The Valleys business plan.

First topic message reminder :

http://www.valleysrugby.com/our-players-coaches

Our Region

The boundaries of the Valleys Rugby region will be decided by the fans and the clubs of the Valleys Rugby region.

Geography

Valleys Rugby’s primary objective will be to provide a home for those fans and clubs in Wales that consider themselves to be part of the Valleys community and who want to be part of a professional team for their region.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

Clubs will be invited to affiliate to Valleys Rugby and to host home matches as per the Funding section.

North Wales

Valleys Rugby will also look to provide a resource for the development of the game in North and Mid Wales.

Valleys Rugby would work with the WRU to provide a sustainable development plan. Initially it is proposed that Valleys Rugby provides a 3 year commitment along the following basis:-

Base a permanent player academy in North Wales and a player academy in South Wales. The two academies would meet at a middle ground venue on a monthly basis;
Work closely with North and Mid Wales clubs to identify and develop talented players;
Play 2 Rabo Direct league fixtures in North Wales annually. For consistency purposes, Valleys Rugby would propose that the Edinburgh and Ulster games are played in North Wales annually;
Undertake preparation for the establishment of a similar Community owned business model for a professional franchise for North and Mid Wales.
The ultimate objective of Valleys Rugby would be to assist the WRU with the creation of a viable stand alone model for North and Mid Wales. The North and Mid Wales development would ultimately spin out and away from Valleys Rugby. The introduction of a 3 year timeframe in this proposal is intended to focus efforts on establishing this model within this timeframe.

Our Players & Coaches

Valleys Rugby proposes to operate with a low salary budget for playing staff. On the basis that the Region will carry a playing squad of 32 the total salary cap for this squad would be capped at £1,200,000.

The Region would rely on developing young players and so the above cap is based upon the squad have 12 of its players on salaries of c. £18,000 (£216,000) as young professionals.

The remainder of the playing budget (£984,000) would be available between the remaining 20 players to cover salary costs and incidental costs including national insurance.

The following key points would underpin this salary limit:-

All players to be Welsh qualified or qualifying;

Valleys Rugby players would be under contract with a “player release” available should the player aspire to join another Region. The player release would operate on the basis that Valleys Rugby would allow the release, provided the acquiring Region in return provides to Valleys Rugby an academy or younger professional deemed talented and unable to secure adequate development time at the acquiring Region. If a suitable player were not available from the acquiring Region, Valleys Rugby would look for a fixed level of financial contribution allowing further investment into the Valleys Rugby Community;

Valleys Rugby would operate with an “Area Quota” and so have a squad with at least 20% of its players being developed or from North Wales whilst within its time commitment to North Wales and a further 30% being developed or from the Valleys. See our outline regarding a commitment to North Wales elsewhere in the proposal;

Valleys Rugby would be keen to discuss and review “player policies” annually with the WRU and actively seek to engage the input of the WRU in placing younger or developing players with Valleys Rugby – as guided by the WRU on this important strategic issue;
Valleys Rugby would be keen to work with the Wales 7’s structure, to “home” international 7’s players and develop these within the 15 a side structure;

Valleys Rugby would look to develop a schools and young player academy with the WRU and actively seek to progress WRU policies of youth development within its region. To this end, Valleys rugby would be keen to adopt a “commitment to playing” development “stars” as identified by the WRU and with the other Regions if this became appropriate.
Valleys Rugby would not regard itself as a development region. However, it would absolutely embrace the concept of finding, developing and playing the rugby stars of the future.

The Academy

Valleys Rugby will be closely aligned with the playing academies of all existing Regions in any event and its business model is predicated on the ability to give young professional players game time and development time in the professional environment.

Valleys Rugby would propose to operate 2 playing academies, one based in South Wales and one in North Wales. The North Wales academy would ultimately spin-out into the full North Wales Region when this entity is established.

The 2 playing academies would meet at least monthly in a central geographic location to develop skills and coaching together.

Valleys Rugby would look to work closely with the WRU and allow the WRU to run the academy along the lines it thought most productive. Valleys Rugby would also seek to use the National Academy coaches and managers as often as possible.

Coaches

Valleys Rugby would conform to the coaching and support structure as laid out in the Regional Participation Agreement.

Valleys Rugby would appoint its coaches in conjunction with the WRU and in the interim will be assisted by Lynn Howells, currently the coach of the Romanian National team, formerly coach of Wales, Edinburgh in the Rabo Direct, Doncaster in the English Championship, Celtic Warriors and Pontypridd RFC operating in the role of interim Director of Rugby.

As Valleys Rugby develops, its coaching staff can be identified in more detail. Valleys Rugby would be very keen to work with the National Coaches, and provide these with the opportunity to work with and in the Region as often as desirable and agreed with the WRU.

Our Timescale

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the 2013/4 season.

In the 2012/3 season, if financial backing is secured sufficiently, Valleys Rugby would stage some games to attract interest and demonstrate its operation to potential sponsors.

Competitons

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the Rabo Direct league and in Europe.

In the first 3 years of its existence Valleys Rugby would agree to take on a role within the European Shield tournament rather than the Heineken Cup. This would allow each of the existing Regions to concentrate on the Heineken Cup for a period without having to worry about qualification.

Welsh Rugby would have a committed participant in the Shield tournament and so meet its obligations to this.

It is believed that Valleys Rugby and each of the existing Regions would benefit by this decision.

Name

Valleys Rugby has not proposed a name or nickname.

If a playing name were required then Valleys Rugby CBS would pick this using the majority vote of its members in due course.

Our Stadia

One major advantage of a new Region within Wales would simply be an increase in the number of derby games to the benefit of all of the Regions.

To develop this concept, and to engage in the entire Region, Valleys Rugby proposes hosting its Rabo Direct games in the most geographically advantageous area.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

An illustrative schedule of fixtures to be undertaken by Valleys Rugby might look as follows:-

Fixture Venue
Valleys v. Blues Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Ospreys Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Dragons Eugene Cross Park (Ebbw Vale) / Pontypool Park (Pontypool)
Valleys v. Scarlets Virginia Park (Caerphilly) / Brewery Field (Bridgend)
Valleys v. Leinster Sardis Road (Pontypridd) / The Gnoll (Neath)
Valleys v. Edinburgh Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Ulster Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Munster Penydarren Park (Merthyr)
Valleys v. Treviso Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Aironi Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Connacht Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Glasgow Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
European & LV Games Venues as appropriate
Valleys Rugby would hope to commit to a particular venue on a recurring basis (such as Eugene Cross Park for the Dragons) on the basis that this venue would generate home support for the Valleys and also generate a genuine derby atmosphere.

