The Valleys business plan.

First topic message reminder :

http://www.valleysrugby.com/our-players-coaches

Our Region

The boundaries of the Valleys Rugby region will be decided by the fans and the clubs of the Valleys Rugby region.

Geography

Valleys Rugby’s primary objective will be to provide a home for those fans and clubs in Wales that consider themselves to be part of the Valleys community and who want to be part of a professional team for their region.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

Clubs will be invited to affiliate to Valleys Rugby and to host home matches as per the Funding section.

North Wales

Valleys Rugby will also look to provide a resource for the development of the game in North and Mid Wales.

Valleys Rugby would work with the WRU to provide a sustainable development plan. Initially it is proposed that Valleys Rugby provides a 3 year commitment along the following basis:-

Base a permanent player academy in North Wales and a player academy in South Wales. The two academies would meet at a middle ground venue on a monthly basis;
Work closely with North and Mid Wales clubs to identify and develop talented players;
Play 2 Rabo Direct league fixtures in North Wales annually. For consistency purposes, Valleys Rugby would propose that the Edinburgh and Ulster games are played in North Wales annually;
Undertake preparation for the establishment of a similar Community owned business model for a professional franchise for North and Mid Wales.
The ultimate objective of Valleys Rugby would be to assist the WRU with the creation of a viable stand alone model for North and Mid Wales. The North and Mid Wales development would ultimately spin out and away from Valleys Rugby. The introduction of a 3 year timeframe in this proposal is intended to focus efforts on establishing this model within this timeframe.

Our Players & Coaches

Valleys Rugby proposes to operate with a low salary budget for playing staff. On the basis that the Region will carry a playing squad of 32 the total salary cap for this squad would be capped at £1,200,000.

The Region would rely on developing young players and so the above cap is based upon the squad have 12 of its players on salaries of c. £18,000 (£216,000) as young professionals.

The remainder of the playing budget (£984,000) would be available between the remaining 20 players to cover salary costs and incidental costs including national insurance.

The following key points would underpin this salary limit:-

All players to be Welsh qualified or qualifying;

Valleys Rugby players would be under contract with a “player release” available should the player aspire to join another Region. The player release would operate on the basis that Valleys Rugby would allow the release, provided the acquiring Region in return provides to Valleys Rugby an academy or younger professional deemed talented and unable to secure adequate development time at the acquiring Region. If a suitable player were not available from the acquiring Region, Valleys Rugby would look for a fixed level of financial contribution allowing further investment into the Valleys Rugby Community;

Valleys Rugby would operate with an “Area Quota” and so have a squad with at least 20% of its players being developed or from North Wales whilst within its time commitment to North Wales and a further 30% being developed or from the Valleys. See our outline regarding a commitment to North Wales elsewhere in the proposal;

Valleys Rugby would be keen to discuss and review “player policies” annually with the WRU and actively seek to engage the input of the WRU in placing younger or developing players with Valleys Rugby – as guided by the WRU on this important strategic issue;
Valleys Rugby would be keen to work with the Wales 7’s structure, to “home” international 7’s players and develop these within the 15 a side structure;

Valleys Rugby would look to develop a schools and young player academy with the WRU and actively seek to progress WRU policies of youth development within its region. To this end, Valleys rugby would be keen to adopt a “commitment to playing” development “stars” as identified by the WRU and with the other Regions if this became appropriate.
Valleys Rugby would not regard itself as a development region. However, it would absolutely embrace the concept of finding, developing and playing the rugby stars of the future.

The Academy

Valleys Rugby will be closely aligned with the playing academies of all existing Regions in any event and its business model is predicated on the ability to give young professional players game time and development time in the professional environment.

Valleys Rugby would propose to operate 2 playing academies, one based in South Wales and one in North Wales. The North Wales academy would ultimately spin-out into the full North Wales Region when this entity is established.

The 2 playing academies would meet at least monthly in a central geographic location to develop skills and coaching together.

Valleys Rugby would look to work closely with the WRU and allow the WRU to run the academy along the lines it thought most productive. Valleys Rugby would also seek to use the National Academy coaches and managers as often as possible.

Coaches

Valleys Rugby would conform to the coaching and support structure as laid out in the Regional Participation Agreement.

Valleys Rugby would appoint its coaches in conjunction with the WRU and in the interim will be assisted by Lynn Howells, currently the coach of the Romanian National team, formerly coach of Wales, Edinburgh in the Rabo Direct, Doncaster in the English Championship, Celtic Warriors and Pontypridd RFC operating in the role of interim Director of Rugby.

As Valleys Rugby develops, its coaching staff can be identified in more detail. Valleys Rugby would be very keen to work with the National Coaches, and provide these with the opportunity to work with and in the Region as often as desirable and agreed with the WRU.

