The Valleys business plan.

First topic message reminder :

http://www.valleysrugby.com/our-players-coaches

Our Region

The boundaries of the Valleys Rugby region will be decided by the fans and the clubs of the Valleys Rugby region.

Geography

Valleys Rugby’s primary objective will be to provide a home for those fans and clubs in Wales that consider themselves to be part of the Valleys community and who want to be part of a professional team for their region.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

Clubs will be invited to affiliate to Valleys Rugby and to host home matches as per the Funding section.

North Wales

Valleys Rugby will also look to provide a resource for the development of the game in North and Mid Wales.

Valleys Rugby would work with the WRU to provide a sustainable development plan. Initially it is proposed that Valleys Rugby provides a 3 year commitment along the following basis:-

Base a permanent player academy in North Wales and a player academy in South Wales. The two academies would meet at a middle ground venue on a monthly basis;
Work closely with North and Mid Wales clubs to identify and develop talented players;
Play 2 Rabo Direct league fixtures in North Wales annually. For consistency purposes, Valleys Rugby would propose that the Edinburgh and Ulster games are played in North Wales annually;
Undertake preparation for the establishment of a similar Community owned business model for a professional franchise for North and Mid Wales.
The ultimate objective of Valleys Rugby would be to assist the WRU with the creation of a viable stand alone model for North and Mid Wales. The North and Mid Wales development would ultimately spin out and away from Valleys Rugby. The introduction of a 3 year timeframe in this proposal is intended to focus efforts on establishing this model within this timeframe.

Our Players & Coaches

Valleys Rugby proposes to operate with a low salary budget for playing staff. On the basis that the Region will carry a playing squad of 32 the total salary cap for this squad would be capped at £1,200,000.

The Region would rely on developing young players and so the above cap is based upon the squad have 12 of its players on salaries of c. £18,000 (£216,000) as young professionals.

The remainder of the playing budget (£984,000) would be available between the remaining 20 players to cover salary costs and incidental costs including national insurance.

The following key points would underpin this salary limit:-

All players to be Welsh qualified or qualifying;

Valleys Rugby players would be under contract with a “player release” available should the player aspire to join another Region. The player release would operate on the basis that Valleys Rugby would allow the release, provided the acquiring Region in return provides to Valleys Rugby an academy or younger professional deemed talented and unable to secure adequate development time at the acquiring Region. If a suitable player were not available from the acquiring Region, Valleys Rugby would look for a fixed level of financial contribution allowing further investment into the Valleys Rugby Community;

Valleys Rugby would operate with an “Area Quota” and so have a squad with at least 20% of its players being developed or from North Wales whilst within its time commitment to North Wales and a further 30% being developed or from the Valleys. See our outline regarding a commitment to North Wales elsewhere in the proposal;

Valleys Rugby would be keen to discuss and review “player policies” annually with the WRU and actively seek to engage the input of the WRU in placing younger or developing players with Valleys Rugby – as guided by the WRU on this important strategic issue;
Valleys Rugby would be keen to work with the Wales 7’s structure, to “home” international 7’s players and develop these within the 15 a side structure;

Valleys Rugby would look to develop a schools and young player academy with the WRU and actively seek to progress WRU policies of youth development within its region. To this end, Valleys rugby would be keen to adopt a “commitment to playing” development “stars” as identified by the WRU and with the other Regions if this became appropriate.
Valleys Rugby would not regard itself as a development region. However, it would absolutely embrace the concept of finding, developing and playing the rugby stars of the future.

The Academy

Valleys Rugby will be closely aligned with the playing academies of all existing Regions in any event and its business model is predicated on the ability to give young professional players game time and development time in the professional environment.

Valleys Rugby would propose to operate 2 playing academies, one based in South Wales and one in North Wales. The North Wales academy would ultimately spin-out into the full North Wales Region when this entity is established.

The 2 playing academies would meet at least monthly in a central geographic location to develop skills and coaching together.

Valleys Rugby would look to work closely with the WRU and allow the WRU to run the academy along the lines it thought most productive. Valleys Rugby would also seek to use the National Academy coaches and managers as often as possible.