Fixing the fixture to a specific venue would add certainty to the “location” for supporters and hopefully avoid the crowd dilution effect suffered by Regions when moving to different venues previously.

Each of the grounds hosting Valleys Rugby would have to show adequate support from the ground owner and a commitment to ensure the playing surface and facilities are of adequate standard for Regional rugby.

Ultimately, the venues would be decided upon by the make-up of the affiliated clubs and their financial commitment to the Region.

Sardis Road Stadium

The initial principal stadium of Valleys Rugby would be Sardis Road. In this respect:-

RCT Local Authority has in principle agreed to spend £100,000 on the facility over a 3 year period, improving its drainage and playing surface;
RCT Local Authority has also indicated that it will be prepared to vest control of the asset of Sardis Road into the Community Benefit Society, provided it is satisfied with the "asset lock" provisions adopted by Valleys Rugby CBS.
A scheme for the redevelopment of Sardis Road has been investigated by award winning architects Austin-Smith Lord LLP and images of how a redevelopment could look can be seen here.

However, in its early stages, Valleys Rugby would spend predominantly on pitch improvement and general seating. Hospitality could be provided using marquee facilities and also by linking up with local hotels within the Region. Capital expenditure on hospitality would be required in the future but would not be targeted as an immediate priority.

Training Facilities

The training facilities of the University of Glamorgan would be utilised by Valleys Rugby. Valleys Rugby intends to develop close links with the University through player scholarships and similar schemes.

Travel Plan

Valleys Rugby recognises that an intelligent and well resourced travel plan will be required to maximise attendances at peripatetic Valleys Rugby home matches. Edwards Coaches has already indicated its support for Valleys Rugby and has undertaken to work with the new Region to develop and deliver a comprehensive and cost effective travel offering for Valleys Rugby supporters as part of our unique offering.

Pilot Business Plan

Despite the exceptional and welcome success of the Welsh national team, professional rugby in Wales is still subject to enormous challenges.

These challenges impact upon the financial well being of the game, its long term sustainability and its connection with the supporter base within Wales.

It is realistic to say that the existing Regional structure has had limited success to date and there continues to be a need to develop and improve the offering to rugby supporters throughout Wales, in order to further engage supporters of our national sport.

This document and its schedules provide a proposal for a new Region within the WRU structure.

The proposal is also intended to engage with the supporters of rugby in the Valleys who currently appear to be disenfranchised with the existing concept and also to reach out and attempt to assist the WRU with the development of professional rugby in North Wales.

This paper is presented as an outline document but should be considered as a proposal from which to launch a new Region that is both financially viable and closely aligned with, and owned by, its supporter base.

Valleys Rugby will be owned and controlled by the community it serves.

Valleys Rugby CBS will initially issue shares at £100 each. The shares will be “annual shares” and so need to be subscribed for once a year. Each shareholder, upon buying into Valleys Rugby, would be entitled to:-

Ability to vote and attend meetings of Valleys Rugby CBS;
Priority access to tickets and discounts on match tickets;
Ability to vote on the Board of Directors of Valleys Rugby and alter the executive structure of Valleys Rugby as required by its supporters;
Club magazine;
Discount in the club shop;
Ticket lottery;
Card and Share Certificate, certifying membership (which, if this is linked correctly with the regional businesses, could entitle an owner to discount in local shops in the community for example);
We will target a subscription by 10,000 fans at £100 per person – and using this model have an ability to raise £1,000,000 per annum from the owners of Valleys Rugby CBS.

It is important to note that anyone can subscribe for shares in Valleys Rugby CBS and support the establishment of a top-flight rugby team for the Valleys. Membership will be open to supporters from across Wales and the World.

This subscription and ownership will provide Valleys Rugby CBS with the equivalent of a rugby benefactor.

Fundraising - Clubs

As outlined in the Legal Structure section, Valleys Rugby CBS would own at least 60% of Valleys Rugby Limited.

The remaining balance would be owned by a combination of Affiliated Clubs, the WRU, Local Authorities and other interested parties.

A participation and subscription agreement will govern this ownership. The method and make-up of this element is subject to further investigation and discussion with the WRU and affiliated clubs.

It is envisaged that this element of ownership will also attract revenue into Valleys Rugby on an annual basis. However, if there is insufficient interest, the percentage of Valleys Rugby Limited owned by Valleys Rugby CBS would be increased and further shares made available to public ownership.

Early thoughts include a three tiered scale of club membership along the following lines:-

Junior Club Member - £500 pa;
Senior Club Member - £1,000 pa;
Senior Club Hosting Valleys Rugby Matches - £10,000 pa.
Commercial Sponsors

The commercial activities of Valleys Rugby Commercial Limited are also clearly key to the proposal as sponsorship, ticket sales, TV payments etc will make up the remainder of the balance sheet of Valleys Rugby.

Valleys Rugby will seek a minimum of £300,000 sponsorship per annum and believes the business community would be willing to support this as a venture.

Valleys Rugby at present cannot take full commitment from any sponsors as the concept has not been approved by the WRU. Until such approval takes place formal sponsorship and other commitments cannot be advanced.

However, in a show of support, Valleys Rugby has achieved an indication of sponsorship of £250,000 over a 3 year period from Heads of the Valleys Developments. Letters of support have been received from the following businesses:-

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
The ability to progress this element in detail is difficult unless and until the WRU indicates that it would be willing to support Valleys Rugby being developed as a concept. If this backing can be indicated it is believed that significant sponsorship opportunities can be progressed.

WRU Support

Valleys Rugby would require the support of the WRU to develop its Region, infrastructure and players.

The level of support can be discussed and agreed and will vary depending upon which areas the WRU would want Valleys Rugby to focus and develop.

The current business proposal is predicated on annual “match funding” to be provided by the WRU which would require that the WRU provide funding to Valleys Rugby at a level broadly in line with the members funding provided to Valleys Rugby.

On this basis, Valleys Rugby would seek a minimum of £1,200,000 annual funding from the WRU (via television and other rights) but would not request more than £1,500,000 from the WRU in any year, unless specifically agreed otherwise in partnership with the WRU. Any additional funding agreed would relate to player development funding if required.

This match funding structure would provide a unique partnership between the WRU, the supporters of Valleys Rugby and the traditional rugby clubs affiliated with Valleys Rugby.

If the WRU were keen for Valleys Rugby to assist with the development of professional rugby in North Wales, then Valleys Rugby would also seek the assistance of the WRU in raising any sporting or other grants available to it for the development of rugby in North Wales.

