The Valleys business plan.

First topic message reminder :

http://www.valleysrugby.com/our-players-coaches

Our Region

The boundaries of the Valleys Rugby region will be decided by the fans and the clubs of the Valleys Rugby region.

Geography

Valleys Rugby’s primary objective will be to provide a home for those fans and clubs in Wales that consider themselves to be part of the Valleys community and who want to be part of a professional team for their region.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

Clubs will be invited to affiliate to Valleys Rugby and to host home matches as per the Funding section.

North Wales

Valleys Rugby will also look to provide a resource for the development of the game in North and Mid Wales.

Valleys Rugby would work with the WRU to provide a sustainable development plan. Initially it is proposed that Valleys Rugby provides a 3 year commitment along the following basis:-

Base a permanent player academy in North Wales and a player academy in South Wales. The two academies would meet at a middle ground venue on a monthly basis;
Work closely with North and Mid Wales clubs to identify and develop talented players;
Play 2 Rabo Direct league fixtures in North Wales annually. For consistency purposes, Valleys Rugby would propose that the Edinburgh and Ulster games are played in North Wales annually;
Undertake preparation for the establishment of a similar Community owned business model for a professional franchise for North and Mid Wales.
The ultimate objective of Valleys Rugby would be to assist the WRU with the creation of a viable stand alone model for North and Mid Wales. The North and Mid Wales development would ultimately spin out and away from Valleys Rugby. The introduction of a 3 year timeframe in this proposal is intended to focus efforts on establishing this model within this timeframe.

Our Players & Coaches

Valleys Rugby proposes to operate with a low salary budget for playing staff. On the basis that the Region will carry a playing squad of 32 the total salary cap for this squad would be capped at £1,200,000.

The Region would rely on developing young players and so the above cap is based upon the squad have 12 of its players on salaries of c. £18,000 (£216,000) as young professionals.

The remainder of the playing budget (£984,000) would be available between the remaining 20 players to cover salary costs and incidental costs including national insurance.

The following key points would underpin this salary limit:-

All players to be Welsh qualified or qualifying;

Valleys Rugby players would be under contract with a “player release” available should the player aspire to join another Region. The player release would operate on the basis that Valleys Rugby would allow the release, provided the acquiring Region in return provides to Valleys Rugby an academy or younger professional deemed talented and unable to secure adequate development time at the acquiring Region. If a suitable player were not available from the acquiring Region, Valleys Rugby would look for a fixed level of financial contribution allowing further investment into the Valleys Rugby Community;

Valleys Rugby would operate with an “Area Quota” and so have a squad with at least 20% of its players being developed or from North Wales whilst within its time commitment to North Wales and a further 30% being developed or from the Valleys. See our outline regarding a commitment to North Wales elsewhere in the proposal;

Valleys Rugby would be keen to discuss and review “player policies” annually with the WRU and actively seek to engage the input of the WRU in placing younger or developing players with Valleys Rugby – as guided by the WRU on this important strategic issue;
Valleys Rugby would be keen to work with the Wales 7’s structure, to “home” international 7’s players and develop these within the 15 a side structure;

Valleys Rugby would look to develop a schools and young player academy with the WRU and actively seek to progress WRU policies of youth development within its region. To this end, Valleys rugby would be keen to adopt a “commitment to playing” development “stars” as identified by the WRU and with the other Regions if this became appropriate.
Valleys Rugby would not regard itself as a development region. However, it would absolutely embrace the concept of finding, developing and playing the rugby stars of the future.

The Academy

Valleys Rugby will be closely aligned with the playing academies of all existing Regions in any event and its business model is predicated on the ability to give young professional players game time and development time in the professional environment.

Valleys Rugby would propose to operate 2 playing academies, one based in South Wales and one in North Wales. The North Wales academy would ultimately spin-out into the full North Wales Region when this entity is established.

The 2 playing academies would meet at least monthly in a central geographic location to develop skills and coaching together.