Our Timescale

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the 2013/4 season.

In the 2012/3 season, if financial backing is secured sufficiently, Valleys Rugby would stage some games to attract interest and demonstrate its operation to potential sponsors.

Competitons

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the Rabo Direct league and in Europe.

In the first 3 years of its existence Valleys Rugby would agree to take on a role within the European Shield tournament rather than the Heineken Cup. This would allow each of the existing Regions to concentrate on the Heineken Cup for a period without having to worry about qualification.

Welsh Rugby would have a committed participant in the Shield tournament and so meet its obligations to this.

It is believed that Valleys Rugby and each of the existing Regions would benefit by this decision.

Name

Valleys Rugby has not proposed a name or nickname.

If a playing name were required then Valleys Rugby CBS would pick this using the majority vote of its members in due course.

Our Stadia

One major advantage of a new Region within Wales would simply be an increase in the number of derby games to the benefit of all of the Regions.

To develop this concept, and to engage in the entire Region, Valleys Rugby proposes hosting its Rabo Direct games in the most geographically advantageous area.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

An illustrative schedule of fixtures to be undertaken by Valleys Rugby might look as follows:-

Fixture Venue
Valleys v. Blues Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Ospreys Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Dragons Eugene Cross Park (Ebbw Vale) / Pontypool Park (Pontypool)
Valleys v. Scarlets Virginia Park (Caerphilly) / Brewery Field (Bridgend)
Valleys v. Leinster Sardis Road (Pontypridd) / The Gnoll (Neath)
Valleys v. Edinburgh Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Ulster Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Munster Penydarren Park (Merthyr)
Valleys v. Treviso Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Aironi Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Connacht Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Glasgow Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
European & LV Games Venues as appropriate
Valleys Rugby would hope to commit to a particular venue on a recurring basis (such as Eugene Cross Park for the Dragons) on the basis that this venue would generate home support for the Valleys and also generate a genuine derby atmosphere.

Fixing the fixture to a specific venue would add certainty to the “location” for supporters and hopefully avoid the crowd dilution effect suffered by Regions when moving to different venues previously.

Each of the grounds hosting Valleys Rugby would have to show adequate support from the ground owner and a commitment to ensure the playing surface and facilities are of adequate standard for Regional rugby.

Ultimately, the venues would be decided upon by the make-up of the affiliated clubs and their financial commitment to the Region.

Sardis Road Stadium

The initial principal stadium of Valleys Rugby would be Sardis Road. In this respect:-

RCT Local Authority has in principle agreed to spend £100,000 on the facility over a 3 year period, improving its drainage and playing surface;
RCT Local Authority has also indicated that it will be prepared to vest control of the asset of Sardis Road into the Community Benefit Society, provided it is satisfied with the "asset lock" provisions adopted by Valleys Rugby CBS.
A scheme for the redevelopment of Sardis Road has been investigated by award winning architects Austin-Smith Lord LLP and images of how a redevelopment could look can be seen here.

However, in its early stages, Valleys Rugby would spend predominantly on pitch improvement and general seating. Hospitality could be provided using marquee facilities and also by linking up with local hotels within the Region. Capital expenditure on hospitality would be required in the future but would not be targeted as an immediate priority.

Training Facilities

The training facilities of the University of Glamorgan would be utilised by Valleys Rugby. Valleys Rugby intends to develop close links with the University through player scholarships and similar schemes.

Travel Plan

Valleys Rugby recognises that an intelligent and well resourced travel plan will be required to maximise attendances at peripatetic Valleys Rugby home matches. Edwards Coaches has already indicated its support for Valleys Rugby and has undertaken to work with the new Region to develop and deliver a comprehensive and cost effective travel offering for Valleys Rugby supporters as part of our unique offering.

Pilot Business Plan

Despite the exceptional and welcome success of the Welsh national team, professional rugby in Wales is still subject to enormous challenges.

These challenges impact upon the financial well being of the game, its long term sustainability and its connection with the supporter base within Wales.

It is realistic to say that the existing Regional structure has had limited success to date and there continues to be a need to develop and improve the offering to rugby supporters throughout Wales, in order to further engage supporters of our national sport.

This document and its schedules provide a proposal for a new Region within the WRU structure.

The proposal is also intended to engage with the supporters of rugby in the Valleys who currently appear to be disenfranchised with the existing concept and also to reach out and attempt to assist the WRU with the development of professional rugby in North Wales.

This paper is presented as an outline document but should be considered as a proposal from which to launch a new Region that is both financially viable and closely aligned with, and owned by, its supporter base.

Valleys Rugby will be owned and controlled by the community it serves.

