The Valleys business plan.

First topic message reminder :

http://www.valleysrugby.com/our-players-coaches

Our Region

The boundaries of the Valleys Rugby region will be decided by the fans and the clubs of the Valleys Rugby region.

Geography

Valleys Rugby’s primary objective will be to provide a home for those fans and clubs in Wales that consider themselves to be part of the Valleys community and who want to be part of a professional team for their region.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

Clubs will be invited to affiliate to Valleys Rugby and to host home matches as per the Funding section.

North Wales

Valleys Rugby will also look to provide a resource for the development of the game in North and Mid Wales.

Valleys Rugby would work with the WRU to provide a sustainable development plan. Initially it is proposed that Valleys Rugby provides a 3 year commitment along the following basis:-

Base a permanent player academy in North Wales and a player academy in South Wales. The two academies would meet at a middle ground venue on a monthly basis;
Work closely with North and Mid Wales clubs to identify and develop talented players;
Play 2 Rabo Direct league fixtures in North Wales annually. For consistency purposes, Valleys Rugby would propose that the Edinburgh and Ulster games are played in North Wales annually;
Undertake preparation for the establishment of a similar Community owned business model for a professional franchise for North and Mid Wales.
The ultimate objective of Valleys Rugby would be to assist the WRU with the creation of a viable stand alone model for North and Mid Wales. The North and Mid Wales development would ultimately spin out and away from Valleys Rugby. The introduction of a 3 year timeframe in this proposal is intended to focus efforts on establishing this model within this timeframe.

Our Players & Coaches

Valleys Rugby proposes to operate with a low salary budget for playing staff. On the basis that the Region will carry a playing squad of 32 the total salary cap for this squad would be capped at £1,200,000.

The Region would rely on developing young players and so the above cap is based upon the squad have 12 of its players on salaries of c. £18,000 (£216,000) as young professionals.

The remainder of the playing budget (£984,000) would be available between the remaining 20 players to cover salary costs and incidental costs including national insurance.

The following key points would underpin this salary limit:-

All players to be Welsh qualified or qualifying;

Valleys Rugby players would be under contract with a “player release” available should the player aspire to join another Region. The player release would operate on the basis that Valleys Rugby would allow the release, provided the acquiring Region in return provides to Valleys Rugby an academy or younger professional deemed talented and unable to secure adequate development time at the acquiring Region. If a suitable player were not available from the acquiring Region, Valleys Rugby would look for a fixed level of financial contribution allowing further investment into the Valleys Rugby Community;

Valleys Rugby would operate with an “Area Quota” and so have a squad with at least 20% of its players being developed or from North Wales whilst within its time commitment to North Wales and a further 30% being developed or from the Valleys. See our outline regarding a commitment to North Wales elsewhere in the proposal;

Valleys Rugby would be keen to discuss and review “player policies” annually with the WRU and actively seek to engage the input of the WRU in placing younger or developing players with Valleys Rugby – as guided by the WRU on this important strategic issue;
Valleys Rugby would be keen to work with the Wales 7’s structure, to “home” international 7’s players and develop these within the 15 a side structure;

Valleys Rugby would look to develop a schools and young player academy with the WRU and actively seek to progress WRU policies of youth development within its region. To this end, Valleys rugby would be keen to adopt a “commitment to playing” development “stars” as identified by the WRU and with the other Regions if this became appropriate.
Valleys Rugby would not regard itself as a development region. However, it would absolutely embrace the concept of finding, developing and playing the rugby stars of the future.

The Academy

Valleys Rugby will be closely aligned with the playing academies of all existing Regions in any event and its business model is predicated on the ability to give young professional players game time and development time in the professional environment.

Valleys Rugby would propose to operate 2 playing academies, one based in South Wales and one in North Wales. The North Wales academy would ultimately spin-out into the full North Wales Region when this entity is established.

The 2 playing academies would meet at least monthly in a central geographic location to develop skills and coaching together.

Valleys Rugby would look to work closely with the WRU and allow the WRU to run the academy along the lines it thought most productive. Valleys Rugby would also seek to use the National Academy coaches and managers as often as possible.

Coaches

Valleys Rugby would conform to the coaching and support structure as laid out in the Regional Participation Agreement.

