The Valleys business plan.

First topic message reminder :

http://www.valleysrugby.com/our-players-coaches

Our Region

The boundaries of the Valleys Rugby region will be decided by the fans and the clubs of the Valleys Rugby region.

Geography

Valleys Rugby’s primary objective will be to provide a home for those fans and clubs in Wales that consider themselves to be part of the Valleys community and who want to be part of a professional team for their region.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

Clubs will be invited to affiliate to Valleys Rugby and to host home matches as per the Funding section.

North Wales

Valleys Rugby will also look to provide a resource for the development of the game in North and Mid Wales.

Valleys Rugby would work with the WRU to provide a sustainable development plan. Initially it is proposed that Valleys Rugby provides a 3 year commitment along the following basis:-

Base a permanent player academy in North Wales and a player academy in South Wales. The two academies would meet at a middle ground venue on a monthly basis;
Work closely with North and Mid Wales clubs to identify and develop talented players;
Play 2 Rabo Direct league fixtures in North Wales annually. For consistency purposes, Valleys Rugby would propose that the Edinburgh and Ulster games are played in North Wales annually;
Undertake preparation for the establishment of a similar Community owned business model for a professional franchise for North and Mid Wales.
The ultimate objective of Valleys Rugby would be to assist the WRU with the creation of a viable stand alone model for North and Mid Wales. The North and Mid Wales development would ultimately spin out and away from Valleys Rugby. The introduction of a 3 year timeframe in this proposal is intended to focus efforts on establishing this model within this timeframe.

Our Players & Coaches

Valleys Rugby proposes to operate with a low salary budget for playing staff. On the basis that the Region will carry a playing squad of 32 the total salary cap for this squad would be capped at £1,200,000.

The Region would rely on developing young players and so the above cap is based upon the squad have 12 of its players on salaries of c. £18,000 (£216,000) as young professionals.

The remainder of the playing budget (£984,000) would be available between the remaining 20 players to cover salary costs and incidental costs including national insurance.

The following key points would underpin this salary limit:-

All players to be Welsh qualified or qualifying;

Valleys Rugby players would be under contract with a “player release” available should the player aspire to join another Region. The player release would operate on the basis that Valleys Rugby would allow the release, provided the acquiring Region in return provides to Valleys Rugby an academy or younger professional deemed talented and unable to secure adequate development time at the acquiring Region. If a suitable player were not available from the acquiring Region, Valleys Rugby would look for a fixed level of financial contribution allowing further investment into the Valleys Rugby Community;

Valleys Rugby would operate with an “Area Quota” and so have a squad with at least 20% of its players being developed or from North Wales whilst within its time commitment to North Wales and a further 30% being developed or from the Valleys. See our outline regarding a commitment to North Wales elsewhere in the proposal;

Valleys Rugby would be keen to discuss and review “player policies” annually with the WRU and actively seek to engage the input of the WRU in placing younger or developing players with Valleys Rugby – as guided by the WRU on this important strategic issue;
Valleys Rugby would be keen to work with the Wales 7’s structure, to “home” international 7’s players and develop these within the 15 a side structure;

Valleys Rugby would look to develop a schools and young player academy with the WRU and actively seek to progress WRU policies of youth development within its region. To this end, Valleys rugby would be keen to adopt a “commitment to playing” development “stars” as identified by the WRU and with the other Regions if this became appropriate.
Valleys Rugby would not regard itself as a development region. However, it would absolutely embrace the concept of finding, developing and playing the rugby stars of the future.

The Academy

Valleys Rugby will be closely aligned with the playing academies of all existing Regions in any event and its business model is predicated on the ability to give young professional players game time and development time in the professional environment.

Valleys Rugby would propose to operate 2 playing academies, one based in South Wales and one in North Wales. The North Wales academy would ultimately spin-out into the full North Wales Region when this entity is established.

The 2 playing academies would meet at least monthly in a central geographic location to develop skills and coaching together.

Valleys Rugby would look to work closely with the WRU and allow the WRU to run the academy along the lines it thought most productive. Valleys Rugby would also seek to use the National Academy coaches and managers as often as possible.

