynical and rightly carded, but a fair result for our defence and the ruthlessness to turn a handful of chances into 3 well-taken tries, showing that we have teeth in attack and defence, and taht we can compete with the best in the backs and the forwards. Buchanan was good aside from one awful awful throw near our line, almost a perfect ball to Saracens' back jumper. The Props scrummaged exceptionally even when our pack was down to 7 men. Kohn added grunt, Robson stood up in the loose, the back row worked well, Care looked good aside form a kick or two before his card and I thought Evans might be getting back to some form before his knock. Clegg replaced him well and all of the backs defended reasonably well (a few gaps showed but the cover defence near the line was magical) and offered a lot in attack. We continue to be greater than the sum of our parts and I feel much better now than a few days ago about these play-offs. Got to fight of Tigers at the Stoop first though, another game we must win to get confidence that we can beat the big teams in the games that matter and Tigers look very dangerous.

Here's where we will really see how Marler and Johnston can scrummage

Stevens' scrummaging is terrible - if he doesn't pick up there's no way he should tour this summer.

Hound of Harrow I certainly disagree with you. I don't think the ref favoured Sarries. He was lenient when it came to Quin's forward passes, last pass for the first try being the most obvious. Arguably at least one forward pass in the build up to one of the others too.

Other than that he had an alright game though.

On balance Quins deserved the win simply because they were more clinical.

I was particularly disappointed by the uncharacteristically awful Saracens defence and huge waste of opportunities in attack. Credit to Quins for putting in some decent tackles but Saracens should have done better.

Another game that Saracens should have really won, certainly with Quins down to 13 men the ball should have been kept securely to go for the winning try.

Agree that Stevens is awful. A penalty machine for the opposition.

Quins really exploited areas where key players were missing.

Well done Quins. Hopefully we meet you in the AP final.

The cat is amongst the pigeons.

Tigers could easily finish 2nd now. Two tough games to come, but Leicester have nothing to fear from either. Then Barf at home....

Equo Troiano easily finish 2nd? Your haughty attitude could well be your downfall.

Quins and Saints will not make things easy for you. Do you think they are going to quiver in fear of Leicester? I doubt it.

beshocked wrote:Equo Troiano easily finish 2nd? Your haughty attitude could well be your downfall.

Quins and Saints will not make things easy for you. Do you think they are going to quiver in fear of Leicester? I doubt it.

There, there. You'll get over the weekend. Eventually.

There you go again proving me right!

I am over it now. Simply another game that Saracens should have really won.

Big Heineken game coming up.

It's hardly doom and gloom - still 2nd. We should still be in the playoff mix.

Quins really showing themselves to be worthy title contenders. Best of luck against Toulon.

Always want English sides to do well in Europe.

If Tigers have aspirations of the top two then they might have to play damn sight better than they have been doing. The defence and ball retention against LI and Worcester was not good and will be just the thing Quins will feed off. Hopefully the return of Harrison from injury will limit Grindal's influence on proceedings as we'll need to be far more snappy at the base.

I though Sarries were badly missing Barritt and Burger, there was none of the usual Sarries pressure on 10 and 12 and that allowed Quins a lot of freedom to move the ball. The Sarries line speed was uncharacteristically slow as well, which allowed the Quins forwards to make the gain line with almost every carry. The attacking play was very lateral and although, Short and Goode did well to take the ball up that needed to happen a pass or two earlier but Farrell and Wyles just looked out of place. Sarries need for a proper OC exposed once again.

Quins need to tighten up on their discipline, if they spend that long down players against a team with a better scrum than Sarries then they'll concede an awful lot of tries. Sarries inability to win the scrummaging battle is what cost them the game, that area will not be a weakness for Tigers and Saints.

beshocked wrote:There you go again proving me right!

Er....no. Not really.

Sam I always like to hear your thoughts on matters.

I don't want to blame our loss on injuries. The players on the pitch should have been good enough to win.

Yes the backrow missed Saull,Burger and Brown, the frontrow missed Smit and Gill and the centres missed Barritt but that's irrelevant. Maybe they were a factor but it's all if and buts.

