"Its Amazing"

This is how Neil Harman the tennis journalist for The Times reported Rafael Nadal's withdrawal from Miami with knee tendonitis.

We think that Nadal has pulled out!!!! Amazing situation

http://twitter.com/#!/neilharmantimes

You can almost hear him rubbing his hands in glee. Murray gets a walkover into the final. What a great thing for British Tennis. Pfttt! Is this really what the sport has come to...

I see he has since said: "I appear to have upset a few folk by saying that Rafa pulling out on KB was an amazing situation. Not the most apt choice of word. Apologies"

What is so wrong with calling a late withdrawal from a big semi final an "Amazing situation" ??

"You can almost hear him rubbing his hands in glee."

What?? How do you work that out? I'm a big Murray fan and I'm gutted they won't be playing!

You're way too paranoid.

Danny_1982 wrote:What is so wrong with calling a late withdrawal from a big semi final an "Amazing situation" ??

"You can almost hear him rubbing his hands in glee."

What?? How do you work that out? I'm a big Murray fan and I'm gutted they won't be playing!

You're way too paranoid.

I'm sure Murray's mega happy he doesn't have to play Nadal. Anyone else would be.
As for Neil Harman & the rest in media, I''m not particularly fond of Twitter, I find it a bit dumb and vulgar. It has reduced people to I don't know how many words per sentence as a for of expression.

It's their bread and butter and they often degrade themselves posting bombastic stuff in order to be the "first" in announcing just about any tripe.

Look at that Llodra incident in IW last week, all that huff and puff just because some Canadian journalist understood Llodra's French and couldn't contain his shock and horror but had to spread the dirtiest gory details out to the entire world and crucify the guy.


Don't get me wrong I absolutely love internet and all it has brought to being able to enjoy tennis more deeply and actively, but Twitter is where I draw the line.

Twitter is at its best in marketing and promotion. That is how we get all the Q&A's on v2 etc.

We had an article from our wrestling section RT'd by a wrestler the other day, it went out to 175,000 followers, with 17 further RT's and 14 favourites. The article on here got over 1,000 views within 20 mins. Hopefully something else in the section catches their eye and they join up.

"I'm sure Murray's mega happy he doesn't have to play Nadal. Anyone else would be"

Actually I think he'll be very disappointed. He looked gutted in the press conference. For Murray to get where he wants to go he needs to start beating the top players regularly, and this is an opportunity lost to do just that against the guy he has the worst H2H against.

Danny_1982 wrote:"I'm sure Murray's mega happy he doesn't have to play Nadal. Anyone else would be"

Actually I think he'll be very disappointed. He looked gutted in the press conference. For Murray to get where he wants to go he needs to start beating the top players regularly, and this is an opportunity lost to do just that against the guy he has the worst H2H against.

please tell me you 're not serious !

noleisthebest wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:"I'm sure Murray's mega happy he doesn't have to play Nadal. Anyone else would be"

Actually I think he'll be very disappointed. He looked gutted in the press conference. For Murray to get where he wants to go he needs to start beating the top players regularly, and this is an opportunity lost to do just that against the guy he has the worst H2H against.

please tell me you 're not serious !

Well it depends I suppose, if he was psyching himself up for the match, thinking that he was going to win, its weird when you hear you're not going to play after all. Having said that doesn't he always look gutted in press conferences, even if he's won a tournament

HarpoMars wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:"I'm sure Murray's mega happy he doesn't have to play Nadal. Anyone else would be"

Actually I think he'll be very disappointed. He looked gutted in the press conference. For Murray to get where he wants to go he needs to start beating the top players regularly, and this is an opportunity lost to do just that against the guy he has the worst H2H against.

please tell me you 're not serious !

Well it depends I suppose, if he was psyching himself up for the match, thinking that he was going to win, its weird when you hear you're not going to play after all. Having said that doesn't he always look gutted in press conferences, even if he's won a tournament

yes, I won't repeat that neat little two-word phrase he was often described with on the old 606

Why wouldn't I be serious? You think top players don't want to play in top matches?

Are you being serious??

"Well it depends I suppose, if he was psyching himself up for the match, thinking that he was going to win, its weird when you hear you're not going to play after all. Having said that doesn't he always look gutted in press conferences, even if he's won a tournament"

Ha, very true.

I think Andy has a mixed feeling. It's not all bad nor all good for him.

Tenez wrote:I think Andy has a mixed feeling. It's not all bad nor all good for him.

I agree with Tenez

Danny_1982 wrote:Why wouldn't I be serious? You think top players don't want to play in top matches?

