The Valleys business plan.

First topic message reminder :

http://www.valleysrugby.com/our-players-coaches

Our Region

The boundaries of the Valleys Rugby region will be decided by the fans and the clubs of the Valleys Rugby region.

Geography

Valleys Rugby’s primary objective will be to provide a home for those fans and clubs in Wales that consider themselves to be part of the Valleys community and who want to be part of a professional team for their region.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

Clubs will be invited to affiliate to Valleys Rugby and to host home matches as per the Funding section.

North Wales

Valleys Rugby will also look to provide a resource for the development of the game in North and Mid Wales.

Valleys Rugby would work with the WRU to provide a sustainable development plan. Initially it is proposed that Valleys Rugby provides a 3 year commitment along the following basis:-

Base a permanent player academy in North Wales and a player academy in South Wales. The two academies would meet at a middle ground venue on a monthly basis;
Work closely with North and Mid Wales clubs to identify and develop talented players;
Play 2 Rabo Direct league fixtures in North Wales annually. For consistency purposes, Valleys Rugby would propose that the Edinburgh and Ulster games are played in North Wales annually;
Undertake preparation for the establishment of a similar Community owned business model for a professional franchise for North and Mid Wales.
The ultimate objective of Valleys Rugby would be to assist the WRU with the creation of a viable stand alone model for North and Mid Wales. The North and Mid Wales development would ultimately spin out and away from Valleys Rugby. The introduction of a 3 year timeframe in this proposal is intended to focus efforts on establishing this model within this timeframe.

Our Players & Coaches

Valleys Rugby proposes to operate with a low salary budget for playing staff. On the basis that the Region will carry a playing squad of 32 the total salary cap for this squad would be capped at £1,200,000.

The Region would rely on developing young players and so the above cap is based upon the squad have 12 of its players on salaries of c. £18,000 (£216,000) as young professionals.

The remainder of the playing budget (£984,000) would be available between the remaining 20 players to cover salary costs and incidental costs including national insurance.

The following key points would underpin this salary limit:-

All players to be Welsh qualified or qualifying;

Valleys Rugby players would be under contract with a “player release” available should the player aspire to join another Region. The player release would operate on the basis that Valleys Rugby would allow the release, provided the acquiring Region in return provides to Valleys Rugby an academy or younger professional deemed talented and unable to secure adequate development time at the acquiring Region. If a suitable player were not available from the acquiring Region, Valleys Rugby would look for a fixed level of financial contribution allowing further investment into the Valleys Rugby Community;

Valleys Rugby would operate with an “Area Quota” and so have a squad with at least 20% of its players being developed or from North Wales whilst within its time commitment to North Wales and a further 30% being developed or from the Valleys. See our outline regarding a commitment to North Wales elsewhere in the proposal;

Valleys Rugby would be keen to discuss and review “player policies” annually with the WRU and actively seek to engage the input of the WRU in placing younger or developing players with Valleys Rugby – as guided by the WRU on this important strategic issue;
Valleys Rugby would be keen to work with the Wales 7’s structure, to “home” international 7’s players and develop these within the 15 a side structure;

Valleys Rugby would look to develop a schools and young player academy with the WRU and actively seek to progress WRU policies of youth development within its region. To this end, Valleys rugby would be keen to adopt a “commitment to playing” development “stars” as identified by the WRU and with the other Regions if this became appropriate.
Valleys Rugby would not regard itself as a development region. However, it would absolutely embrace the concept of finding, developing and playing the rugby stars of the future.

The Academy

Valleys Rugby will be closely aligned with the playing academies of all existing Regions in any event and its business model is predicated on the ability to give young professional players game time and development time in the professional environment.

Valleys Rugby would propose to operate 2 playing academies, one based in South Wales and one in North Wales. The North Wales academy would ultimately spin-out into the full North Wales Region when this entity is established.

The 2 playing academies would meet at least monthly in a central geographic location to develop skills and coaching together.

Valleys Rugby would look to work closely with the WRU and allow the WRU to run the academy along the lines it thought most productive. Valleys Rugby would also seek to use the National Academy coaches and managers as often as possible.

Coaches

Valleys Rugby would conform to the coaching and support structure as laid out in the Regional Participation Agreement.