Coaches

Valleys Rugby would conform to the coaching and support structure as laid out in the Regional Participation Agreement.

Valleys Rugby would appoint its coaches in conjunction with the WRU and in the interim will be assisted by Lynn Howells, currently the coach of the Romanian National team, formerly coach of Wales, Edinburgh in the Rabo Direct, Doncaster in the English Championship, Celtic Warriors and Pontypridd RFC operating in the role of interim Director of Rugby.

As Valleys Rugby develops, its coaching staff can be identified in more detail. Valleys Rugby would be very keen to work with the National Coaches, and provide these with the opportunity to work with and in the Region as often as desirable and agreed with the WRU.

Our Timescale

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the 2013/4 season.

In the 2012/3 season, if financial backing is secured sufficiently, Valleys Rugby would stage some games to attract interest and demonstrate its operation to potential sponsors.

Competitons

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the Rabo Direct league and in Europe.

In the first 3 years of its existence Valleys Rugby would agree to take on a role within the European Shield tournament rather than the Heineken Cup. This would allow each of the existing Regions to concentrate on the Heineken Cup for a period without having to worry about qualification.

Welsh Rugby would have a committed participant in the Shield tournament and so meet its obligations to this.

It is believed that Valleys Rugby and each of the existing Regions would benefit by this decision.

Name

Valleys Rugby has not proposed a name or nickname.

If a playing name were required then Valleys Rugby CBS would pick this using the majority vote of its members in due course.

Our Stadia

One major advantage of a new Region within Wales would simply be an increase in the number of derby games to the benefit of all of the Regions.

To develop this concept, and to engage in the entire Region, Valleys Rugby proposes hosting its Rabo Direct games in the most geographically advantageous area.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

An illustrative schedule of fixtures to be undertaken by Valleys Rugby might look as follows:-

Fixture Venue
Valleys v. Blues Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Ospreys Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Dragons Eugene Cross Park (Ebbw Vale) / Pontypool Park (Pontypool)
Valleys v. Scarlets Virginia Park (Caerphilly) / Brewery Field (Bridgend)
Valleys v. Leinster Sardis Road (Pontypridd) / The Gnoll (Neath)
Valleys v. Edinburgh Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Ulster Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Munster Penydarren Park (Merthyr)
Valleys v. Treviso Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Aironi Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Connacht Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Glasgow Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
European & LV Games Venues as appropriate
Valleys Rugby would hope to commit to a particular venue on a recurring basis (such as Eugene Cross Park for the Dragons) on the basis that this venue would generate home support for the Valleys and also generate a genuine derby atmosphere.

Fixing the fixture to a specific venue would add certainty to the “location” for supporters and hopefully avoid the crowd dilution effect suffered by Regions when moving to different venues previously.

Each of the grounds hosting Valleys Rugby would have to show adequate support from the ground owner and a commitment to ensure the playing surface and facilities are of adequate standard for Regional rugby.

Ultimately, the venues would be decided upon by the make-up of the affiliated clubs and their financial commitment to the Region.

Sardis Road Stadium

The initial principal stadium of Valleys Rugby would be Sardis Road. In this respect:-

RCT Local Authority has in principle agreed to spend £100,000 on the facility over a 3 year period, improving its drainage and playing surface;
RCT Local Authority has also indicated that it will be prepared to vest control of the asset of Sardis Road into the Community Benefit Society, provided it is satisfied with the "asset lock" provisions adopted by Valleys Rugby CBS.
A scheme for the redevelopment of Sardis Road has been investigated by award winning architects Austin-Smith Lord LLP and images of how a redevelopment could look can be seen here.

However, in its early stages, Valleys Rugby would spend predominantly on pitch improvement and general seating. Hospitality could be provided using marquee facilities and also by linking up with local hotels within the Region. Capital expenditure on hospitality would be required in the future but would not be targeted as an immediate priority.

Training Facilities

The training facilities of the University of Glamorgan would be utilised by Valleys Rugby. Valleys Rugby intends to develop close links with the University through player scholarships and similar schemes.

Travel Plan

Valleys Rugby recognises that an intelligent and well resourced travel plan will be required to maximise attendances at peripatetic Valleys Rugby home matches. Edwards Coaches has already indicated its support for Valleys Rugby and has undertaken to work with the new Region to develop and deliver a comprehensive and cost effective travel offering for Valleys Rugby supporters as part of our unique offering.