Really dreading the visit of the star studded Clermont.

Absolutely agree about Sarries needing a true outside centre. I have been saying that for some time! Also I have been critical of the Saracens scrum which needs strengthening. I agree with you now that Stevens is no longer good enough.


Also another point you might not be happy with Leicester's performances but you have been getting the results.

Beshocked

Quiver in fear? Definitely not but you have to admit that both teams would want to prevent Tigers from getting a home semi final if possible. The last couple of games have been very frustrating to watch with inaccuracy in the passing, poor decision making and defence a bit all over the place (especially against LI), though at least there was some quick ball when Harrison came on, the difference between him and Grindal was incredible. As Sam said, they will have to play a lot better than they have been doing. That being said, they seem to be regaining that knack of winning and when all else fails they have a scrum that has the ability to take over a game in the premiership, which together make them a very difficult proposition, especially at Welford Road.

Killer938 I say quiver in fear because that's the perception I get from Equo Troiano. He believes all should bow down to Leicester.

I just don't understand all the strange Leicester mood swings.

On one side you have the deludedly optimistic Equo Troiano who thinks that all sides will fall by the wayside as Leicester sweep all before them.

On the other you have the likes of you,Sam and LondonTiger who are worried,nervous and highly critical of Leicester despite picking up try bonus points against London Irish and Worcester.

Best to be in the middle.

Leicester are a good side who could well beat both Quins and Saints but equally could lose to both.

beshocked wrote:Killer938 I say quiver in fear because that's the perception I get from Equo Troiano. He believes all should bow down to Leicester.

Actually, I don't, you're making things up. Again. I said Tigers should finish 2nd which is not only a possibility, its quite likely. So i'm not sure how you think I've intimated that all the other teams should be bowing down.

No you said that finishing 2nd is all but guaranteed. Essentially you believe that Quins and Saints will simply roll over.

My point is you should not underestimate other sides.

I thought Saracens would beat Quins but I was wrong. On the day Quins were more clinical and deservedly won.

Yeh I know where you were coming from, its all good.

I think generally Tigers fans are in the middle these days as recent performances, bar the last couple, have been good. Any time you concede 30points though, you know your defence hasn't been what you would hope for.

beshocked wrote:No you said that finishing 2nd is all but guaranteed. Essentially you believe that Quins and Saints will simply roll over.

My point is you should not underestimate other sides.

I thought Saracens would beat Quins but I was wrong. On the day Quins were more clinical and deservedly won.

What I actually said is this:

Tigers could easily finish 2nd now

Which is a statement of fact. At no time did I say that finishing 2nd is all but guaranteed. I do not underestimate the other teams. Tigers are playing well within their means and are winning, as I said, Tigers will not fear travelling to these places, and why should they, they're the form team and are capable of much, much better rugby. I certainly wouldn't expect them to implode so if they can be joint second playing like this, there are several tangible reasons to be optimistic.

Delusion it is not.

On the other you have the likes of you,Sam and LondonTiger who are worried,nervous and highly critical of Leicester despite picking up try bonus points against London Irish and Worcester.

Had LI had a scrum and if Worcester had not committed ritual suicide (random change of tactics and incredible RC for their linch pin) then we would have lost both. It's the tail end of the season we want to be tightening our game up for a big finish. It's constructive criticism.

Yes the backrow missed Saull,Burger and Brown, the frontrow missed Smit and Gill and the centres missed Barritt but that's irrelevant. Maybe they were a factor but it's all if and buts.

Really dreading the visit of the star studded Clermont.

Clermont are good but there are weaknesses in that team. Barritt will be the most important player for you guys. He shuts down the 12 channel and forces the opposition to go wide fast and risk a man and ball hit or interception out wide or to keep it tight where Sarries like it. Fofana is what gets the Clermont line going, if Barritt can hammer him early and often then the Clermont backline will not function and they'll resort to a power game with frequent kicking. That will suit Sarries down to the ground.