Valleys Rugby would appoint its coaches in conjunction with the WRU and in the interim will be assisted by Lynn Howells, currently the coach of the Romanian National team, formerly coach of Wales, Edinburgh in the Rabo Direct, Doncaster in the English Championship, Celtic Warriors and Pontypridd RFC operating in the role of interim Director of Rugby.

As Valleys Rugby develops, its coaching staff can be identified in more detail. Valleys Rugby would be very keen to work with the National Coaches, and provide these with the opportunity to work with and in the Region as often as desirable and agreed with the WRU.

Our Timescale

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the 2013/4 season.

In the 2012/3 season, if financial backing is secured sufficiently, Valleys Rugby would stage some games to attract interest and demonstrate its operation to potential sponsors.

Competitons

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the Rabo Direct league and in Europe.

In the first 3 years of its existence Valleys Rugby would agree to take on a role within the European Shield tournament rather than the Heineken Cup. This would allow each of the existing Regions to concentrate on the Heineken Cup for a period without having to worry about qualification.

Welsh Rugby would have a committed participant in the Shield tournament and so meet its obligations to this.

It is believed that Valleys Rugby and each of the existing Regions would benefit by this decision.

Name

Valleys Rugby has not proposed a name or nickname.

If a playing name were required then Valleys Rugby CBS would pick this using the majority vote of its members in due course.

Our Stadia

One major advantage of a new Region within Wales would simply be an increase in the number of derby games to the benefit of all of the Regions.

To develop this concept, and to engage in the entire Region, Valleys Rugby proposes hosting its Rabo Direct games in the most geographically advantageous area.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

An illustrative schedule of fixtures to be undertaken by Valleys Rugby might look as follows:-

Fixture Venue
Valleys v. Blues Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Ospreys Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Dragons Eugene Cross Park (Ebbw Vale) / Pontypool Park (Pontypool)
Valleys v. Scarlets Virginia Park (Caerphilly) / Brewery Field (Bridgend)
Valleys v. Leinster Sardis Road (Pontypridd) / The Gnoll (Neath)
Valleys v. Edinburgh Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Ulster Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Munster Penydarren Park (Merthyr)
Valleys v. Treviso Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Aironi Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Connacht Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Glasgow Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
European & LV Games Venues as appropriate
Valleys Rugby would hope to commit to a particular venue on a recurring basis (such as Eugene Cross Park for the Dragons) on the basis that this venue would generate home support for the Valleys and also generate a genuine derby atmosphere.

Fixing the fixture to a specific venue would add certainty to the “location” for supporters and hopefully avoid the crowd dilution effect suffered by Regions when moving to different venues previously.

Each of the grounds hosting Valleys Rugby would have to show adequate support from the ground owner and a commitment to ensure the playing surface and facilities are of adequate standard for Regional rugby.

Ultimately, the venues would be decided upon by the make-up of the affiliated clubs and their financial commitment to the Region.

Sardis Road Stadium

The initial principal stadium of Valleys Rugby would be Sardis Road. In this respect:-

RCT Local Authority has in principle agreed to spend £100,000 on the facility over a 3 year period, improving its drainage and playing surface;
RCT Local Authority has also indicated that it will be prepared to vest control of the asset of Sardis Road into the Community Benefit Society, provided it is satisfied with the "asset lock" provisions adopted by Valleys Rugby CBS.
A scheme for the redevelopment of Sardis Road has been investigated by award winning architects Austin-Smith Lord LLP and images of how a redevelopment could look can be seen here.

However, in its early stages, Valleys Rugby would spend predominantly on pitch improvement and general seating. Hospitality could be provided using marquee facilities and also by linking up with local hotels within the Region. Capital expenditure on hospitality would be required in the future but would not be targeted as an immediate priority.

Training Facilities

The training facilities of the University of Glamorgan would be utilised by Valleys Rugby. Valleys Rugby intends to develop close links with the University through player scholarships and similar schemes.

Travel Plan

Valleys Rugby recognises that an intelligent and well resourced travel plan will be required to maximise attendances at peripatetic Valleys Rugby home matches. Edwards Coaches has already indicated its support for Valleys Rugby and has undertaken to work with the new Region to develop and deliver a comprehensive and cost effective travel offering for Valleys Rugby supporters as part of our unique offering.