Pilot Business Plan

Despite the exceptional and welcome success of the Welsh national team, professional rugby in Wales is still subject to enormous challenges.

These challenges impact upon the financial well being of the game, its long term sustainability and its connection with the supporter base within Wales.

It is realistic to say that the existing Regional structure has had limited success to date and there continues to be a need to develop and improve the offering to rugby supporters throughout Wales, in order to further engage supporters of our national sport.

This document and its schedules provide a proposal for a new Region within the WRU structure.

The proposal is also intended to engage with the supporters of rugby in the Valleys who currently appear to be disenfranchised with the existing concept and also to reach out and attempt to assist the WRU with the development of professional rugby in North Wales.

This paper is presented as an outline document but should be considered as a proposal from which to launch a new Region that is both financially viable and closely aligned with, and owned by, its supporter base.

Valleys Rugby will be owned and controlled by the community it serves.

Valleys Rugby CBS will initially issue shares at £100 each. The shares will be “annual shares” and so need to be subscribed for once a year. Each shareholder, upon buying into Valleys Rugby, would be entitled to:-

Ability to vote and attend meetings of Valleys Rugby CBS;
Priority access to tickets and discounts on match tickets;
Ability to vote on the Board of Directors of Valleys Rugby and alter the executive structure of Valleys Rugby as required by its supporters;
Club magazine;
Discount in the club shop;
Ticket lottery;
Card and Share Certificate, certifying membership (which, if this is linked correctly with the regional businesses, could entitle an owner to discount in local shops in the community for example);
We will target a subscription by 10,000 fans at £100 per person – and using this model have an ability to raise £1,000,000 per annum from the owners of Valleys Rugby CBS.

It is important to note that anyone can subscribe for shares in Valleys Rugby CBS and support the establishment of a top-flight rugby team for the Valleys. Membership will be open to supporters from across Wales and the World.

This subscription and ownership will provide Valleys Rugby CBS with the equivalent of a rugby benefactor.

Fundraising - Clubs

As outlined in the Legal Structure section, Valleys Rugby CBS would own at least 60% of Valleys Rugby Limited.

The remaining balance would be owned by a combination of Affiliated Clubs, the WRU, Local Authorities and other interested parties.

A participation and subscription agreement will govern this ownership. The method and make-up of this element is subject to further investigation and discussion with the WRU and affiliated clubs.

It is envisaged that this element of ownership will also attract revenue into Valleys Rugby on an annual basis. However, if there is insufficient interest, the percentage of Valleys Rugby Limited owned by Valleys Rugby CBS would be increased and further shares made available to public ownership.

Early thoughts include a three tiered scale of club membership along the following lines:-

Junior Club Member - £500 pa;
Senior Club Member - £1,000 pa;
Senior Club Hosting Valleys Rugby Matches - £10,000 pa.
Commercial Sponsors

The commercial activities of Valleys Rugby Commercial Limited are also clearly key to the proposal as sponsorship, ticket sales, TV payments etc will make up the remainder of the balance sheet of Valleys Rugby.

Valleys Rugby will seek a minimum of £300,000 sponsorship per annum and believes the business community would be willing to support this as a venture.

Valleys Rugby at present cannot take full commitment from any sponsors as the concept has not been approved by the WRU. Until such approval takes place formal sponsorship and other commitments cannot be advanced.

However, in a show of support, Valleys Rugby has achieved an indication of sponsorship of £250,000 over a 3 year period from Heads of the Valleys Developments. Letters of support have been received from the following businesses:-

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
The ability to progress this element in detail is difficult unless and until the WRU indicates that it would be willing to support Valleys Rugby being developed as a concept. If this backing can be indicated it is believed that significant sponsorship opportunities can be progressed.

WRU Support

Valleys Rugby would require the support of the WRU to develop its Region, infrastructure and players.

The level of support can be discussed and agreed and will vary depending upon which areas the WRU would want Valleys Rugby to focus and develop.