Coaches

Valleys Rugby would conform to the coaching and support structure as laid out in the Regional Participation Agreement.

Valleys Rugby would appoint its coaches in conjunction with the WRU and in the interim will be assisted by Lynn Howells, currently the coach of the Romanian National team, formerly coach of Wales, Edinburgh in the Rabo Direct, Doncaster in the English Championship, Celtic Warriors and Pontypridd RFC operating in the role of interim Director of Rugby.

As Valleys Rugby develops, its coaching staff can be identified in more detail. Valleys Rugby would be very keen to work with the National Coaches, and provide these with the opportunity to work with and in the Region as often as desirable and agreed with the WRU.

Our Timescale

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the 2013/4 season.

In the 2012/3 season, if financial backing is secured sufficiently, Valleys Rugby would stage some games to attract interest and demonstrate its operation to potential sponsors.

Competitons

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the Rabo Direct league and in Europe.

In the first 3 years of its existence Valleys Rugby would agree to take on a role within the European Shield tournament rather than the Heineken Cup. This would allow each of the existing Regions to concentrate on the Heineken Cup for a period without having to worry about qualification.

Welsh Rugby would have a committed participant in the Shield tournament and so meet its obligations to this.

It is believed that Valleys Rugby and each of the existing Regions would benefit by this decision.

Name

Valleys Rugby has not proposed a name or nickname.

If a playing name were required then Valleys Rugby CBS would pick this using the majority vote of its members in due course.

Our Stadia

One major advantage of a new Region within Wales would simply be an increase in the number of derby games to the benefit of all of the Regions.

To develop this concept, and to engage in the entire Region, Valleys Rugby proposes hosting its Rabo Direct games in the most geographically advantageous area.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

An illustrative schedule of fixtures to be undertaken by Valleys Rugby might look as follows:-

Fixture Venue
Valleys v. Blues Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Ospreys Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Dragons Eugene Cross Park (Ebbw Vale) / Pontypool Park (Pontypool)
Valleys v. Scarlets Virginia Park (Caerphilly) / Brewery Field (Bridgend)
Valleys v. Leinster Sardis Road (Pontypridd) / The Gnoll (Neath)
Valleys v. Edinburgh Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Ulster Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Munster Penydarren Park (Merthyr)
Valleys v. Treviso Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Aironi Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Connacht Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Glasgow Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
European & LV Games Venues as appropriate
Valleys Rugby would hope to commit to a particular venue on a recurring basis (such as Eugene Cross Park for the Dragons) on the basis that this venue would generate home support for the Valleys and also generate a genuine derby atmosphere.

Fixing the fixture to a specific venue would add certainty to the “location” for supporters and hopefully avoid the crowd dilution effect suffered by Regions when moving to different venues previously.

Each of the grounds hosting Valleys Rugby would have to show adequate support from the ground owner and a commitment to ensure the playing surface and facilities are of adequate standard for Regional rugby.

Ultimately, the venues would be decided upon by the make-up of the affiliated clubs and their financial commitment to the Region.

Sardis Road Stadium

The initial principal stadium of Valleys Rugby would be Sardis Road. In this respect:-

RCT Local Authority has in principle agreed to spend £100,000 on the facility over a 3 year period, improving its drainage and playing surface;
RCT Local Authority has also indicated that it will be prepared to vest control of the asset of Sardis Road into the Community Benefit Society, provided it is satisfied with the "asset lock" provisions adopted by Valleys Rugby CBS.
A scheme for the redevelopment of Sardis Road has been investigated by award winning architects Austin-Smith Lord LLP and images of how a redevelopment could look can be seen here.

However, in its early stages, Valleys Rugby would spend predominantly on pitch improvement and general seating. Hospitality could be provided using marquee facilities and also by linking up with local hotels within the Region. Capital expenditure on hospitality would be required in the future but would not be targeted as an immediate priority.

Training Facilities

The training facilities of the University of Glamorgan would be utilised by Valleys Rugby. Valleys Rugby intends to develop close links with the University through player scholarships and similar schemes.