Pilot Business Plan

Despite the exceptional and welcome success of the Welsh national team, professional rugby in Wales is still subject to enormous challenges.

These challenges impact upon the financial well being of the game, its long term sustainability and its connection with the supporter base within Wales.

It is realistic to say that the existing Regional structure has had limited success to date and there continues to be a need to develop and improve the offering to rugby supporters throughout Wales, in order to further engage supporters of our national sport.

This document and its schedules provide a proposal for a new Region within the WRU structure.

The proposal is also intended to engage with the supporters of rugby in the Valleys who currently appear to be disenfranchised with the existing concept and also to reach out and attempt to assist the WRU with the development of professional rugby in North Wales.

This paper is presented as an outline document but should be considered as a proposal from which to launch a new Region that is both financially viable and closely aligned with, and owned by, its supporter base.

Valleys Rugby will be owned and controlled by the community it serves.

Valleys Rugby CBS will initially issue shares at £100 each. The shares will be “annual shares” and so need to be subscribed for once a year. Each shareholder, upon buying into Valleys Rugby, would be entitled to:-

Ability to vote and attend meetings of Valleys Rugby CBS;
Priority access to tickets and discounts on match tickets;
Ability to vote on the Board of Directors of Valleys Rugby and alter the executive structure of Valleys Rugby as required by its supporters;
Club magazine;
Discount in the club shop;
Ticket lottery;
Card and Share Certificate, certifying membership (which, if this is linked correctly with the regional businesses, could entitle an owner to discount in local shops in the community for example);
We will target a subscription by 10,000 fans at £100 per person – and using this model have an ability to raise £1,000,000 per annum from the owners of Valleys Rugby CBS.

It is important to note that anyone can subscribe for shares in Valleys Rugby CBS and support the establishment of a top-flight rugby team for the Valleys. Membership will be open to supporters from across Wales and the World.

This subscription and ownership will provide Valleys Rugby CBS with the equivalent of a rugby benefactor.

Fundraising - Clubs

As outlined in the Legal Structure section, Valleys Rugby CBS would own at least 60% of Valleys Rugby Limited.

The remaining balance would be owned by a combination of Affiliated Clubs, the WRU, Local Authorities and other interested parties.

A participation and subscription agreement will govern this ownership. The method and make-up of this element is subject to further investigation and discussion with the WRU and affiliated clubs.

It is envisaged that this element of ownership will also attract revenue into Valleys Rugby on an annual basis. However, if there is insufficient interest, the percentage of Valleys Rugby Limited owned by Valleys Rugby CBS would be increased and further shares made available to public ownership.

Early thoughts include a three tiered scale of club membership along the following lines:-

Junior Club Member - £500 pa;
Senior Club Member - £1,000 pa;
Senior Club Hosting Valleys Rugby Matches - £10,000 pa.
Commercial Sponsors

The commercial activities of Valleys Rugby Commercial Limited are also clearly key to the proposal as sponsorship, ticket sales, TV payments etc will make up the remainder of the balance sheet of Valleys Rugby.

Valleys Rugby will seek a minimum of £300,000 sponsorship per annum and believes the business community would be willing to support this as a venture.

Valleys Rugby at present cannot take full commitment from any sponsors as the concept has not been approved by the WRU. Until such approval takes place formal sponsorship and other commitments cannot be advanced.

However, in a show of support, Valleys Rugby has achieved an indication of sponsorship of £250,000 over a 3 year period from Heads of the Valleys Developments. Letters of support have been received from the following businesses:-

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
The ability to progress this element in detail is difficult unless and until the WRU indicates that it would be willing to support Valleys Rugby being developed as a concept. If this backing can be indicated it is believed that significant sponsorship opportunities can be progressed.

WRU Support

Valleys Rugby would require the support of the WRU to develop its Region, infrastructure and players.

The level of support can be discussed and agreed and will vary depending upon which areas the WRU would want Valleys Rugby to focus and develop.

The current business proposal is predicated on annual “match funding” to be provided by the WRU which would require that the WRU provide funding to Valleys Rugby at a level broadly in line with the members funding provided to Valleys Rugby.