Valleys Rugby would look to work closely with the WRU and allow the WRU to run the academy along the lines it thought most productive. Valleys Rugby would also seek to use the National Academy coaches and managers as often as possible.

Coaches

Valleys Rugby would conform to the coaching and support structure as laid out in the Regional Participation Agreement.

Valleys Rugby would appoint its coaches in conjunction with the WRU and in the interim will be assisted by Lynn Howells, currently the coach of the Romanian National team, formerly coach of Wales, Edinburgh in the Rabo Direct, Doncaster in the English Championship, Celtic Warriors and Pontypridd RFC operating in the role of interim Director of Rugby.

As Valleys Rugby develops, its coaching staff can be identified in more detail. Valleys Rugby would be very keen to work with the National Coaches, and provide these with the opportunity to work with and in the Region as often as desirable and agreed with the WRU.

Our Timescale

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the 2013/4 season.

In the 2012/3 season, if financial backing is secured sufficiently, Valleys Rugby would stage some games to attract interest and demonstrate its operation to potential sponsors.

Competitons

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the Rabo Direct league and in Europe.

In the first 3 years of its existence Valleys Rugby would agree to take on a role within the European Shield tournament rather than the Heineken Cup. This would allow each of the existing Regions to concentrate on the Heineken Cup for a period without having to worry about qualification.

Welsh Rugby would have a committed participant in the Shield tournament and so meet its obligations to this.

It is believed that Valleys Rugby and each of the existing Regions would benefit by this decision.

Name

Valleys Rugby has not proposed a name or nickname.

If a playing name were required then Valleys Rugby CBS would pick this using the majority vote of its members in due course.

Our Stadia

One major advantage of a new Region within Wales would simply be an increase in the number of derby games to the benefit of all of the Regions.

To develop this concept, and to engage in the entire Region, Valleys Rugby proposes hosting its Rabo Direct games in the most geographically advantageous area.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

An illustrative schedule of fixtures to be undertaken by Valleys Rugby might look as follows:-

Fixture Venue
Valleys v. Blues Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Ospreys Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Dragons Eugene Cross Park (Ebbw Vale) / Pontypool Park (Pontypool)
Valleys v. Scarlets Virginia Park (Caerphilly) / Brewery Field (Bridgend)
Valleys v. Leinster Sardis Road (Pontypridd) / The Gnoll (Neath)
Valleys v. Edinburgh Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Ulster Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Munster Penydarren Park (Merthyr)
Valleys v. Treviso Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Aironi Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Connacht Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Glasgow Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
European & LV Games Venues as appropriate
Valleys Rugby would hope to commit to a particular venue on a recurring basis (such as Eugene Cross Park for the Dragons) on the basis that this venue would generate home support for the Valleys and also generate a genuine derby atmosphere.

Fixing the fixture to a specific venue would add certainty to the “location” for supporters and hopefully avoid the crowd dilution effect suffered by Regions when moving to different venues previously.

Each of the grounds hosting Valleys Rugby would have to show adequate support from the ground owner and a commitment to ensure the playing surface and facilities are of adequate standard for Regional rugby.

Ultimately, the venues would be decided upon by the make-up of the affiliated clubs and their financial commitment to the Region.

Sardis Road Stadium

The initial principal stadium of Valleys Rugby would be Sardis Road. In this respect:-

RCT Local Authority has in principle agreed to spend £100,000 on the facility over a 3 year period, improving its drainage and playing surface;
RCT Local Authority has also indicated that it will be prepared to vest control of the asset of Sardis Road into the Community Benefit Society, provided it is satisfied with the "asset lock" provisions adopted by Valleys Rugby CBS.
A scheme for the redevelopment of Sardis Road has been investigated by award winning architects Austin-Smith Lord LLP and images of how a redevelopment could look can be seen here.

However, in its early stages, Valleys Rugby would spend predominantly on pitch improvement and general seating. Hospitality could be provided using marquee facilities and also by linking up with local hotels within the Region. Capital expenditure on hospitality would be required in the future but would not be targeted as an immediate priority.