Operating Profit & Loss

A draft operating Profit & Loss can be found within the Business Plan document. It is based on assumptions that are believed to be realistic and shows a break even figure after receipt of £1,000,000 per annum from supporter subscription and £700,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union as Valleys Rugby's share of TV rights, etc.

This loss is prior to any publicly raised funds, club funds or WRU funding. Therefore, the funding structure proposed will cover this shortfall and potentially provides an element of contingency funding.

Sponsorship

We would welcome the support of any persons, organisations or companies who wish to invest in a new community-led model for Welsh Rugby.

Valleys Rugby has already secured the support of twenty commercial sponsors including:

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
For example, Heads of the Valleys Developments Ltd has already pledged a sum of £250,000.

I am going to the derby tomorrow, me and my old man, we will go down early and have a pint watch the game and then go home. All in that order. Just because I do not support any one region, it does not mean I do not support rugby, and in particular, Welsh rugby. I always cherry pick my games, so as manofgwent as said, I will not waste my time on a Dragons V Treviso game, but I would think about going to watch that game if it was a HC or Amlin game. Also I would not waste my time travelling down to Leckwith to watch the Blues V Connacht. But, if I had a region closer to home I would throw my heart and soul into it and watch them play Treviso, Connacht, Glasgow or anyone.

Cardiff Dave wrote: The fact is LordDowlais everybody is welcome to support Cardiff Blues. Where they live matters not.

As long as you embrace Cardiff

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote: The fact is LordDowlais everybody is welcome to support Cardiff Blues. Where they live matters not.

As long as you embrace Cardiff

I didn't write that.

I've fixed his quoting - it's really easy to delete just too much/too little of the html when you try to remove older quotes - KRD

I do not even know how to take snippets from people quotes, so don't worry about it.

Apologies for that Dowlais - thanks for fixing it KRD

LordDowlais wrote:I do not even know how to take snippets from people quotes, so don't worry about it.

It does make me think that you could create a quote from anyone on anything by making little changes such as

Gareth Baber wrote:I like to dance around in little girls underwear

And suddenly it changes the whole perception of that person

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I do not even know how to take snippets from people quotes, so don't worry about it.

It does make me think that you could create a quote from anyone on anything by making little changes such as

Gareth Baber wrote:I like to dance around in little girls underwear

And suddenly it changes the whole perception of that person

Yeah, but must be good at something.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:It does make me think that you could create a quote from anyone on anything by making little changes such as

Gareth Baber wrote:I like to dance around in little girls underwear

And suddenly it changes the whole perception of that person

That probably doesn't chance any Blues fans opinion of him

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:It does make me think that you could create a quote from anyone on anything by making little changes such as

Gareth Baber wrote:I like to dance around in little girls underwear

And suddenly it changes the whole perception of that person

That probably doesn't chance any Blues fans opinion of him

I don't know - they might now think that he at least does something entertaining ...

LordDowlais wrote:I am going to the derby tomorrow, me and my old man, we will go down early and have a pint watch the game and then go home. All in that order. Just because I do not support any one region, it does not mean I do not support rugby, and in particular, Welsh rugby. I always cherry pick my games, so as manofgwent as said, I will not waste my time on a Dragons V Treviso game, but I would think about going to watch that game if it was a HC or Amlin game. Also I would not waste my time travelling down to Leckwith to watch the Blues V Connacht. But, if I had a region closer to home I would throw my heart and soul into it and watch them play Treviso, Connacht, Glasgow or anyone.

I've signed the valleys rugby petition and I hope you get your region closer to home, I really do.

Cheers Cardiff Dave. At least, if a valleys region does come to fruition, then you will not have to put up with us barbarians from the north. .Although, my old man has been a Cardiff supporter all his life so you might have to put up with him a little bit longer.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote: The fact is LordDowlais everybody is welcome to support Cardiff Blues. Where they live matters not.

As long as you embrace Cardiff

Stop blydi stirring.
Llanelli never had the same problems to deal with as Newport and Cardiff.
With clubs like Pontypridd, Pontypool, Ebbw Vale all close by there was bound to be friction and there clearly still is. The Warriors fiasco just added to the mess.

LordDowlais wrote:Cheers Cardiff Dave. At least, if a valleys region does come to fruition, then you will not have to put up with us barbarians from the north. .Although, my old man has been a Cardiff supporter all his life so you might have to put up with him a little bit longer.

No worries. Is your old man a Merthyr lad?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote: The fact is LordDowlais everybody is welcome to support Cardiff Blues. Where they live matters not.

As long as you embrace Cardiff

Stop blydi stirring.
Llanelli never had the same problems to deal with as Newport and Cardiff.
With clubs like Pontypridd, Pontypool, Ebbw Vale all close by there was bound to be friction and there clearly still is. The Warriors fiasco just added to the mess.

I was just going on your previous posts on other threads where you say "Cardiff Blues will always be Cardiff RFC and everyone knows it" and also that "there's no point marketing/reaching out to the Valleys as they know Cardiff are Cardiff".

So by your words anyone from the surrounding area who wants to support the Blues will have to embrace Cardiff as well. Or am I wrong?

I really hope this valley region comes off, but lets take all emotion out of the game, and treat it as it needs to be to stay afloat which is a business...

Where do they play? What will it cost and what kind of crowds will it attract?

Firstly the region will need a home, if it's Sardis theres going to be uproar that the Blues are just down the road, and everyone further out are still neglected. Result - There should be a heads of the valley road region!

If we use Penny, ponty and surroundings will grumble that Sardis is the most succesfull non proffesional stadia in Wales. Result - The 'real valleys' need a region!

What would both of these stadia cost to rent? and what would be the minimum crowd needed to make a profit, I suspect they would not be profitable for a long time, therefore can the WRU help it initially? NO!

I really hope I'm wrong, as I think Cardiff need this move just as much as they do!

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Cheers Cardiff Dave. At least, if a valleys region does come to fruition, then you will not have to put up with us barbarians from the north. .Although, my old man has been a Cardiff supporter all his life so you might have to put up with him a little bit longer.

No worries. Is your old man a Merthyr lad?

Yes, he is, born and bread. His choice to support Cardiff made my choice to support Pontypridd that much easier though.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I really hope this valley region comes off, but lets take all emotion out of the game, and treat it as it needs to be to stay afloat which is a business...

Where do they play? What will it cost and what kind of crowds will it attract?