Travel Plan

Valleys Rugby recognises that an intelligent and well resourced travel plan will be required to maximise attendances at peripatetic Valleys Rugby home matches. Edwards Coaches has already indicated its support for Valleys Rugby and has undertaken to work with the new Region to develop and deliver a comprehensive and cost effective travel offering for Valleys Rugby supporters as part of our unique offering.

Pilot Business Plan

Despite the exceptional and welcome success of the Welsh national team, professional rugby in Wales is still subject to enormous challenges.

These challenges impact upon the financial well being of the game, its long term sustainability and its connection with the supporter base within Wales.

It is realistic to say that the existing Regional structure has had limited success to date and there continues to be a need to develop and improve the offering to rugby supporters throughout Wales, in order to further engage supporters of our national sport.

This document and its schedules provide a proposal for a new Region within the WRU structure.

The proposal is also intended to engage with the supporters of rugby in the Valleys who currently appear to be disenfranchised with the existing concept and also to reach out and attempt to assist the WRU with the development of professional rugby in North Wales.

This paper is presented as an outline document but should be considered as a proposal from which to launch a new Region that is both financially viable and closely aligned with, and owned by, its supporter base.

Valleys Rugby will be owned and controlled by the community it serves.

Valleys Rugby CBS will initially issue shares at £100 each. The shares will be “annual shares” and so need to be subscribed for once a year. Each shareholder, upon buying into Valleys Rugby, would be entitled to:-

Ability to vote and attend meetings of Valleys Rugby CBS;
Priority access to tickets and discounts on match tickets;
Ability to vote on the Board of Directors of Valleys Rugby and alter the executive structure of Valleys Rugby as required by its supporters;
Club magazine;
Discount in the club shop;
Ticket lottery;
Card and Share Certificate, certifying membership (which, if this is linked correctly with the regional businesses, could entitle an owner to discount in local shops in the community for example);
We will target a subscription by 10,000 fans at £100 per person – and using this model have an ability to raise £1,000,000 per annum from the owners of Valleys Rugby CBS.

It is important to note that anyone can subscribe for shares in Valleys Rugby CBS and support the establishment of a top-flight rugby team for the Valleys. Membership will be open to supporters from across Wales and the World.

This subscription and ownership will provide Valleys Rugby CBS with the equivalent of a rugby benefactor.

Fundraising - Clubs

As outlined in the Legal Structure section, Valleys Rugby CBS would own at least 60% of Valleys Rugby Limited.

The remaining balance would be owned by a combination of Affiliated Clubs, the WRU, Local Authorities and other interested parties.

A participation and subscription agreement will govern this ownership. The method and make-up of this element is subject to further investigation and discussion with the WRU and affiliated clubs.

It is envisaged that this element of ownership will also attract revenue into Valleys Rugby on an annual basis. However, if there is insufficient interest, the percentage of Valleys Rugby Limited owned by Valleys Rugby CBS would be increased and further shares made available to public ownership.

Early thoughts include a three tiered scale of club membership along the following lines:-

Junior Club Member - £500 pa;
Senior Club Member - £1,000 pa;
Senior Club Hosting Valleys Rugby Matches - £10,000 pa.
Commercial Sponsors

The commercial activities of Valleys Rugby Commercial Limited are also clearly key to the proposal as sponsorship, ticket sales, TV payments etc will make up the remainder of the balance sheet of Valleys Rugby.

Valleys Rugby will seek a minimum of £300,000 sponsorship per annum and believes the business community would be willing to support this as a venture.

Valleys Rugby at present cannot take full commitment from any sponsors as the concept has not been approved by the WRU. Until such approval takes place formal sponsorship and other commitments cannot be advanced.

However, in a show of support, Valleys Rugby has achieved an indication of sponsorship of £250,000 over a 3 year period from Heads of the Valleys Developments. Letters of support have been received from the following businesses:-

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
The ability to progress this element in detail is difficult unless and until the WRU indicates that it would be willing to support Valleys Rugby being developed as a concept. If this backing can be indicated it is believed that significant sponsorship opportunities can be progressed.

