The Valleys business plan.

First topic message reminder :

http://www.valleysrugby.com/our-players-coaches

Our Region

The boundaries of the Valleys Rugby region will be decided by the fans and the clubs of the Valleys Rugby region.

Geography

Valleys Rugby’s primary objective will be to provide a home for those fans and clubs in Wales that consider themselves to be part of the Valleys community and who want to be part of a professional team for their region.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

Clubs will be invited to affiliate to Valleys Rugby and to host home matches as per the Funding section.

North Wales

Valleys Rugby will also look to provide a resource for the development of the game in North and Mid Wales.

Valleys Rugby would work with the WRU to provide a sustainable development plan. Initially it is proposed that Valleys Rugby provides a 3 year commitment along the following basis:-

Base a permanent player academy in North Wales and a player academy in South Wales. The two academies would meet at a middle ground venue on a monthly basis;
Work closely with North and Mid Wales clubs to identify and develop talented players;
Play 2 Rabo Direct league fixtures in North Wales annually. For consistency purposes, Valleys Rugby would propose that the Edinburgh and Ulster games are played in North Wales annually;
Undertake preparation for the establishment of a similar Community owned business model for a professional franchise for North and Mid Wales.
The ultimate objective of Valleys Rugby would be to assist the WRU with the creation of a viable stand alone model for North and Mid Wales. The North and Mid Wales development would ultimately spin out and away from Valleys Rugby. The introduction of a 3 year timeframe in this proposal is intended to focus efforts on establishing this model within this timeframe.

Our Players & Coaches

Valleys Rugby proposes to operate with a low salary budget for playing staff. On the basis that the Region will carry a playing squad of 32 the total salary cap for this squad would be capped at £1,200,000.

The Region would rely on developing young players and so the above cap is based upon the squad have 12 of its players on salaries of c. £18,000 (£216,000) as young professionals.

The remainder of the playing budget (£984,000) would be available between the remaining 20 players to cover salary costs and incidental costs including national insurance.

The following key points would underpin this salary limit:-

All players to be Welsh qualified or qualifying;

Valleys Rugby players would be under contract with a “player release” available should the player aspire to join another Region. The player release would operate on the basis that Valleys Rugby would allow the release, provided the acquiring Region in return provides to Valleys Rugby an academy or younger professional deemed talented and unable to secure adequate development time at the acquiring Region. If a suitable player were not available from the acquiring Region, Valleys Rugby would look for a fixed level of financial contribution allowing further investment into the Valleys Rugby Community;

Valleys Rugby would operate with an “Area Quota” and so have a squad with at least 20% of its players being developed or from North Wales whilst within its time commitment to North Wales and a further 30% being developed or from the Valleys. See our outline regarding a commitment to North Wales elsewhere in the proposal;

Valleys Rugby would be keen to discuss and review “player policies” annually with the WRU and actively seek to engage the input of the WRU in placing younger or developing players with Valleys Rugby – as guided by the WRU on this important strategic issue;
Valleys Rugby would be keen to work with the Wales 7’s structure, to “home” international 7’s players and develop these within the 15 a side structure;

Valleys Rugby would look to develop a schools and young player academy with the WRU and actively seek to progress WRU policies of youth development within its region. To this end, Valleys rugby would be keen to adopt a “commitment to playing” development “stars” as identified by the WRU and with the other Regions if this became appropriate.
Valleys Rugby would not regard itself as a development region. However, it would absolutely embrace the concept of finding, developing and playing the rugby stars of the future.

The Academy

Valleys Rugby will be closely aligned with the playing academies of all existing Regions in any event and its business model is predicated on the ability to give young professional players game time and development time in the professional environment.

Valleys Rugby would propose to operate 2 playing academies, one based in South Wales and one in North Wales. The North Wales academy would ultimately spin-out into the full North Wales Region when this entity is established.

The 2 playing academies would meet at least monthly in a central geographic location to develop skills and coaching together.

Valleys Rugby would look to work closely with the WRU and allow the WRU to run the academy along the lines it thought most productive. Valleys Rugby would also seek to use the National Academy coaches and managers as often as possible.

Coaches

Valleys Rugby would conform to the coaching and support structure as laid out in the Regional Participation Agreement.

Valleys Rugby would appoint its coaches in conjunction with the WRU and in the interim will be assisted by Lynn Howells, currently the coach of the Romanian National team, formerly coach of Wales, Edinburgh in the Rabo Direct, Doncaster in the English Championship, Celtic Warriors and Pontypridd RFC operating in the role of interim Director of Rugby.

As Valleys Rugby develops, its coaching staff can be identified in more detail. Valleys Rugby would be very keen to work with the National Coaches, and provide these with the opportunity to work with and in the Region as often as desirable and agreed with the WRU.

Our Timescale

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the 2013/4 season.

In the 2012/3 season, if financial backing is secured sufficiently, Valleys Rugby would stage some games to attract interest and demonstrate its operation to potential sponsors.

Competitons

Valleys Rugby would look to compete in the Rabo Direct league and in Europe.

In the first 3 years of its existence Valleys Rugby would agree to take on a role within the European Shield tournament rather than the Heineken Cup. This would allow each of the existing Regions to concentrate on the Heineken Cup for a period without having to worry about qualification.

Welsh Rugby would have a committed participant in the Shield tournament and so meet its obligations to this.

It is believed that Valleys Rugby and each of the existing Regions would benefit by this decision.

Name

Valleys Rugby has not proposed a name or nickname.

If a playing name were required then Valleys Rugby CBS would pick this using the majority vote of its members in due course.

Our Stadia

One major advantage of a new Region within Wales would simply be an increase in the number of derby games to the benefit of all of the Regions.