On this basis, Valleys Rugby would seek a minimum of £1,200,000 annual funding from the WRU (via television and other rights) but would not request more than £1,500,000 from the WRU in any year, unless specifically agreed otherwise in partnership with the WRU. Any additional funding agreed would relate to player development funding if required.

This match funding structure would provide a unique partnership between the WRU, the supporters of Valleys Rugby and the traditional rugby clubs affiliated with Valleys Rugby.

If the WRU were keen for Valleys Rugby to assist with the development of professional rugby in North Wales, then Valleys Rugby would also seek the assistance of the WRU in raising any sporting or other grants available to it for the development of rugby in North Wales.

Operating Profit & Loss

A draft operating Profit & Loss can be found within the Business Plan document. It is based on assumptions that are believed to be realistic and shows a break even figure after receipt of £1,000,000 per annum from supporter subscription and £700,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union as Valleys Rugby's share of TV rights, etc.

This loss is prior to any publicly raised funds, club funds or WRU funding. Therefore, the funding structure proposed will cover this shortfall and potentially provides an element of contingency funding.

Sponsorship

We would welcome the support of any persons, organisations or companies who wish to invest in a new community-led model for Welsh Rugby.

Valleys Rugby has already secured the support of twenty commercial sponsors including:

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
For example, Heads of the Valleys Developments Ltd has already pledged a sum of £250,000.

GavinDragon wrote:

'Sardis has nothing to do with Cardiff Blues..' and its that attitude that has to be changed and the 'they hate us as well' arguement doesnt wash, cardiff based fans (like newport based fans) have not had top level rugby taken away from them, the people of the valleys have and i believe that there is a moral, rugby and business case for taking games to any places in the region where they can host them

It's not an attitude, it's a fact that there is no financial relationship. That's the point I was making. The Os can use the Brewery as Cuddy's company owns it I believe.

ah apologies, well isnt that the point, you branch out and make a financial arrangement with them that suits both and serves as a symbol of the blues attempting to embrace its region

GavinDragon wrote:so what you lose in corp in cardiff you replace with corp from the ponty and valley area (in theory)

food and drinnk sales, yea fair point, but what better way to say your embracing your region than allowing them to keep part or all of the sales on the day

There are 38ish hospitality boxes at CAP plus other areas to keep the corporate and posh lot happy. CCS has I think a couple of restaurants, private suites etc etc. Sardis would need a damn good fit out to keep this lot content.

Allowing another club to keep some of the profits would be a matter for the shareholders to decide I guess. As Cardiff Blues have financial problems I doubt it would happen, but there again who knows.

and the corporate facilities are constantly full at every game is it?

and you said it a financial arrangement would have to be established, surely they could arrange something to suit both parties?

GavinDragon wrote:ah apologies, well isnt that the point, you branch out and make a financial arrangement with them that suits both and serves as a symbol of the blues attempting to embrace its region

I know what you mean, but this is a Cardiff/Ponty/regional thing.
Solving the problems in the middle east might be easier.

GavinDragon wrote:and the corporate facilities are constantly full at every game is it?

and you said it a financial arrangement would have to be established, surely they could arrange something to suit both parties?

The hospitality boxes were always sold out at CAP ie paid for the whole season. No idea how it works at CCS. As it happens one member of the board was against moving games to CAP for this corporate facilities reason. Thankfully that person will be gone at the end of the season. Good riddance too and about time.
I agree, something could be negotiated and arranged, but unless it is financially viable I doubt they will stage any games at Sardis IMO. That being said Holland said they might or would look into it. See what happens I suppose.

GavinDragon wrote:well dave i would like to see the cardiff and newport be dropped from the blues and dragons,

2-4 games to be played at sardis/pennydarren (the former cold perhaps be done on the same day as ponty vs cardiff prem side)

and the same for the dragons but using eugene cross park

2-4 games is what the Celtic Warriors played at Sardis. 3 games in total actually and no European fixtures.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/04/24/comment-it-s-time-for-a-change-to-save-welsh-regional-game-91466-30823729/#sitelife-commentsWidget-bottom

This article you put up GavinDragon is why I hate Wales.

I put some of these ideas forward ages ago but because I am not Welsh or don't work for Wales Online or something they were just ignored.