WRU Support

Valleys Rugby would require the support of the WRU to develop its Region, infrastructure and players.

The level of support can be discussed and agreed and will vary depending upon which areas the WRU would want Valleys Rugby to focus and develop.

The current business proposal is predicated on annual “match funding” to be provided by the WRU which would require that the WRU provide funding to Valleys Rugby at a level broadly in line with the members funding provided to Valleys Rugby.

On this basis, Valleys Rugby would seek a minimum of £1,200,000 annual funding from the WRU (via television and other rights) but would not request more than £1,500,000 from the WRU in any year, unless specifically agreed otherwise in partnership with the WRU. Any additional funding agreed would relate to player development funding if required.

This match funding structure would provide a unique partnership between the WRU, the supporters of Valleys Rugby and the traditional rugby clubs affiliated with Valleys Rugby.

If the WRU were keen for Valleys Rugby to assist with the development of professional rugby in North Wales, then Valleys Rugby would also seek the assistance of the WRU in raising any sporting or other grants available to it for the development of rugby in North Wales.

Operating Profit & Loss

A draft operating Profit & Loss can be found within the Business Plan document. It is based on assumptions that are believed to be realistic and shows a break even figure after receipt of £1,000,000 per annum from supporter subscription and £700,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union as Valleys Rugby's share of TV rights, etc.

This loss is prior to any publicly raised funds, club funds or WRU funding. Therefore, the funding structure proposed will cover this shortfall and potentially provides an element of contingency funding.

Sponsorship

We would welcome the support of any persons, organisations or companies who wish to invest in a new community-led model for Welsh Rugby.

Valleys Rugby has already secured the support of twenty commercial sponsors including:

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
For example, Heads of the Valleys Developments Ltd has already pledged a sum of £250,000.

Jimmy Moz wrote:Former Welsh international joins Valleys Rugby advisory board

Ex Welsh international Adrian Hadley has joined the Valleys Rugby advisory board.

On joining the board, Adrian said: “As soon as I heard about plans for Valleys Rugby, I wanted to get involved. The pilot proposal demonstrates that this is both a financially viable and realistic opportunity. At the moment, Welsh regional rugby has some serious flaws, not least in the dwindling and worryingly low crowds that the four existing regions are attracting. You only have to look at Martyn Williams’ farewell game at the Blues recently that only pulled in 3,850 fans, in a 27,000 seat stadium

“The Welsh valleys, the heartland fan base of the game, are disconnected with the current regional structure and from the support we have received to date we are confident that the fan base within the Valleys is strong enough to support such a venture. I’m delighted to be on board and look forward to working with the advisory board to develop the proposed plans further.”

Adrian Hadley is alright by me.
He was the first ex Cardiff player that I heard question the dodgy move to CCS.

Dai - Glamorgan Wanderers are also missing off the list - sorry just spotted them

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dai - Glamorgan Wanderers are also missing off the list - sorry just spotted them

Click on "Wanderers". They've missed out the Glamorgan bit for some reason.

Jimmy Moz wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Jimmy Moz wrote:“The Welsh valleys, the heartland fan base of the game..."

Can we expect Adrian Hadley to lie in every statement he makes?

Well it's not 'the heartland fan base of the game'.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Well it's not 'the heartland fan base of the game'.

Where is then?

I;m not sure what "the heartland fan base means " to be honest but stick a pin in google earth on my street and draw a circle with a five mile radius and I count about 17 maybe 18 rugby clubs . Considering about half the territory is mountains and forest that is some going.Not sure if there are advances on that anywhere else.

I remember Gatland being flown up the valleys in a helicopter by the WRU just to see the number of rugby posts to help him in accepting his job as coach.

