"Its Amazing"

First topic message reminder :

This is how Neil Harman the tennis journalist for The Times reported Rafael Nadal's withdrawal from Miami with knee tendonitis.

We think that Nadal has pulled out!!!! Amazing situation

http://twitter.com/#!/neilharmantimes

You can almost hear him rubbing his hands in glee. Murray gets a walkover into the final. What a great thing for British Tennis. Pfttt! Is this really what the sport has come to...

What would someone have to say for it to be classed as racism if the person doing the constant moving and talking during the play was
a) a "white" woman.
b) a "black" woman.
c) a "yellowish" woman.

But on a separate note: Does the tennis player have recourse to the umpire if there is someone moving around during play or is talking (loudly over the phone???) during play, and can the umpire ask for that person to be ejected? Are spectators asked to turn off their mobile phones during play?

Nore Staat wrote:What would someone have to say for it to be classed as racism if the person doing the constant moving and talking during the play was
a) a "white" woman.
b) a "black" woman.
c) a "yellowish" woman.

Any personally identifiable information based on gender, race, ethnicity, which is used to abuse or slur someone is racial abuse.

Nore Staat wrote:But on a separate note: Does the tennis player have recourse to the umpire if there is someone moving around during play or is talking (loudly over the phone???) during play, and can the umpire ask for that person to be ejected?

Yes. IIRC, there were spectators ejected by security in USO 2011.

Nore Staat wrote: Are spectators asked to turn off their mobile phones during play?

Not yet, but very soon, USO may be the first one to do it. It is interesting that spectators need to carry such a device and use it when their primary objective is to watch a Tennis match, rather than talk on the phone. UTube is based on existence of a device called the 'smartphone'.

hawkeye wrote:I know little about this incident but a paying audience shouldn't be insulted by those they have paid to see. Arguing about how mild or vulger the insult was misses the point...

Tenez. What are the bigger crimes your saving your energy for? I have a sneaky suspicion these big crimes involve the positioning of water bottles...

Your ticket gives you right to watch and applaud not disrupt the players.

Tenez wrote:Reckoner - I am from Paris like Llodra I know my French. Trust me. A whore is much more likely to be "Pute" or even "sale pute" and not Putain...though putain can also mean pute, it's used every other word by some people like fuc*ing can be here in London. But the reason I used the word "bloody" is that it's even less vulgar than the F word.

As I said, he should not have said it but we should be spending our energies at fighting much bigger crimes than little spats like that said under pressure.

The reason apparently he was annoyed is that she was constatly moving and talking during play.

I know a little French too, Tenez. What you are overlooking is that Llodra wasn't in Paris was he? So why is it up to the person being insulted to accord him all this leeway and assume the least offensive translation possible? As I said from the context - making eye contact with her and referring to her as "Chinese" suggests that "bloody" is not the appropriate word here and putain was being used literally. My better half is fully Francophone, from Montreal, and isn't nearly as ready to make excuses for Llodra as you seem to be.

Look, I was pretty disgusted by the incident itself, but then various posters whose views of tennis I usually respect came out and immediately started trashing the woman involved, the journalist, the seriousness of the incident - without knowing that much about what had happened and that I found plain disturbing. The presumption of guilt, of being an attention seeker, over-sensitive etc etc etc was immediately cast upon the person who is being racially abused in the first place - how very 70s. I guess it goes to show that knowing a lot about tennis doesn't make you much of an expert in anything else.

To those who complain about political correctness - THIS is why YOU need it - uncivilized cretins like Llodra. Please direct your ire towards him rather than minorities who put up with endless crap that you wouldn't even begin to understand.

Alex Lee plans her holidays around Indian Wells - apparently it's the 6th time in a row she's been to the tournament. Clearly she loves her tennis. She and any spectator have a right to enjoy the game without being racially abused by the players, it's that simple.

It's not about knowing a little French, it's about being Parisian and understanding the meaning and spirit that goes along that slang.

There is no point arguing further as looks like we won't share the same view here. I do not believe Llodra being particularly racist. Many facts woudl prove he isn't.

I more concerned by those dictators of the politically correct than those letting some colored language out.

Tenez wrote:It's not about knowing a little French, it's about being Parisian and understanding the meaning and spirit that goes along that slang.

There is no point arguing further as looks like we won't share the same view here. I do not believe Llodra being particularly racist. Many facts woudl prove he isn't.

I more concerned by those dictators of the politically correct than those letting some colored language out.

Are some of his best friends black?

reckoner wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's not about knowing a little French, it's about being Parisian and understanding the meaning and spirit that goes along that slang.

There is no point arguing further as looks like we won't share the same view here. I do not believe Llodra being particularly racist. Many facts woudl prove he isn't.

I more concerned by those dictators of the politically correct than those letting some colored language out.

Are some of his best friends black?