The current business proposal is predicated on annual “match funding” to be provided by the WRU which would require that the WRU provide funding to Valleys Rugby at a level broadly in line with the members funding provided to Valleys Rugby.

On this basis, Valleys Rugby would seek a minimum of £1,200,000 annual funding from the WRU (via television and other rights) but would not request more than £1,500,000 from the WRU in any year, unless specifically agreed otherwise in partnership with the WRU. Any additional funding agreed would relate to player development funding if required.

This match funding structure would provide a unique partnership between the WRU, the supporters of Valleys Rugby and the traditional rugby clubs affiliated with Valleys Rugby.

If the WRU were keen for Valleys Rugby to assist with the development of professional rugby in North Wales, then Valleys Rugby would also seek the assistance of the WRU in raising any sporting or other grants available to it for the development of rugby in North Wales.

Operating Profit & Loss

A draft operating Profit & Loss can be found within the Business Plan document. It is based on assumptions that are believed to be realistic and shows a break even figure after receipt of £1,000,000 per annum from supporter subscription and £700,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union as Valleys Rugby's share of TV rights, etc.

This loss is prior to any publicly raised funds, club funds or WRU funding. Therefore, the funding structure proposed will cover this shortfall and potentially provides an element of contingency funding.

Sponsorship

We would welcome the support of any persons, organisations or companies who wish to invest in a new community-led model for Welsh Rugby.

Valleys Rugby has already secured the support of twenty commercial sponsors including:

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
For example, Heads of the Valleys Developments Ltd has already pledged a sum of £250,000.

The facts have been put in place for the Valleys business plan (hence this thread). Its more than viable. Morgannwg has just gone for the 'Erm...erm...erm...it didnt work 10 years ago so wont now' defense. Which quite frankly is...PATHETIC

mog, this is getting beyond a joke and quite frankly your claims are very tedious. Firstly, do you know for a fact I only watch rugby on the box? Still, why would you feel you have more to offer just because you've watched Newport for 26 years when that doesn't really hold any relevance to this new region?
Secondly, FFS I didn't compare North Wales to the Rebels, which I've already stated. I really don't see how I can make that any more clear than I already have.
Thirdly, the only ones running down other regions are the valleys rugby bandwagon. They have done since 2003.
Fourthly, the only ones providing a good arguement are the ones who have stated throughout how it is near impossible to add an extra valleys region, nor would the WRU do it at the expense of one of the current ones. I haven't heard a good arguement from the Valleys rugby supporters, yourself included. All we've been given is a pilot business plan or what other like to call, a fantasy story.

P.S. I gave you your quotation and had to double check you were talking about the Dragons because I couldn't make out what it said. It would look silly on my part if you were talking about another team in there, 'deagouns'... I find it ironic you've supported them since the ineption but can't spell their name. Still you can believe I'm basing my arguement on spelling and the Rebels merging with North Wales if it makes you feel better.

Morgannwg wrote:LOL - yeah good one mog... Here is just one link to shoot down your arguement: http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20935. A valleys team on top of the current 4 is not viable, and that's a fact. I can't believe people still don't know that.

How many season ticket holders in total are there at Bedwas, Pontypool, etc? I'm guessing, but it can't be more than a few hundred and how many would wish to attend a Drags game? Just asking like.

Exactly Dave. Head. Brick wall!!!

Morgannwg wrote:I'm still struggling to see how a valleys Region would be a success whilst not having an impact on the current 4 should they also stay put mog, have you not read anything of note on this thread?

A few people feel 'disenfranchised' by the Dragons and feel they don't represent them. So they go and support another 'region' that doesn't represent them. That's the bit I don't get.

I get it.

Steffan wrote:The facts have been put in place for the Valleys business plan (hence this thread). Its more than viable. Morgannwg has just gone for the 'Erm...erm...erm...it didnt work 10 years ago so wont now' defense. Which quite frankly is...PATHETIC

What league are they going to play in?

Where will they get their funding after asking for only half the current salary cup? Doesn't sound like more than viable does it.

Why would they get players and fans from clubs in Gwent when they are affiliated to the Dragons? (Keys, Bedwas, Pontypool).

Why would they get players and fans from Bridgend when they are owned by the Ospreys?