Valleys Rugby would appoint its coaches in conjunction with the WRU and in the interim will be assisted by Lynn Howells, currently the coach of the Romanian National team, formerly coach of Wales, Edinburgh in the Rabo Direct, Doncaster in the English Championship, Celtic Warriors and Pontypridd RFC operating in the role of interim Director of Rugby.

As Valleys Rugby develops, its coaching staff can be identified in more detail. Valleys Rugby would be very keen to work with the National Coaches, and provide these with the opportunity to work with and in the Region as often as desirable and agreed with the WRU.

Our Timescale

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the 2013/4 season.

In the 2012/3 season, if financial backing is secured sufficiently, Valleys Rugby would stage some games to attract interest and demonstrate its operation to potential sponsors.

Competitons

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the Rabo Direct league and in Europe.

In the first 3 years of its existence Valleys Rugby would agree to take on a role within the European Shield tournament rather than the Heineken Cup. This would allow each of the existing Regions to concentrate on the Heineken Cup for a period without having to worry about qualification.

Welsh Rugby would have a committed participant in the Shield tournament and so meet its obligations to this.

It is believed that Valleys Rugby and each of the existing Regions would benefit by this decision.

Name

Valleys Rugby has not proposed a name or nickname.

If a playing name were required then Valleys Rugby CBS would pick this using the majority vote of its members in due course.

Our Stadia

One major advantage of a new Region within Wales would simply be an increase in the number of derby games to the benefit of all of the Regions.

To develop this concept, and to engage in the entire Region, Valleys Rugby proposes hosting its Rabo Direct games in the most geographically advantageous area.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

An illustrative schedule of fixtures to be undertaken by Valleys Rugby might look as follows:-

Fixture Venue
Valleys v. Blues Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Ospreys Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Dragons Eugene Cross Park (Ebbw Vale) / Pontypool Park (Pontypool)
Valleys v. Scarlets Virginia Park (Caerphilly) / Brewery Field (Bridgend)
Valleys v. Leinster Sardis Road (Pontypridd) / The Gnoll (Neath)
Valleys v. Edinburgh Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Ulster Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Munster Penydarren Park (Merthyr)
Valleys v. Treviso Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Aironi Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Connacht Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Glasgow Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
European & LV Games Venues as appropriate
Valleys Rugby would hope to commit to a particular venue on a recurring basis (such as Eugene Cross Park for the Dragons) on the basis that this venue would generate home support for the Valleys and also generate a genuine derby atmosphere.

Fixing the fixture to a specific venue would add certainty to the “location” for supporters and hopefully avoid the crowd dilution effect suffered by Regions when moving to different venues previously.

Each of the grounds hosting Valleys Rugby would have to show adequate support from the ground owner and a commitment to ensure the playing surface and facilities are of adequate standard for Regional rugby.

Ultimately, the venues would be decided upon by the make-up of the affiliated clubs and their financial commitment to the Region.

Sardis Road Stadium

The initial principal stadium of Valleys Rugby would be Sardis Road. In this respect:-

RCT Local Authority has in principle agreed to spend £100,000 on the facility over a 3 year period, improving its drainage and playing surface;
RCT Local Authority has also indicated that it will be prepared to vest control of the asset of Sardis Road into the Community Benefit Society, provided it is satisfied with the "asset lock" provisions adopted by Valleys Rugby CBS.
A scheme for the redevelopment of Sardis Road has been investigated by award winning architects Austin-Smith Lord LLP and images of how a redevelopment could look can be seen here.

However, in its early stages, Valleys Rugby would spend predominantly on pitch improvement and general seating. Hospitality could be provided using marquee facilities and also by linking up with local hotels within the Region. Capital expenditure on hospitality would be required in the future but would not be targeted as an immediate priority.

Training Facilities

The training facilities of the University of Glamorgan would be utilised by Valleys Rugby. Valleys Rugby intends to develop close links with the University through player scholarships and similar schemes.

Travel Plan

Valleys Rugby recognises that an intelligent and well resourced travel plan will be required to maximise attendances at peripatetic Valleys Rugby home matches. Edwards Coaches has already indicated its support for Valleys Rugby and has undertaken to work with the new Region to develop and deliver a comprehensive and cost effective travel offering for Valleys Rugby supporters as part of our unique offering.