Training Facilities

The training facilities of the University of Glamorgan would be utilised by Valleys Rugby. Valleys Rugby intends to develop close links with the University through player scholarships and similar schemes.

Travel Plan

Valleys Rugby recognises that an intelligent and well resourced travel plan will be required to maximise attendances at peripatetic Valleys Rugby home matches. Edwards Coaches has already indicated its support for Valleys Rugby and has undertaken to work with the new Region to develop and deliver a comprehensive and cost effective travel offering for Valleys Rugby supporters as part of our unique offering.

Pilot Business Plan

Despite the exceptional and welcome success of the Welsh national team, professional rugby in Wales is still subject to enormous challenges.

These challenges impact upon the financial well being of the game, its long term sustainability and its connection with the supporter base within Wales.

It is realistic to say that the existing Regional structure has had limited success to date and there continues to be a need to develop and improve the offering to rugby supporters throughout Wales, in order to further engage supporters of our national sport.

This document and its schedules provide a proposal for a new Region within the WRU structure.

The proposal is also intended to engage with the supporters of rugby in the Valleys who currently appear to be disenfranchised with the existing concept and also to reach out and attempt to assist the WRU with the development of professional rugby in North Wales.

This paper is presented as an outline document but should be considered as a proposal from which to launch a new Region that is both financially viable and closely aligned with, and owned by, its supporter base.

Valleys Rugby will be owned and controlled by the community it serves.

Valleys Rugby CBS will initially issue shares at £100 each. The shares will be “annual shares” and so need to be subscribed for once a year. Each shareholder, upon buying into Valleys Rugby, would be entitled to:-

Ability to vote and attend meetings of Valleys Rugby CBS;
Priority access to tickets and discounts on match tickets;
Ability to vote on the Board of Directors of Valleys Rugby and alter the executive structure of Valleys Rugby as required by its supporters;
Club magazine;
Discount in the club shop;
Ticket lottery;
Card and Share Certificate, certifying membership (which, if this is linked correctly with the regional businesses, could entitle an owner to discount in local shops in the community for example);
We will target a subscription by 10,000 fans at £100 per person – and using this model have an ability to raise £1,000,000 per annum from the owners of Valleys Rugby CBS.

It is important to note that anyone can subscribe for shares in Valleys Rugby CBS and support the establishment of a top-flight rugby team for the Valleys. Membership will be open to supporters from across Wales and the World.

This subscription and ownership will provide Valleys Rugby CBS with the equivalent of a rugby benefactor.

Fundraising - Clubs

As outlined in the Legal Structure section, Valleys Rugby CBS would own at least 60% of Valleys Rugby Limited.

The remaining balance would be owned by a combination of Affiliated Clubs, the WRU, Local Authorities and other interested parties.

A participation and subscription agreement will govern this ownership. The method and make-up of this element is subject to further investigation and discussion with the WRU and affiliated clubs.

It is envisaged that this element of ownership will also attract revenue into Valleys Rugby on an annual basis. However, if there is insufficient interest, the percentage of Valleys Rugby Limited owned by Valleys Rugby CBS would be increased and further shares made available to public ownership.

Early thoughts include a three tiered scale of club membership along the following lines:-

Junior Club Member - £500 pa;
Senior Club Member - £1,000 pa;
Senior Club Hosting Valleys Rugby Matches - £10,000 pa.
Commercial Sponsors

The commercial activities of Valleys Rugby Commercial Limited are also clearly key to the proposal as sponsorship, ticket sales, TV payments etc will make up the remainder of the balance sheet of Valleys Rugby.

Valleys Rugby will seek a minimum of £300,000 sponsorship per annum and believes the business community would be willing to support this as a venture.

Valleys Rugby at present cannot take full commitment from any sponsors as the concept has not been approved by the WRU. Until such approval takes place formal sponsorship and other commitments cannot be advanced.