Firstly the region will need a home, if it's Sardis theres going to be uproar that the Blues are just down the road, and everyone further out are still neglected. Result - There should be a heads of the valley road region!

If we use Penny, ponty and surroundings will grumble that Sardis is the most succesfull non proffesional stadia in Wales. Result - The 'real valleys' need a region!

What would both of these stadia cost to rent? and what would be the minimum crowd needed to make a profit, I suspect they would not be profitable for a long time, therefore can the WRU help it initially? NO!

I really hope I'm wrong, as I think Cardiff need this move just as much as they do!

Pontypridd and Merthyr Tydfil are bordering with each other though, and it is only a 15 minute car journey, 25 minute bus and train journey and that is with all the stops inbetween at each village from one town center to the other, so although I think Penydarren park is the better ground with more capacity and facilities I would not begrudge using both grounds like Munster do with Thommand and Musgrave.

Lord

Your in a world of your own mate, 25 mins on a bus to Penny from Ponty, ye sounds good, but the CCS is 10 mins on the train with a 400m walk, or 15 mins on a bus.

You are not comparing Ponty or Merthyr to Limerick and Cork are you? They are a 10th of the size, and Munster have a home in the very impressive Thomond. Limerick and the surrounding holds Rugby as high as GAA, In Cork Rugby is very much 2nd/3rd choice, plus Musgrave really just holds small games, and is an olive branch to a huge area that you physically would take hours to drive to Limerick from.

They are not down the road from each other, they do not share games 50/50, and Thomond is 100 times the stadium Penny or Sardis is!!!

Your a poor argument mate!

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

I was just going on your previous posts on other threads where you say "Cardiff Blues will always be Cardiff RFC and everyone knows it" and also that "there's no point marketing/reaching out to the Valleys as they know Cardiff are Cardiff".

So by your words anyone from the surrounding area who wants to support the Blues will have to embrace Cardiff as well. Or am I wrong?

Yes you are correct and from browsing Companies House recently, Cardiff Blues are Cardiff RFC in the same way that the Scarlets are Llanelli RFC. Unless i'm mistaken of course. If i'm wrong let me know.
My point about "marketing/reaching out to the valleys" was to highlight that despite the efforts of Cardiff Blues, it hasn't worked because people aren't buying it, so in fact they are wasting money persevering with this strategy. One thing's for sure, Ponty fans haven't been fooled by the pretence and they have actively rebelled against it and who can blame them.

Dave

+1

I don't blame them, I would do exactly the same, thats why I think this will benefit the Blues as much as the Valleys!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Lord

Your in a world of your own mate, 25 mins on a bus to Penny from Ponty, ye sounds good, but the CCS is 10 mins on the train with a 400m walk, or 15 mins on a bus.

You are not comparing Ponty or Merthyr to Limerick and Cork are you? They are a 10th of the size, and Munster have a home in the very impressive Thomond. Limerick and the surrounding holds Rugby as high as GAA, In Cork Rugby is very much 2nd/3rd choice, plus Musgrave really just holds small games, and is an olive branch to a huge area that you physically would take hours to drive to Limerick from.

They are not down the road from each other, they do not share games 50/50, and Thomond is 100 times the stadium Penny or Sardis is!!!

Your a poor argument mate!

Hang on, for a start, the CCS is not ten minutes on the train for us up here in the valleys, it is more like an hour on the train to Cardiff central then another 20 mins trying to get to Leckwith, which is what I will be doing tomorrow and as I have done in the past. I am not comparing the towns and cities of Merthyr, Pontypridd, Limerick and Cork, I am comparing the situation. I am sure that between Merthyr Tydfil and Ponypridd we can come up with a situation that is good for both towns, and I know the people from the Rhondda will go to Sardis and hopefully people from Aberdare could go to Penydarren Park and before you know it we will all be going around the place to watch a valleys region, it just needs to get off the ground thats all.

Ponty to Cardiff central an hour????

WTF kind of train are you getting? You know you don't have to stop at every pub from Cardiff central to the stadium also don't you? In 20 mins you could make the trip 3 times!
The shuttle does it in less than 20 mins, and drops you off outside the door from Ponty.

The situation of Munster and the Valleys is also as different as you could possibly get. 100's of years of history, an actual region that defended it's borders against invaders and each other, they have community, they have relationships, they have a bond beyond any sport, of which there are a number of sports that unify them!

For 10 years Wales has to ignore 100's of bickering, infighting and tribalism. We have no geographical borders as Ireland does, and therefore regions were never going to work, especially when one is occupied out west by about 2% of the population, and one trying to cover 30% of the population (near 50% represented by SW).

thebluesmancometh wrote:Ponty to Cardiff central an hour????

WTF kind of train are you getting? You know you don't have to stop at every pub from Cardiff central to the stadium also don't you? In 20 mins you could make the trip 3 times!
The shuttle does it in less than 20 mins, and drops you off outside the door from Ponty.

The situation of Munster and the Valleys is also as different as you could possibly get. 100's of years of history, an actual region that defended it's borders against invaders and each other, they have community, they have relationships, they have a bond beyond any sport, of which there are a number of sports that unify them!

For 10 years Wales has to ignore 100's of bickering, infighting and tribalism. We have no geographical borders as Ireland does, and therefore regions were never going to work, especially when one is occupied out west by about 2% of the population, and one trying to cover 30% of the population (near 50% represented by SW).

What re you on about, I take the train from Merthyr to Cardiff quite often, and by the time you stop off at every village on the way it take's about 1hr and a bit. Also when you get off the train in Cardiff central there is not a bus or taxi waiting for you to get straight on, you have to walk and find one and if you are not lucky you have to wait for one to turn up. You then have to do the same to get back. Anyway I am not talking about CCS stadium, I am talking about Pontyridd town center to Merthyr town center and by bus or train it is about 25 mins and that is with all the stops inbetween, if you choose to take your car then it would be a 15 minute trip. Surely between the two towns we could work out something that will suit all the fans in our valleys, also I was only using Munster as an example, as they use two different stadiums in two different places and still manage, and as Merthyr and Ponty are closer together then it should be easier.

And I was only highlighting that the CCS is closer to Ponty than Pennydarren is!

Also why would you get on a bus or taxi from central when the walks less than a mile and can be done in 10 mins!

Distance isn't the only issue!

If you are talking of a 50/50 ground share I don't think that can work, I think a team needs a home, and whichever is chosen the other fans will have something to say about it!

thebluesmancometh wrote:And I was only highlighting that the CCS is closer to Ponty than Pennydarren is!