Pilot Business Plan

Despite the exceptional and welcome success of the Welsh national team, professional rugby in Wales is still subject to enormous challenges.

These challenges impact upon the financial well being of the game, its long term sustainability and its connection with the supporter base within Wales.

It is realistic to say that the existing Regional structure has had limited success to date and there continues to be a need to develop and improve the offering to rugby supporters throughout Wales, in order to further engage supporters of our national sport.

This document and its schedules provide a proposal for a new Region within the WRU structure.

The proposal is also intended to engage with the supporters of rugby in the Valleys who currently appear to be disenfranchised with the existing concept and also to reach out and attempt to assist the WRU with the development of professional rugby in North Wales.

This paper is presented as an outline document but should be considered as a proposal from which to launch a new Region that is both financially viable and closely aligned with, and owned by, its supporter base.

Valleys Rugby will be owned and controlled by the community it serves.

Valleys Rugby CBS will initially issue shares at £100 each. The shares will be “annual shares” and so need to be subscribed for once a year. Each shareholder, upon buying into Valleys Rugby, would be entitled to:-

Ability to vote and attend meetings of Valleys Rugby CBS;
Priority access to tickets and discounts on match tickets;
Ability to vote on the Board of Directors of Valleys Rugby and alter the executive structure of Valleys Rugby as required by its supporters;
Club magazine;
Discount in the club shop;
Ticket lottery;
Card and Share Certificate, certifying membership (which, if this is linked correctly with the regional businesses, could entitle an owner to discount in local shops in the community for example);
We will target a subscription by 10,000 fans at £100 per person – and using this model have an ability to raise £1,000,000 per annum from the owners of Valleys Rugby CBS.

It is important to note that anyone can subscribe for shares in Valleys Rugby CBS and support the establishment of a top-flight rugby team for the Valleys. Membership will be open to supporters from across Wales and the World.

This subscription and ownership will provide Valleys Rugby CBS with the equivalent of a rugby benefactor.

Fundraising - Clubs

As outlined in the Legal Structure section, Valleys Rugby CBS would own at least 60% of Valleys Rugby Limited.

The remaining balance would be owned by a combination of Affiliated Clubs, the WRU, Local Authorities and other interested parties.

A participation and subscription agreement will govern this ownership. The method and make-up of this element is subject to further investigation and discussion with the WRU and affiliated clubs.

It is envisaged that this element of ownership will also attract revenue into Valleys Rugby on an annual basis. However, if there is insufficient interest, the percentage of Valleys Rugby Limited owned by Valleys Rugby CBS would be increased and further shares made available to public ownership.

Early thoughts include a three tiered scale of club membership along the following lines:-

Junior Club Member - £500 pa;
Senior Club Member - £1,000 pa;
Senior Club Hosting Valleys Rugby Matches - £10,000 pa.
Commercial Sponsors

The commercial activities of Valleys Rugby Commercial Limited are also clearly key to the proposal as sponsorship, ticket sales, TV payments etc will make up the remainder of the balance sheet of Valleys Rugby.

Valleys Rugby will seek a minimum of £300,000 sponsorship per annum and believes the business community would be willing to support this as a venture.

Valleys Rugby at present cannot take full commitment from any sponsors as the concept has not been approved by the WRU. Until such approval takes place formal sponsorship and other commitments cannot be advanced.

However, in a show of support, Valleys Rugby has achieved an indication of sponsorship of £250,000 over a 3 year period from Heads of the Valleys Developments. Letters of support have been received from the following businesses:-

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
The ability to progress this element in detail is difficult unless and until the WRU indicates that it would be willing to support Valleys Rugby being developed as a concept. If this backing can be indicated it is believed that significant sponsorship opportunities can be progressed.

WRU Support

Valleys Rugby would require the support of the WRU to develop its Region, infrastructure and players.

The level of support can be discussed and agreed and will vary depending upon which areas the WRU would want Valleys Rugby to focus and develop.

The current business proposal is predicated on annual “match funding” to be provided by the WRU which would require that the WRU provide funding to Valleys Rugby at a level broadly in line with the members funding provided to Valleys Rugby.

On this basis, Valleys Rugby would seek a minimum of £1,200,000 annual funding from the WRU (via television and other rights) but would not request more than £1,500,000 from the WRU in any year, unless specifically agreed otherwise in partnership with the WRU. Any additional funding agreed would relate to player development funding if required.