To develop this concept, and to engage in the entire Region, Valleys Rugby proposes hosting its Rabo Direct games in the most geographically advantageous area.

In order to capitalise on strong local support from fans and Rhondda Cynon Taf Local Authority, and predicated upon evidence of core established attendance figures, we have recommended that Sardis Road be the "home" of Valleys Rugby.

However, Valleys Rugby will also host up to 50% of its home matches at clubs throughout its region, in stadia capable of hosting professional Rugby fixtures - either now or in the future.

An illustrative schedule of fixtures to be undertaken by Valleys Rugby might look as follows:-

Fixture Venue
Valleys v. Blues Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Ospreys Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Dragons Eugene Cross Park (Ebbw Vale) / Pontypool Park (Pontypool)
Valleys v. Scarlets Virginia Park (Caerphilly) / Brewery Field (Bridgend)
Valleys v. Leinster Sardis Road (Pontypridd) / The Gnoll (Neath)
Valleys v. Edinburgh Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Ulster Parc Eirias (Colwyn Bay)
Valleys v. Munster Penydarren Park (Merthyr)
Valleys v. Treviso Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Aironi Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Connacht Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
Valleys v. Glasgow Sardis Road (Pontypridd)
European & LV Games Venues as appropriate
Valleys Rugby would hope to commit to a particular venue on a recurring basis (such as Eugene Cross Park for the Dragons) on the basis that this venue would generate home support for the Valleys and also generate a genuine derby atmosphere.

Fixing the fixture to a specific venue would add certainty to the “location” for supporters and hopefully avoid the crowd dilution effect suffered by Regions when moving to different venues previously.

Each of the grounds hosting Valleys Rugby would have to show adequate support from the ground owner and a commitment to ensure the playing surface and facilities are of adequate standard for Regional rugby.

Ultimately, the venues would be decided upon by the make-up of the affiliated clubs and their financial commitment to the Region.

Sardis Road Stadium

The initial principal stadium of Valleys Rugby would be Sardis Road. In this respect:-

RCT Local Authority has in principle agreed to spend £100,000 on the facility over a 3 year period, improving its drainage and playing surface;
RCT Local Authority has also indicated that it will be prepared to vest control of the asset of Sardis Road into the Community Benefit Society, provided it is satisfied with the "asset lock" provisions adopted by Valleys Rugby CBS.
A scheme for the redevelopment of Sardis Road has been investigated by award winning architects Austin-Smith Lord LLP and images of how a redevelopment could look can be seen here.

However, in its early stages, Valleys Rugby would spend predominantly on pitch improvement and general seating. Hospitality could be provided using marquee facilities and also by linking up with local hotels within the Region. Capital expenditure on hospitality would be required in the future but would not be targeted as an immediate priority.

Training Facilities

The training facilities of the University of Glamorgan would be utilised by Valleys Rugby. Valleys Rugby intends to develop close links with the University through player scholarships and similar schemes.

Travel Plan

Valleys Rugby recognises that an intelligent and well resourced travel plan will be required to maximise attendances at peripatetic Valleys Rugby home matches. Edwards Coaches has already indicated its support for Valleys Rugby and has undertaken to work with the new Region to develop and deliver a comprehensive and cost effective travel offering for Valleys Rugby supporters as part of our unique offering.

Pilot Business Plan

Despite the exceptional and welcome success of the Welsh national team, professional rugby in Wales is still subject to enormous challenges.

These challenges impact upon the financial well being of the game, its long term sustainability and its connection with the supporter base within Wales.

It is realistic to say that the existing Regional structure has had limited success to date and there continues to be a need to develop and improve the offering to rugby supporters throughout Wales, in order to further engage supporters of our national sport.

This document and its schedules provide a proposal for a new Region within the WRU structure.

The proposal is also intended to engage with the supporters of rugby in the Valleys who currently appear to be disenfranchised with the existing concept and also to reach out and attempt to assist the WRU with the development of professional rugby in North Wales.

This paper is presented as an outline document but should be considered as a proposal from which to launch a new Region that is both financially viable and closely aligned with, and owned by, its supporter base.

Valleys Rugby will be owned and controlled by the community it serves.

Valleys Rugby CBS will initially issue shares at £100 each. The shares will be “annual shares” and so need to be subscribed for once a year. Each shareholder, upon buying into Valleys Rugby, would be entitled to:-

Ability to vote and attend meetings of Valleys Rugby CBS;
Priority access to tickets and discounts on match tickets;
Ability to vote on the Board of Directors of Valleys Rugby and alter the executive structure of Valleys Rugby as required by its supporters;
Club magazine;
Discount in the club shop;
Ticket lottery;
Card and Share Certificate, certifying membership (which, if this is linked correctly with the regional businesses, could entitle an owner to discount in local shops in the community for example);
We will target a subscription by 10,000 fans at £100 per person – and using this model have an ability to raise £1,000,000 per annum from the owners of Valleys Rugby CBS.

It is important to note that anyone can subscribe for shares in Valleys Rugby CBS and support the establishment of a top-flight rugby team for the Valleys. Membership will be open to supporters from across Wales and the World.

This subscription and ownership will provide Valleys Rugby CBS with the equivalent of a rugby benefactor.

Fundraising - Clubs

As outlined in the Legal Structure section, Valleys Rugby CBS would own at least 60% of Valleys Rugby Limited.

The remaining balance would be owned by a combination of Affiliated Clubs, the WRU, Local Authorities and other interested parties.

A participation and subscription agreement will govern this ownership. The method and make-up of this element is subject to further investigation and discussion with the WRU and affiliated clubs.

It is envisaged that this element of ownership will also attract revenue into Valleys Rugby on an annual basis. However, if there is insufficient interest, the percentage of Valleys Rugby Limited owned by Valleys Rugby CBS would be increased and further shares made available to public ownership.