Also why would you get on a bus or taxi from central when the walks less than a mile and can be done in 10 mins!

Distance isn't the only issue!

If you are talking of a 50/50 ground share I don't think that can work, I think a team needs a home, and whichever is chosen the other fans will have something to say about it!

If you think that CCS stadium is closer than Penydarren park, then seriously mate, you need to check your facts. Penydarren Park is right in Merthyr town center (more or less), and Merthyr town center is only about 10 to 15 miles away from Ponty town center, Leckwith is about 35 miles away from Pontypridd and is much more of a hassle to get to.

LordDowlais wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Ponty to Cardiff central an hour????

WTF kind of train are you getting? You know you don't have to stop at every pub from Cardiff central to the stadium also don't you? In 20 mins you could make the trip 3 times!
The shuttle does it in less than 20 mins, and drops you off outside the door from Ponty.

The situation of Munster and the Valleys is also as different as you could possibly get. 100's of years of history, an actual region that defended it's borders against invaders and each other, they have community, they have relationships, they have a bond beyond any sport, of which there are a number of sports that unify them!

For 10 years Wales has to ignore 100's of bickering, infighting and tribalism. We have no geographical borders as Ireland does, and therefore regions were never going to work, especially when one is occupied out west by about 2% of the population, and one trying to cover 30% of the population (near 50% represented by SW).

What re you on about, I take the train from Merthyr to Cardiff quite often, and by the time you stop off at every village on the way it take's about 1hr and a bit. Also when you get off the train in Cardiff central there is not a bus or taxi waiting for you to get straight on, you have to walk and find one and if you are not lucky you have to wait for one to turn up. You then have to do the same to get back. Anyway I am not talking about CCS stadium, I am talking about Pontyridd town center to Merthyr town center and by bus or train it is about 25 mins and that is with all the stops inbetween, if you choose to take your car then it would be a 15 minute trip. Surely between the two towns we could work out something that will suit all the fans in our valleys, also I was only using Munster as an example, as they use two different stadiums in two different places and still manage, and as Merthyr and Ponty are closer together then it should be easier.

Completely agree Lord,

I'm a Merthyr boy myself and frequently get the train from Radyr to Merthyr. That takes me 50 mins. From Merthyr to Central it is Pentrebach, The Ryw, Vales, Quakers, Abercynon, Ponty, Treeforest estate, Treeforest, Taffs Well, Radyr, Llandaff, Cathays and Queens before finally Central. If you were coming from Merthyr to watch Blues I recommend you get off at Radyr and take the Coryton train on platform 1, that takes you to Ninian park in about 15 mins, much better than going to central then taking the shuttle bus.

I like your idea of the Ponty-Merthyr conection and thus Aberdare, Rhondda etc. Penydarren park could be an issues with Football and rugby but not too much and would get a good community feel back in the town. I used to love going to Penny with my Dad to watch the football, would be great with rugby. Also, when Ponty played Merthyr in the cup not long back, I believe there was about 3-4000 up the wern or is that too high, I know Ponty brought a fair few fans down, showing people are prepared to travel.

martyr_94 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Ponty to Cardiff central an hour????

WTF kind of train are you getting? You know you don't have to stop at every pub from Cardiff central to the stadium also don't you? In 20 mins you could make the trip 3 times!
The shuttle does it in less than 20 mins, and drops you off outside the door from Ponty.

The situation of Munster and the Valleys is also as different as you could possibly get. 100's of years of history, an actual region that defended it's borders against invaders and each other, they have community, they have relationships, they have a bond beyond any sport, of which there are a number of sports that unify them!

For 10 years Wales has to ignore 100's of bickering, infighting and tribalism. We have no geographical borders as Ireland does, and therefore regions were never going to work, especially when one is occupied out west by about 2% of the population, and one trying to cover 30% of the population (near 50% represented by SW).

What re you on about, I take the train from Merthyr to Cardiff quite often, and by the time you stop off at every village on the way it take's about 1hr and a bit. Also when you get off the train in Cardiff central there is not a bus or taxi waiting for you to get straight on, you have to walk and find one and if you are not lucky you have to wait for one to turn up. You then have to do the same to get back. Anyway I am not talking about CCS stadium, I am talking about Pontyridd town center to Merthyr town center and by bus or train it is about 25 mins and that is with all the stops inbetween, if you choose to take your car then it would be a 15 minute trip. Surely between the two towns we could work out something that will suit all the fans in our valleys, also I was only using Munster as an example, as they use two different stadiums in two different places and still manage, and as Merthyr and Ponty are closer together then it should be easier.

Completely agree Lord,

I'm a Merthyr boy myself and frequently get the train from Radyr to Merthyr. That takes me 50 mins. From Merthyr to Central it is Pentrebach, The Ryw, Vales, Quakers, Abercynon, Ponty, Treeforest estate, Treeforest, Taffs Well, Radyr, Llandaff, Cathays and Queens before finally Central. If you were coming from Merthyr to watch Blues I recommend you get off at Radyr and take the Coryton train on platform 1, that takes you to Ninian park in about 15 mins, much better than going to central then taking the shuttle bus.

I like your idea of the Ponty-Merthyr conection and thus Aberdare, Rhondda etc. Penydarren park could be an issues with Football and rugby but not too much and would get a good community feel back in the town. I used to love going to Penny with my Dad to watch the football, would be great with rugby. Also, when Ponty played Merthyr in the cup not long back, I believe there was about 3-4000 up the wern or is that too high, I know Ponty brought a fair few fans down, showing people are prepared to travel.

Cheers Martyr, I am glad I have somebody on here who can prove I am not talking out of my rear end. This is no offence to the Bluesman, but I don't think he has ever been up here in the valleys and he does not realise the bind you are in when travelling down. Merthyr and Ponty are a stones throw away from each other and I am sur between them they can caome up with something to suit us all.

I used to get the train from Central to Ponty 3 times a week and it took less than 20 mins.

Ponty, Treforest, Radyr, Queen, Central a few mins between stops!

I couldn't drive to Methyr from Ponty in that time!

Any way I'm not arguing the train/bus system, my point is that why would Merthyr be a better option distance wise when the CCs is as close!

Well don't get me started on the CCS anyway, but a drive from there to ponty is nothing, plenty of parking etc, distance is certainly not the issue with ponty fans, but why would they travel the same distance the other direction for their region when they have the most succesfull club team, and arguably strongest business model proposition on their doorstep?

I have friends from Ponty and aberdare who refuse to go to Cardiff full stop, they have been to other regions but regularly attend Sardis, they would certainly not stand another region not representing them, they already have that!