The problem with Welsh rugby is that you guys just don't like change. And are afraid of it. If I wasn't wasn't having coitus with one of you I would have left, maybe.

what so the article is why you dislike wales?

and i know you have advocated this before but have never shot you down, just that it is complex, i used the article for walesonline as it is a more recognisable platform than your well educated comments

I say it all in jest. I love Wales. And though it may not be the tropical paradise that Northern Ireland is, rugby is the most popular sport. I like this.

I think the journalist is right, as you know. If the Valley's Region doesn't work I think they should think about moving the WP to create a top level domestic competition in it's own stand alone window.

Owen Smith claims one reason he is attempting to bring a region to the valleys is for financial reasons. Then why not help all of the Premiership sides local areas by having a NZ NPC league or SA Currie Cup? Bring money back and supporters.

What is the craic with the Valley's Region now? How much money have they got now?

JayMaster3000 wrote:

I think the journalist is right, as you know.

Andy Howell is brill.

Not sure how the WRU could afford to centrally contract 160 players and at the same time reduce the number of money spinning internationals team Wales plays which is what he is suggesting.
Also "EACH competition – RaboDirect Pro12, Heineken and Anglo-Welsh LV Cups – should be played in one block to a compelling climax." would involve cooperation from all of the European unions, not just Wales.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

JayMaster3000 wrote:

I think the journalist is right, as you know.

Andy Howell is brill.

Not sure how the WRU could afford to centrally contract 160 players and at the same time reduce the number of money spinning internationals team Wales plays which is what he is suggesting.
Also "EACH competition – RaboDirect Pro12, Heineken and Anglo-Welsh LV Cups – should be played in one block to a compelling climax." would involve cooperation from all of the European unions, not just Wales.

I agree with him for the most part, but I don't think a whole European restructure is necessary. I think that the WRU should be, as Andy Howell says, to create a more elite WP with full time pro playing to lift the playing standards. Perhaps if the regions worked more closely with the WP teams they could trim down their squads?

We should start a campaign to move the WP to the summer with all the fringe players of the regions and players that have only played a handful of games for the regions taking lumps out of each other in fast open rugby. Though this weather doesn't suggest that's gonna happen.

Morgannwg wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:I found out via access to Valleys Rugby Facebook that Dragons were offered Caerphilly's ground whilst the Parade was still under redevelopment (they barely had half a stadium at the time) but they refused. That's disapointing, NGD should have jumped at the opportunity.

First of all, I wouldn't quote as gospel something you heard through a Facebook group, and secondly, the Dragons might not have been able to 'jump at the opportunity' if they already had an agreement with Newport.

I was also told the Caerphilly had a larger population and more rugby clubs. That can't be true though. Dragons are meant to be a Region so my point is they should have already been prepared to stage games elsewhere.

Very much doubt the Dragons can move ground without the WRU's permission as they own half the region. Newport currently own the other half so why should they move? Caerphilly's not even within the boundaries of the old Gwent.

Please note I am not a Newport RFC fan.

Jimmy Moz wrote:I did at one point think that David Moffett couldn't care less about the Valleys but judging by his recent commets it's clear that he did care but was actually naive enough to think that Newport and Cardiff were going embrace them.

Utter, utter nonsense.

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/9665559.Dean_Gunter_major_doubt_for_Swalec_Cup_final/
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=21059
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20962
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20871
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20858
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20844
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20825
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20641
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20626
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20470
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20436
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20331
http://newportgwentdragons.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=20276

You are the one with the problem. Not the regions.

Yes lots of links. Very good

many of them are good efforts, but i believe they can go further and still cant see why 2-3 games (even if 1-2 are rabbo games) could not be played in EXP

Jimmy Moz wrote:Yes lots of links. Very good

Why not read a few? Or, you could just carry on posting ignorant vitriol on the interweb

Seems to me that 'Newport' have done more for valleys rugby than Valleys Rugby over the last 6 months.

GavinDragon wrote:many of them are good efforts, but i believe they can go further and still cant see why 2-3 games (even if 1-2 are rabbo games) could not be played in EXP

In an ideal world yes. But in a world where the WRU may be looking for an excuse to downgrade or shut down a region that is on the bare bones financially what would justify the risk?