However, in a show of support, Valleys Rugby has achieved an indication of sponsorship of £250,000 over a 3 year period from Heads of the Valleys Developments. Letters of support have been received from the following businesses:-

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
The ability to progress this element in detail is difficult unless and until the WRU indicates that it would be willing to support Valleys Rugby being developed as a concept. If this backing can be indicated it is believed that significant sponsorship opportunities can be progressed.

WRU Support

Valleys Rugby would require the support of the WRU to develop its Region, infrastructure and players.

The level of support can be discussed and agreed and will vary depending upon which areas the WRU would want Valleys Rugby to focus and develop.

The current business proposal is predicated on annual “match funding” to be provided by the WRU which would require that the WRU provide funding to Valleys Rugby at a level broadly in line with the members funding provided to Valleys Rugby.

On this basis, Valleys Rugby would seek a minimum of £1,200,000 annual funding from the WRU (via television and other rights) but would not request more than £1,500,000 from the WRU in any year, unless specifically agreed otherwise in partnership with the WRU. Any additional funding agreed would relate to player development funding if required.

This match funding structure would provide a unique partnership between the WRU, the supporters of Valleys Rugby and the traditional rugby clubs affiliated with Valleys Rugby.

If the WRU were keen for Valleys Rugby to assist with the development of professional rugby in North Wales, then Valleys Rugby would also seek the assistance of the WRU in raising any sporting or other grants available to it for the development of rugby in North Wales.

Operating Profit & Loss

A draft operating Profit & Loss can be found within the Business Plan document. It is based on assumptions that are believed to be realistic and shows a break even figure after receipt of £1,000,000 per annum from supporter subscription and £700,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union as Valleys Rugby's share of TV rights, etc.

This loss is prior to any publicly raised funds, club funds or WRU funding. Therefore, the funding structure proposed will cover this shortfall and potentially provides an element of contingency funding.

Sponsorship

We would welcome the support of any persons, organisations or companies who wish to invest in a new community-led model for Welsh Rugby.

Valleys Rugby has already secured the support of twenty commercial sponsors including:

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
For example, Heads of the Valleys Developments Ltd has already pledged a sum of £250,000.

geoff998rugby wrote:But is regional rugby staying afloat ?

With the exception of Scarlets, from the outside, it looks like a spiral of decline.

To be honest even Scottish regional rugby looks in better shape than Welsh regional rugby.

I can't see how you can say that when Scotland only has 2 pro teams (and is really struggling because of it), as a result most of their internationals play abroad - they struggle to get over 5k for regional/club games, one of whom doesn't even own their own stadium - and the other needs to do up their stadium.

Scarlets attendances are increasing and they have got control of their finances, the Dragons crowds are increasing, they have increased their stadium while increasing the intensity with a good new stand, they are also spending within their means, but need to bring through their next raft of youngsters. The Blues are in a mess and no-ones denying it, but it does have big similarlities to the Scarlets 3 seasons ago, so it can be turned around. The Ospreys have consistently been in the Top 4 of the league and while attendances have been decreasing, they still have fans across the whole of South Wales and have the players to compete, they just need to get the passion back amongst the crowd.

But as I mention above, if the benefactors decided to up sticks tomorrow then none of the regions would exist tomorrow, unless the WRU decided to buy them, and it would then bankrupt the WRU.

The Scottish appear to have a sustainable model - albeit with only 2 teams.

Dragons are going backwards
Cardiff are a mess
Ospreys shot for the heights and failed. I would expect a period of retrenchment for them.

As I say I see Scarlets as an exception

Having never been there - is there in the infrastructure in "Ponty" to accomodate visting fans if there was a team there - is there a top end hotel for visiting teams and corporates ?
Are there enough B & Bs, cafes and bars for travelling fans or would it be a case of stay in Cardiff and train in and out for the games.

You say the O's for a period of retrenchment, but they lost a laod of their big names players for this season, and yet they are still comfortably in the Pro12 playoffs.