This match funding structure would provide a unique partnership between the WRU, the supporters of Valleys Rugby and the traditional rugby clubs affiliated with Valleys Rugby.

If the WRU were keen for Valleys Rugby to assist with the development of professional rugby in North Wales, then Valleys Rugby would also seek the assistance of the WRU in raising any sporting or other grants available to it for the development of rugby in North Wales.

Operating Profit & Loss

A draft operating Profit & Loss can be found within the Business Plan document. It is based on assumptions that are believed to be realistic and shows a break even figure after receipt of £1,000,000 per annum from supporter subscription and £700,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union as Valleys Rugby's share of TV rights, etc.

This loss is prior to any publicly raised funds, club funds or WRU funding. Therefore, the funding structure proposed will cover this shortfall and potentially provides an element of contingency funding.

Sponsorship

We would welcome the support of any persons, organisations or companies who wish to invest in a new community-led model for Welsh Rugby.

Valleys Rugby has already secured the support of twenty commercial sponsors including:

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
For example, Heads of the Valleys Developments Ltd has already pledged a sum of £250,000.

Stone Motif wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:The Celtic Warriors played only 3 times at Sardis Road and there was 6 months between their 2nd and last fixtures.
Hardly surprising that the Ponty faithful didn't turn out in big numbers to support a clearly one sided so called "merger".
Then to add insult to injury, when the WRU culled the Warriors (with the help of standalone clubs Cardiff and Llanelli), Ponty fans were told that their pretend "region" was now Cardiff.

Come off it, all Ponty brought to the table was debt. There's no point martyring them because you want Cardiff to be a superclub.

I know Ponty were in debt an eventually went into administration, but I was referring to the fans.
Your average Joe if you like who hasn't had a say in anything, ever, but is expected to do as he or she is told and accept what is given even if it's a total lie.
That is what is so wrong in Wales.
A bit more honesty would go a long way I feel.

Stone Motif wrote:

Come off it, all Ponty brought to the table was debt. There's no point martyring them because you want Cardiff to be a superclub.

I'm merely stating what we have.
Cardiff a superclub? Far from being super, I would say. Rubbish actually.
The fact is that Llanelli RFC and Cardiff RFC stood alone in 2003 and still do and Ponty fans know it all too well.
That being said, none of us fans/supporters of any club had a say in anything when so called "regionalism" was forced upon us.
We were all given what we were given and urged to get on with it like it or not, but we still argue about to this day, 9 years later.

Morgannwg wrote:Alyn, any team with Fussel Riley and Sweeney for starters are a crap team... Speaking of which, how has Tom Riley broke into the Waratahs S15 team?

Morg in my defense the challenge was a team from the Valleys, not a good team from the Valleys!

Stone Motif wrote:Blimey, that's some team, isn't it? Even leaving out the holes, half of them predate the regions, the other half developed through the regional academies or were plucked from the premiership. And none of them were 'taken'.

So what your trying to say is I am not going to win the £100 share in the new valleys region?

isnt tom james from the valleys also? didnt he play for merthyr?

dan lydiate although from mid wales started his rugby at ebbw vale

didnt iestyn thomas start out at ebbw also?

Yep, Iestyn Thomas was born in Pontypool, played for Pontypool and then Ebbw Vale.

Hooker in that team could be the Huw 'I only play well at World Cups' Bennett who's from Ebbw Vale too I think.

All these people who are saying because it didnt work in 2003 it wont work now are pretty pathetic and clutching at straws to be honest

Kinda like saying I was gonna book a holiday in Germany for me and the mrs but after what they did in 1939 im gonna leave it now...

Steffan, I'm open to suggestions and quite like change. My question, which I asked earlier, is which region do you think should be scrapped to make way for the Valleys region? And Why? IMO 5 doesn't work.

im in the same opinion as griff would love to see things shaked up, i like the idea of 'Valley Commando's' as a name too

I have to say when first mooted I saw this as a bunch of whinging Ponty fans and a publicity campaign by the local MP.

However as time goes on, I have looked more and more at it and I really think it could work well.