Valleys Rugby CBS will initially issue shares at £100 each. The shares will be “annual shares” and so need to be subscribed for once a year. Each shareholder, upon buying into Valleys Rugby, would be entitled to:-

Ability to vote and attend meetings of Valleys Rugby CBS;
Priority access to tickets and discounts on match tickets;
Ability to vote on the Board of Directors of Valleys Rugby and alter the executive structure of Valleys Rugby as required by its supporters;
Club magazine;
Discount in the club shop;
Ticket lottery;
Card and Share Certificate, certifying membership (which, if this is linked correctly with the regional businesses, could entitle an owner to discount in local shops in the community for example);
We will target a subscription by 10,000 fans at £100 per person – and using this model have an ability to raise £1,000,000 per annum from the owners of Valleys Rugby CBS.

It is important to note that anyone can subscribe for shares in Valleys Rugby CBS and support the establishment of a top-flight rugby team for the Valleys. Membership will be open to supporters from across Wales and the World.

This subscription and ownership will provide Valleys Rugby CBS with the equivalent of a rugby benefactor.

Fundraising - Clubs

As outlined in the Legal Structure section, Valleys Rugby CBS would own at least 60% of Valleys Rugby Limited.

The remaining balance would be owned by a combination of Affiliated Clubs, the WRU, Local Authorities and other interested parties.

A participation and subscription agreement will govern this ownership. The method and make-up of this element is subject to further investigation and discussion with the WRU and affiliated clubs.

It is envisaged that this element of ownership will also attract revenue into Valleys Rugby on an annual basis. However, if there is insufficient interest, the percentage of Valleys Rugby Limited owned by Valleys Rugby CBS would be increased and further shares made available to public ownership.

Early thoughts include a three tiered scale of club membership along the following lines:-

Junior Club Member - £500 pa;
Senior Club Member - £1,000 pa;
Senior Club Hosting Valleys Rugby Matches - £10,000 pa.
Commercial Sponsors

The commercial activities of Valleys Rugby Commercial Limited are also clearly key to the proposal as sponsorship, ticket sales, TV payments etc will make up the remainder of the balance sheet of Valleys Rugby.

Valleys Rugby will seek a minimum of £300,000 sponsorship per annum and believes the business community would be willing to support this as a venture.

Valleys Rugby at present cannot take full commitment from any sponsors as the concept has not been approved by the WRU. Until such approval takes place formal sponsorship and other commitments cannot be advanced.

However, in a show of support, Valleys Rugby has achieved an indication of sponsorship of £250,000 over a 3 year period from Heads of the Valleys Developments. Letters of support have been received from the following businesses:-

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
The ability to progress this element in detail is difficult unless and until the WRU indicates that it would be willing to support Valleys Rugby being developed as a concept. If this backing can be indicated it is believed that significant sponsorship opportunities can be progressed.

WRU Support

Valleys Rugby would require the support of the WRU to develop its Region, infrastructure and players.

The level of support can be discussed and agreed and will vary depending upon which areas the WRU would want Valleys Rugby to focus and develop.

The current business proposal is predicated on annual “match funding” to be provided by the WRU which would require that the WRU provide funding to Valleys Rugby at a level broadly in line with the members funding provided to Valleys Rugby.

On this basis, Valleys Rugby would seek a minimum of £1,200,000 annual funding from the WRU (via television and other rights) but would not request more than £1,500,000 from the WRU in any year, unless specifically agreed otherwise in partnership with the WRU. Any additional funding agreed would relate to player development funding if required.

This match funding structure would provide a unique partnership between the WRU, the supporters of Valleys Rugby and the traditional rugby clubs affiliated with Valleys Rugby.

If the WRU were keen for Valleys Rugby to assist with the development of professional rugby in North Wales, then Valleys Rugby would also seek the assistance of the WRU in raising any sporting or other grants available to it for the development of rugby in North Wales.

Operating Profit & Loss

A draft operating Profit & Loss can be found within the Business Plan document. It is based on assumptions that are believed to be realistic and shows a break even figure after receipt of £1,000,000 per annum from supporter subscription and £700,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union as Valleys Rugby's share of TV rights, etc.

This loss is prior to any publicly raised funds, club funds or WRU funding. Therefore, the funding structure proposed will cover this shortfall and potentially provides an element of contingency funding.

Sponsorship

We would welcome the support of any persons, organisations or companies who wish to invest in a new community-led model for Welsh Rugby.

Valleys Rugby has already secured the support of twenty commercial sponsors including:

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
For example, Heads of the Valleys Developments Ltd has already pledged a sum of £250,000.

Yeh I remember them Dave, and the Gren callenders and the like, they had goalposts on top of mountains going into the distance.

LordDowlais wrote:

Seriously mate, if you do not think that the valleys are a rugby hotbed you really need your head checked, if you have ever been to the valleys you would notice that any bit of spare grass has rugby posts on it. From Vale of Glamorgan and upwards to Brecon their must be about 500 different rugby clubs, Swansea is more for Football than rugby, I will give you Llanelli as a bit of a hotbed, but the valleys live and breathe rugby and every school puts it first before any other sport.