Can the travel links between your proposed three grounds support the supposed thousands of fans coming to the town?

Last but not least, how can any of this be facts when it is a PILOT BUSINESS PLAN ?

Morgan. Do me a favour. I'm on my phone typing and I always make errors.
I know you watch rugby on the box, because you haven't got a clue.
I'm not a valleys rugby supporter at all. But I would support ten fold over a north Wales region. It's a moronic idea. Simples!!

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:LOL - yeah good one mog... Here is just one link to shoot down your arguement: http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20935. A valleys team on top of the current 4 is not viable, and that's a fact. I can't believe people still don't know that.

How many season ticket holders in total are there at Bedwas, Pontypool, etc? I'm guessing, but it can't be more than a few hundred and how many would wish to attend a Drags game? Just asking like.

I guess it would require a few surveys if you wanted to know. Fact is, Dragons are trying to reach out to their clubs and create a fan base. Something your Blues don't do. It's something the Dragons, OSpreys and Scarlets do, the ones embracing Regionalism. He argued the Dragons didn't and I proved him wrong. Not sure why you commented though, he's just going to latch onto you now aswell. Ever seen a puppy hump someone's leg?

manofgwent wrote:Morgan. Do me a favour. I'm on my phone typing and I always make errors.
I know you watch rugby on the box, because you haven't got a clue.
I'm not a valleys rugby supporter at all. But I would support ten fold over a north Wales region. It's a moronic idea. Simples!!

That's fine if you are on the phone. Still can't see how proving you wrong in front of everybody means I haven't got a clue and that I only watch rugby on the box. The people like myself who have challenged the proposal have asked for some logic to be applied. It appears the saps(?) like yourself and Steffan are unable to do that.

I also support the idea of North Wales getting the chance for their own region, because they are true rugby supporters. The valleys region is a moronic idea. Simples.

Whats a 'sap'?

Bizarre. How old are you??
You proved me wrong in front of everyone how??? By sending a link that the Dragons are offering free tickets to Gwent prem season ticket holders??
No. You're right. You've done me up like a kipper.
What a dick you are!!

Morgannwg wrote:I also support the idea of North Wales getting the chance for their own region, because they are true rugby supporters. The valleys region is a moronic idea. Simples.

Bets attempted WUM on here for a while

Morgannwg wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:LOL - yeah good one mog... Here is just one link to shoot down your arguement: http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20935. A valleys team on top of the current 4 is not viable, and that's a fact. I can't believe people still don't know that.

How many season ticket holders in total are there at Bedwas, Pontypool, etc? I'm guessing, but it can't be more than a few hundred and how many would wish to attend a Drags game? Just asking like.

I guess it would require a few surveys if you wanted to know. Fact is, Dragons are trying to reach out to their clubs and create a fan base. Something your Blues don't do. It's something the Dragons, OSpreys and Scarlets do, the ones embracing Regionalism. He argued the Dragons didn't and I proved him wrong. Not sure why you commented though, he's just going to latch onto you now aswell. Ever seen a puppy hump someone's leg?

Now you are knocking Cardiff Blues again. Why?
Could you also explain to me what it is that they don't do compared to the others?
Free travel for supporters from any rugby club within the region was a good offer. They also previously offered a combined club/region season ticket.
They do tons of other stuff if you have a look on their website.

Steff. I don't reckon he's a WUM. I just don't think he's got a scooby what day it is!! Never mind. He can tell me more about the Dragons when ifobover RP tomorrow night. He's sure to be there boring the shut out of the faithful with his vast knowledge!!
Sap indeed!!

Save. Don't bother. I live a 10 minute walk from Rodney Parade. I'm a season ticket holder and this plank is trying to tell me that the Dragons are reaching out into Gwent. They're only offering free tickets because they know that they'll get a small crowd against Treviso. The Dragons don't do a lot at all for the Gwent valleys and as I said. I live in Newport and could easily not argue for the rest of Hwent, but we're supposed to be a region and like in so many other cases with the Deagons, we are a complete amateur organisation.

mog and Steffan the irony is killing me. Dick and sap are a form of insult I think, but you'd have to ask mog for clarification seeing as he thinks it's big to do it on an internet forum. It's quite simple how you were proved wrong, why do I need to repeat myself over and over? Here is another fact, I will be over RP tomorrow, in the Business Suite. And Steffan how about answering my questions? Oh yeah, that's right, you haven't. And you won't. You haven't answered anyone's questions on the matter. Looks like we were correct and you were wrong then.