I have PLENTY of friends in Paris. My downstairs NEIGHBOURS are from Paris. Half our friends in Montreal are from Paris.

reckoner wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's not about knowing a little French, it's about being Parisian and understanding the meaning and spirit that goes along that slang.

There is no point arguing further as looks like we won't share the same view here. I do not believe Llodra being particularly racist. Many facts woudl prove he isn't.

I more concerned by those dictators of the politically correct than those letting some colored language out.

Are some of his best friends black?

Would that be a proof of him being non-racist?

I find this question pretty racist actually as if that was the ultime test?

Tenez wrote:

reckoner wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's not about knowing a little French, it's about being Parisian and understanding the meaning and spirit that goes along that slang.

There is no point arguing further as looks like we won't share the same view here. I do not believe Llodra being particularly racist. Many facts woudl prove he isn't.

I more concerned by those dictators of the politically correct than those letting some colored language out.

Are some of his best friends black?

Would that be a proof of him being non-racist?

I find this question pretty racist actually as if that was the ultime test?

Yes I can see how that might come across to someone who doesn't have cultural experience of the phrase.

"Some of my best friends are black" is a standard trope wheeled out by bigots who perhaps get along well with a couple of people from a minority but see that culture / race is inferior. It's like saying "present company excluded" once someone has said something sexist or racist in mixed company and tries to backpedal.

Looks like Llodra, the ATP and ITF have moved on....We should do the same.

Tenez wrote:Looks like Llodra, the ATP and ITF have moved on....We should do the same.

But that poor woman is still upset. She may never recover sufficiently to be able to attend a live tennis match again...

Sure, but first what are these many facts that prove Llodra is not racist please?

hawkeye wrote:

Tenez wrote:Looks like Llodra, the ATP and ITF have moved on....We should do the same.

But that poor woman is still upset. She may never recover sufficiently to be able to attend a live tennis match again...

ha ha my aching sides.

Oh and apparently what Llodra actually said was "putain foutu chatte chinoise", still think it's just innocuous, Tenez? I'm still waiting for those facts by the way.

Tenez wrote:It's not about knowing a little French, it's about being Parisian and understanding the meaning and spirit that goes along that slang.

There is no point arguing further as looks like we won't share the same view here. I do not believe Llodra being particularly racist. Many facts woudl prove he isn't.

I more concerned by those dictators of the politically correct than those letting some colored language out.

Tenez, I think you're wasting your time here

reckoner wrote:Oh and apparently what Llodra actually said was "putain foutu chatte chinoise", still think it's just innocuous, Tenez? I'm still waiting for those facts by the way.

give it a rest, will you, noone's interested! If you're that bothered, go and sue the guy for ruining your life...

noleisthebest wrote:

reckoner wrote:Oh and apparently what Llodra actually said was "putain foutu chatte chinoise", still think it's just innocuous, Tenez? I'm still waiting for those facts by the way.

give it a rest, will you, noone's interested! If you're that bothered, go and sue the guy for ruining your life...

Yes I suppose we could all take more interest in your poetry instead.

reckoner wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

reckoner wrote:Oh and apparently what Llodra actually said was "putain foutu chatte chinoise", still think it's just innocuous, Tenez? I'm still waiting for those facts by the way.

give it a rest, will you, noone's interested! If you're that bothered, go and sue the guy for ruining your life...

Yes I suppose we could all take more interest in your poetry instead.

Absolutely

reckoner wrote:Oh and apparently what Llodra actually said was "putain foutu chatte chinoise", still think it's just innocuous, Tenez? I'm still waiting for those facts by the way.

If that is what he said and knowing him, it could be a compliment!

Llodra is a nice guy...too nice actually. And as NITB advises, I'm leaving it as that.

Complete lack of a point to make so resort to changing - why Tenez you are just as bad as some of these Rafa fans you continuously rail against!

Has Llodra even apologised?

People always judge before hearing both sides of a story.

Ah yes Llodra's apology.

Well, the tournament director asked him to call the specator and apologise at the time - he refused.

Followed by this:

Llodra did not make matters better for himself during an interview with a reporter from the Chinese news Web site SINA.com, in which the Frenchman attempted to apologize for his remarks.

“My words were not aimed at China,” Llodra began.

“I love Chinese — I can totally make love with a Chinese girl,” he added, before being cut off by the A.T.P. official monitoring the interview. The journalist, who took offense at the remark, said that he did not find Llodra’s apology sincere.

I'm not sure, perhaps this is the Parisian spirit that Tenez was talking about?

Followed by an apology on his own website in which he blamed the tournament organisers for putting his doubles match just after his singles match and claimed his words were distorted by reporters.

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2012/03/14/id-like-to-apologize-llodra/

And last of all the reporter that broke the story tweeted that Alex Barlow Lee had apparently received a handwritten letter from Llodra and a blue Lacoste shirt (lucky her).


ALL of this was of course unnecessary as our very own Tenez has in his possession "many facts" that prove Llodra is not a racist!