Early thoughts include a three tiered scale of club membership along the following lines:-

Junior Club Member - £500 pa;
Senior Club Member - £1,000 pa;
Senior Club Hosting Valleys Rugby Matches - £10,000 pa.
Commercial Sponsors

The commercial activities of Valleys Rugby Commercial Limited are also clearly key to the proposal as sponsorship, ticket sales, TV payments etc will make up the remainder of the balance sheet of Valleys Rugby.

Valleys Rugby will seek a minimum of £300,000 sponsorship per annum and believes the business community would be willing to support this as a venture.

Valleys Rugby at present cannot take full commitment from any sponsors as the concept has not been approved by the WRU. Until such approval takes place formal sponsorship and other commitments cannot be advanced.

However, in a show of support, Valleys Rugby has achieved an indication of sponsorship of £250,000 over a 3 year period from Heads of the Valleys Developments. Letters of support have been received from the following businesses:-

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
The ability to progress this element in detail is difficult unless and until the WRU indicates that it would be willing to support Valleys Rugby being developed as a concept. If this backing can be indicated it is believed that significant sponsorship opportunities can be progressed.

WRU Support

Valleys Rugby would require the support of the WRU to develop its Region, infrastructure and players.

The level of support can be discussed and agreed and will vary depending upon which areas the WRU would want Valleys Rugby to focus and develop.

The current business proposal is predicated on annual “match funding” to be provided by the WRU which would require that the WRU provide funding to Valleys Rugby at a level broadly in line with the members funding provided to Valleys Rugby.

On this basis, Valleys Rugby would seek a minimum of £1,200,000 annual funding from the WRU (via television and other rights) but would not request more than £1,500,000 from the WRU in any year, unless specifically agreed otherwise in partnership with the WRU. Any additional funding agreed would relate to player development funding if required.

This match funding structure would provide a unique partnership between the WRU, the supporters of Valleys Rugby and the traditional rugby clubs affiliated with Valleys Rugby.

If the WRU were keen for Valleys Rugby to assist with the development of professional rugby in North Wales, then Valleys Rugby would also seek the assistance of the WRU in raising any sporting or other grants available to it for the development of rugby in North Wales.

Operating Profit & Loss

A draft operating Profit & Loss can be found within the Business Plan document. It is based on assumptions that are believed to be realistic and shows a break even figure after receipt of £1,000,000 per annum from supporter subscription and £700,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union as Valleys Rugby's share of TV rights, etc.

This loss is prior to any publicly raised funds, club funds or WRU funding. Therefore, the funding structure proposed will cover this shortfall and potentially provides an element of contingency funding.

Sponsorship

We would welcome the support of any persons, organisations or companies who wish to invest in a new community-led model for Welsh Rugby.

Valleys Rugby has already secured the support of twenty commercial sponsors including:

Heads of the Valleys Developments;
Acorn Recruitment;
Berry Smith LLP;
COS Group Limited;
Natural Power Wales;
Bluegg Creative;
HJBW Law;
SRB Legal;
Seer Green;
Nathan James Estate Agents;
Yolk Recruitment;
Skogstad UK;
Edwards Coaches.
For example, Heads of the Valleys Developments Ltd has already pledged a sum of £250,000.

Steffan wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Steffan wrote:There are still too many Welsh youngsters sitting on the bench or not getting a chance to play. If we had a strong club Premiership to keep them active it would be good but the current setup doesnt not accommodate for academy players coming of age like it should

So what are you suggesting?
A new "region" made up of mainly youngsters who aren't quite good enough to play for the proper "regions", but the team would play in the Pro12? They would be munched week in, week out guaranteed

I was referring to more to the lack of competitiveness in the Premiership than another region. If the Valleys team did happen I doubt it would be a development region in the end the area that is being planned produces more than enough talent to be up there with the others. Its Cardiff Blues and Newport Dragons who would suffer due which as stand alone teams is ok anyway

True the area does produce some great talent, but even in the past with Ponty in full flow they couldn't stop players going to Cardiff for more money, and they certainly couldn't attract players from the other valleys to Ponty instead of going to Cardiff/Newport.
They will be a development region because of their budget, unless a lots more money is found to enable them to offer competitive wages for these future internationals.
As once these players get to a certain level they will want to be paid more and will also attract the attention of the other regions - who have significantly more money that the proposed VR.

As you say it will allow more youngsters to play rugby but as VR's budget won't allow them many experienced players and barely any top class players, and they'll stuggle to hold onto their best youngsters then these youngsters will get hammered every week more than likely, which isn't great for development - and the ones that are left at VR are more than likely to be the ones not good enough for the other regions (who have much more money to sign them)

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Well there we are then.

Sod the WRU.

Give back the millions of pounds they give you for 'developing you region' then

What do the WRU "give" that isn't either earned by or owed to, Cardiff?

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

True the area does produce some great talent, but even in the past with Ponty in full flow they couldn't stop players going to Cardiff for more money, and they certainly couldn't attract players from the other valleys to Ponty instead of going to Cardiff/Newport.
They will be a development region because of their budget, unless a lots more money is found to enable them to offer competitive wages for these future internationals.
As once these players get to a certain level they will want to be paid more and will also attract the attention of the other regions - who have significantly more money that the proposed VR.

As you say it will allow more youngsters to play rugby but as VR's budget won't allow them many experienced players and barely any top class players, and they'll stuggle to hold onto their best youngsters then these youngsters will get hammered every week more than likely, which isn't great for development - and the ones that are left at VR are more than likely to be the ones not good enough for the other regions (who have much more money to sign them)

Attention from elsewhere aswell; see Rhys Gill and Darren Allinson to name but two.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Well there we are then.