Being realistic I dont think the money is there to support 5 regions and I think there are a few holes in their business plan. However credit given where credit is due - they do seem to have the appetite for a professional rugby team in the Valleys.

A few questions

Firstly
"In the first 3 years of its existence Valleys Rugby would agree to take on a role within the European Shield tournament rather than the Heineken Cup. This would allow each of the existing Regions to concentrate on the Heineken Cup for a period without having to worry about qualification."

This sounds like if there are 5 regions the Valleys will be in the Almin and the other 4 get auto entry to the H-cup. Why would Welsh teams get 4 auto entires into the H-cup, The Irish teams should get 4 auto entries before the Welsh based on performance in the h-cup.

Exactly Kingshu, this bit I can't fathom out either. What the business plan doesn't mention is the number of regions this is based on. Nowhere does it say that they will be a 5th region or indeed a 4th region. The doom monger in me therefore thinks that this implies the scrapping of one region in place of the new Valleys region, as there would be too many things outside the control of the WRU for getting a 5th region off the ground (like the other Pro 12 nations, ERC, etc.)

The famous WRU accountants review of Regional finances is awaited with bated breath at the moment it's not going to suggest any restructuring of the game though just allegedly give the WRU financial tools to make a decision.

This plan lobs another option the WRU's way . At the moment the Regions are starting to look like development sides for the French pro 14 so maybe a Welsh development region would be an option . If it was then do you stick with one of the current regions or go for a new franchise as the development side as I can't see a fifth side being an option in the current financial climate. Funds saved could go to the other three regions or be used towards central contracts .

As far as getting hammered is concerned I would expect the new regions results after a couple of years to be at least as good as Connacht's who didn't do too badly on Friday . I would expect a Valley's side to perform above expectations at home games .

I'd part with my £100 per annum for this that's about two trips to see the Ospreys with the current cost of petrol. I'd vote for the Valley Commando's name too .

pontylad wrote:The famous WRU accountants review of Regional finances is awaited with bated breath at the moment it's not going to suggest any restructuring of the game though just allegedly give the WRU financial tools to make a decision.

This plan lobs another option the WRU's way . At the moment the Regions are starting to look like development sides for the French pro 14 so maybe a Welsh development region would be an option . If it was then do you stick with one of the current regions or go for a new franchise as the development side as I can't see a fifth side being an option in the current financial climate. Funds saved could go to the other three regions or be used towards central contracts .

As far as getting hammered is concerned I would expect the new regions results after a couple of years to be at least as good as Connacht's who didn't do too badly on Friday . I would expect a Valley's side to perform above expectations at home games .

I'd part with my £100 per annum for this that's about two trips to see the Ospreys with the current cost of petrol. I'd vote for the Valley Commando's name too.

Two things:
The WRU are not doing the review, that would be a bit biased! It's being done by pricewaterhouscooper so, hopefully, will be pretty objective.
Also, your £100 will only buy you a share in the region. You'd then need to actually buy tickets/season ticket on top.

TBH This development plan is how the regions should have been set out with at the beginging. It looks to be creating a new proper region. However they have been able to learn from the other regions mistakes over the last 9 years.

I hope this this goes ahead, I can see one of either Scarlets or Blues losing their stand alone status, when the price water house cooper report is published.

Don't know if The valleys team would be up to Connachts standard, Connacht recently started getting more funding and will impove over the next 2-3 years, and Why would a development region be left to develop rugby in another development area (North Wales)? I can see this part being removed from the buiness model.

As for name I'd suggest The Red Kite's. As the Red Kite is the syblom of Welsh wildlife and the Valleys are famous for them.

I have to say I would be happy to see this region take off.

I think the Scarlets and the Ospreys both look to have a long term future and could well be very talented teams in the short-medium term.

I have a lot more worries about Blues and Dragons.

Anyway have to say good luck to Valleys Rugby.

I knew it was an independent review Price Waterhouse Cooper's name escaped me couldn't be bothered to Google it . Also I know the £100 is o top of tickets etc but personally I'd save this in travelling alone though I understand that is just me .

Conacht's standard might be three or four years in coming.

Anyway with the review forthcoming it's not a bad time to at least be putting some ideas forward for debate.

Ponty - I have a rugby blog and am doing a small write up about Valleys Rugby.

