Sean Foley; Not so Mad After All?

I remain sceptical about full on stack and tilt, which none of Foley’s tour pro’s use, but the elements of it used in the likes of Rose, Mahan and woods swings is currently producing some of the best ball striking on tour. In recent weeks; Rose has won a WGC, tiger the Bay Hill and Mahan the Shell Houston Open and the WGC matchplay. After last years PGA championship where Tiger missed the cut many people, including myself, were offering the opinion that Foley was mad and Tiger even more so for believing in him.

Why we asked, was tiger resorting to the sort of coaching you see offered up during commercial breaks where ten DVD’s for only $100 will transform you into a scratch player using some mythical new technique? It turns out Tiger knows a thing or two about the golf swing and may have been better placed to judge the merits of Foley’s teachings than those of us not familiar with what it takes to win 14 majors. I also can’t help but notice Sean O’Hair may also have been a little hasty in abandoning the house of Foley given his fall from form since leaving.

As well as the recent wins we also have to remember that Justin Rose won the Deutsche bank play off event last season and the memorial and AT&T in 2010 (all under Foley). So although not proven long term success for all his pupils it currently looks like they are all working on the right things. The most obvious improvement being that tiger can now hit a fairway or two during a round.

The real test of Foley as a teacher may be whether a damaged Tiger can win another major under his guidance. All of tigers other coaches had a Tiger that you could just release with minor tweaks and it would win a major. For Foley he actually had to work with a Tiger Woods facing limitations which Tiger probably didn’t even know existed while playing golf.

If Tiger wins a major under Foley it is pretty clear that more than ever it may be down to his swing coach, which will no doubt feel very sweet for Foley given tigers woe’s were put down to his swing coach only a few months ago. As I mentioned in last weeks Ernie thread it seems players need to evolve over their career to keep winning majors but Foley has had the confidence to not just evolve tigers swing but transform it.

I suspect last year there would have been some whispering mockery from other parts of the range as Tiger hit balls with Foley, not now. All those guys struggling out there will be scrambling to find Foleys number as he becomes the hottest property in golf teaching.

So, I was very wrong about Foley, and I hope some of the others who knocked him on here will join me in admitting we didn’t have a clue what we were talking about.

Its interesting that you dont really here the phrase stack and tilt mentioned much these days at all, certainly not in realtion to Foleys pupils.

Far too much is made of coaches, these players are all incredibly talented, and more often need nothing more than a bit of a nudge and confidence boost to get them back on track.

If cocknose wins his fifteenth major I doubt foley can take too much credit. It's not as if he didn't have the talent to win before.

From what little I've seen (Golf World / Golf Digest articles mostly I suppose), Foley is a bit of a maverick in that his advice appears unconventional, at least to this untalented hacker. This is bound to attract criticism in the first place. Losing Sean O'Hair (in terms of form and then the student himself) no doubt added fuel to the flames. Conversely, Hunter "Mayhem" and Justin "Rosey" have two of the best-looking swings around IMHO, and obviously both have had some success in the last few years - suggesting function as well as form.

Moving onto TW. I think (and thought at the time) that it was only fair to give Tiger the 12-18m he said the swing changes would be expected to take before judging too harshly - partly based on my own continuing and frustrating experiences of correcting fundamental flaws in technique. For my money, he has now proved that he can hit good shots over the course of a week. The big question for me now is whether he can sustain it over months and years, or whether he will revert to Big Miss-ing.

Mac - Very good post. And you're absolutely right about it not being a full on stack-and-tilt, but it does keep much of your weight left and he's also big on the "ground effects" ... feel the leverage and then use it. I wish O'Hair would go back!

Certainly coach of the year so far!!

good read MC.

In regards to stack and tilt- if i am playing a medal or match of something and i start hitting the odd erannt drive and need to chill out- i 'stack and tilt'.

I think its a brilliant feeling to have when under pressure- just concentrate on getting through the ball with weight transfer

For any guys adopting this method.

I block a lot of shots straight right, ball position too far back in stance?

I've never thought Foley was given anything like enough time by the so-called knowledgeable. The golf media were pathetic and most of the amateur experts were even worse.

Even for Woods, it was going to take some time to erase his previous habitual moves and ingrain new ones. He's showing signs of being confident under pressure and believing in his swing.

Diggers wrote:Its interesting that you dont really here the phrase stack and tilt mentioned much these days at all, certainly not in realtion to Foleys pupils.

Foley learnt a lot of his material from Bennett and Plummer.

Here's a question: how many on here have actually read Bennett and Plummer's book??? One of the good things about their method is you can take the bits you want and leave the rest if you want. All it is is a collection of the stuff all the best ball strikers have ever done. The reason it gets panned? It was given a name.

Navy - Have read the book and took 3 lessons from Plummer (he was teaching pro at the time at our club). You are 100% correct ... it's not an "all in" methodology. It helped me strike the ball a lot more consistently simply by keeping my weight more stable on the left side and promoted an inside/out club path.

Shotrock/Navy - Trialling this just now and block a lot of shots straight right, any thoughts?

Spaceman - I would suggest ball position first. Play it a bit further forward and see what happens.