Sod the WRU.

Give back the millions of pounds they give you for 'developing you region' then

What do the WRU "give" that isn't either earned by or owed to, Cardiff?

Umm - quite a lot that the regions don't earn (seeing as they run at a loss) - especially since the regions demanded more money for international player release, bring the amount given by the WRU to far more than any TV rights. (and the money the WRU give to each region for them to develop talent with their region (their whole region) and to improve their academy)

Steffan wrote:Adrian Hadley, a member of the Valleys Rugby advisory board said: “It would appear that the recent announcement from the Blues to take matches to Sardis Road is a knee-jerk reaction following months of campaigning from Valleys Rugby to bring back professional rugby to the Valleys region.

“This announcement is nine years too late and is only coming on the back of our campaign. The fact that they are suggesting that only LV games will be played at the ground proves that it is only a token gesture.

“Our pilot proposal to bring professional rugby back to the Valleys has clearly highlighted that the Blues is not doing anything to engage the Valleys supporters with its region. However the fact is that it is unlikely Valleys rugby supporters will ever truly embrace a Cardiff team. It is our vision to create a ‘People’s Region’ where community ownership and engagement is key to its vision.

“The Welsh valleys, the heartland fanbase of the game, are disconnected with the current regional structure and we can’t see how playing a few token games at Sardis Road is going to change that.”

Is this going to be his lie-mantra?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Steffan wrote:Adrian Hadley, a member of the Valleys Rugby advisory board said: “It would appear that the recent announcement from the Blues to take matches to Sardis Road is a knee-jerk reaction following months of campaigning from Valleys Rugby to bring back professional rugby to the Valleys region.

“This announcement is nine years too late and is only coming on the back of our campaign. The fact that they are suggesting that only LV games will be played at the ground proves that it is only a token gesture.

“Our pilot proposal to bring professional rugby back to the Valleys has clearly highlighted that the Blues is not doing anything to engage the Valleys supporters with its region. However the fact is that it is unlikely Valleys rugby supporters will ever truly embrace a Cardiff team. It is our vision to create a ‘People’s Region’ where community ownership and engagement is key to its vision.

“The Welsh valleys, the heartland fanbase of the game, are disconnected with the current regional structure and we can’t see how playing a few token games at Sardis Road is going to change that.”

Is this going to be his lie-mantra?

Its not a lie...its an opinion

If an opinion is untrue, that makes it a lie.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If an opinion is untrue, that makes it a lie.

Thats the most stupidest thing iv ever heard

Yesterday morning my opinion was that Leinster would beat the Ospreys. That turned out to be an untrue opinion. So that makes me a liar then?

On Saturday morning it was my opinion that Carl Froch would lose to Lucian Bute in the boxing. He didnt. Does that make me a liar?

I also think that Germany will win the Euros 2012. Thats my opinion. If they dont does that make me a liar

Hadnt really thought that comment through have you...

Replace untrue with not genuine and you get the idea.

Steffan, all he needs to do is replace 'the' with 'a' and there's no problem.

Also, it's either 'stupidest' or 'most stupid'.

Glas a du wrote:Replace untrue with not genuine and you get the idea.

We dont really know though whether Hadley believes it or not do we but iv had this debate about the heartland of Welsh Rugby with people I used to work with before. Its all down to opinion you will find. Either way I dont think calling someone a liar is a particually nice thing to do though but I tend to have a lot more manners and decency than people like Luckless Pedestrian

Fine, I shouldn't have said lie-mantra. But I don't think he's doing himself nor Valleys Rugby any favours by making declarations like that.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Fine, I shouldn't have said lie-mantra

See, I do have manners.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:See, I do have manners.

Good to hear it

I agree with Adrian Hadley that the Blues' offer / promise to play the odd game at Sardis Road is a bit of a sop. It's like the Olympic flame coming to Wales, which is supposed us to make us feel part of what has always been the London Games.

And that's another thing, who is Sepp Coe to be telling us what flags we can and can not fly. Flag fascist!

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

What do the WRU "give" that isn't either earned by or owed to, Cardiff?

Umm - quite a lot that the regions don't earn (seeing as they run at a loss) - especially since the regions demanded more money for international player release, bring the amount given by the WRU to far more than any TV rights. (and the money the WRU give to each region for them to develop talent with their region (their whole region) and to improve their academy)

You make it sound as if this money is a gift from the WRU when the vast majority of this cash isn't. Academy funding aside, the rest comes from tv rights, European competition participation and payment for access to the employees of the 4. Therefore the 4 are entitled to this cash as it is rightfully theirs. The WRU merely distribute it and I believe they take their own cut too.
As for the regions running at a loss, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Cardiff Blues make a small profit next season.
IIRC, before they got dragged to CCS, they lost around £800,000, but that was with a squad costing about £4.5m. Without the crippling burden of CCS together with a £3.5m salary cap that's got to be £2m saved at a stroke. Add to that increased ticket sales and the end to vast numbers of freebies there is every chance they could see a profit.

Glas a du wrote:And that's another thing, who is Sepp Coe to be telling us what flags we can and can not fly. Flag fascist!

I always knew he was a fascist. That's why I always supported "Red Steve" Ovett.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

What do the WRU "give" that isn't either earned by or owed to, Cardiff?