Its prob a mistake - god knows theres plenty of other mistakes/absences on the Blues website - Ponty are listed on the map tho http://www.cardiffblues.com/community/regional_clubs_map_of_the_blues_region.php

The point is that there isn't one 'heartland fan base'. It doesn't help Valleys Rugby's cause when a new member of the board says things that aren't true in his very first statement.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dai - Glamorgan Wanderers are also missing off the list - sorry just spotted them

Click on "Wanderers". They've missed out the Glamorgan bit for some reason.

Yeah I spotted that just after posting they were missing, sorry

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Its prob a mistake - god knows theres plenty of other mistakes/absences on the Blues website - Ponty are listed on the map tho http://www.cardiffblues.com/community/regional_clubs_map_of_the_blues_region.php

I said the following on the "One of our clubs is missing thread";

"If you check the map version, you'll see that Ponty are included with all the other clubs. It's only the typed list where they are missing."

Do you reckon it was a mistake or deliberate? Maybe there's nothing in it, but it does seem odd to me.

pontylad wrote:

I remember Gatland being flown up the valleys in a helicopter by the WRU just to see the number of rugby posts to help him in accepting his job as coach.

How extravagent. Couldn't he have taken the bus instead?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dai - Glamorgan Wanderers are also missing off the list - sorry just spotted them

Click on "Wanderers". They've missed out the Glamorgan bit for some reason.

To be fair they are also shown as just "The Wanderers" on the WRU site - http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/club/swalecleagues/tables.php

PenfroPete wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dai - Glamorgan Wanderers are also missing off the list - sorry just spotted them

Click on "Wanderers". They've missed out the Glamorgan bit for some reason.

To be fair they are also shown as just "The Wanderers" on the WRU site - http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/club/swalecleagues/tables.php

That's weird considering how many team's in Wales are called Wanderers (including my local Llanelli Wanderers!)

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

PenfroPete wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dai - Glamorgan Wanderers are also missing off the list - sorry just spotted them

Click on "Wanderers". They've missed out the Glamorgan bit for some reason.

To be fair they are also shown as just "The Wanderers" on the WRU site - http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/club/swalecleagues/tables.php

That's weird considering how many team's in Wales are called Wanderers (including my local Llanelli Wanderers!)

Couldn't fit all the letters in the box maybe, so they just put "The Wanderers".

I suppose there's a lot to be said for efficiency!

http://www.valleysrugby.com/valleys-rugby-revise-pilot-proposal-ahead-of-wru-meeting?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

It's heartbreaking that so much effort, goodwill and time is going to be wasted.

Glas a du wrote:It's heartbreaking that so much effort, goodwill and time is going to be wasted.

You're probably right and if anything has been revised it would have to include the following;

"We will target a subscription by 10,000 fans at £100 per person."

"a three tiered scale of club membership along the following lines:-

Junior Club Member - £500 pa;
Senior Club Member - £1,000 pa;
Senior Club Hosting Valleys Rugby Matches - £10,000 pa."

What I particularly don't understand is how a target subscription has been set at 10,000 fans when most grounds they are considering playing at are unable to accommodate that number.

Cardiff Dave wrote:What I particularly don't understand is how a target subscription has been set at 10,000 fans when most grounds they are considering playing at are unable to accommodate that number.

Anybody would think the whole shebango was dreamt up by a bunch of idiots, no?

Bois,

Who knows what's going to happen? Have the results of the PWC audit been made public? If not, the regions are going to stay as they are, with some minor restructuring and perhaps central funding, but not contracts, for some "elite" players, to support the regions.

If the results had been made available, then there would have been more public impetus to force change.....

To my knowledge, nothing has been leaked about the audit which would suggest the first option.

Or I could be talking out of my ......

We're all in the dark. Until the WRU makes an announcement, all we can do is speculate.

Fun isn't it!

I'd rather know what the craic is, to be honest!

Would a supporter of this endeavour please explain to me why 10,000 people will pay £100 each every year just to own a share in this?

On top of that the business case calls for thousands of people to go and watch the actual rugby and spend hundreds of pounds on tickets, merchandise and food. That's a big financial obligation to watch a squad of academy players and players happy to earn half what their opposition make.