They need to go back to basics with drawing in the crowds, but they've got a great academy system there (and have done for years), and with the set of forwards they've got, I think they'll be perfectly okay.

Irish Londoner wrote:Having never been there - is there in the infrastructure in "Ponty" to accomodate visting fans if there was a team there - is there a top end hotel for visiting teams and corporates ?
Are there enough B & Bs, cafes and bars for travelling fans or would it be a case of stay in Cardiff and train in and out for the games.

No, but there are in Merthyr Tydfil. Anyway I suppose they would just stay in Cardiff.

Ponty v Llandovery has been called off this evening due to a waterlogged pitch at Ponty. The rain hasn't even been that bad, so I think that shows massive improvements would be needed to get the pitch even remotely up to standard of the regional game.

The more and more things hare happening, the sillier it is looking for this Valleys business plan proposal to be based there.

dreamer ive been in treforest (a ten minute walk from ponty) since 8 this morning and its been torrential rain all day, similar to the type that lead to the abandoning of the dragons vs blues game this season (and i know that because i was in newport that day too)

as for the comments about infrastructure, i dont think ponty has a great deal of hotels etc, however is 15min train journey from the centre of cardiff for

rugbydreamer wrote:Ponty v Llandovery has been called off this evening due to a waterlogged pitch at Ponty. The rain hasn't even been that bad, so I think that shows massive improvements would be needed to get the pitch even remotely up to standard of the regional game.

The more and more things hare happening, the sillier it is looking for this Valleys business plan proposal to be based there.

I have been saying this about Sardis Rd all over this thread, I know the place has history and a good atmosphere and I do like it there, but the place is still stuck in the seventies, it would take millions to get that place into the pro era, this why I think Penydarren Park would be more suitable for this valleys region as the town and the ground have more to offer.

geoff998rugby wrote:
Cardiff are a mess

Cardiff are FUBAR.

slartibartfast wrote:

If Blues were a region then I'd agree. But they're not , it's a Cardiff super club that they're own supporters aren't happy with. Seems the obvious candidate for reorganising.

Most definitely.

GavinDragon wrote:dreamer ive been in treforest (a ten minute walk from ponty) since 8 this morning and its been torrential rain all day, similar to the type that lead to the abandoning of the dragons vs blues game this season (and i know that because i was in newport that day too)

as for the comments about infrastructure, i dont think ponty has a great deal of hotels etc, however is 15min train journey from the centre of cardiff for

Hmm, okay, just 10 mins down the road in Cardiff, sure it's raining but no where near bad enough I'd have said to result in a waterlogged pitch. Just one of those things then I guess.

rugbydreamer wrote:Ponty v Llandovery has been called off this evening due to a waterlogged pitch at Ponty. The rain hasn't even been that bad

Are you serious???????? I've been in the Pontypridd area all day and it has been non-stop torrential rain since first thing this morning. Just going down the shop for a sandwich got me totally soaked right through. Where exactly are you because you sure as hell can't be Pontypridd way unless you have have some global warming system in your house/office.

Jimmy - read my last post, I'm 10 mins outside of Ponty.

So Jimmy what's the update on Valleys Rugby? According to Facebook you have some great news coming soon. I wonder what that is.

rugbydreamer wrote:Jimmy - read my last post, I'm 10 mins outside of Ponty.

You are in Cardiff if I'm correct? More than 10 minutes away unless you fly a jet plane or drive a Formula 1 car. The amount of times it's been pouring down in Pontypridd and fine in Cardiff (I work in both places) is quite mad. I assume it's to do with the mountains or something but Cardiff weather and Pontypridd weather are totally different sometimes so don't just assume it's exactly the same. The weather we have had here today I don't think any half decent ground could have hosted a game. I agree Sardis needs improvement but I doubt all the underground heating in the world would have made a difference in this monsoon.

Morgannwg wrote:So Jimmy what's the update on Valleys Rugby? According to Facebook you have some great news coming soon. I wonder what that is.