Absolutely agree about Sarries needing a true outside centre. I have been saying that for some time! Also I have been critical of the Saracens scrum which needs strengthening. I agree with you now that Stevens is no longer good enough.

I'm still mystified why they chose to go all out to get Ashton rather than Mullan. A winger (even an intelligent off the shoulder runner) will not be worth as much to them as a technically good scrummager who can mix it in the loose. Smit and Stevens are not particularly good in the scrum but Mullan and Nieto would have been a partnership to anchor your set piece woth Vunipola developing nicely. Sarries still have Powell and Tomkins on the books, any chance of seeing more of those this season?

Barritt can definitely shut Fofana down. He shackled him well enough when they faced in the recent England vs France game.

Absolutely agree about Ashton and Mullan. I really wanted us to bid for Richie Gray too.

I hope we see more of Powell and Tomkins but increasingly unlikely for the latter, possible for the former.

I think Saracens need to bring back into the fold Cobus Visagie who could really help our scrummaging as a coach/technical man.

Can't understand Gray's decision to go to Sale at all Beshocked, he could have gone to any team and why he chose them is a mystery to me (no offence to Sale fans).

Back to the Wembley game; I thought Lowe was fantastic, and was hugely impressed. As someone's already said, the most impressive thing about him is how he punches above his weight constantly in attack and defence. Very good player, and seems to have a good attitude too. Robson impressed me also, especially his excellent tackle on the far right touchline -was it Short he took out?

Thought Marler's scrummaging was good, and Robshaw continually impresses with his work rate.

Sarries used their bench well, and their young backrow players stepped up to the mark in the midst of the club's injury crisis.

Thoroughly enjoyable game, and a great atmosphere!

I think Saracens need to bring back into the fold Cobus Visagie who could really help our scrummaging as a coach/technical man

If Rowntree can't rescue Stevens scrummaging ability then I'm not sure anyone can.

Gray's decision to go to Sale was an odd one but maybe he has bought into the idea the club are developing well. With Cips on the way and Peel looking likely to stay that's a good half back option, there's talent in the front row and a half decen backrow. If they can get some balance in the centres they could do well.

Agree with most of that bluestonevedder.

True Sam. Sale aren't developing well at the moment though! Gray might not even get HC rugby which he would have been guaranteed at numerous clubs.

The only thing I can think of is that he must be getting a very juicy salary.

I think that's a given. He will be the marquee signing at Sale and I'd expect his salary to be around £250k or more. A big money signing, I can only think that Sale got in there and tied up the deal quickly before his agent had chance to generate more interest in the player. Let's face it half of France would have happily bid for him as would several other AP clubs, I bet Leinster would have been interested in getting in on the action as well.

Wouldn't have minded him at Tigers if we are set to lose Deacon to more injuries. A Gray/Parling combo would have been nice but I doubt we'd have ever got him under the salary cap.

Think he'll be on a hell of a salary, and agree with your estimate Sam.

Regarding Stevens I think he's a waste of a bench option for England personally. Rated him before his time out, but I think the game's moved on a lot in that time. He looks unfit and out of shape. Anonymous in the loose and gives away silly penalties.

beshocked wrote:Hound of Harrow I certainly disagree with you. I don't think the ref favoured Sarries. He was lenient when it came to Quin's forward passes, last pass for the first try being the most obvious. Arguably at least one forward pass in the build up to one of the others too.

Other than that he had an alright game though.

On balance Quins deserved the win simply because they were more clinical.

I was particularly disappointed by the uncharacteristically awful Saracens defence and huge waste of opportunities in attack. Credit to Quins for putting in some decent tackles but Saracens should have done better.

Another game that Saracens should have really won, certainly with Quins down to 13 men the ball should have been kept securely to go for the winning try.

Agree that Stevens is awful. A penalty machine for the opposition.

Quins really exploited areas where key players were missing.

Well done Quins. Hopefully we meet you in the AP final.