The current four regions are not in a good place financially. The financial projections for this Vallleys team look fanciful. If this was Dragons Den there would be a chorus of "I'm Out".

It'll be a fudge that satisfies nobody, that much is certain.

offload wrote:Would a supporter of this endeavour please explain to me why 10,000 people will pay £100 each every year just to own a share in this?

On top of that the business case calls for thousands of people to go and watch the actual rugby and spend hundreds of pounds on tickets, merchandise and food. That's a big financial obligation to watch a squad of academy players and players happy to earn half what their opposition make.

The current four regions are not in a good place financially. The financial projections for this Vallleys team look fanciful. If this was Dragons Den there would be a chorus of "I'm Out".

But Owen Smith is shadow Welsh Secretary on the back of it, so every cloud...

Yes Glas, the people of Pontypridd must feel like they won the lottery....

I can't believe this mug is replacing Peter Hain!!!

They want 10,000 people to invest £100 every season as well as pay entrance fee for all games, then they only get 3000 to watch them play Llanelli in the Premiership final with obviously many Llanelli fans present. Cloud Cuckoo Land I think

I don't understand why some fans of other regions are so vehemently opposed to the Valleys idea?

It's not as if it's going to disrupt a position of Welsh dominance in the HC or even the Rabo, is it?

If we're going to have mediocre teams, we may as well have 5 as have 4 - at least it will give a few more youngsters a run out.

Casartelli wrote:I don't understand why some fans of other regions are so vehemently opposed to the Valleys idea?

I don't think they are opposing the idea as such and i'm all for it.
It's just that some of the funding proposals seem ill thought out and plain daft to say the least especially when the team would most probably get well beaten every week.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Casartelli wrote:I don't understand why some fans of other regions are so vehemently opposed to the Valleys idea?

I don't think they are opposing the idea as such and i'm all for it.
It's just that some of the funding proposals seem ill thought out and plain daft to say the least especially when the team would most probably get well beaten every week.

Exactly - ill thought out funding proposals and regularly beaten teams (with some occasional exceptions) have been order of the day for the last decade in Wales - so an extra one isn't going to make any difference, other than getting some youngsters off bench-warming duty.

We've settled for the mediocrity of the current 'regional' structure, but one more team could at least develop a few more youngsters for the national team.

Nothing else matters, really.

Before the 'exodus' I would have agreed with you, but England and France are our fifth region.

Casartelli wrote:

Exactly - ill thought out funding proposals and regularly beaten teams (with some occasional exceptions) have been order of the day for the last decade in Wales - so an extra one isn't going to make any difference, other than getting some youngsters off bench-warming duty.

We've settled for the mediocrity of the current 'regional' structure, but one more team could at least develop a few more youngsters for the national team.

Nothing else matters, really.

I haven't.

Vf

Casartelli wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Casartelli wrote:I don't understand why some fans of other regions are so vehemently opposed to the Valleys idea?

I don't think they are opposing the idea as such and i'm all for it.
It's just that some of the funding proposals seem ill thought out and plain daft to say the least especially when the team would most probably get well beaten every week.

Exactly - ill thought out funding proposals and regularly beaten teams (with some occasional exceptions) have been order of the day for the last decade in Wales - so an extra one isn't going to make any difference, other than getting some youngsters off bench-warming duty.

We've settled for the mediocrity of the current 'regional' structure, but one more team could at least develop a few more youngsters for the national team.

Nothing else matters, really.

Ive always wanted a return of the Warriors AND a N Wales region but for ur comments the mediocrity of the current clubs has secured over half of the celtic/pro12 titles to welsh teams, a edf and amlin trophy, a few hec semi finals and had represntation in all pro12 playoffs.
Maybe the wru would rather the current 4 regions to 5 definately bankrupted regions.

There are still too many Welsh youngsters sitting on the bench or not getting a chance to play. If we had a strong club Premiership to keep them active it would be good but the current setup doesnt not accommodate for academy players coming of age like it should

Adrian Hadley, a member of the Valleys Rugby advisory board said: “It would appear that the recent announcement from the Blues to take matches to Sardis Road is a knee-jerk reaction following months of campaigning from Valleys Rugby to bring back professional rugby to the Valleys region.