Yes I seen that. I am also wondering. Any idea?

Jimmy Moz wrote:
Yes I seen that. I am also wondering. Any idea?

Jimmy the way you've been going on you would have us think you were a Valleys Rugby board member.

My idea is that it's nothing. Because there is nothing you can do after Lewis stated that he doesn't deem it viable. And there will be no external investment because there is no market for what you're offering.

I will say that I admire the effort that went into the plan though. Some rugby fans put their heart and sole into it. It's just a shame they associate themselves with crying 'disenfranchised' fans who have never better to do but bitch and look down on the current set up.

Morgannwg wrote:Jimmy the way you've been going on you would have us think you were a Valleys Rugby board member.

I know someone involved at large but haven't spoken to them this week.

Morgannwg wrote:My idea is that it's nothing. Because there is nothing you can do after Lewis stated that he doesn't deem it viable. And there will be no external investment because there is no market for what you're offering

You may well be right. Least you got your got your wish hey if you are.

Morgannwg wrote:I will say that I admire the effort that went into the plan though. Some rugby fans put their heart and sole into it. It's just a shame they associate themselves with crying 'disenfranchised' fans who have never better to do but bitch and look down on the current set up.

Glad you actually have one decent thing to say about the campaign. Yes the people involved should just get behind the perfect flawless impeccable setup we have now.......

Yeah tbh they should get behind it, because it's here to stay. It's better than coming onto online forums and slagging it off. If any of the 4 were in a HC final bus and train loads of the Valleys community would be coming down to watch (that's if it was in Cardiff).

You are right, I was against the idea. Because it would be to the detriment of the four others and to the WRU, when the current 4 need redevelopment themselves. I understand the campaingers point of view, they are a strong and close-knit community.

My idea was for the Cardiff Blues to change their name and embrace the valleys, which would include staging rugby in the likes of Ponty, Merthyr. Nobody should have been allowed stand-alone status, despite what Cardiff fans say about their team being a brand (apparently ).

By the way Morgannwg which one are you the one on the left (white top) or the one on the right (blue? top)

Blue scoop mate, the handsome one .

It is a shame the superclubs aren't working... and they are superclubs, no matter how inclusive they are/try to be.

I am not having a pop at anyone, but i grew up being told and thinking everyone in Cardiff and Newport were soft townies ( I have since grown up!), and that everytime we played them we had to up our game to show them the valley teams played harder than them (this was drummed in from u10s!!!)....and then 10 years ago I was told I had to support the Dragon (no, not the dragons, the Newport Gwent Dragons).....! I have got over this emotional upheavel, and now find myself supporting them happily....for what it's worth!

But I always wonder how it would have felt to have a proper representative East Wales region to support.....beating the West Wales region to show them that, contrary to popular belief (in Llanelli and Swansea anyway), west wasn't best.

It should have been 4 proper representative regions from the start. But we have messed it up and who knows how we can sort it out......!

I think we will sort it out, but I think we as players, members and supporters have to collectively swallow our pride and allow these correct regions to form. There is still a Cardiff, and Ponty and Bridgend. There is still a Newport, Ebbw Vale, Newbridge, Pontypool. There is still a Llanelli, Swansea, Neath. But over these clubs, we, as welshmen (and welsh women!), deserve our regions to represent all of us. Divisiveness can't be allowed to cause the frictions it used to, because in the modern professional era, it will sink us all.

where you from chris? i think the dragons need to do much more work in areas like ebbw vale and i see no real reason why 2-3 games a year cant be played at eugene cross park, what are your thoughts?

I think it would be great if the Dragons took games to other grounds around the region. The only question is how happy Newport RFC would be about the lost revenue.

so ticket sales from dragons game go into newport rfc?

Morgannwg wrote:Blue scoop mate, the handsome one .