Everyone from the valleys says the same thing. The fact is that most internationals are developed in the areas I mentioned and traditionally they have always had the best teams. This is a fact and if you don't like me pointing it out it is not my problem. Yes the valleys have clubs as do Cardiff, Newport and Swansea; in fact they have more. This means they like to participate in sport not that it's a hot bed.

Besides, their good players get picked up from a young age and developed by the Regional academies. The North doesn't, which is why the WRU are attempting to do something about it. Valleys rugby is just a fantasy that needs to be let go of.

Martyn Williams and Gethin Jenkins.
Great Ponty products, but they've spent most of their careers at Cardiff.
Cheque book charlies we are, but again that's the way it is. Money talks.

Ponty is a bit of a hotbead to a be fair, but they don't churn them out as well they used to. Having grown up playing rubgy against the valleys (Ebbw Vale, Nelson, Pontypridd, Abergavenny, Pennycraig, Ystrad Rhonnda, Ynwswbl, Talywain, Abersychan, Garndiffaith, Merthyr College, Brynmawr School) and teams from the West I can say the title for 'hotbed' from my view goes to the west. And there's a fair few players from Ospreylia spread out across Wales.

My team was Caerleon RFC whilst growing up btw.

Morgannwg wrote:Ponty is a bit of a hotbead to a be fair, but they don't churn them out as well they used to. Having grown up playing rubgy against the valleys (Ebbw Vale, Nelson, Pontypridd, Abergavenny, Pennycraig, Ystrad Rhonnda, Ynwswbl, Talywain, Abersychan, Garndiffaith, Merthyr College, Brynmawr School) and teams from the West I can say the title for 'hotbed' from my view goes to the west. And there's a fair few players from Ospreylia spread out across Wales.

My team was Caerleon RFC whilst growing up btw.

Was Penny Craig the one that used to be on GMTV? The one that did the weight loss books?

Not sure. They were a pretty weak team though. There's a few valleys I missed out in the list but all were swept aside, a few hammerings dished out. Abercynon and Risca were around the same calibre as us. We were the only team to beat Ystrad the one season. The third game we played against them was one to forget though as they hammered us during our low point in that season. That said though, Caerleon = Gwent Cup champions for 4 year in a row (U13-U17).

shame they cnt turn that junior strength into senior strength as caerleon are in div six east

Morgannwg wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Seriously mate, if you do not think that the valleys are a rugby hotbed you really need your head checked, if you have ever been to the valleys you would notice that any bit of spare grass has rugby posts on it. From Vale of Glamorgan and upwards to Brecon their must be about 500 different rugby clubs, Swansea is more for Football than rugby, I will give you Llanelli as a bit of a hotbed, but the valleys live and breathe rugby and every school puts it first before any other sport.

Everyone from the valleys says the same thing. The fact is that most internationals are developed in the areas I mentioned and traditionally they have always had the best teams. This is a fact and if you don't like me pointing it out it is not my problem. Yes the valleys have clubs as do Cardiff, Newport and Swansea; in fact they have more. This means they like to participate in sport not that it's a hot bed.

Besides, their good players get picked up from a young age and developed by the Regional academies. The North doesn't, which is why the WRU are attempting to do something about it. Valleys rugby is just a fantasy that needs to be let go of.

Right recent players from the valleys that I can think of off the top of my head:-

Ryan Jones
Toby Falatua
Matthew Rees
Lloyd Burns
Gethin Jenkins

Then the not so recent ones:-

Kevin Morgan
Micheal Owen
Robert Sidoli
Martyn Williams
Gareth Thomas

Now ones from the not to distant past:-

Niel Jenkings
Robert Howely
Alan Bateman

Can anybody else add to this list as it is to early and I am trying to concentrate on the Highlanders V Stormers game.

Ryan Jones isn't one in reality.

Nor Toby Faletau he was at Filton College til the Dragons brought him home. Plus if you pulle your head out you might realise that both him and Burner are from Gwent and therefore part of the Dragons region...

No Valleys Rugby have decreed that the Dragons region is Newport and the Gwent mudflats.

Stone Motif wrote:Nor Toby Faletau he was at Filton College til the Dragons brought him home. Plus if you pulle your head out you might realise that both him and Burner are from Gwent and therefore part of the Dragons region...

He didn't mention Faletau to be fair. He mentioned a player called Falatua

Ebbw Vale are part of the Gwent valleys as are Tredegar, Balckwood, Bargoed, Blaina, Nant y Glo, Brynmawr, Abertilerry, Pengham, Cross Keys, Pontypool, just try telling people who live these places they are not a valley town, you will be tarred and faithered.