GavinDragon wrote:many of them are good efforts, but i believe they can go further and still cant see why 2-3 games (even if 1-2 are rabbo games) could not be played in EXP

Just asking, but does Ebbw Vale RFC have an opinion on this and what do their supporters think of the idea as i'm sure it's been suggested before?

Maybe playing some games at EXP has been considered, I wouldn't know, but if Rodney Parade would expect an attendance of say 6000 on average over 3 games and each of those attendees spend say £10 each on food/drink/stuff each visit, that's £180,000 worth of business right there not including ticket sales. Why would any company want to sacrifice that kind of turnover? They could negotiate a way of sharing the profits, but they would still lose out.

You could argue that the act of playing some fixtures at other grounds may attract new support down to RP, but would it be worth it in the long run in £££s and pence?
Where's MOG?

Edit; nearly forgot, what do Newport GD fans in general think of the idea?

I've said before that I'd be happy for the Dragons to play matches around Gwent.

im not being funny dave you could negotiate a deal in which ebbw only kept 10% of the takings for the day, thats still 10% they wouldnt get if the dragons didnt play there and give there fans the opportunity to top level rugby

GavinDragon wrote:im not being funny dave you could negotiate a deal in which ebbw only kept 10% of the takings for the day, thats still 10% they wouldnt get if the dragons didnt play there and give there fans the opportunity to top level rugby

Yes, i'm sure a deal could be negotiated, but if those running the show at the Drags believe that by taking games away from RP, they would lose out financially I doubt very much that they would go for it.
Also, the opportunity to watch "top level rugby" already exists and it's at Rodney Parade.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I've said before that I'd be happy for the Dragons to play matches around Gwent.

You'd still be happy even if it cost the Drags a shed load of money by doing so?

That would change things, obviously.

Stone Motif wrote:

Very much doubt the Dragons can move ground without the WRU's permission as they own half the region. Newport currently own the other half so why should they move? Caerphilly's not even within the boundaries of the old Gwent.

Please note I am not a Newport RFC fan.

So who owns which half?

I don't think it matters now as to where Caerphilly was hundreds of years ago, they are now officially part of the rugby region. The point is they apparently offered so obviously had all the permissions, etc... I've worked at Rodney Parade and the place, including the new stand is still very Newport RFC.

Not still going on about this are we? Pie in the sky doesn't come close to it!

Glas a du wrote:Not still going on about this are we? Pie in the sky doesn't come close to it!

Here, Here.

Morgannwg wrote:
So who owns which half?

Newport own their half, the WRU own the other that Ebbw Vale hot-potatoed their way back in 2003.

Morgannwg wrote:
I don't think it matters now as to where Caerphilly was hundreds of years ago, they are now officially part of the rugby region. .

I'm not talking about hundreds of years ago, I'm talking about as long as Caerphilly has existed up to and including the present day. Have a look at it on the map. Up until 1996 the Rhymney Valley (including the town of Caerphilly) was never in Gwent. Caerphilly is basically North Cardiff and always has been. It would make no more sense for the Dragons to play there than for Cardiff to play in Pontypool, no matter how the daft regional boundaries work.

Morgannwg wrote:
The point is they apparently offered so obviously had all the permissions, etc... I've worked at Rodney Parade and the place, including the new stand is still very Newport RFC

Well yes, they're the ones who've been left holding the baby and 100% of the risk following the merger collapse. The Dragons are strictly speaking only tenants of Newport RFC. Now if Cross Keys, Ebbw Vale or Pooler were to step up to the plate and ask the WRU for the other half back I'd be delighted (as long as the finances were backed up) but until they do, nobody can complain about the Dragons playing in Newport's ground.

Oh for gods sake, I meant who as in which clubs were included in each half! And yes I've always seen Caerphilly as north CArdiff and it's the same with Caerphilly dwellers but it doesn't matter as now it is in the Dragons Regional boundry.

I think they should restrict Newport RFC emblems, pics, history, etc.. to the Newport RFC club house.

Morgannwg wrote:I think they should restrict Newport RFC emblems, pics, history, etc.. to the Newport RFC club house.

I guess they will have to if the County FC move in.

Morgannwg wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Very much doubt the Dragons can move ground without the WRU's permission as they own half the region. Newport currently own the other half so why should they move? Caerphilly's not even within the boundaries of the old Gwent.