I did an interview with Owen Smith and others about their business plan. I asked them what they had to say to fans who would question why tickets are not included with shareholder prices. They are happy enough that it wont be an issue.

Orginally the WRU wanted

Province location Main Feeder clubs
Stradey Park, Llanelli Llanelli RFC, Swansea RFC, Neath RFC
Cardiff Arms Park, Cardiff Cardiff RFC, Bridgend RFC, Pontypridd RFC
Rodney Parade, Newport Newport RFC, Caerphilly RFC, Ebbw Vale RFC
Racecourse Ground, Wrexham Fed from all South Wales clubs


We may see depending on the PriceWaterhouseandCooper report,

Province location Main Feeder clubs
Llanelli/Swansea Llanelli RFC, Swansea RFC,
Valley team Bridgend RFC, Pontypridd RFC, Neath RFC, Ebbw Vale RFC
Cardiff/Newport Cardiff RFC, Newport RFC
Racecourse Ground, Wrexham RCG1404 + Fed from all South Wales clubs


It's close to what the WRU orginally wanted but couldn't due to pressure from the clubs, with the pricewaterhousecooper report and giving the stand alone clubs 9 years, Are the WRU now in a position to put in the changes they orginally wanted????

It would appear to me that the tables have turned. Whereas when we went regional the clubs had all of the power, money, players. Now it would seem that as the WRU have started to put the finances right that they now have the power.

They have money, they control the TV rights (I think) , they in theory have the national interest at heart and the be all and end all is, kids grow up wanting to play for Wales. Could be that the regions will end up being re-designated, with this Ponty business plan being implemented in the Valleys.

If this does go ahead, I hope that they leave the North alone, the WRU are doing a fantastic job up there and the people up there are getting behind it too.

red_stag wrote:Ponty - I have a rugby blog and am doing a small write up about Valleys Rugby.

I did an interview with Owen Smith and others about their business plan. I asked them what they had to say to fans who would question why tickets are not included with shareholder prices. They are happy enough that it wont be an issue.

I'd imagine as a shareholder you'd get some fringe benefits eg first in queue for International ticket allocations , possible discount on merchandising ,shirts etc

Still don't see the proposal from Owen Smith working in the slightest. Pontypridd just played their biggest game of the season at home and didn't get a full house. Half of them were Neath fans too. What difference would this propsed Region at Sardis do to make a difference? As mentioned, Bridgend are owned by Ospreys, if they weren't they would have gone under, so now there is no doubt about it being an Osprey feeder club. It also strikes me as odd that you would travel through Ospreylia to get to Neath and play Ospreys at your home ground. Same with the Gwent clubs that feed the Dragons too. Each of them get financial backing and players from the Region. The system is working well in this part with currently only the one ground being suitable to host top flight games. Ebbw Vale aren't even in the Prem anymore so why would you want them to be part of this new Region?

pontylad wrote:

red_stag wrote:Ponty - I have a rugby blog and am doing a small write up about Valleys Rugby.

I did an interview with Owen Smith and others about their business plan. I asked them what they had to say to fans who would question why tickets are not included with shareholder prices. They are happy enough that it wont be an issue.

I'd imagine as a shareholder you'd get some fringe benefits eg first in queue for International ticket allocations , possible discount on merchandising ,shirts etc

All of which the fans of the other regions get included in the price of a season ticket.

Morgannwg wrote:Still don't see the proposal from Owen Smith working in the slightest. Pontypridd just played their biggest game of the season at home and didn't get a full house. Half of them were Neath fans too. What difference would this propsed Region at Sardis do to make a difference? As mentioned, Bridgend are owned by Ospreys, if they weren't they would have gone under, so now there is no doubt about it being an Osprey feeder club. It also strikes me as odd that you would travel through Ospreylia to get to Neath and play Ospreys at your home ground. Same with the Gwent clubs that feed the Dragons too. Each of them get financial backing and players from the Region. The system is working well in this part with currently only the one ground being suitable to host top flight games. Ebbw Vale aren't even in the Prem anymore so why would you want them to be part of this new Region?

See they haven't taken things like the Premiership restructure into account at all.