This is the problem Dowlais Top. They are valleys towns AND part of the Dragons region. Setting up a Valleys region will impact directly and indirectly on the existing regions.

Rhondda Schools have won or have reached the final every year over the last 10 years in the famous dewar shield competition (under 15's). Nobody can argue then that the talent is not there. However this is not built upon and subsequently a reflection of this talent is not being shown at regional level. There have been glimpses of course; Lou Reed, Matthew Rhys, Rhys Gill, Morgan Stoddart.

So what happens? Following Rhondda Schools Rugby, the best players are sent for trials with Cardiff Blues, the best are chosen for Blues North/South. This is then filtered into Cardiff Blues u18's where many Valley boys get shafted through selection or forced to travel to the edges of Cardiff for training, which is completely impractical for some who can't drive due to poor infrastructure.

This is a major reason why people and particularly youngsters from the Valleys are not going to support Cardiff Blues, although I do accept the some have signed up to the concept. I believe that if Cardiff Blues really was going to embrace their region they would of built a stadium in Treforest which is central to the region it serves with good transport links. They didn't do this which is to the detriment of the talent in the Valleys.

Being from the Valleys (Rhondda) I feel that there is a different mentality than that in the City. People are different, rugby is different politics are different. For this reason I think Valleys Rugby should be allowed to continue and form a Region but only if the people want it, as the business plan states. However it would be refreshing not to have the rugby based at sardis road, which is only going to allow doubters to think Ponty want a super club, but to base the Rugby at Penydarren Park in Merthyr. Neutral ground!

This would be ideal if there is not a top down review of the way rugby is played in Wales.

I would however, rather see a major reorganisation of the way regional rugby is delivered in Wales. Lets see true regions that serves the whole country, including the North. Change the way the league's work. Summer leagues, winter leagues. Do it differently to the way we are doing it now. By playing regional rugby outside the local club rugby season you could boost support and crowd numbers?

The WRU don't have the bottle to do this because they don't want to upset Peter Thomas etc.

So for now, Valleys Rugby under the alias of Valley Commandos, playing out of Merthyr is best way to get the best out of the Rugby Talent in the Valleys. I think so anyway.

LordDowlais wrote:Ebbw Vale are part of the Gwent valleys as are Tredegar, Balckwood, Bargoed, Blaina, Nant y Glo, Brynmawr, Abertilerry, Pengham, Cross Keys, Pontypool, just try telling people who live these places they are not a valley town, you will be tarred and faithered.

your point being? I live in bloody Cross Keys try telling me Dragons aren't my region.

GavinDragon wrote:shame they cnt turn that junior strength into senior strength as caerleon are in div six east

The players either go away to uni, get picked up by a prem team or their region, or just go to a team in a higher division. The way it always has been and lets face it, senior level always has been and will be pub team level.

LordDowlais wrote:Ebbw Vale are part of the Gwent valleys as are Tredegar, Balckwood, Bargoed, Blaina, Nant y Glo, Brynmawr, Abertilerry, Pengham, Cross Keys, Pontypool, just try telling people who live these places they are not a valley town, you will be tarred and faithered.

Which one of those is Ryan Jones from then? I'm from Risca, so brought up being anti Newport but I will call a spade a spade.

themoogs wrote: I believe that if Cardiff Blues really was going to embrace their region they would of built a stadium in Treforest which is central to the region it serves with good transport links. They didn't do this which is to the detriment of the talent in the Valleys.

This must be a wind up, surely.

More chance of Wales embracing England that Cardiff ever giving a flying about what happens in the Valleys. Well...unless they want the players that is...

Steffan wrote:More chance of Wales embracing England that Cardiff ever giving a flying about what happens in the Valleys. Well...unless they want the players that is...

Cardiff RFC Ltd are an independent business.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:More chance of Wales embracing England that Cardiff ever giving a flying about what happens in the Valleys. Well...unless they want the players that is...

Cardiff RFC Ltd are an independent business.

Well according. To u cardiff rfc and the blues r 1 and the sam

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:More chance of Wales embracing England that Cardiff ever giving a flying about what happens in the Valleys. Well...unless they want the players that is...

Cardiff RFC Ltd are an independent business.

Well according. To u cardiff rfc and the blues r 1 and the sam

Indeed they are. Always have been too. The regional hiccup changed nothing although some think differently for some reason.

http://www.2shared.com/document/lsI-frfr/VR_online.html

I put the PDF file of the whole proposal here, use Abode reader to open it.

LordDowlais wrote:Ebbw Vale are part of the Gwent valleys as are Tredegar, Balckwood, Bargoed, Blaina, Nant y Glo, Brynmawr, Abertilerry, Pengham, Cross Keys, Pontypool, just try telling people who live these places they are not a valley town, you will be tarred and faithered.