“This announcement is nine years too late and is only coming on the back of our campaign. The fact that they are suggesting that only LV games will be played at the ground proves that it is only a token gesture.

“Our pilot proposal to bring professional rugby back to the Valleys has clearly highlighted that the Blues is not doing anything to engage the Valleys supporters with its region. However the fact is that it is unlikely Valleys rugby supporters will ever truly embrace a Cardiff team. It is our vision to create a ‘People’s Region’ where community ownership and engagement is key to its vision.

“The Welsh valleys, the heartland fanbase of the game, are disconnected with the current regional structure and we can’t see how playing a few token games at Sardis Road is going to change that.”

The anti Cardiff stuff from Ponty fans and now Valleys rugby is music to my ears.

Cardiff Dave wrote:The anti Cardiff stuff from Ponty fans and now Valleys rugby is music to my ears.

Any reason for that being a Cardiff fan yourself Dave?

Steffan wrote:There are still too many Welsh youngsters sitting on the bench or not getting a chance to play. If we had a strong club Premiership to keep them active it would be good but the current setup doesnt not accommodate for academy players coming of age like it should

So what are you suggesting?
A new "region" made up of mainly youngsters who aren't quite good enough to play for the proper "regions", but the team would play in the Pro12? They would be munched week in, week out guaranteed.
Something to think about; if these Welsh youngsters are good enough, maybe "outsiders" could give them a break like Rhys Gill or Darren Allinson or....

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:There are still too many Welsh youngsters sitting on the bench or not getting a chance to play. If we had a strong club Premiership to keep them active it would be good but the current setup doesnt not accommodate for academy players coming of age like it should

So what are you suggesting?
A new "region" made up of mainly youngsters who aren't quite good enough to play for the proper "regions", but the team would play in the Pro12? They would be munched week in, week out guaranteed

I was referring to more to the lack of competitiveness in the Premiership than another region. If the Valleys team did happen I doubt it would be a development region in the end the area that is being planned produces more than enough talent to be up there with the others. Its Cardiff Blues and Newport Dragons who would suffer due which as stand alone teams is ok anyway

Steffan wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:The anti Cardiff stuff from Ponty fans and now Valleys rugby is music to my ears.

Any reason for that being a Cardiff fan yourself Dave?

Me a Cardiff fan? How did you guess?
Come on Steffan, it's obvious isn't it?
The whole regional nonsense is being torn apart online left, right and centre in front of our own eyes without even a single game being staged at Sardis.
Yes I love it.

Oh come on, lay off the Blues and Pete. I don't think they feel threated by the VR campaign, which realist would? Perhaps it was just the kick up the arse they needed to involve Ponty and the other valleys that they are supposed to represent. And it has been a big kick.

Morgannwg wrote:Oh come on, lay off the Blues and Pete. I don't think they feel threated by the VR campaign, which realist would? Perhaps it was just the kick up the arse they needed to involve Ponty and the other valleys that they are supposed to represent. And it has been a big kick.

Never in a million years.
"involve Ponty"???? FFS.
The "other valleys", well who are they and do they give a **** anyway? No they don't.
What big kick are you on about?

The big kick being the campaign, getting Adrian Hadley on board, securing a kit sponsor, the pilot proposal, the revised proposal.... Goes to show how these people feel I think.

They may give a sh it, they may not. But aren't Blues meant to represent them no matter what a Cardiff boy thinks?

Morgannwg wrote:The big kick being the campaign, getting Adrian Hadley on board, securing a kit sponsor, the pilot proposal, the revised proposal.... Goes to show how these people feel I think.

They may give a sh it, they may not. But aren't Blues meant to represent them no matter what a Cardiff boy thinks?

Because the WRU said so, yes.

Well there we are then.

Morgannwg wrote:Well there we are then.

Sod the WRU.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Well there we are then.

Sod the WRU.

Give back the millions of pounds they give you for 'developing you region' then