I agree that the referee was not kind to Sarries but he wasn't kind to Quins either. He let both teams get away with a fair bit - we were cheating a bit more so we got penalised a bit more. He missed a lot but the proportion of penalties looked about right. Agree that Sarries should have won, nearly had a heart-attack in the last 10 minutes. Good luck against Clermont, I agree that Barritt will make a big difference in defence (the tackling for our 2nd try was shocking, sorry)

are Saracens going to have a full strengh team for the QF?

ASM form is worrying: they were totally dominated by Biarritz in the scrum and their line out was dreadful (they would have still won if the ref didnt see an alleged forward pass).
they have some prop ongoing issues , Parra caught an injury and if he misses the game, ASM chances are gone given how poor the SH replacement is (really strange for a club like clermont not to have a decent back-up 9 as it is not the most difficult thing to find in France!).

whocares wrote:are Saracens going to have a full strengh team for the QF?

ASM form is worrying: they were totally dominated by Biarritz in the scrum and their line out was dreadful (they would have still won if the ref didnt see an alleged forward pass).
they have some prop ongoing issues , Parra caught an injury and if he misses the game, ASM chances are gone given how poor the SH replacement is (really strange for a club like clermont not to have a decent back-up 9 as it is not the most difficult thing to find in France!).

They will still be missing key back row players but they will have a full-strength backline with Barritt back. The key missing players will be Brown, Burger and arguably Saull, so if ASM attack the breakdown Sarries could be in trouble. I just feel that Saracens need to take the game by the scruff of the neck. Playing calmly and taking the points and territory as if there were no pressure is all very well but against teams that can get 1 chance to score and take it, they need to attack more or they will suddenly be chasing a game and forcing the pace of play which they are not suited for. They need a medium between careful territory game and frantic attacking finish, not the polarity we saw on Saturday

Chequeredjersey I agree with that. Btw I don't blame the ref for our loss - as you say his actions probably balanced out. We had our opportunities but didn't take them. Quins did.

Good luck vs Toulon.


whocares nope. Not had a full strength team for some time.

Barritt should be back which will bolster the team.

Saull,Brown and Burger all have long term injuries so our backrow is vulnerable.

Smit and Gill are likely to miss out once again meaning at loosehead Stevens or Vunipola will have to start.

I expect Clermont to hurt us in the scrum and backrow. Our lineout is strong though.

The Clermont scrum isn't that awesome Beshocked. Tigers pushed them all over the place in Clermont and at Welford Road when Clermont had reinforced Tigers still came out on top, although it was much closer.

Keep it close and get a kicking game going and you should be alright, though a change of loosehead might be an idea. Going to be close but Sarries seem to prefer it that way.

Clermont scrum against leicester (and ulster) was certainly better than what they showed last weekend. Saracens shoudl have the upper hand there.
what was interesting against biarritz is that they are trying not to commit too many players in the rucks when defending which would suggest an attempt to minimise the penalty count while putting more pressure on the opponents outhalves which could be interestign against a well drilled and structured team such as saracens.

Whocares, how are Toulon going in the T14? Quins have to go to them soon for their Euro game.

I've heard their home ground is very intimidating for away teams but do they actually have a good squad and do they play well together?

http://tag.huggity.com/fanpic/012-2012-aviva-wembley/?lookat=126.57918018719728%2C-4.733134191243284%2C6&referer=fb

I don't know how they are playing but at full strength they can put out a team like this:

Hayman
Bruno
Frou
Botha (Bakkies that is)
Shaw
Lobbe
Armitage
van Niekirk
Henjak
Wilkinson
Palisson
Bastareaud
Willie Mason (was great at League, no idea what he's like in Union!)
Rooney (ditto, but not quite as good)
Lapyere (don't know him)

Benching the likes of Schofield, Giteau and Pretorius, so it's a pretty formidable team

They are in third place. Lost at the weekend, but rested a lot of players. Last time I looked Hayman was sruggling to get the starting berth ahead of a Georgian prop (Zirakhashvili maybe)

Botha and Shaw in the second row is not the kind of combo I want our pack up against. Robshaw vs Armitage will be veeerrrrry interesting too

yappysnap wrote:Whocares, how are Toulon going in the T14? Quins have to go to them soon for their Euro game.