Yes, the Gwent valleys. They already have regional representation. I don't want the Dragons to represent just Newport, we have a club that does that.

LordDowlais wrote:I have been to Rodney Parade a few times, even before what it was like recently, and to be honest I do quite like it there, but it is hardley a Liberty Stadium or a Cardiff City stadium now is it.

And thank feck for that.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have been to Rodney Parade a few times, even before what it was like recently, and to be honest I do quite like it there, but it is hardley a Liberty Stadium or a Cardiff City stadium now is it.

And thank feck for that.

Why do people do this You have just taken one sentence from a paragraph I have wrote in reply to some one else and know it looks as if I am slagging off Sardis Rd. If you are going to quote what people say, then put the whole thing in not just a snippet to create something that can cause contraversy and an argument that you can manufacture for you to win.

Dowlais, what point were you trying to make? I can't comment on the facilities at CCS or Liberty as I have not been there. I have been to rodney parade however and the new stand is fabulous for hospitality and service. More to the point, it's situated on a real rugby ground rather than a souless football stadia.

LordDowlais wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have been to Rodney Parade a few times, even before what it was like recently, and to be honest I do quite like it there, but it is hardley a Liberty Stadium or a Cardiff City stadium now is it.

And thank feck for that.

Why do people do this You have just taken one sentence from a paragraph I have wrote in reply to some one else and know it looks as if I am slagging off Sardis Rd. If you are going to quote what people say, then put the whole thing in not just a snippet to create something that can cause contraversy and an argument that you can manufacture for you to win.

You haven't slagged off any ground as far as I can tell. No mention of Sardis either in the quoted snippet.
I prefer Rodney Parade to CCS and the Library as it happens.

The Liberty Stadium and Cardiff City Stadium are football stadiums. Rugby is a waste of time there. Develop the Gnoll, Sardis Road or any other Welsh rugby ground before playing at one of those plastic places. Even top clubs in England like Gloucester have terracing. Welsh domestic rugby should never go down that route of all seaters

Steffan wrote:The Liberty Stadium and Cardiff City Stadium are football stadiums. Rugby is a waste of time there. Develop the Gnoll, Sardis Road or any other Welsh rugby ground before playing at one of those plastic places. Even top clubs in England like Gloucester have terracing. Welsh domestic rugby should never go down that route of all seaters

Do you know how much money it will cost to bring some of these stadiums into the 21st century ? Sardis Rd might have a lovely new stand with some nice office space for some corporate hospitality suites but the rest of the ground is all standing and need some serious referbishment. Look, I like Sardis Rd and the atmosphere is second to none, but come on if you look at Thommand Park, the Showgrounds and even Ravenhill, the valleys stadiums do not come anywhere near them.

LordDowlais wrote:Do you know how much money it will cost to bring some of these stadiums into the 21st century ? Sardis Rd might have a lovely new stand with some nice office space for some corporate hospitality suites but the rest of the ground is all standing and need some serious referbishment. Look, I like Sardis Rd and the atmosphere is second to none, but come on if you look at , the Showgrounds and even Ravenhill, the valleys stadiums do not come anywhere near them.

What you say is true but problem is Thommand Park, Ravenhill etc are full every time the home team plays. This doesnt happen at the Liberty, CCS or Parc y Plonkers

Valleys Rugby has made further progress over the Easter break.

The organisational structure of Valleys Rugby continues to evolve and we are pleased to have agreed the appointment of an additional, experienced Financial Advisor to the board. Full details will be made public in the coming days.

We have previously stated that we think rugby has something to learn from the role Supporters Trusts have played in football in recent years and have been meeting with representatives of Trusts in leading Welsh clubs to hear their opinion of how rugby might benefit from similar principles and practicalities of fan ownership and engagement. We hope to formalise some of these relationships in the near future.

We have also stated that we believe sport, and rugby in particular, has not been capitalised on adequately as a vehicle for improving the health and wellbeing of Valleys communities. We have already produced evidence (Arad Research) to demonstrate that re-locating elite rugby in The Valleys would have a catalytic effect on the local economy. We also believe that Valleys Rugby would provide an aspirational focus and a practical resource for improving the health education and wellness of our local communities. To demonstrate this we are now starting to work with local education and health bodies and with leading UK academics to scope the potential of Valleys Rugby to deliver these wider benefits.

Finally, warm words of support continue to pour in. Here is just a selection of what you have been telling us:

"I for one am behind you, I will buy some shares, good luck."