Umm - quite a lot that the regions don't earn (seeing as they run at a loss) - especially since the regions demanded more money for international player release, bring the amount given by the WRU to far more than any TV rights. (and the money the WRU give to each region for them to develop talent with their region (their whole region) and to improve their academy)

You make it sound as if this money is a gift from the WRU when the vast majority of this cash isn't. Academy funding aside, the rest comes from tv rights, European competition participation and payment for access to the employees of the 4. Therefore the 4 are entitled to this cash as it is rightfully theirs. The WRU merely distribute it and I believe they take their own cut too.
As for the regions running at a loss, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Cardiff Blues make a small profit next season.
IIRC, before they got dragged to CCS, they lost around £800,000, but that was with a squad costing about £4.5m. Without the crippling burden of CCS together with a £3.5m salary cap that's got to be £2m saved at a stroke. Add to that increased ticket sales and the end to vast numbers of freebies there is every chance they could see a profit.

No the money isn't a gift the money is paid for development of players/the region, and for access to the international players - remember it got increased, and then increased again to the £6m 4ways we have now, after the regions demanded more money for player release around 2 years? ago. It doesn't come from TV rights - some of it does I agree but the additional money that was demanded as well as a significant amount of the original comes from the WRU's money (which comes from Wales games TV money and merchandising as well as the HEC/Amlin/Pro12 rugby)

Grand Slam winning captain joins Valleys Rugby campaign

Former Wales captain and British & Irish Lion Michael Owen has joined the Valleys Rugby advisory board as it continues with its crusade of bringing professional rugby back to the Valleys.

The 41-times capped player, who captained Wales to its first Grand Slam in 27 years in the 2005 tournament, has agreed to join the board and support Valleys Rugby with its campaign of creating the "People's Region."

Pontypridd-born Owen represented his home team from the tender age of 17 where he played alongside his heroes such as Neil Jenkins, Paul John and Dale McIntosh. The highlight of his Pontypridd career was the 2001-2 season which saw this promising young team deliver by winning the Principality Cup and reaching the final of the European Challenge Cup.

He then went on to represent the Gwent Dragons, Wales, the Barbarians and the British & Irish Lions before being forced to retire from rugby when playing for the Saracens in 2010 following persistent knee injuries.

Since his rugby career, Owen has achieved a business and sport degree at the University of Hertfordshire alongside a coaching career at Hertford RFC.

A passionate Valleys man, Owen will accompany Valleys Rugby on its imminent meeting with the WRU where it seeks to gain support to develop the region, infrastructure and players.

On joining Valleys Rugby Owen said:

"The future of rugby in Wales cannot be dictated by financial considerations alone. Rugby is a part of our heritage and our communities and everyone involved in the game must recognise that and work to sustain the game within those traditional communities. The success and support of Pontypridd RFC and the public interest in the concept of Valleys Rugby are both evidence of the demand that is out there for a return of top flight rugby to the Valleys heartlands. The WRU must recognise that too, and deliver a blueprint for change that would revitalise the game in this traditional community."

Shadow Secretary of State for Wales, Owen Smith, said:

"Michael is a Valleys Man and a great Valleys rugby player. He understands our communities and the value they attach to having professional rugby return to its Valleys heartland. That's why I'm delighted that he he's joined the Valleys Rugby team to show his support for great clubs like Pontypridd RFC and the wider Valleys rugby community."

Nigel Greenaway, who is partner at Berry Smith Solicitors and behind the campaign, said of Michael’s appointment:

"It is great to have someone of Michael's stature join the board to help us with our efforts. As a renowned and respected player and a passionate Valleys man he will be a real asset to our team. We have now revised and restructured our business plan and look forward to meeting with the WRU over the next few weeks to drive forward with our ambitions."

offload wrote:Would a supporter of this endeavour please explain to me why 10,000 people will pay £100 each every year just to own a share in this?

On top of that the business case calls for thousands of people to go and watch the actual rugby and spend hundreds of pounds on tickets, merchandise and food. That's a big financial obligation to watch a squad of academy players and players happy to earn half what their opposition make.

The current four regions are not in a good place financially. The financial projections for this Vallleys team look fanciful. If this was Dragons Den there would be a chorus of "I'm Out".

Nice to see another supporter.
However I posted the above a while ago, any thoughts from supporters of this initiative on how on earth the business case stacks up.

offload wrote:

offload wrote:Would a supporter of this endeavour please explain to me why 10,000 people will pay £100 each every year just to own a share in this?

On top of that the business case calls for thousands of people to go and watch the actual rugby and spend hundreds of pounds on tickets, merchandise and food. That's a big financial obligation to watch a squad of academy players and players happy to earn half what their opposition make.

The current four regions are not in a good place financially. The financial projections for this Vallleys team look fanciful. If this was Dragons Den there would be a chorus of "I'm Out".

Nice to see another supporter.
However I posted the above a while ago, any thoughts from supporters of this initiative on how on earth the business case stacks up.

Passionate Pontypridd supporters with their heads screwed on are asking the same question, but nobody is answering. I support this initiative, but I can't see it happening unless there is a miracle of sorts.

Offload, Dave

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I can understand the passion, and the merit of such a plan, but in reality passion won't keep the same few thousand people paying, paying and paying, then making sure they buy too!

It seems to me like they just want this off the ground, and then fingers crossed for a saviour to keep it up and running!

Anyone know what VR is going to achieve by having Michael Owen on board?

This in the Western Fail today -



THE backers of a proposed new professional rugby region for the Valleys will meet with the Welsh Rugby Union next month to outline revised proposals.

Valleys Rugby, whose advisory board includes Shadow Secretary of State for Wales Owen Smith, finance director of Flexicare Medical Gareth Davies, corporate lawyer Nigel Greenaway and former Welsh rugby captain Michael Owen, is aiming to become a region for the 2013-14 season. This would coincide with new contracts with the WRU for the running of professional regions in Wales.

The team and playing side of the proposed Valleys region, which would be principally- based at Pontypridd’s Sardis Road, would be operated through a subsidiary of Valleys Rugby Community Benefit Society – a type of industrial provident society which would provide for community ownership in what is being described as the “people’s region”.