Get you in the business suite. Freebie?!?!?! Dick and sap are insults, but fair when used in context to you!!

[quote="Cardiff Dave"]

Morgannwg wrote:

Now you are knocking Cardiff Blues again. Why?
Could you also explain to me what it is that they don't do compared to the others?
Free travel for supporters from any rugby club within the region was a good offer. They also previously offered a combined club/region season ticket.
They do tons of other stuff if you have a look on their website.

Blues need a good knocking, or something, thought you would agree?
No but instead, perhaps you can tell me what they do, as I was unaware in the Blues case.

manofgwent wrote:Get you in the business suite. Freebie?!?!?! Dick and sap are insults, but fair when used in context to you!!

Yeah, people in the business suite don't use those kind of words. They also don't use them and then have the nerve to suggest the person they aimed those words at are childish. I'll be around when you can come show me how Dragons don't embrace their Region after I showed you that they do.

Well get yourself out of your box and walk through the Hazell. If you want to do a survey, ask where the fans are from. I see the same faces now as I've always done. You may want to check out the Argus message board from time to time. It's full of hatred dowager Newport and the Dragons. Just saying..

Morgannwg wrote:

Blues need a good knocking, or something, thought you would agree?
No but instead, perhaps you can tell me what they do, as I was unaware in the Blues case.

You made the accusation, so you tell me. I have started you off with a couple of examples.

I don't want to do a survey, Dave can do one. You being the all great seeing of familiar faces and some messages on the argus board is hardly good evidence.

Dave, do Cardiff offer free bus services to fans in neighbouring towns? Do they stage games at other grounds or offer free tickets to their clubs?

So going over the Dragons for every home game doesn't give me z feel of where the fans are from?? I despair. I can tell you now that the Dragons aren't really supported in the valleys . I work in the Gwent valleys. This is what I see and hear. Maybe I'm just meeting the wrong people and the RP crowd head for the bus station and off up the valleys when my backs turned. I'm telling you now. The Dragons are Newport in disguise!!!

Not really, because you don't see all 5-10,000 fans and wouldn't remember all 5-10,000 of them anyway. Dear oh dear.

I believe Blues have some training camp in Builth Wells when the royal welsh is in town, whether that is seen as reaching out to people outside of Cardiff.

Regionalism will never be embraced. FACT. They can attempt to reach out to others, and in a sense Osprey's and Scarlets have done this. But this 'club' rivalry and indeed loyalty will always get in the way of true regionalism. I think if every suggestion that people make on here about how the regions can reach disenfranchised fans people will still not support the region. It may be embraced in 15+ years time when the next generation grow up with 'regions' but unfortunately the current fan base of the regions will always be affiliated with their club colours.

Morgannwg wrote:

Dave, do Cardiff offer free bus services to fans in neighbouring towns? Do they stage games at other grounds or offer free tickets to their clubs?

I would have thought you would have known the answers to these questions since you said;
"Fact is, Dragons are trying to reach out to their clubs and create a fan base. Something your Blues don't do."

But i'll answer them for you if you like.
To repeat, yes Cardiff Blues have offered free coach travel to and from rugby clubs within the region. That can be easily a 120 mile round trip, all for free.
No they don't stage games at grounds other than their own ie where they pay the rent for example.
Yes they have given away 1000's of freebies over the years to clubs, schools, community groups etc. I had one not so long ago and it had originally been given to an organisation based in Llantwit Fadre. Can't get more regional than that.

5,000 - 10,000 at the Dragons!! Try 4,500- 5,500. You must be seeing double with all that free booze in the box!!
Of course I dont know everyone over there, but you do recognise and come to know so many in the Hazell. I can tell you that Newport bus and train station is never over run by hundreds of fans from the valleys. The Dragons get worse crowds than Newport ever did and that's because not only do we not get Gwent fans, but we've disenfranchised a lot of Newport fans too. I remember Newport regularly getting 7,000-8,000. Now we get 5,500 and a load of those are on freebies..