As Morgannwg says Bridgend, Ebbw (and even Cross Keys) are part of other regions and have are linked financially to them - so the Valleys region would be made up of Ponty, Neath and Merthyr - which while it's better than stand alone clubs still has the same problem that the Warriors had - ie in 2003 the Warriors were made up of Bridgend and Ponty, there was a divide in influence/power and fans from both sets of clubs wouldn't travel to the the other stadium for regional games and didn't buy into the region, in 2012 (proposed) the Valleys region is proposing setting up with 2 main clubs Neath and Pontypridd, put forward by a Ponty MP and consortium with it's base in Sardis Rd (already seems a divide of interest/power) - I'm not sure you'll get the buy in of the Neath fans or that the whole regions fans will travel around all over the valleys and North Wales to see their team (the cost's/logistics will be huge).

Another thing to add to the person who expects this development region to do better than Connaucht in 3 years.

Connacht have only started to improve over the last few years with a lot greater funding from the IRFU, and the Dragons (and Aironi) are both struggling with a lot bigger pots of money than the proposed Valleys region will have - both sides (Connacht and Dragons) are made up of experienced players with firmly established academies in place to develop good young players to complement them.

The Valleys region's academy will have to start from scratch as currently their young players are in the Blues and Ospreys academies - so they'll be relying soley on youngsters and probably not even the cream of the youngsters.

Steffan wrote:You just sound a twisted little Llanelli fan scared his superclub are gonna lose a slice of the WRU gravy.

Since when can you slice gravy?

Steffan wrote:All these people who are saying because it didnt work in 2003 it wont work now are pretty pathetic and clutching at straws to be honest

Kinda like saying I was gonna book a holiday in Germany for me and the mrs but after what they did in 1939 im gonna leave it now...

Or you could say it's like getting almost bankrupt by going on a holiday you couldn't afford in 2003, and now planning another holiday even though your in a slightly worse financial situation and expecting a different result

Did anyone ask this Owen Smith for his proposals for a new region? Can anyone have a go?

He seems the sort of person who doesn't need to be asked before sounding off - I do really hope for the valleys rugby fans that Owen Smiths fevour doesn't disappear after election time...

But I will formally invite you luckless to have a go my own plan is for a Caldey Island/Barry Island all star islanders team

"Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the 2013/4 season."

"One major advantage of a new Region within Wales would simply be an increase in the number of derby games to the benefit of all of the Regions."

How do they think the other Unions are going to vote for this, even if the WRU give it the green light? Where do they fit into the Rabo and LV? An increase to 13 teams, would mean adding another 3 game weeks to the Rabo, with the two games against the new team and the bye week taken into account. That means probably starting the season a week earlier and squeezing another two games weeks around the international period.

A 5th Welsh team would not provide the league with any further significant, TV Revenue, Sponsorship or ny new angle to help promote the league.

Please don't see this as an anti-Welsh post, I would be saying the same, regardless of which current Union then 13th team came from.

It would be interesting how competitive this new team would be? A squad of 32 looks rather on the light side, especially considering the squad would be facing a minimum of 34 games, if you assume the Amlin, Rabo and LV formats stay the same. Also out of that 32, you would think that at least 9 of the places are going to full time front row specialists, does not leave much of a squad to cover the other 17 match day squad places!

"The remainder of the playing budget (£984,000) would be available between the remaining 20 players to cover salary costs and incidental costs including national insurance."

From a business planning point of view, I would hardly call National Insurance costs as "incidental". Depending on how the wages are split between the players, you will still be looking at a 100k+ NI bill for the club. That is about 10% of the budget mentioned above gone, before you take into account the players salary. Player insurance is also astronomical and will take a huge whack out of the budget.

So in other words Dorothy, the proposal is a fantasy?

Nice way to sum it up Morgannwg

Smirnoffpriest wrote:He seems the sort of person who doesn't need to be asked before sounding off - I do really hope for the valleys rugby fans that Owen Smiths fevour doesn't disappear after election time...

But I will formally invite you luckless to have a go my own plan is for a Caldey Island/Barry Island all star islanders team

I represent a group of tramps and drinkers who sit on 'Gilligan's Island' in Newport (outside the police station in Pill). We feel disenfranchised as island folk. Can we join forces with you please???

Only if your prepared to do your drinking on Barry Island at certain times throughout the year!

Morgannwg wrote:So in other words Dorothy, the proposal is a fantasy?