It is seeking a minimum investment of £1.2m a year from the WRU, which currently provides in total £15m per season shared by the four existing professional regions in Wales.

The latest meeting, on September 7, will see Valleys Rugby outline plans to WRU chief executive Roger Lewis and his senior management team.

Mr Greenaway said: “We have now revised and restructured our business plan and look forward to meeting with the WRU to drive forward with our ambitions.”

Mr Owen, who played for Pontypridd, said: “The future of rugby in Wales cannot be dictated by financial considerations alone. Rugby is a part of our heritage and our communities and everyone involved in the game must recognise that and work to sustain the game within those traditional communities.

“The success and support of Pontypridd RFC and the public interest in the concept of Valleys Rugby are both evidence of the demand that is out there for a return of top flight rugby to the Valleys heartlands.

“The WRU must recognise that too, and deliver a blueprint for change that would revitalise the game in this traditional community.”

However, even if the WRU approved funding – having deemed it to be a sustainable venture – it would need the agreement of the unions of Ireland, Scotland and Italy, for any Valleys side to be admitted to the RaboDirect PRO 12 League.

It would also need buy-in from the existing four Welsh regions, particularly if their current funding from the WRU was reduced to accommodate a Valleys region.

Valleys Rugby is targeting a subscription fan base of 10,000 contributing £100 each, which would provide further revenues of £1m a year. It says the projection is “illustrative”.

Valleys Rugby is seeking to secure a minimum of £300,000 in sponsorship a year and believes the business community would be willing to support it.

It has secured an indication of support in sponsorship of £250,000 over a three-year period from Heads of the Valleys Developments.

While it would need approval and financial backing from the WRU to turn intentions of support into firm financial commitments, Valleys Rugby said it has also received letters of support from a number of other businesses including Educ8 Training, Edwards Coaches, Yolk Recruitment and Natural Power Wales.

It said it has also received offers of sponsorship and support to the value of £60,000 from two other businesses, which at this stage have asked not be named publicly.

The four existing professional regions in Wales will from this coming season introduce player salary caps of £3.5m.

Valleys Rugby has outlined a much lower salary budget of £1.2m, with a full time playing squad of 32, with an additional six senior academy players.

It has modelled a number of salary permutations, where six players would be paid up to £70,000, with the lowest bracket of £18,000 for 12 players.

With such a low salary base there are concerns as to whether Valleys Rugby would be able to attract players of the required standard.

Valleys Rugby said it would appoint coaches in conjunction with the WRU and in the interim would be assisted by former Pontypridd coach Lyn Howells operating in the role of interim director of rugby.

In its document Valleys Rugby said the region would request no more than £1.5m from the WRU in any one year.

Valleys Rugby is also proposing to operate two playing academies, based in South and North Wales.

Its document adds: “The North Wales academy would ultimately spin-out into the full North Wales region when this entity is established.

“To make the North Wales academy a viable option commercially, the full £1.5m of WRU funding requested would need to be made available to Valleys Rugby.”

A spokesman for the WRU said: “We looking forward to meeting with Mr Smith and his colleagues in September to hear details of any proposals they want to put.

“The WRU has always said it is happy to listen and of course we will challenge and test any proposals outlined.”

The business plan could also be assessed by professional advisory firm PwC , which is currently conducting an ongoing review into the financial viability of the professional game in Wales on behalf of the WRU.


Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business-in-wales/business-news/2012/08/08/backers-of-proposed-rugby-region-for-the-valleys-to-put-plans-to-wru-91466-31572601/#ixzz232uPs9PM



The article seems to underline some of the major challenges presented to VR, namely committing enough fans (a 100 annually investing £100) to invest, and then buy season tickets on top of that, getting enough sponsors (although if the Heads of the Valleys interest is true it shouldn't be too hard to get £300k a year), but then to convince the WRU that they are viable, and then to get the buy in of the other regions, the other Unions and the Pro12 league, and then to restructure the league season to accomodate them.

After all this they then merely need to put together a team which is halfway competitive with a fraction of the budget of any other team (finding decent props may be hard on a max of £70k wages).

With these figures however they may struggle to be half as good as Aironi, and if they are getting hammered away every game and hammered home every third (or even 2nd) game then it'll be a struggle to convince a 100 people to invest £260+ a season, and attract a few thousand fans to attend regularly.

No mention of them linking up with 1404 RGC though which was strange, almost as if they wanted to set up a seperate NW academy.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:This in the Western Fail today -

'Mr Owen, who played for Pontypridd, said: “The future of rugby in Wales cannot be dictated by financial considerations alone. Rugby is a part of our heritage and our communities and everyone involved in the game must recognise that and work to sustain the game within those traditional communities.

“The success and support of Pontypridd RFC and the public interest in the concept of Valleys Rugby are both evidence of the demand that is out there for a return of top flight rugby to the Valleys heartlands.

“The WRU must recognise that too, and deliver a blueprint for change that would revitalise the game in this traditional community.”'

That's funny, he said exactly the same on Friday 29th June (see an earlier post).

Is that going to be his answer to every question he's asked?

In the real world Mr Owen rugby IS dictated by financial considerations...

Seems like alot of the problems still aren't sorted. They also seem to be telling the WRU to shelve North Wales.

Also Owens mentions Ponty RFC but none of the other clubs.

As an outsider I don't know the most about the prem but how would the best 15 from there do as a team. Are we talking Zebre/Aroini or would they also pick up 10 points a season from them.

The plans are a bit of a joke. the bottom line is a lot of the hard core Ponty support wont support the Valleys because the region is not going to be called Pontypridd.