Please note I am not a Newport RFC fan.

So who owns which half?

I don't think it matters now as to where Caerphilly was hundreds of years ago, they are now officially part of the rugby region. The point is they apparently offered so obviously had all the permissions, etc... I've worked at Rodney Parade and the place, including the new stand is still very Newport RFC.

Pretty sure it was in the same place as it is now?

no one is suggesting they leave rodney parade just between 2 and 4 games away from the ground

Morgannwg wrote:Oh for gods sake, I meant who as in which clubs were included in each half! And yes I've always seen Caerphilly as north CArdiff and it's the same with Caerphilly dwellers but it doesn't matter as now it is in the Dragons Regional boundry.

I think they should restrict Newport RFC emblems, pics, history, etc.. to the Newport RFC club house.

Would you expect all Ebbw Vale emblems, badges, pics ect to be removed from EXP if the Dragons play there? I mean Ebbw will still be playing there but as it'll be an official regional ground you could make that argument.

Equally, as I would, you could make the argument that Newport RFC own the Dave and still play there and the Dragons are only lease holders (or whatever you call it), as Newport County will be as well, and as Ebbw own EXP. Its not up to the Dragons to state what is put up around the stadium.

There's Newport Club house for NEwport RFC and there is the Business Suite in the new stand for the Dragons, the ones that are representing more than Newport.

Casartelli wrote:

Pretty sure it was in the same place as it is now?

Who said it wasn't?

Says here that:

Caerphilly (/kərˈfɪli/; Welsh: Caerffili, Welsh pronunciation: [ˌkɑːɨrˈfɪlɪ]) is a town in the county borough of Caerphilly, south Wales, located at the southern end of the Rhymney Valley, with a population of approximately 31,000. It was originally part of the old Republic of Kazakhstan. Following the 1917 Russian Revolution, and subsequent civil war, the territory of Kazakhstan was reorganized several times before Caerphilly became part of the United Kingdom in 1928.

Morgannwg wrote:There's Newport Club house for NEwport RFC and there is the Business Suite in the new stand for the Dragons, the ones that are representing more than Newport.

It's Newport RFC's ground.

Will they be called "Newport Ebbw Vale Caerphilly Gwent Dragons"?

Casartelli wrote:Will they be called "Newport Ebbw Vale Caerphilly Gwent Dragons"?

I have heard they might be called "Newport Ebbw Vale Caerphilly and possibly Pontypool at some point Gwent Dragons" just to show the WRU that they really mean business

More chance of Michael Jackson playing half time at the next NGD home game than them playing a match outside of Rodney Parade.

Jimmy Moz wrote:The Scarlets are about as regional as Pembroke Dock Harlequins

Bad choice of clubs there Jimmy, the quins seem to poach a fair few of the kids from the south of the Celddau for their age-group teams.

Also the Scarlets are regional. You have my word as a native of Pembrokeshire, (not Llanelli or Carmarthenshire) that the Scarlets do have strong links with the communities around the region. Funny enough they are sending players down for the Pembroke Dock Harlequins kids presentation evening (funny how you brought them up earlier). On of the new high ups at the Scarlets (Bleddyn Phillips) was raised and educated in Milford Haven, and they have had a fair few players come through the system form Pembrokeshire too. The PYS announcer Tommo, works for radio pembs/carms (and I believe cardiganshire too), and is pretty constantly talking up the Scarlets. Since he has been on radio pembrokeshire, the radio station (including other DJs) make a big deal of pointing out that the Scarlets are our region.

So I would say they are not only regional, but they are pretty much what most people would actually want from a region.

Ok some valid points there. Well if the Scarlets are doing so much much work in the west area then why do you think the attendances are still poor (I know they are good compared to some teams but you know what I mean)? You would think that the area they cover they would get much bigger crowds. Is it because they still have such a big attachment to the old Llanelli RFC or is it location and PYS would have been better being built somewhere else (like Pembrokeshire)?

I might be wrong, Jimmy, but you seem to take pleasure in the fact that the regions' attendances are low.