Kiwireddevil wrote:
MoG, Morg and Stef, can you all please argue without directing childish insults at people just because they disagree with you.

Can you point out where I directed childish insults at anyone?

manofgwent wrote:5,000 - 10,000 at the Dragons!! Try 4,500- 5,500. You must be seeing double with all that free booze in the box!!
Of course I dont know everyone over there, but you do recognise and come to know so many in the Hazell. I can tell you that Newport bus and train station is never over run by hundreds of fans from the valleys. The Dragons get worse crowds than Newport ever did and that's because not only do we not get Fwent fans, but we've disenfranchised a lot of Newport fans too. I remember Newport regularly getting 7,000-8,000. Now we get 5,500 and a load of those are on free IRS.

Yeah and all this is a fact right because you say you have seen it?

Btw, thanks for pointing that out Dave. I guess all four are trying to embrace the concept, not just three.

Morgannwg wrote:

Btw, thanks for pointing that out Dave. I guess all four are trying to embrace the concept, not just three.

As MOG has pointed out, it probably has more to do with getting bums on seats than anything else.

Morgannwg wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:
MoG, Morg and Stef, can you all please argue without directing childish insults at people just because they disagree with you.

Can you point out where I directed childish insults at anyone?

It appears the saps(?) like yourself and Steffan are unable to do that.

The thread was threatening to descend into bickering up top of page, so rather than have to deal with a big mess in the morning I posted that behaviour note above.

Night all.

Isn't trying to grow the fan base and reach out to the distant fans not embracing regionalism? But with that, I guess you do get bums on seats.

Oh come on KRD, I put a (?) there for a reason. I weren't calling anyone a sap, it was a hint of sarcasm as a reply to being called just that. If I'm going to insult someone I prefer to use the term douchebag.

My wife teaches in Newport and can get tickets for every Dragons game. Her school gets around 15 permatch. A good friend of mine and a fellow season ticket holder and also a teacher is giving his season ticket up because his school also get free tickets. A friend of my wife was around the other week. She had 3 tickets for the Dragons v Blues game in her bag. Never used them. It's appalong. Im only saying what I see. I've been to watch the Dragons at the CCS twice and never paid. We were given free tickets outside the ground. Three years ago, 11 of us went down. We managed to get 8 free tickets.
Seriously. Ask any Dragon fan over there tomorrow and they'll tell you the same. I'd love you to go to Pontypool park or Eugene Cross and ask the fans up there, what they think of the Dragons.
You are the only person I've heard say that the Valleys have bought into the Dragons region. The only one in 8 years.

Hey if you went to Cross Keys college then I'm pretty sure you'd say the same. Perhaps Dragons should actually host a game at Eugene Cross Park, it was an earlier suggestion I believe.

I went to Cross Keys college for 2 years about 15 years ago. My company is also based in Cross Keys.
I'm all for the Dragons taking the region around. We need to do something to improve the fan base. I agree with something a poster said earlier. Maybe the next generation will embrace regional rugby.

The next generation is my one, and the younger guys coming through. They already follow the Regions, a case of so far so good. I mentioned Keys though because I studied and played rugby there with a lot of valleys folk. Nobody mopes around about the old clubs at all.

Glad we finally agreed on something. Need sleep now. Enjoy the game tomorrow. Sorry about the sap and dick comments. I'll be calling the ref worse tomorrow.
Ciao for now!

The next generation was my idea but never mind at least we all agree on something

Morgannwg wrote:Isn't trying to grow the fan base and reach out to the distant fans not embracing regionalism? But with that, I guess you do get bums on seats.

Cardiff Blues, with their antics, effectively destroyed their existing fan base. To grow it again they need to look closer to home and no I wouldn't exactly refer to what they are doing as "embracing regionalism". Acts of desperation would be more accurate. If they have to offer free tickets and free travel just to get a few bums on seats then there is a problem. Coach travel even though "free" still has to be paid for by somebody and they lose out on free tickets also.
It's all bonkers.