The also talk about going to places like Bridgend but with any kind of research they'd know you see more bloody Ospreys shirts in the Borough on Bridgend than in Swansea itself. I can leave my house for a 2 minute drive from Kenfig Hill to Pyle swimming pool and would on average see 1-3 Ospreys jerseys on that drive in the early evening on children. Then a side with no star players, little funding, and a team likely to be smashed every week thinks they can waltz into the borough and everyone will buy into them?

The only way this can work is if a benefactor comes in willing to pour money into the idea and for all their chest thumping that simply hasn't materialised.

The bit i like is 'to make the north wales academy viable the full 1.5million of welsh rugby funding would need to be made available to valleys rugby'. What a load of rubbish. From what i understand there is already a north wales academy and their teams play in the inter regional age grade competitions. If there is to be a fifth region then it has to be based in north wales.

Shifty wrote:The bottom line is a lot of the hard core Ponty support wont support the Valleys because the region is not going to be called Pontypridd.

Just how far does their stubbornness go? Even if they had a region called Pontypridd, would they refuse to support it unless they were guaranteed to play all their games at home? Would they spit the dummy if teams sent full-strength sides to the 'House of Pain'?

I'm glad we're starting to see that the poor disenfranchised Ponty fans are just as selfish as the 'Cardiff' fans they berate so much.

So Wales struggle to support 4 regions and the fans want 6 created.

Personally I feel the regions do require a rejig, but still only have 4,

North need a team and if Wales is to be proper regional then this is a must.
mean that one of Scarlets and Ospreys or Cardiff and Dragons will have to combine, and add the Valleys to a truely regional team.

A team based on an old Club sharing there history etc will always struggle to be truely regional.

Personally I wouldn't even have the clubs involved, they would have to accept their place as feeder clubs to the region,

I'd go with Scarlets and Ospreys combine.

Warriors reset up with Dragons

North team and a Cardiff team, (not owned by Cardiff RFC)

On to this Valleys Team,

By the sound of it, with the budget etc etc, they are going to be worse than Aironi were, regular hammerings, and Zebre will even be sending over a second team, and expecting wins.

Would valley or Ponty fans really want to watch a team get regular beatings, and visting teams never bring any big name players, and hand out an extra £100 a season on top of tickets for the privelege??

Do the SRU, IRFU and FIR want an extra fixture for a development team, when the country already has 4 teams? and could do increasing them?

This is doomed to failure (as much as I think the valleys deserve a team, but being mildly linked to Cardiff)

This isn't the way to do it, a realistic option is to try and Merge with the Dragons, home games shared, relaunched under a new name and kit.

Kingshu - Not being disrespectful but I am from the far west of Wales, and have a 120 mile round trip to watch my local region. I can nto see why we need to ditcht eh regions we go, instead of getting people (with far closer and easier journeys than I have to make) to attend their local region.

But you are fairly unique,

How can the regions get people closer to attend?

The only way I can think is to have truely regional teams, not formed and owned by Clubs.

Either every Club in said region should have a say in its running or none, not just leaving the big club/clubs in the region controlling everything.
You'll always struggle to attract as many people as needed, when the regional side is controlled by a rival club.

This is what the WRU need to address, maybe testing it first by buying the other 50% share off Newport would give them a team to control.

Transfer the running of the regionnal team and all regional rugby, League, funding, etc etc to a board formed from representives of the clubs in the region, this borad answers directly to the WRU.

IE, if Crosskeys wanted a loan for a club house they would apply to Dragons rugby for assistance, the board would have a budget set aside for investment in local rugby as well as the regional side.

3 regions in the south (east, south and west) plus stop messing around in the north and create a proper development team there - perfect solution.

A minority will grumble if the teams aren't so rigidly linked to specific towns, but if no geographic area feels unrepresented then crowds are bound to increase - so the WRU should just impose it, resolving the mess once and for all.

So Scarlets change their name to something that isn't so obviously the old Llanelli nickname, and represent the West. Ospreys are the south, and then you have some sort of 'Blue Dragon' combo that can play in Cardiff and Newport and represent the East. Valley folk can pick south or east, or even both, to go and watch.

Kingshu - the funny think is there are probably a good 500+ that do trips like that to PYS. We area a very rural region, and as such we need do seem to have some rather awkward journeys to get to the ground. However like I said there are a fair amoutn of us that do travel a fair distance for each match. The thing is those who do have the awkward trips tend not to make as much noise as those who were used to having everything on their doorstep (well 5 mile radius) and are not happy about having to travel 25 mile to see matches (p.s. distances are just picked off the top of my head).

Casartelli - In theory an East (Gwent), West (Dyfyd) and South (Glamorgan) setup would be nice, with a North developement side. However the issue is that the regions would need to be based somewhere, and financially the best place to put them is where the bulk of the money and population is in the region, and then unfortunately those who are disgruntled (and tend to have louder voices than those who are content) would kick up that the 'regions' are only superclubs based in towns/cities.

Taking the west as an example - most games would obviously need to be played in Parcyscarlets as that's the biggest ground, but I think a few games per season out in far flung areas, and making the whole thing a bit more 'west wales' and a bit less 'Llanelli/Scarlets' would be positive for the area and for Welsh rugby as a whole.

Same with Ospreys, who could easily fit an average home gate into the grounds of Bridgend, Pontypridd, Merthyr, Bonymaen etc. In fairness, at least the Ospreys do take an occasional pre-season or LV game out 'on the road' but they could do a lot more and be embraced as a team of the 'south'.

The alternative is to spend the next ten years doing what we've been doing for the last ten - and have three irrelevant teams and one underperformer (at HC level at least) while we tweak and tinker around the edges.