I've heard their home ground is very intimidating for away teams but do they actually have a good squad and do they play well together?

I think they are strong - better than in a recent past : the team is starting to look as something else than an addition of talented individuals. Bakkies Botha is getting better game after game, Giteau has settled well at 12 and Wilko had some great games recently. Even Bastaraud is getting fitter.
Stade Mayol is the hotest atmosphere I have ever been to rugbywise. can be frightening.

being out of the HC, they have a good chance of winning the top14 this year so dont think they will put a huge effort int AC...

ChequeredJersey wrote:Botha and Shaw in the second row is not the kind of combo I want our pack up against. Robshaw vs Armitage will be veeerrrrry interesting too

both Botha and Shaw are not be qualified for the AC. looks better for the Quins.

toulon team could be as follow ...

Lewis-Roberts - Bruno - Hayman / Krubriashvili
Samson - Suta /Schofield
Armitage - VNK - El Abd
Tillous - Wilko
Palisson - Bastaraud - Giteau - Smith
Lapeyre (too many non EU qualified players on the field for rooney to play)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC_Toulonnais

there's the squad from wiki. A good depth of players to choose from with a scattering of household names, not as many as you'd first have thought though. A backrow of Lobbe, Armitage, Van Niekerk is pretty awesome.

Fair enough, well it'll be another learning experience for our pack.

It really seems like the Amlin is getting tougher and tougher which is great.

Last season we had to beat Wasps, Munster and Stade Francais to win it, this season we're taking on Toulon with that immense squad and then some other big teams if we do get through. Arguably it'll be tougher then some HC run-ins.

I didn't get to watch the game, but the stats certainly make interesting reading.

They show that Quins had 75% of the possession and scored 3 tries to 1, but suggest that Saracens was playing more of the rugby. 100 runs with the ball making 400m compared to Quins 89 runs making 261m, 8 clean breaks to 4, 13 defenders beaten to 8, 155 passes to 89, 10 offloads to 5. Saracens conceded far less penalties, 7 to Quins 15 (who also had 3 men binned), and had the better successful kick percentage to make use of Quins' mistakes, 83% to 57%. They won all their scrums (7) and lineouts (14), whereas Quins lost 2 lineouts. Tackle success rate was pretty similar, 91% for Saracens, 88% for Quins. Then you come to the area that (combined with the possession) must have really let them down, conceding 15 turnovers whilst Quins only conceded 4.

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/match/142599.html

That possession stat from ESPNScrum, looks like a miscalculation on their part. Certainly if the other stats are accurate.

Mind you, apparently Tigers had 88% possession
http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/match/142597.html

While Northampton had 100% possession
http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/match/142596.html


I guess we can indeed conclude that the possession calculation used is not accurate

No not at all accurate. Bath did attempt some attacks as fruitless as they were and Worcester did manage a couple of good sustained attacks towards the end of the game against Tigers.

The stats definitely don't tell the full story.

I'm also not sure I believe those possession stats. Given that Quins made fewer yards, and Sarries made fewer tackles, the game would have had to have been in slow motion for Quins to have 75% of the ball - unless Quins are credited with the time taken for kicks and scrums on their possession.

The match was a great advert for the game. Both sides were playing attacking rugby. The big differences were that Quins' finishing, in both attack and defence was materially better than Sarries.

Quins' defensive approach looks like it was based on a very fast line speed that carried with it a calculated risk of line breaks, but with the players prepped to make cover tackles. The line speed forced Sarries to rush and I think contributed to the number of bad passes they made, and the quality of the Quins scramble defence was superb - how often do you see a 22 stone prop catching and tap tackling a fresh back rower from behind?

By contrast, Quins played a more structured attacking game that I think was designed to exploit Sarries' relative defensive weakness in the back row and at 10-12-13. Farrell made 11 tackles - second only to Robshaw - but I think Sarries really felt the lack of Barritt, Burger and Saull. Quins played multiple phases going up the middle and then went wide when the defence was pulled out of shape.