See my point!

thebluesmancometh wrote:I used to get the train from Central to Ponty 3 times a week and it took less than 20 mins.

Ponty, Treforest, Radyr, Queen, Central a few mins between stops!

I couldn't drive to Methyr from Ponty in that time!

Any way I'm not arguing the train/bus system, my point is that why would Merthyr be a better option distance wise when the CCs is as close!

Well don't get me started on the CCS anyway, but a drive from there to ponty is nothing, plenty of parking etc, distance is certainly not the issue with ponty fans, but why would they travel the same distance the other direction for their region when they have the most succesfull club team, and arguably strongest business model proposition on their doorstep?

I have friends from Ponty and aberdare who refuse to go to Cardiff full stop, they have been to other regions but regularly attend Sardis, they would certainly not stand another region not representing them, they already have that!

See my point!

Well then, I do not know what train you were traveling on, and unless Pontypridd has moved closer to Cardiff recently I think you are over exagerating your facts. The facts are though that Merthyr and Pontypridd share borders, so how can they be further away ? I make these journeys on a regular basis, I will be doing it again tomorrow, I can drive to Pontypridd town center from my house in qurter of an hour, I just get straight onto the A470 then when I get passed Abercunnon roundabout it takes about 5 mins for the Pontypridd tun off, which in turn takes me straight to Pnotypridd town center. I also used to do that journey a lot to take my younger brother in law to the college their. I can tell you it did not take me anywhere near 25-30mins. Seriously, have you ever been to the valleys, I do not mean this in a patronising way, but for most, the pull is for us in the valleys to go to Cardiff, for the shopping and nights out, there is nothing up here that you do not have better down there, so I do not think you have been up here unless you had to travel past or through.

Crossing a borders one thing, centre to centre, or Stadia to stadia are 2 different things.

Why your so hung up on this I don't know, my point is representation!

Apart from uni, living in ponty and mountain ash, no I have never been up there, I think you need to get a grip if you think there is anything in Ponty or Merthyr that rivals Cardiff city centre/bay! This is where everything you say is massively flawed!!

You are looking through your rose tints, and letting emotion rule your head.

In reality Ponty is rough as a ducks behind and Merthyr, well I don't where to start. I'm regularly in Tredegar, and Rhymney and popped into Merthyr a few weeks ago to meet someone for a coffee. 11am drunk as a skunk in her PJ's mum walks in with her kids (I hope) effing and blinding at a woman behind the counter then asking for money from all inside for baby food.

I know thats a little unfair and an isolated incident, but it isn't, and the centre is not a nice place to be!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Crossing a borders one thing, centre to centre, or Stadia to stadia are 2 different things.

Why your so hung up on this I don't know, my point is representation!

Apart from uni, living in ponty and mountain ash, no I have never been up there, I think you need to get a grip if you think there is anything in Ponty or Merthyr that rivals Cardiff city centre/bay! This is where everything you say is massively flawed!!

You are looking through your rose tints, and letting emotion rule your head.

In reality Ponty is rough as a ducks behind and Merthyr, well I don't where to start. I'm regularly in Tredegar, and Rhymney and popped into Merthyr a few weeks ago to meet someone for a coffee. 11am drunk as a skunk in her PJ's mum walks in with her kids (I hope) effing and blinding at a woman behind the counter then asking for money from all inside for baby food.

I know thats a little unfair and an isolated incident, but it isn't, and the centre is not a nice place to be!

Bluesman you are being a typical arrogant city boy now. What was the place in Merthyr you had a coffee in ? You are just stereo typing what you think of the valleys. Merhtyr town center has had millions of pounds thrown at it, and so has Ponty. I have a little factory unit in Tredegar and I can tell you the people up here are as honest as anyone. I have a shop also in Merthyr and I have never seen anybody come into my place drunk as a skunk at any time. Anyway you started this argument not me.

LordDowlais wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Cheers Cardiff Dave. At least, if a valleys region does come to fruition, then you will not have to put up with us barbarians from the north. .Although, my old man has been a Cardiff supporter all his life so you might have to put up with him a little bit longer.

No worries. Is your old man a Merthyr lad?

Yes, he is, born and bread. His choice to support Cardiff made my choice to support Pontypridd that much easier though.

I nearly bought a house in Dowlais Top.
Is the Silver Slipper still in existence?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Cheers Cardiff Dave. At least, if a valleys region does come to fruition, then you will not have to put up with us barbarians from the north. .Although, my old man has been a Cardiff supporter all his life so you might have to put up with him a little bit longer.

No worries. Is your old man a Merthyr lad?

Yes, he is, born and bread. His choice to support Cardiff made my choice to support Pontypridd that much easier though.

I nearly bought a house in Dowlais Top.
Is the Silver Slipper still in existence?

Yeah, but it is on Dowlais high street, not Dowlais top, and it is a Spanish/Portugese restraunt now. Do not ask me to type it as I cannot spell it and everybody still calls it the Slipper anyway. Where were you going to buy your house ?

I am hardly a typical arrogant city boy, I was brought up on a farm and live in the countryside now!

I have lived in Cardiff for a number of years and can honestly say there are dumps there too, some places I wouldn't go after dark, and I'm 6'5!

The prob is you are too emotional when it comes to your area, of course you like it, you chose to live there, you may have been brought up there, but it doesn't mean it is a place people from all over want to go to!

I don't think theres a city in the world that doesn't have bad areas, like every city (town) has a nice area.

Take Newport Centre, that is one of the worst places I have ever been in the UK or europe, it is flat out disgusting. I don't dislike Merthyr as a place, as I said I lived in Ponty once, but they are not towns of any note, they have nothing of special interest and can hardly compare with the likes of the multi million pound city centres of Cardiff, Cardiff bay etc...

I think of the valleys what I see and hear from people living there, I love the valleys, over the years they've produced 100's of top players, but have been neglected since the Warriors.

You seem to be way too emotional when taking criticism, the difference between us, I will accept faults of my area, I will look at things objectively and without bias, it's a shame you can't do the same!

LordDowlais wrote:

Yeah, but it is on Dowlais high street, not Dowlais top, and it is a Spanish/Portugese restraunt now. Do not ask me to type it as I cannot spell it and everybody still calls it the Slipper anyway. Where were you going to buy your house ?

At the top of Dowlais on the right as you head towards the heads of the valleys road. Can't remember the name of the street.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I am hardly a typical arrogant city boy, I was brought up on a farm and live in the countryside now!

