A truly confusing conundrum.

First topic message reminder :

Chris Ashton ( the guy who used to score trys for england on a regular Basis) got alot of stick last year for the way he celebrated before he even scored the points. Celebrations like this .....

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/columnists/2011/2/12/1297522688970/Chris-Ashton--007.jpg

This caused complete outcry among people of the rugby world , Welsh people were up in arms. How dare this young Winger score a try in such manor! "Arrogant!" and "disrespectful!" were words that were being thrown around "Typical arrogant English". When confronted with the argument that Shane Williams has celebrated Trys in the same way ,they couldn't admit that their hate was unjustified. They would reply that shane has been around long enough on the international circuit and therefore his Celebrations are justified, perhaps that argument was fair enough......

But then this happened........

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2012/2/26/1330269176901/Scott-Williams-scores-a-t-007.jpg

A young welsh lad by the name of Scott Williams scores a match winning try against england at HQ in a manor that has significant similarities to an incident from a certain game at the millennium stadium last year .Yet there was no outcry from the English Rugby public or anyone else for that matter ? Even though this was a blatant copy of Ashtons celebrations, rumours have it that Ashton was so deeply effected by the Blatant breach of copy right laws that his form was hampered for the rest of the tournament.

What does this mean ?

Perhaps the English are more Gracious in defeat, so they don't bring up such inconsequential things ?

Or Maybe the Welsh Critics of the Ash-splash have seen the light, and now finally appreciate the Athletic ability it takes to jump a few feet into the air?

Or even more likely, the reason behind the completely different re-actions from the two trys is due to some unknown magical formula taking into account the height of the player in the air and the angle of which the player is facing the pitch?

Who Knows...

"Arrogance is largely in the eye and the heart of the beholder"

Ancient proverb by Master Rubysteronogov 1832

red_stag wrote:I dont see whats funny. I just dont find it arrogant. Thats all.

Being arrogant for me is doing something risky that could affect you and the team.

Pointing a finger in the air is simply celebrating a try.

red I dont want to put you down but that isnt what arrogance means.

I agree that pointing a finger in the air isnt risky compared to a swan dive, but risk has no bearing on arrogance! both are premeditaed actions and both could be classed as arrogant behaviour

South africans tend to use the whole fist.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

mystiroakey wrote:

red_stag wrote:I dont see whats funny. I just dont find it arrogant. Thats all.

Being arrogant for me is doing something risky that could affect you and the team.

Pointing a finger in the air is simply celebrating a try.

red I dont want to put you down but that isnt what arrogance means.

I agree that pointing a finger in the air isnt risky compared to a swan dive, but risk has no bearing on arrogance! both are premeditaed actions and both could be classed as arrogant behaviour

Thats fair enough pal, we just see arrogance a different way

Andrew Mehrtens had his own unique celebration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LXqeh-Upeg

I like the arrogant sportsman- most that arnt are hiding it up anyway!

Ashton is abit of a silly begger somtimes- he has done some right silly stuff- all part of growing up for some mind. I doubt SL will take kindly to him doing silly things again(i mean more the kiwi chamber maid story over the dives)

I remember Dan Biggar scoring a try for the Ospreys, had a clear run to the line, no one chasing and he decides instead of going beneath the posts to veer off course and dab the ball down as far in the corner as possible, then misses the conversion.

Thats arrogance, he wanted to go for a difficult kick to try and prove something instead of going for certain points.

Kiwireddevil wrote:Andrew Mehrtens had his own unique celebration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LXqeh-Upeg

I remember that, was he not chastised about that though?

Well he proved something IronMike!

Here's a couple of reasons why you should just get the ball down senisbly!:

http://www.rugbydump.com/2010/07/1532/midweek-madness-why-you-shouldnt-celebrate-before-scoring

And my favourite by Leguizamon:

http://www.rugbydump.com/2007/04/82/juan-leguizamon-showboating-blooper

biltongbek wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:Andrew Mehrtens had his own unique celebration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LXqeh-Upeg

I remember that, was he not chastised about that though?

From memory he got a 1 match ban or suspended ban and had to apologise. And the Chch locals who tried selling "Love Mehrts" (with a still of the crucial pose) t-shirts outside the next home game got in trouble over copyright.

I remember in the Twikenham 7's a few years ago, Dammadu (sp.??) The English player broke through and ran under the posts against Wales, stood still for a whole 5 seconds kissing the ball... then had he ball kicked out of his hand... They went on to lose 28 nil... Still, we should leave Ashton alone, its not as if he's swan dived scoring a try for a long time anyway.

Or scored a try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlzZIT_p83w&feature=related

Some more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJz4d-dJs6E

mystiroakey wrote:I dont give a swan dive a second thought.

You need me to tell you whats arrogant about gestures before a score. lol

i dont give a second thought. but its still a display of arrogance

You do need to time your celebratory excesses. Remember the Shane Williams 'ash-splash' when they lost against (Fiji wasn't it?)

The Umaga one was a cracker, even the very best can have those moments!! Anyone remember the Domonici one against Italy, or the Will Carling one, if anything, that one should be the poster boy for diving over the line!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