It's a bit tight that top mind ain't it . Well at least your point about Cardiff not embracing the Valleys was correct. They never will either regardless of what happens with this campaign.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think it would be great if the Dragons took games to other grounds around the region. The only question is how happy Newport RFC would be about the lost revenue.

Surely any lost revenue to Newport RFC would be a gain to Pontypool, Ebbw Vale or wherever they should stage the game in their Region?

I found out via access to Valleys Rugby Facebook that Dragons were offered Caerphilly's ground whilst the Parade was still under redevelopment (they barely had half a stadium at the time) but they refused. That's disapointing, NGD should have jumped at the opportunity.

Jimmy Moz wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Blue scoop mate, the handsome one .

It's a bit tight that top mind ain't it . Well at least your point about Cardiff not embracing the Valleys was correct. They never will either regardless of what happens with this campaign.

I thought that was still the style these days, but I could be behind. I'll never purcahse a pair of chino's though.

If big change happens then it's possible. If Cardiff fans don't like it, well they still have Cardiff RFC to support.

GavinDragon wrote:so ticket sales from dragons game go into newport rfc?

I was thinking more about the revenue from 'refreshments'.

show me the link to this partilcuar post morg? i cnt find it on their facebook

ah but luckless, with newport county coming on board rodney parade ltd will benefit from extra games on the football.

Morgannwg wrote:I found out via access to Valleys Rugby Facebook that Dragons were offered Caerphilly's ground whilst the Parade was still under redevelopment (they barely had half a stadium at the time) but they refused. That's disapointing, NGD should have jumped at the opportunity.

First of all, I wouldn't quote as gospel something you heard through a Facebook group, and secondly, the Dragons might not have been able to 'jump at the opportunity' if they already had an agreement with Newport.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/04/24/comment-it-s-time-for-a-change-to-save-welsh-regional-game-91466-30823729/

even thought that paper comes out with some rubbish i quite like this proposal

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:I found out via access to Valleys Rugby Facebook that Dragons were offered Caerphilly's ground whilst the Parade was still under redevelopment (they barely had half a stadium at the time) but they refused. That's disapointing, NGD should have jumped at the opportunity.

First of all, I wouldn't quote as gospel something you heard through a Facebook group, and secondly, the Dragons might not have been able to 'jump at the opportunity' if they already had an agreement with Newport.

I was also told the Caerphilly had a larger population and more rugby clubs. That can't be true though. Dragons are meant to be a Region so my point is they should have already been prepared to stage games elsewhere.

Morgannwg wrote:

If big change happens then it's possible. If Cardiff fans don't like it, well they still have Cardiff RFC to support.

Here's a suggestion why don't Cardiff copy what Llanelli did as it seems to work for them;

Drop the name, but keep the nickname meaning Cardiff Blues would instead be "The Blue and Blacks".
Play in the club colours as the Scarlets do, so blue and black for "The Blue and Blacks" obviously.
Also keep the original jersey crest/logo as the Scarlets have done.
As well as all the other stuff they do (see the website for details), open a shop/cafe in the centre of Cardiff with the following advertised on their website;

"As part of its 126-year history of links with Cardiff, the Blue and Blacks would look to create a "Blue and Black Experience" within the new store to herald the rich and unrivalled club heritage and Blue and Black links with the city and people of Cardiff."

like the Scarlets have posted on their website;

"As part of its 130-year history of links with Llanelli, the Scarlets would look to create a "Scarlets Experience" within the new store to herald the rich and unrivalled club heritage and Scarlets links with the town and people of Llanelli."

Will it work? Does a "one size, fits all" answer apply here?

Jimmy Moz wrote:Well at least your point about Cardiff not embracing the Valleys was correct. They never will either regardless of what happens with this campaign.

What would you like Cardiff Blues to do Jimmy?
How would you like to be embraced?

The Scarlets are about as regional as Pembroke Dock Harlequins

Cardiff Dave wrote:What would you like Cardiff Blues to do Jimmy?