I have lived in Cardiff for a number of years and can honestly say there are dumps there too, some places I wouldn't go after dark, and I'm 6'5!

The prob is you are too emotional when it comes to your area, of course you like it, you chose to live there, you may have been brought up there, but it doesn't mean it is a place people from all over want to go to!

I don't think theres a city in the world that doesn't have bad areas, like every city (town) has a nice area.

Take Newport Centre, that is one of the worst places I have ever been in the UK or europe, it is flat out disgusting. I don't dislike Merthyr as a place, as I said I lived in Ponty once, but they are not towns of any note, they have nothing of special interest and can hardly compare with the likes of the multi million pound city centres of Cardiff, Cardiff bay etc...

I think of the valleys what I see and hear from people living there, I love the valleys, over the years they've produced 100's of top players, but have been neglected since the Warriors.

You seem to be way too emotional when taking criticism, the difference between us, I will accept faults of my area, I will look at things objectively and without bias, it's a shame you can't do the same!

What emotions ? I have only pointed out to you that Ponty is closer to Merthyr than it is to Cardiff. You started this whole debacle, then you slagged off the valleys, and I pointed out to you that they have been rejuvenated lately, but then you say I am getting all emotional. . Seriously, you should go back through this thread and to see if I got emotional. You just seem to stereo type us all up here which is a bit unfair.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Yeah, but it is on Dowlais high street, not Dowlais top, and it is a Spanish/Portugese restraunt now. Do not ask me to type it as I cannot spell it and everybody still calls it the Slipper anyway. Where were you going to buy your house ?

At the top of Dowlais on the right as you head towards the heads of the valleys road. Can't remember the name of the street.

Station Terrace ?

For my 2 pence worth - I live in Cardiff and use public transport to get to work in Tref Ind Estate (which I know isn't Ponty) everyday, I also used to live in Treforest and went to uni there (also commuted between Cathays and Trev) - it takes between 15 mins and 35mins to get from Treforest to Cardiff Central - depending on how many people get on and off at each stop.

Looking at Google Maps Merthyr and Ponty are 13 miles away from each other - Cardiff Central is 12 miles away from Sardis Road. (CSS is 1.2 miles from Central)

I can't say I went up Merthyr that much so don't know how long it would take on train/car/bus/airoplane but did go up to Aberdare a few times to see friends (and for my sins go to Judges ) and it doesn't take that long on a train from Ponty.

As has been said Merthyr and Ponty have rough places, but so do Llanelli, Swansea and Newport (for my part I reckon Llanelli's roughest place is where you don't get a decent head on a pint, but maybe I'm biased ) and around the CCS there's Riverside and Grangetown!
But just because an area's rough it's never stopped fans going there (I mean look at Aston Villa!) - moving a stadium a mile down the road however...

Smirnoff - not being from Llanelli myself, I would say the roughest place was the pub I went to where you didn't get pints, but cans instead! Very frightening, I drank my can and ran like heck.

Judges I remember going there when I was a just a we little bugger. I do not know if it has changed but the roof by the bar was not very high up ant the taller people used to smack their head when they got a bit too lively. Then it was onto the con club for some easy .Or if you were not carefull

Lord

You claimed Ponty and Merthyr were as if not better than anything found in Cardiff!

Looking at Google Maps Merthyr and Ponty are 13 miles away from each other - Cardiff Central is 12 miles away from Sardis Road. (CSS is 1.2 miles from Central)

According to the AA website it takes 1 minute more to get from Ponty to Merthyr than going the other way to Cardiff!

Cardiff has won 2 different which? awards for beauty/history, in contrast Merthyr has been on a list of worst places to live in Europe based on a work social life combo!

But as you say Cardiff is 35 miles further, has nothing Ponty and Merthyr doesn't already have, and has the most honest people around.

Cold hard facts - 1

Rose tinted glasses - 0

Do you get the feeling we've got off the point???

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Smirnoff - not being from Llanelli myself, I would say the roughest place was the pub I went to where you didn't get pints, but cans instead! Very frightening, I drank my can and ran like heck.

[right]

There's bound to be a diverse range of pubs in a town which has the highest ratio of pubs and off licences to population in the whole of the UK!

I was being a bit tongue in cheek with that comment - Seaside/Morfa's no dream in Llanelli, but I think it's nowhere near as rough as Rhydfelin in Ponty or Grangetown in Cardiff, but then again I'm from Llanelli so Morfa wouldn't feel as threatening to me. But fans will go to the stadium regardless (they just might park further away)

Is judges the one on the main road, on the corner. Think my ex used to run it, I remember her telling me they didn't serve pints, just cans and I wet myself laughing!

Went into a bar in Newport recently and could only get cans too

LordDowlais wrote:Judges I remember going there when I was a just a we little bugger. I do not know if it has changed but the roof by the bar was not very high up ant the taller people used to smack their head when they got a bit too lively. Then it was onto the con club for some easy .Or if you were not carefull

Shame there wasn't an STD smiley to add to the end of that quote!

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

I was just going on your previous posts on other threads where you say "Cardiff Blues will always be Cardiff RFC and everyone knows it" and also that "there's no point marketing/reaching out to the Valleys as they know Cardiff are Cardiff".

So by your words anyone from the surrounding area who wants to support the Blues will have to embrace Cardiff as well. Or am I wrong?

Yes you are correct and from browsing Companies House recently, Cardiff Blues are Cardiff RFC in the same way that the Scarlets are Llanelli RFC. Unless i'm mistaken of course. If i'm wrong let me know.
My point about "marketing/reaching out to the valleys" was to highlight that despite the efforts of Cardiff Blues, it hasn't worked because people aren't buying it, so in fact they are wasting money persevering with this strategy. One thing's for sure, Ponty fans haven't been fooled by the pretence and they have actively rebelled against it and who can blame them.

No your not wrong, there's exactly the same difference in each case - Llanelli RFC play Semi-Pro rugby in the Welsh Premiership and take players from the Llanelli District - the Scarlets play professional rugby in the Rabo Pro 12 and take players from the Scarlets region (ie the old Dyfed county) the same as the Blues - just because Cardiff RFC own the Blues does not make them one and the same as the Cardiff Blues as has been said many times by me and others on here - Cardiff RFC take players from Cardiff (and Cardiff schools) the Cardiff Blues take players from Cardiff and Barry/Penarth (Blues South) and from Ponty and the Valleys regions (Blues North) - Blues North actually train in Treforest Ind Estate.