Are you being serious??

This reminds me of that funny situation when "poor" people win lottery and then keep going to their low paid jobs in order to prove they haven't "changed"....

I don't think Murray will have any feelings on the matter at all. He will just spend time working with Lendl (?) on the practice court, and think about improving a few things before the final.

BTW, another reason I think Murray will be cheering is that even with the "dodgy" knee, Nadal would still beat him.

noleisthebest wrote:BTW, another reason I think Murray will be cheering is that even with the "dodgy" knee, Nadal would still beat him.

NISTB have you become 'hawkeye' in disguise or have you forgotten that Andy has a fairly decent record against Rafa on hard courts as illustrated last time they me

Or do you worry that Nole only always beats Nadal in finals?

banbrotam wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:BTW, another reason I think Murray will be cheering is that even with the "dodgy" knee, Nadal would still beat him.

NISTB have you become 'hawkeye' in disguise or have you forgotten that Andy has a fairly decent record against Rafa on hard courts as illustrated last time they me

Or do you worry that Nole only always beats Nadal in finals?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

noleisthebest wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:What is so wrong with calling a late withdrawal from a big semi final an "Amazing situation" ??

"You can almost hear him rubbing his hands in glee."

What?? How do you work that out? I'm a big Murray fan and I'm gutted they won't be playing!

You're way too paranoid.

I'm sure Murray's mega happy he doesn't have to play Nadal. Anyone else would be.
As for Neil Harman & the rest in media, I''m not particularly fond of Twitter, I find it a bit dumb and vulgar. It has reduced people to I don't know how many words per sentence as a for of expression.

It's their bread and butter and they often degrade themselves posting bombastic stuff in order to be the "first" in announcing just about any tripe.

Look at that Llodra incident in IW last week, all that huff and puff just because some Canadian journalist understood Llodra's French and couldn't contain his shock and horror but had to spread the dirtiest gory details out to the entire world and crucify the guy.


Don't get me wrong I absolutely love internet and all it has brought to being able to enjoy tennis more deeply and actively, but Twitter is where I draw the line.

I agree. Twitter has gotten more people in trouble than it's worth. I cannot bring myself to get a twitter account, although my career may require me to shortly.

noleisthebest wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:What is so wrong with calling a late withdrawal from a big semi final an "Amazing situation" ??

"You can almost hear him rubbing his hands in glee."

What?? How do you work that out? I'm a big Murray fan and I'm gutted they won't be playing!

You're way too paranoid.

I'm sure Murray's mega happy he doesn't have to play Nadal. Anyone else would be.
As for Neil Harman & the rest in media, I''m not particularly fond of Twitter, I find it a bit dumb and vulgar. It has reduced people to I don't know how many words per sentence as a for of expression.

It's their bread and butter and they often degrade themselves posting bombastic stuff in order to be the "first" in announcing just about any tripe.

Look at that Llodra incident in IW last week, all that huff and puff just because some Canadian journalist understood Llodra's French and couldn't contain his shock and horror but had to spread the dirtiest gory details out to the entire world and crucify the guy.


Don't get me wrong I absolutely love internet and all it has brought to being able to enjoy tennis more deeply and actively, but Twitter is where I draw the line.

So, let's get this straight. Say you were watching Djokocic vs Cilic. You're cheering Nole on. Cilic makes eye contact with you and calls you a Serbian whore. Not just once but several times.

That'd be just fine in your book, yes?

noleisthebest wrote:... Look at that Llodra incident in IW last week ... had to ... crucify the guy. ...

That seems like an over reaction, but hey what do I know - the modern tv audience needs to be satisfied I suppose.

hawkeye wrote:... You can almost hear him rubbing his hands in glee. Murray gets a walkover into the final. ...

I hope he washes his hands afterwards.

What's amazing is people choose to blame the victim in the Llodra incident. I suppose it's easier than admitting your own bigotry.

noleisthebest wrote:... Look at that Llodra incident in IW last week, all that huff and puff just because some Canadian journalist understood Llodra's French and couldn't contain his shock and horror but had to spread the dirtiest gory details out to the entire world ...

To be fair to the Canadian journalist if he just passed on through Twitter what Llodra said - the "dirtiest gory details" would be attributable to Llodra rather than the journalist.

Yeah it's somehow everyone else's fault - the woman who was insulted, the journalist who reported it, tennis fans for taking an interest in the story. But the poor little racist's feelings must be protected at all costs.

reckoner wrote:Yeah it's somehow everyone else's fault - the woman who was insulted, the journalist who reported it, tennis fans for taking an interest in the story. But the poor little racist's feelings must be protected at all costs.