Jimmy Moz wrote:Ok some valid points there. Well if the Scarlets are doing so much much work in the west area then why do you think the attendances are still poor (I know they are good compared to some teams but you know what I mean)? You would think that the area they cover they would get much bigger crowds. Is it because they still have such a big attachment to the old Llanelli RFC or is it location and PYS would have been better being built somewhere else (like Pembrokeshire)?

I think that the attendances are up, and growing. The area is probably one of the poorest earning in the counrty, and also the transport links are dire. However all in all we are getting an average crowd that would barely fit into Stradey Park now, and we have had a few bumper crowds that would not have fitted in. So IMO that seems to show that the crowds are coming, and like I said building slowly season upon season.

Couple of thoughts...

Until the perception that regions aren't attached to a single club this debate will go on. The need for benefactors is there because of poor attendence.

The only thing that can break this cycle is the WRU.

And let us not forget the real reason for non attendance is because some of the rugby has been absolutely dire. A couple of decent locks, props and good forward coaches would go a long way to solving alot of this.

Except Llanelli, obviously, who are growing crowds at the rate of 8%pa currently.

Former Welsh international joins Valleys Rugby advisory board

Ex Welsh international Adrian Hadley has joined the Valleys Rugby advisory board.

The former Director of Rugby at Sale Sharks and now Deputy CEO at St David’s Hospice Care, the largest independent hospice at home in the country, joins as plans for the fan-owned side pick up pace.

Mr Hadley spent his amateur rugby days with Cardiff RFC, winning 27 Welsh Caps, before turning professional with Salford RLFC in 1988. He joined Widnes RLFC in 1992 and continued to gain international honours.

He came back to rugby union when the game became professional with Sale Sharks as Player Manager and on retiring from the game became the club’s Commercial Director before taking up the Position of Director of Rugby in 1999, a position he held until 2001.

A regular rugby pundit with the BBC, Adrian joined Bridgend RFC as their Chief Executive in December of 2001 and was there until the regional restructuring in 2003.

Pontypridd-born Nigel Greenaway, who is partner at Berry Smith Solicitors and behind the campaign, said of Adrian’s appointment: “Adrian has great experience within rugby both as a player and in a business capacity. He has led top flight teams such as Sale Sharks but also has Welsh rugby experience gained at Bridgend RFC. He is well known within rugby circles and can undoubtedly bring a lot to our advisory board as we continue to shape our plans and drive forward our ambitions of creating a People’s Region.”

Since plans were unveiled for Valleys Rugby at Sardis Road earlier this month, Valleys Rugby has sparked a lot of interest from the local community and former players. The Welsh Rugby Union has now invited Valleys Rugby in to present its plans to the Union’s executive leadership and advisers.

The business model outlines a new type of structure for a region in Wales, where community ownership and engagement is key to its vision. The ‘People’s Region’ is aiming to generate subscription from 10,000 fans at £100 per person, per annum, alongside commercial sponsorship.

On joining the board, Adrian said: “As soon as I heard about plans for Valleys Rugby, I wanted to get involved. The pilot proposal demonstrates that this is both a financially viable and realistic opportunity. At the moment, Welsh regional rugby has some serious flaws, not least in the dwindling and worryingly low crowds that the four existing regions are attracting. You only have to look at Martyn Williams’ farewell game at the Blues recently that only pulled in 3,850 fans, in a 27,000 seat stadium

“The Welsh valleys, the heartland fan base of the game, are disconnected with the current regional structure and from the support we have received to date we are confident that the fan base within the Valleys is strong enough to support such a venture. I’m delighted to be on board and look forward to working with the advisory board to develop the proposed plans further.”

Jimmy Moz wrote:“The Welsh valleys, the heartland fan base of the game..."

Can we expect Adrian Hadley to lie in every statement he makes?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Jimmy Moz wrote:“The Welsh valleys, the heartland fan base of the game..."

Can we expect Adrian Hadley to lie in every statement he makes?

Jimmy Moz wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Jimmy Moz wrote:“The Welsh valleys, the heartland fan base of the game..."

Can we expect Adrian Hadley to lie in every statement he makes?

Jimmy, while you're there do you now why Pontypridd are missing from the Cardiff Blues list of regional clubs?
Not a wind up just nobody seems to know. Click on the link and have a look.

http://www.cardiffblues.com/community/regional_clubs_clubs_in_the_blues_region.php