Casartelli - the problem is (especial for the Scarlets and Dragons) there are not realistically any stadia up to the task at hand around the regions. The Ospreys are also going to struggle to move their games around the region now, as every season ticket shifted (or given away or sold, or whatever) needs to be certain of a seat at every home game, and now they have supposedly got 9,000 season ticket holders do any of hteir regional stadiums hold that capacity, whilst being able to get walk-up and away supporters in too.

So if all it takes is to farm games out into the region then how come we never won anything when every villagist could go and watch his club in the top flight? No it was much much worse as were the crowds pre regions. So much so that I doubt there are even that many club grounds that can accomodate a regional match if all the season ticket holders decide to turn up. Stop peddling fantasy it is beyond boring.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Casartelli - the problem is (especial for the Scarlets and Dragons) there are not realistically any stadia up to the task at hand around the regions. The Ospreys are also going to struggle to move their games around the region now, as every season ticket shifted (or given away or sold, or whatever) needs to be certain of a seat at every home game, and now they have supposedly got 9,000 season ticket holders do any of hteir regional stadiums hold that capacity, whilst being able to get walk-up and away supporters in too.

I disagree with the 'not enough stadia/stadiums' excuse. Temporary stands cost a fraction of what, for example, a Price Waterhouse report would cost and the WRU could invest in one and loan it out for free to regions throughout the season. Pre-season/cup/Italian opposition games could easily be accommodated in Carmarthen, Whitland, Narberth, Haverfordwest etc. But of course, that would make the whole concept slightly less 'Llanelli'. Leaving everything as it is remains an option, albeit a slightly depressing one.

Stone Motif wrote:So if all it takes is to farm games out into the region then how come we never won anything when every villagist could go and watch his club in the top flight? No it was much much worse as were the crowds pre regions. So much so that I doubt there are even that many club grounds that can accomodate a regional match if all the season ticket holders decide to turn up. Stop peddling fantasy it is beyond boring.

Looks like that is the case for the Ospreys this season, and the Scarlets (but only because the stadia in Dyfyd don't exist).

Casartelli wrote:Leaving everything as it is remains an option, albeit a slightly depressing one.

I don't know why it needs to be depressing - nor why you seem to think it's doomed to failure. The Sharks play our of Durban because that's the biggest city in Natal; the Hurricanes play out of Wellington, the Waratahs out of Sydney and so on. Why should our regions be any different?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Leaving everything as it is remains an option, albeit a slightly depressing one.

I don't know why it needs to be depressing - nor why you seem to think it's doomed to failure. The Sharks play our of Durban because that's the biggest city in Natal; the Hurricanes play out of Wellington, the Waratahs out of Sydney and so on. Why should our regions be any different?

If the Welsh regions had been anything less than mediocre (occasional exception being the Ospreys) over the last ten years then I'd agree, let them play wherever they want. Base all four in Cardiff, Swansea, Burry Port or Maesteg for all I care as long as they are achieving some degree of success.

Your SH examples are a little selective - the Crusaders and the Blues, for example, take games out of the main town/city to 'spread the word'.

Temporary stands aren't the be all and end all you also need to enclose the ground and ensure proper health and safety something which is patently beyond many even of the current premiership clubs hence one of the reasons the league is being reduced. Dragons playing at Pooler is often mooted by naysayers who can't see wood for trees for example but is not even good enough for semi pro rugby. Yet we are supposed to have some of the best players in Europe hoofing it round up there in the dog Poopie while the world and his wife watch for free on the hill.

Stone Motif wrote:Temporary stands aren't the be all and end all you also need to enclose the ground and ensure proper health and safety something which is patently beyond many even of the current premiership clubs hence one of the reasons the league is being reduced. Dragons playing at Pooler is often mooted by naysayers who can't see wood for trees for example but is not even good enough for semi pro rugby. Yet we are supposed to have some of the best players in Europe hoofing it round up there in the dog Poopie while the world and his wife watch for free on the hill.

Who has suggested playing a game involving any of the best players in Europe in Pontypool!!!? They should be shot, whoever they are.

Have any French or Irish teams actually proposed this???

Casartelli wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Leaving everything as it is remains an option, albeit a slightly depressing one.

I don't know why it needs to be depressing - nor why you seem to think it's doomed to failure. The Sharks play our of Durban because that's the biggest city in Natal; the Hurricanes play out of Wellington, the Waratahs out of Sydney and so on. Why should our regions be any different?

If the Welsh regions had been anything less than mediocre (occasional exception being the Ospreys) over the last ten years then I'd agree, let them play wherever they want. Base all four in Cardiff, Swansea, Burry Port or Maesteg for all I care as long as they are achieving some degree of success.

Your SH examples are a little selective - the Crusaders and the Blues, for example, take games out of the main town/city to 'spread the word'.

I wasn't claiming to be comprehensive, just pointing out the logic of sides playing out of the best stadia.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Leaving everything as it is remains an option, albeit a slightly depressing one.

I don't know why it needs to be depressing - nor why you seem to think it's doomed to failure. The Sharks play our of Durban because that's the biggest city in Natal; the Hurricanes play out of Wellington, the Waratahs out of Sydney and so on. Why should our regions be any different?

If the Welsh regions had been anything less than mediocre (occasional exception being the Ospreys) over the last ten years then I'd agree, let them play wherever they want. Base all four in Cardiff, Swansea, Burry Port or Maesteg for all I care as long as they are achieving some degree of success.

Your SH examples are a little selective - the Crusaders and the Blues, for example, take games out of the main town/city to 'spread the word'.

I wasn't claiming to be comprehensive, just pointing out the logic of sides playing out of the best stadia.

I agree - for the majority of games. But you don't see any positives in taking a few pre-season or cup or low attendance league games elsewhere? These are supposed to be regions, after all.