"Would love a Valleys region to be formed. Finally a team to give Valleys people an identity in club rugby again at a pro level"

"I am a keen supporter of the concept of a Valleys Regional Side, as I am a Pontypool RFC supporter, and feel totally disenfranchised by the debarcle that is the Newport Dragons (I omit Gwent, as they do not in any way represent the Gwent Valley, soley Newport). I would like to know how I could increase or begin any involement in the campaign, as it is something that Valleys Rugby has been crying out for since the insensitive and botched setting up of the regional system in Welsh Rugby. I would also like to know what sort of role a club like Pontypool can play within the Valleys Regional Side. I understand, and support, that Pontypridd RFC would be the main bastion of the region, as it should be. I think it is however important that the big valley clubs, like Pooler, Ebbw Vale, Newbridge or Merthyr are involved heavily too, as this can only increase the level of support from the citizens of those given valley."

"I will be delighted to support Valleys Rugby."

"The people are bringing Rugby Home. Valleys Rugby can restore the passion and pride we are famous for."

"This is what we've been waiting for, I've been a Bridgend fan since I was a kid then became a Celtic Warriors fan and bought into that until the powers that be took it away from us! We have never been back since they got rid of the Celtic Warriors and have never felt part of the Neath & Swansea Ospreys.
This is where we belong Valleys Rugby, I don't mind coming to Sardis Road for every game but it would be nice if we could get the odd game here at Bridgend.
P.S. Please add the Bridgend area to the region and make Bridgend feel part of it. We've got our money waiting!"

"In full support of your proposals and intersted in becoming a shareholder"

"Would love it to work and see top class rugby back in valleys."

"I wanted to write to wish you well on the efforts to launch Valleys Rugby as a professional outfit. I feel I must be honest and say when originally suggested this venture struck me merely as a means for Pontypridd RFC to join the top table as well as being good for an election for local politicians. However I am very glad to say that I can see how completely wrong I was and let me say well done on all of your efforts. I am certainly impressed with your vision for Valleys Rugby."

"I am the owner and director of a small company... Originally from Blackwood and a Valleys Rugby supporter our company would be willing to sponsor Valleys Rugby."

"I'd be interested in paying £100 pa towards the region."

"I'm based up here in North Wales, and myself and almost all my friends would LOVE to support this sort of 'region'."

"Love the concept, fully behind it."

That's interesting Jimmy, particulary the baffling comment from the Pontypool supporter. However I think you missed what David Pickering has stated a couple times, basically saying the 4 Regions are staying put.

Steffan wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Do you know how much money it will cost to bring some of these stadiums into the 21st century ? Sardis Rd might have a lovely new stand with some nice office space for some corporate hospitality suites but the rest of the ground is all standing and need some serious referbishment. Look, I like Sardis Rd and the atmosphere is second to none, but come on if you look at , the Showgrounds and even Ravenhill, the valleys stadiums do not come anywhere near them.

What you say is true but problem is Thommand Park, Ravenhill etc are full every time the home team plays. This doesnt happen at the Liberty, CCS or Parc y Plonkers

It not about attendances, it is about stadium quality, and the likes of Sardis Rd and the Gnoll, Eugene Cross Park and the rest are not good enough, and the costs to get these grounds up to standard is going to be astronomicle.

LordDowlais wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have been to Rodney Parade a few times, even before what it was like recently, and to be honest I do quite like it there, but it is hardley a Liberty Stadium or a Cardiff City stadium now is it.

And thank feck for that.

Why do people do this You have just taken one sentence from a paragraph I have wrote in reply to some one else and know it looks as if I am slagging off Sardis Rd. If you are going to quote what people say, then put the whole thing in not just a snippet to create something that can cause contraversy and an argument that you can manufacture for you to win.

No offence, Dowlais, but what are you talking about? You haven't mentioned Sardis Road at all in the sentence I've quoted. The point I was making was that I'm glad Dave Parade isn't a soulless enormodrome like the CCS and the Liberty. I wasn't trying to make fun of you, which is what you seem to think.

To be fair, I did mean Rodney Parade not Sardis Rd.

Morgannwg wrote:That's interesting Jimmy, particulary the baffling comment from the Pontypool supporter. However I think you missed what David Pickering has stated a couple times, basically saying the 4 Regions are staying put.

Still, it's nice to have a dream. It is a baffling comment from the "Pontypool" chap though.

What is it, that is particularly baffling from the Pontypool chap?

"I am a keen supporter of the concept of a Valleys Regional Side, as I am a Pontypool RFC supporter, and feel totally disenfranchised by the debarcle that is the Newport Dragons (I omit Gwent, as they do not in any way represent the Gwent Valley, soley Newport). I would like to know how I could increase or begin any involement in the campaign, as it is something that Valleys Rugby has been crying out for since the insensitive and botched setting up of the regional system in Welsh Rugby. I would also like to know what sort of role a club like Pontypool can play within the Valleys Regional Side. I understand, and support, that Pontypridd RFC would be the main bastion of the region, as it should be. I think it is however important that the big valley clubs, like Pooler, Ebbw Vale, Newbridge or Merthyr are involved heavily too, as this can only increase the level of support from the citizens of those given valley."