As I've said before the Blues do do a bit of marketing and activity in the valleys area and with the schools but the message their sending out is - "this is Cardiff come and support the Cardiff team" which will never work (though some rugby fans will come down with the free tickets to watch pro rugby as I do - though I can never find any free tickets!) and will understandably get peoples backs up. If the Blues, when their region was extended, had created a new identity (either Cardiff and Valleys Blues or something different or even just The Blues) and said this is OUR Region, we'll play games in CAP and Sardis (before the CCS affair) we'll be your region and will play some LV/Blues youth games around the area (such as Merthyr) dependant on cost and celebrated all the clubs within the region then there may have been a change in attitude - particularly with the kids who would force their parents to take them to games.

MoG are you a season ticket holder at the dragons?

thebluesmancometh wrote:Lord

You claimed Ponty and Merthyr were as if not better than anything found in Cardiff!

Looking at Google Maps Merthyr and Ponty are 13 miles away from each other - Cardiff Central is 12 miles away from Sardis Road. (CSS is 1.2 miles from Central)

According to the AA website it takes 1 minute more to get from Ponty to Merthyr than going the other way to Cardiff!

Cardiff has won 2 different which? awards for beauty/history, in contrast Merthyr has been on a list of worst places to live in Europe based on a work social life combo!

But as you say Cardiff is 35 miles further, has nothing Ponty and Merthyr doesn't already have, and has the most honest people around.

Cold hard facts - 1

Rose tinted glasses - 0

Do you get the feeling we've got off the point???

When have I said that Merthyr and Ponty were better than anything found in Cardiff ? Come on show me. Also the distance on google maps is as the crow flies, not travelling down the A470 or on the train. Where is all this bull coming from ?, you have manufactured this into an argument for your favour, what is your problem ? Also Cardiff is about thirty miles from Merthyr, so again what point are you trying to make ? Anyway what ever we want in the Valleys has sweet f.a to do with what you lot down in Cardiff want, you do not want anything to do with us so keep your beak out.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Is judges the one on the main road, on the corner. Think my ex used to run it, I remember her telling me they didn't serve pints, just cans and I wet myself laughing!

Went into a bar in Newport recently and could only get cans too

Funny that, I've lived in Newport my whole life, bar a stint in Bristol and London, and have never been served a can of lager in a pub in Newport. The old indie nightclub TJs used to sell them, but no pubs I've been in. And I reckon I've been in most of them at one time or another. Which pub was it?

Dive of a little place near Rodney, just across from the Kwik fit?

Lord

You said Cardiff has nothing that Merthyr hasn't got better of!

I didn't use Google maps, I used AA routeplanner, which by car states the CCS is 1 minute closer to Sardis than Pennydarren is!
The train is also 12 minutes quicker Ponty to Central, than the bus Ponty to Merthyr!!

In every way your argument is flawed!

This business plan has just as much to do with the rest of Wales as you guys! Your basically asking for a peice of the pie, on the basis there is a small number who think it'll work out!

As I said, I'm all for it, but I can't help thinking it's a misguided venture!

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

No your not wrong, there's exactly the same difference in each case - Llanelli RFC play Semi-Pro rugby in the Welsh Premiership and take players from the Llanelli District - the Scarlets play professional rugby in the Rabo Pro 12 and take players from the Scarlets region (ie the old Dyfed county) the same as the Blues - just because Cardiff RFC own the Blues does not make them one and the same as the Cardiff Blues as has been said many times by me and others on here - Cardiff RFC take players from Cardiff (and Cardiff schools) the Cardiff Blues take players from Cardiff and Barry/Penarth (Blues South) and from Ponty and the Valleys regions (Blues North) - Blues North actually train in Treforest Ind Estate.

As I've said before the Blues do do a bit of marketing and activity in the valleys area and with the schools but the message their sending out is - "this is Cardiff come and support the Cardiff team" which will never work (though some rugby fans will come down with the free tickets to watch pro rugby as I do - though I can never find any free tickets!) and will understandably get peoples backs up. If the Blues, when their region was extended, had created a new identity (either Cardiff and Valleys Blues or something different or even just The Blues) and said this is OUR Region, we'll play games in CAP and Sardis (before the CCS affair) we'll be your region and will play some LV/Blues youth games around the area (such as Merthyr) dependant on cost and celebrated all the clubs within the region then there may have been a change in attitude - particularly with the kids who would force their parents to take them to games.

I know i'm not wrong.
The teams known as Cardiff (Welsh prem) and Cardiff Blues (Pro12) are both a part of one club; Cardiff RFC. That's the way it is.
They could "do a Llanelli" I guess and drop the Cardiff name from Cardiff Blues, but they would still be one part of Cardiff RFC whatever. There again as Llanelli kept on to the Scarlets nickname Cardiff would have to keep the Blue and Black nickname. Naarh.

We don't just "take players" from other clubs. We employ them, give them contracts and sometimes farm them out, back to the same club or another club depending on what's best for their development eg Sam Warburton; paid by Cardiff RFC, played for Glam Wanderers. Some Cardiff RFC contracted players turned out for Ponty on the weekend to play against Cardiff would you believe.
Another thing, we are not restricted by the mythical regional lines with regards to recruiting. Leigh Halfpenny from the O's for example. One of the latest is Marc Breeze. Named in tomorrows Cardiff Blues line up against O's yet he is still registered to play for Aberavon. Played for them back in March actually. Was their captain too.

I've never found free tickets either. They've found me.

What has got people's backs up more than anything is the contempt shown by those in charge of Cardiff towards their existing fan base and the WRU telling valley folk, Ponty supporters in particular, that Cardiff Blues is their team. An Arab Spring or what? Light the blue touch paper, stand well back and watch Cardiff RFC disintegrate.

The fact is, regionalism is a nonsense and never actually happened. Look at the original felt tip pen map when Llanelli were given all of North Wales including Anglesey. What a complete joke that was. Holyhead to Llanelli by train; how long would that take and how much would it cost?

Play games at Sardis? Would have to ask Pontypridd RFC first. Are the Scarlets thinking of spreading games around? I wouldn't have thought so.

Finally, from experience, kids of all ages don't like CCS as it is all seated for a start. They like to muck about and don't like being told off by stewards or anyone else to sit down. They like the freedom to move around as most kids do and in general they are not stupid and latch on to things that the grown ups are passionate about. For instance my mate's 7 year old; loved it at the Ulster game at CAP with all the extra loud Cardiff chanting and now he doesn't like CCS. He's tasted something that he likes and he wants more of the same..........Cardiff at CAP.