Go bust and out of business would be a good start

well dave i would like to see the cardiff and newport be dropped from the blues and dragons,

2-4 games to be played at sardis/pennydarren (the former cold perhaps be done on the same day as ponty vs cardiff prem side)

and the same for the dragons but using eugene cross park

Jimmy Moz wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:What would you like Cardiff Blues to do Jimmy?

Go bust and out of business would be a good start

So in actual fact you don't want to be embraced by Cardiff Blues at all whatever they do?
Is that right?

GavinDragon wrote:well dave i would like to see the cardiff and newport be dropped from the blues and dragons,

2-4 games to be played at sardis/pennydarren (the former cold perhaps be done on the same day as ponty vs cardiff prem side)

and the same for the dragons but using eugene cross park

For financial reasons alone, I don't believe what you have suggested will happen, but you never know.

Cardiff Dave wrote:So in actual fact you don't want to be embraced by Cardiff Blues at all whatever they do?
Is that right?

It's all a bit late for that I'm afraid. We already know where we are not wanted. If the Valleys Rugby plan gets rejected then it's stick to supporting your local club for us lot.

what financial reasons?

GavinDragon wrote:where you from chris? i think the dragons need to do much more work in areas like ebbw vale and i see no real reason why 2-3 games a year cant be played at eugene cross park, what are your thoughts?

Hi Gav.

From a little village near Crumlin call Croespenmaen. Played at junior level for Oakdale, Trinant, Newbridge and a couple of others. Over in England for about the last 10-15 years though.

Eugene Cross would be a start, but is still in the eyes of many people too far south. What about areas like Nantyglo, Ebbw Vale, Caerphilly.....there are so many opportunities for the Dragons that, if they havent tapped in to them already they really should....but is it too late?

It frustrates me that peoples egos are ruining the support for the game in large areas of the country, and as a result wasting a load of potential talent. The regions should be all about increasing participation, encouraging people to watch and PLAY rugby!

eugene cross is ebbw vales ground aint it?

christ ive played all over gwent but have never come across Croespenmaen, had some hard games vs oakdale trinant over the years mind...

was meant to be at talywain tonight but its been rained off,

'It frustrates me that peoples egos are ruining the support for the game in large areas of the country, and as a result wasting a load of potential talent. The regions should be all about increasing participation, encouraging people to watch and PLAY rugby!.'

totally agree with you chris! Welcome to the boards!

I did at one point think that David Moffett couldn't care less about the Valleys but judging by his recent commets it's clear that he did care but was actually naive enough to think that Newport and Cardiff were going embrace them.

there are fans of (at least the dragons) who do want to see the whole of their regions represented tho moz, just need to make enough noise that the owners will listen, or do what valleys rugby are doing, if it got off the ground as a dragons fan i would not begrudge them one bit

GavinDragon wrote:what financial reasons?

Food/drink sales for a start. If the Blues played at Sardis all that revenue would go to Ponty RFC.
No doubt ticket sales would be down too.
Then there's the small matter of the corporate lot and the posh types who would not be happy about changing venues. In fact some of the posh types complained when those two games were shifted to CAP recently. Sponsorship and advertising could be a headache too. I realise the Ospreys have played a few games at the Brewery, but they have interests down there, so it's probably easier for them to do that. Sardis has nothing to do with Cardiff Blues.

Morgannwg wrote:If Cardiff fans don't like it, well they still have Cardiff RFC to support.

Good call.
Peter Thomas didn't care about the views of existing supporters either.
Though maybe he's learnt his lesson.

so what you lose in corp in cardiff you replace with corp from the ponty and valley area (in theory)

food and drinnk sales, yea fair point, but what better way to say your embracing your region than allowing them to keep part or all of the sales on the day

'Sardis has nothing to do with Cardiff Blues..' and its that attitude that has to be changed and the 'they hate us as well' arguement doesnt wash, cardiff based fans (like newport based fans) have not had top level rugby taken away from them, the people of the valleys have and i believe that there is a moral, rugby and business case for taking games to any places in the region where they can host them