Because it's the usual twaddle spouted. I omit Gwent and the rest of the rubbish in that bracketed bit is just ignorant. I question how the four clubs he mentions Pooler, Ebbw etc are big clubs, when they aren't. I don't know what this guy expects really, but Pontypool are hardly going to get players knocking on the door for regional rugby when they offer little in the Premiership. I'd rather have Ebbw Vale in the premiership over them and probably Bedwas.

To be fair to him, the guy who mentions club rugby is also not doing himself any favours, as I thought these disenfranchised guys were all about the Regional game? Could've picked a few better quotes than that really Jimmy.

Risca Rev wrote:

Because it's the usual twaddle spouted.

Welsh twaddle obviously.
I understand there is a 3 part BBC2W series planned that explains Welsh rugby to the masses.

Jimmy Moz wrote:we are pleased to have agreed the appointment of an additional, experienced Financial Advisor to the board. Full details will be made public in the coming days.

Priceless! Can't wait. "What we need to do, right, is get £200+ per season of a load of people who can't be bothered to watch rugby to pay for our rugby team, in one of the most deprived and dispersed parts of the country where the economy failed years ago, and no-one knows how to fix it."

Owen Smith: You're Fired.

Disenfranchised wrote: I would also like to know what sort of role a club like Pontypool can play within the Valleys Regional Side. I understand, and support, that Pontypridd RFC would be the main bastion of the region, as it should be. I think it is however important that the big valley clubs, like Pooler, Ebbw Vale, Newbridge or Merthyr are involved heavily too, as this can only increase the level of support from the citizens of those given valley."

Even more priceless. What can Pontypool RFC do? How about not frittering away their hard-earned valleys supporters money on taking the WRU to court whilst simultaneously going cap in hand to them for £1.2 million.

Risca Rev wrote:

Because it's the usual twaddle spouted. I omit Gwent and the rest of the rubbish in that bracketed bit is just ignorant. I question how the four clubs he mentions Pooler, Ebbw etc are big clubs, when they aren't. I don't know what this guy expects really, but Pontypool are hardly going to get players knocking on the door for regional rugby when they offer little in the Premiership. I'd rather have Ebbw Vale in the premiership over them and probably Bedwas.

To be fair to him, the guy who mentions club rugby is also not doing himself any favours, as I thought these disenfranchised guys were all about the Regional game? Could've picked a few better quotes than that really Jimmy.

There's a few in every town unfortunately. Check out the Valleys Rugby facebook page, they aren't smart at all. One guy actually suggests going back to the old clubs because Cross Keys beat the Cornish Pirates on Saturday.

As for Pooler well haven't they had their Premiership licence taken away? And Ebbw Vale got relegated. That leaves Bedwas, not sure if they are providing any players, Pontypool do have that promising number 8 though.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Because it's the usual twaddle spouted.

Welsh twaddle obviously.
I understand there is a 3 part BBC2W series planned that explains Welsh rugby to the masses.

Cool, so when is this due to be aired? I doubt it would be as interesting as The Story of Wales though.

Morgannwg wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Because it's the usual twaddle spouted.

Welsh twaddle obviously.
I understand there is a 3 part BBC2W series planned that explains Welsh rugby to the masses.

Cool, so when is this due to be aired? I doubt it would be as interesting as The Story of Wales though.

It will never be aired. I made it up obviously as the truth will never be aired. Best pretend and keep brushing it under the carpet. It's the Welsh way.

Well actually it was not so obvious seeing as there has already been a similar episode on Week In Week out. I missed that though. What is the truth exactly? What do you want the WRU to admit?

pontypool supporters seem to have short memories, when they were fighting the drop from the prem a couple of seasons ago they had a number of dragons players parachuted in to help them win their remaining games, they also had shaun connor as player coach when he was still contracted to the dragons.

If any of the gwent clubs have cause to moan about a lack of support its ebbw vale, and considering there catchment area and rather good stadium for that level is a club the dragons should be building bridges with

Does anyone know when the findings of the independent review into the regions are going to be published?

GavinDragon wrote:pontypool supporters seem to have short memories, when they were fighting the drop from the prem a couple of seasons ago they had a number of dragons players parachuted in to help them win their remaining games, they also had shaun connor as player coach when he was still contracted to the dragons.

If any of the gwent clubs have cause to moan about a lack of support its ebbw vale, and considering there catchment area and rather good stadium for that level is a club the dragons should be building bridges with

Not all Pooler fans Gavin. I've supported Pontypool for 40 years and I'm a Dragons season ticked holder! I want nothing to do with the "Valley's Fantasy Region".