It's no bother. I said I'd be at the suite tomorrow, what I didn't mention is that I would be working behind the bar... So it will be a box viewing for me tomorrow.

Ciao!

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Cardiff Blues, with their antics, effectively destroyed their existing fan base. To grow it again they need to look closer to home and no I wouldn't exactly refer to what they are doing as "embracing regionalism". Acts of desperation would be more accurate. If they have to offer free tickets and free travel just to get a few bums on seats then there is a problem. Coach travel even though "free" still has to be paid for by somebody and they lose out on free tickets also.
It's all bonkers.

So why does it work for the Scarlets? The Blues do need to start from scratch though.

Well, as already backed up by fans from two regions on here, Newport Gwent Dragons and Cardiff Blues, do not want anything to do with the valleys in their region. I will also add, that by the sounds of it the current fans want nowt to do with the valleys either, which just confirms the feelings I have had whenever I have watched them. They should just come out and be honest and say what they are Or would like to be CARDIFF and NEWPORT.

Dowlais - are you just going to ignore the Dragons fans on here then that are actually from the valleys/outside of Newport and actually go and watch the Dragons play? Are you just going to choose the posts that agree with your thinking instead?

rugbydreamer wrote:Dowlais - are you just going to ignore the Dragons fans on here then that are actually from the valleys/outside of Newport and actually go and watch the Dragons play? Are you just going to choose the posts that agree with your thinking instead?

Yeah.

LordDowlais wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:Dowlais - are you just going to ignore the Dragons fans on here then that are actually from the valleys/outside of Newport and actually go and watch the Dragons play? Are you just going to choose the posts that agree with your thinking instead?

Yeah.

Well, at least you're honest about it

When you think of how many people from the valleys that are rugby fans and wouldn't consider supporting the regions, the percentage that the Dragons get is minimal. There are a few, but not many at all and the Dragons support s neRly all Newport based. There is the old tribalism and the Dragons haven't embraced the Gwent valleys. Also who wants to spend extra time and money in these times supporting team. It's ok for me. I can walk to the ground in 10 minutes, but I would give tonights game a miss if it was Eugene Cross Park, I'd have to leave work early, drive to Ebbw Vale and not get home until about 10.30 and that's without staying behind for a beer. I don't blame any valleys rugby fan for not supporting the Dragons. The product is so poor. Who would spend rims and money to watch us play Treviso on a Friday or Glasgow at 5pm on a Sunday. The Dragons are Newport, but they just don't want to tell anyone!!

If I wasn't currently saving up for a wedding I'd go down tonight and I'm not even a Dragons fan - I just enjoy any pro-rugby and the atmosphere and stadium down with the Dragons is fantastic. I used to go to the Blues as well but since the boycott there seems to be more away fans for the derbies and barely any singing in any of the games combined with their poor form on the pitch it's off putting - but I'm sure it'll improve next season and I'll catch a few Blues games (money allowing) as well.

LordDowlais wrote:Well, as already backed up by fans from two regions on here, Newport Gwent Dragons and Cardiff Blues, do not want anything to do with the valleys in their region. I will also add, that by the sounds of it the current fans want nowt to do with the valleys either, which just confirms the feelings I have had whenever I have watched them. They should just come out and be honest and say what they are Or would like to be CARDIFF and NEWPORT.

Cardiff Blues have supporters from places such as Merthyr, Aberdare, Llantwit Fadre, Nelson, Porth etc etc. Also the vast majority who I've attended games with are not from Cardiff, but originate from places throughout the Vale such as Penarth, Barry, Llantwit Major etc. This was the case before any of us on here had even heard the word "regionalism".
As i've already stated in this thread, Cardiff Blues have offered free travel to and from any rugby club within the region (also from other regions according to what they said on facebook recently) and have given bucket loads of free tickets to schools, clubs, community groups etc etc.
Previously, they ditched their club colours (black) and crest/logo, dropped their nickname, the fixture list on their website only dates back to 2003 and until recently claimed that they had only played 61 games in Europe.
What more would you suggest they do to be more region friendly to get more bums on seats bearing in mind that everything they have tried so far has not really succeeded?

The fact is LordDowlais everybody is welcome to support Cardiff Blues. Where they live matters not.