Not a fantasy and never implied it was. Just pointing out that there are major problems to overcome in terms of getting into the league and amlin, something I am sure the people involved are aware of.

Also just making some observations about some of the numbers that have been put forward.

I feel that Munster should have a Welsh branch.

It can be almost identical to real Munster. Dan Biggar will be the Welsh Ronan O'Gara and we can simply drop the vowels from Munster Rugby to give it an authentic Welsh name.

Mnstrrgby for the Heineken Cup!!!

Good luck in getting rugby back into the valleys, a lot of effort has gone into the proposal. There are no doubt holes to be filled but at least there is a plan, maybe the other regions should submit their plans to maintain their current status and funding. If we had central contracts the WRU could allocate players to "their" regions, I am not sure if the Blues would have a team.

Glam Al, no doubt a lot of effort has gone into it and the people behind it think it's viable but the only thing we can comment on is the info that been put out and posted at the start of this thread. And that doesn't seem viable and would seem to fall down with 1 basic thing that the other regions have and this plan doesn't - admitance into the Rabo12 and Amlin/HEC, they also for all the failings of the current regions able to generate a bigger budget than the proposed valleys region.

I truely hope that there is more to it than this business plan and they have some big sponsors waiting in the wings and a lot of financial backing from the WRU (as they'll need it) and agreements from the 3 other unions and the European rugby body to enter competitions as well.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:He seems the sort of person who doesn't need to be asked before sounding off - I do really hope for the valleys rugby fans that Owen Smiths fevour doesn't disappear after election time...

bang on. elections coming up and he's playing the ponty fans like an almighty fiddle. Shame they can't take their blinkers off to notice this, they can't all be that thick surely?

Then again, if you base who you vote for on your rugby team then you should have your voting privvies torn up.

We could drop the Blues and replace them with Valley Commandos.

Or shall we wait until they go bust which they basically are. Then all the blues fans can come and support 'their' region. Come on its only up the road.

I'd love to see it take off. The Blues have had a go and ballsed it up spectacularly so let someone else have a turn.

I know it's not what the Ponty fans want but wouldn't it be better to have the second team's of the regions play in a new second team league with the A teams of Ireland, and Caledonia Reds and Scottish Borders?

Valleys Blues - playing at Pontypridd
Ospreys - playing at Bridgend, and Neath
Gwent Dragons - playing around Gwent, Ebbw Vale, Pontypool, Caerphilly, Abertillery
West Wales Scarlets - playing at New Bridge Meadow, Haverfordwest
RGC 1404 - Park Erias, Colwyn Bay
Munster A
Leinster A
Ulster Ravens
Connacht A
Caledonia Reds
Scottish Borders

Easy.

That should have happened from the start anyway, an A-League.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I truely hope that there is more to it than this business plan and they have some big sponsors waiting in the wings and a lot of financial backing from the WRU (as they'll need it) and agreements from the 3 other unions and the European rugby body to enter competitions as well.

I hope they don't have any of those things. There's already a regional side representing North Wales - a genuine region - and it should take priority over a new region representing Pontypridd. Sorry, 'the Valleys.'

I agree Luckless - I mean the above only if the North Wales region continues to get it's money or more money and gets brought on at the speed it's being planned to.

But it won't get brought on 'at the speed it's being planned to' if this Valleys region is allowed to leap-frog it. Pontypridd is already represented by a regional side. They'll just have to make do with that.

Whoever made the point about Owen Smith using this as an election tool, hes MP for PONTY a labour heartland and wouldnt need to go to such lengths to secure the vote as that area is never going to vote tory or lib dem

Merthyr Tydfil would be an ideal place to play Valley's regional rugby. Penydarren Park has a 10,000 capacity and is right next to the town center. There is a hotel right next door and there are hotels in and around Merthyr town center. Also there are good rail and bus links with walking distance from the ground, and the town cnter itself has enough bars and resteraunts to cater for everyone. Yes, infact I quite like the idea of pro rugby in Merthyr.

even as a dragons fan and being from 'south of the m4' i still like the idea of a fan owned region, just appeals to me, even if the business proposal theyve put in place is ambitious and has major holes in it

LordDowlais
Posts: 371
Join date: 2011-05-18
Age: 35
Location: Methyr Tydfil

red stag where is your blog?