Using her nationality in an insult doesnt make a man rascist my book. Nations aren't races.

bogbrush wrote:

reckoner wrote:Yeah it's somehow everyone else's fault - the woman who was insulted, the journalist who reported it, tennis fans for taking an interest in the story. But the poor little racist's feelings must be protected at all costs.

Using her nationality in an insult doesnt make a man rascist my book. Nations aren't races.

Rubbish, Alex Lee is Korean American and not Chinese.

So he wasn't using her nationality to insult her merely her appearance.

Definitely racist.

Furthermore considering their history calling a Chinese person Japanese or vice versa can cause great offence (I've seen this mistake being made up close - a big faux pas). I assume there is probably something similar when saying a Korean is a Chinese person or vice versa. Calling a Chinese American, Chinese might also cause offence. In this case the person was Korean American.

Nore Staat wrote:Furthermore considering their history calling a Chinese person Japanese or vice versa can cause great offence (I've seen this mistake being made up close - a big faux pas). I assume there is probably something similar when saying a Korean is a Chinese person or vice versa. Calling a Chinese American, Chinese might also cause offence. In this case the person was Korean American.

Exactly!

bogbrush wrote:

reckoner wrote:Yeah it's somehow everyone else's fault - the woman who was insulted, the journalist who reported it, tennis fans for taking an interest in the story. But the poor little racist's feelings must be protected at all costs.

Using her nationality in an insult doesnt make a man rascist my book.

Im sorry, but I completely disagree.

An insult on its own is an insult.
An insult based on or including nationality or race is a racist remark.
People who make racist remarks are racists.

Hmmm.... I was driving in Brazil recently - which is challenging to say the least - and misunderstood a curiously designed junction. I thought I had right of way but didn't. By pulling out the junction ground to a halt as I blocked the cars that had right of way.

I was wearing an England football top (something I don't usually do, but it was a gift given to me by my gf's family the day before). During the ten seconds or so I was blocking traffic, a guy in the car behind me shouted: "Just move!!... f'ing English!!"

Now, I didn't think i was being racially abused. I just think someone had used a point of reference (my top) to shout some general abuse at me. Had he used my nationality to structure an insult (pale skin, bad teeth, hooligan... or any other negative English stereotype you can think of) then I would have perhaps considered it racist.

Llodra was out of order... An idiot even. But racist? I'm not so sure. I'm not defending him, but he used someone's appearance (wrongly, as it turned out) to make reference to them. If he'd have said "f'ing woman" would he have been guilty of sexism?

Danny_1982 wrote:Hmmm.... I was driving in Brazil recently - which is challenging to say the least - and misunderstood a curiously designed junction. I thought I had right of way but didn't. By pulling out the junction ground to a halt as I blocked the cars that had right of way.

I was wearing an England football top (something I don't usually do, but it was a gift given to me by my gf's family the day before). During the ten seconds or so I was blocking traffic, a guy in the car behind me shouted: "Just move!!... f'ing English!!"

Now, I didn't think i was being racially abused. I just think someone had used a point of reference (my top) to shout some general abuse at me. Had he used my nationality to structure an insult (pale skin, bad teeth, hooligan... or any other negative English stereotype you can think of) then I would have perhaps considered it racist.

Llodra was out of order... An idiot even. But racist? I'm not so sure. I'm not defending him, but he used someone's appearance (wrongly, as it turned out) to make reference to them. If he'd have said "f'ing woman" would he have been guilty of sexism?

Yes.

Do you think I was being racially abused Gav?

Danny, you are missing the point, by your own criteria Llodra was indeed racist. If he had called the spectator a Korean American whore instead he could perhaps be said to be a misogynist instead.

Gav wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

reckoner wrote:Yeah it's somehow everyone else's fault - the woman who was insulted, the journalist who reported it, tennis fans for taking an interest in the story. But the poor little racist's feelings must be protected at all costs.

Using her nationality in an insult doesnt make a man rascist my book.

Im sorry, but I completely disagree.

An insult on its own is an insult.
An insult based on or including nationality or race is a racist remark.
People who make racist remarks are racists.

Thanks Gav, exactly agree with this.

Danny_1982 wrote:Do you think I was being racially abused Gav?

Reverse the roles Danny. You are in the car behind and its an American in front blocking the traffic. Would you shout f'ing Yankees?

As soon as race/nationality is brought into an insult, it is a racist remark. So yes, he racially abused you.

reckoner - I am admittedly playing devils advocate a little, but are you saying the fact he got her nationality wrong made it worse?