It's a fact he is not racist. Why are you going on with that? I think that's the reason he may gave refused to apologised in the first place.

He chose a Congolose (one of his best friend) as a witness for his own wedding. Would a typical racist person would do that?

If he was racist, Monfild and Tsonga woudl have let us know years ago....but they are best friends.

As I said, let it go...

Tenez wrote:It's a fact he is not racist. Why are you going on with that? I think that's the reason he may gave refused to apologised in the first place.

He chose a Congolose (one of his best friend) as a witness for his own wedding. Would a typical racist person would do that?

If he was racist, Monfild and Tsonga woudl have let us know years ago....but they are best friends.

As I said, let it go...

It's a fact because you say so? That's an opinion Tenez, not a fact.

Might it be the case that he's racist when it comes to Asians Tenez?

I'll let it go when you stop making excuses for such appalling behaviour.

Well then let me tell you someting that is going to irritate you even more. I find your comment a few posts above much more racist than Llodra's colored language as it shows clearly you are fighting your own demons.

Gav wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

reckoner wrote:Yeah it's somehow everyone else's fault - the woman who was insulted, the journalist who reported it, tennis fans for taking an interest in the story. But the poor little racist's feelings must be protected at all costs.

Using her nationality in an insult doesnt make a man rascist my book.

Im sorry, but I completely disagree.

An insult on its own is an insult.
An insult based on or including nationality or race is a racist remark.
People who make racist remarks are racists.

I don't get that Gav, I said using nationality doesn't make him rascist, you've disagreed saying using nationality or race does. Well obviously using race would, but as I said nationality does not equal race I can't see that you can use that statement to disagree with mine.

Tenez wrote:Well then let me tell you someting that is going to irritate you even more. I find your comment a few posts above much more racist than Llodra's colored language as it shows clearly you are fighting your own demons.

Oh right of course. Because quoting something in a dismissive sense means you agree with it right?

bogbrush wrote:

Gav wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

reckoner wrote:Yeah it's somehow everyone else's fault - the woman who was insulted, the journalist who reported it, tennis fans for taking an interest in the story. But the poor little racist's feelings must be protected at all costs.

Using her nationality in an insult doesnt make a man rascist my book.

Im sorry, but I completely disagree.

An insult on its own is an insult.
An insult based on or including nationality or race is a racist remark.
People who make racist remarks are racists.

I don't get that Gav, I said using nationality doesn't make him rascist, you've disagreed saying using nationality or race does. Well obviously using race would, but as I said nationality does not equal race I can't see that you can use that statement to disagree with mine.

So by this logic calling someone a person of Asian descent is fine? Because, you knwo, Pakistani is a nationality. Or calling someone a Jew? That's fine too right? The reality is much more complex BB.

reckoner you sound like one of those politically corrected fruits who make a big song and dance if a white person says something bad but ignores any bad comments another race might say about a caucasian.

Did Llodra say being Chinese was a bad thing?

Maybe you are the person who snitched Llodra to the ATP.

Ermmm nope. I would say the same about any player who said the same thing. Your accusation has no basis at all.

The other words Llodra used should give you some idea of the context or are you being willfully blind?

Well you sound very happy that Llodra was scapegoated and fined.

Congrats!

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Well you sound very happy that Llodra was scapegoated and fined.

Congrats!

Wrong. I like Llodra's style of play actually. Rather sad to see what he's like as a person.

And he wasn't scapegoated - he got fined peanuts.

Reckoner in "IL GRAND INQUISITORE" de Verdi Don Carlo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64cvj6d3QvQ

Ridicule me all you like Tenez, you're just not man enough to admit the obvious fact that Llodra was racist and out of order in this incident.

Anyway, what about your unending crusade against "physicality"?

reckoner wrote:Ridicule me all you like Tenez, you're just not man enough to admit the obvious fact that Llodra was racist and out of order in this incident.

I am too man enough to bend to the PC neo-dictators!

Lets chill guys. I was up all night watching Wrestlemania and didnt get to sleep till 6am cos I had too much red bulls with the vodka so Im tired and in a grumpy mood. You wont like me in a grumpy mood.

Tenez wrote:

reckoner wrote:Ridicule me all you like Tenez, you're just not man enough to admit the obvious fact that Llodra was racist and out of order in this incident.

I am too man enough to bend to the PC neo-dictators!

... who exist only in your imagination.

OK Gav, having made my point I will leave it. Pointless to become a single issue bore.

Llodra was rude thats all, we don't get to hear about what the Chinese woman shouted in that match, some people don't have common courtesy and Llodra let her know.

Mickael

"Come on Ernie!" wow, how impolite.

"Come on Ernie"
-------
"Ernie" could be slang for a dirty, nasty word where Mickael lives.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:"Come on Ernie"
-------
"Ernie" could be slang for a dirty, nasty word where Mickael lives.

I checked. It's not.