And are you suggesting that was a deliberate act, rather than an act of stupidity or ignorance?

He didn't get her nationality wrong, he tried to insult her the worst way available to him. So, yes to both questions.

No, I wouldn't shout it Gav..... But I wouldn't categorise the guy that shouted at me a racist either. I guess I'm a bit more tolerant, perhaps too tolerant.

I reiterate, I was playing devils advocate a little. I'm not defending what Llodra did.

All these journalists have relationships with the Murdoch empire and Piers Morgan so it's no surprise they always churn out rubbish.

Danny_1982 wrote:No, I wouldn't shout it Gav..... But I wouldn't categorise the guy that shouted at me a racist either. I guess I'm a bit more tolerant, perhaps too tolerant.

I reiterate, I was playing devils advocate a little. I'm not defending what Llodra did.

So you're condemning it then?

Of course I am. Regardless of how seriously you take the comments, he shouldn't be saying things like that to people in the crowd.

Danny_1982 wrote:Of course I am. Regardless of how seriously you take the comments, he shouldn't be saying things like that to people in the crowd.

Glad to hear it!

Apparently it isn't his first time... how depressingly unsurprising.

To be fair to Neil Harman he is pretty balanced generally. I think the choice of word is unfortunate, but it was a surprising turn of events and I think he was expressing incredulity rather than glee.

reckoner wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:What is so wrong with calling a late withdrawal from a big semi final an "Amazing situation" ??

"You can almost hear him rubbing his hands in glee."

What?? How do you work that out? I'm a big Murray fan and I'm gutted they won't be playing!

You're way too paranoid.

I'm sure Murray's mega happy he doesn't have to play Nadal. Anyone else would be.
As for Neil Harman & the rest in media, I''m not particularly fond of Twitter, I find it a bit dumb and vulgar. It has reduced people to I don't know how many words per sentence as a for of expression.

It's their bread and butter and they often degrade themselves posting bombastic stuff in order to be the "first" in announcing just about any tripe.

Look at that Llodra incident in IW last week, all that huff and puff just because some Canadian journalist understood Llodra's French and couldn't contain his shock and horror but had to spread the dirtiest gory details out to the entire world and crucify the guy.


Don't get me wrong I absolutely love internet and all it has brought to being able to enjoy tennis more deeply and actively, but Twitter is where I draw the line.

So, let's get this straight. Say you were watching Djokocic vs Cilic. You're cheering Nole on. Cilic makes eye contact with you and calls you a Serbian whore. Not just once but several times.

That'd be just fine in your book, yes?

sorry Reckoner, only saw your comment now.

If Cilic or any other player said stg like that to me, they get it all back with interest from me in a much smarter way, I am one tough cookie .People these days are so spineless and thin-skinned, it winds me up no end to see incidents like this.

Most of us here don't have a clue what exactly happened but some are dangerously ready to throw the first stone.

Reckoner, I am afraid you are wrong on this one. Not that Llodra was right either but "putain de chinoise" doesn't mean Chinese whore.

It means morea kind of "Bloody chinese". It's certainly not as bad as you make it sound.

And you still don;t know what this girl did to get that out of Llodra.

Tenez, I am not making it sound like anything. It's what he said.

Are you seriously saying that repeatedly looking a stranger full in the face and calling her putain is the same as muttering it under your breath as a general exclamation? My other half is from Montreal and she doesn't think the meaning, given the context, is as innocuous as "bloody".

Also, apparently what set Llodra off was Alex Lee shouting - are you ready for this, it is quite shocking - "Come on Ernie!" Clearly she had it coming!

f**king Chinese is a translation.

It's also now a permanent feature of Llodra's wiki page - section 7.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha%C3%ABl_Llodra#Racism_incident

Reckoner - I am from Paris like Llodra I know my French. Trust me. A whore is much more likely to be "Pute" or even "sale pute" and not Putain...though putain can also mean pute, it's used every other word by some people like fuc*ing can be here in London. But the reason I used the word "bloody" is that it's even less vulgar than the F word.

As I said, he should not have said it but we should be spending our energies at fighting much bigger crimes than little spats like that said under pressure.

The reason apparently he was annoyed is that she was constatly moving and talking during play.

I know little about this incident but a paying audience shouldn't be insulted by those they have paid to see. Arguing about how mild or vulger the insult was misses the point...

Tenez. What are the bigger crimes your saving your energy for? I have a sneaky suspicion these big crimes involve the positioning of water bottles...