Munster v Ulster

First topic message reminder :

Well what a difference a few days make. Leinster stroll past Munster in Thomond, Ulster cruise past Airioni and now definitely fancy their chances on Sunday and rightly so.

My Munster team if players available would be

1. Wian Du Preez
2. Mike Sheery
3. BJ
4. DOC1
5. POC
6. DR
7. POM
8. Coughlan
9. Murray
10. ROG
11. ZEBO
12. Maifi
13. Earls
14. Hurley
15. Jones

Pretty much picks itself bar hooker and back row. Line out was just so bad that Varley has to pay the price. May not have been all his fault but Sherry has been knocking on the door and deserves a shot at this level.

DOC2 had a solid game but I think the partnership of POC and DOC should stand us well. DR to the back row.

Rodders Ulster team

15 Terblanche
14 Trimble
13 Cave
12 Wallace
11 Gilroy
10 IHumph
9 Pienaar
8 Wannenburg
6 Diack
7 Henry
5 Touhy
4 Muller
3 Afoa
2 Best
1 Court

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:As Geoff has probably pointed out about 15 times now, Marshall has had more game time than any other 9 in Ireland.

Its the quality, not the quantity. Starting against Aironi away isn't the same as starting against France in Paris.

Try telling that to Danny Barnes

Sin é wrote:
O'Connell rates Fabian Pelous as the best lock he ever played against.

Sin you really brighten up my day!

Nobody at Ulster is calling for Marshall for Ireland, not that I have seen...

Why an Ulster win would be good for Irish rugby.
By Don Alfonso (aged 35 and ¾)

What would an Ulster win achieve, apart from upsetting Hugh Farrelly (a laudable aim in itself) and causing a couple of posters on Munsterfans.com to spontaneously combust? What would the benefits be for Irish rugby?

1) New supporters. A huge, rip-roaring, headline-grabbing win over Munster would capture some imaginations, especially up here. It would be a Big Deal, and would probably make non-fans more curious about the sport. People are attracted to new sports and teams by increased success (see Connacht for an indication), and that kind of high-profile victory would do us no end of good. Munster and, over the last couple of years, Leinster, have had their “bandwagon” – fans who have only started following the team since they started becoming a real force. Let’s clasp the potential Ulster Bandwagon to our bosom. The hard-earned cash they will fork over is no different to the money of those of us who have followed the team through the lean times. And it will evolve into interest in the national team. Do Munster and Leinster have untapped markets the way Ulster and Connacht do? Would another HEC QF win by Munster significantly raise the sport’s profile? I’d say not.

2) (Potential) Ireland players playing at a higher level. None of the current Ulster team have played in an HEC semi-final. Let them experience that pressure. Let them learn from being there. POC ain’t gonna learn a great deal from another HEC SF. Nor will ROG. Nor DOC. But it will be another invaluable experience for current Ireland internationals such as Best, Ferris and Trimble. Because these guys will be expected to shoulder the mantle of leadership and responsibility in other games, including those for Ireland. And maybe other players can become Ireland options if they deliver. What better way to see Tuohy, Gilroy and Henry improve? The point about potential Ireland players is true for some Munster players as well, but there are more "unkowns" in the Ulster team, I feel. Munster are constantly credited with knowing how to do enough to win a game - how to win in high-pressure situations and show some steel. It can only benefit Irish rugby if Ulster players learn that skill, that doggedness, too.

3) Three power bases are better than two. Ulster have tried to entice back-rowers and wings from the southern teams in the last couple of seasons. And none came. Part of that is the tax break, which we can do nothing about. But wouldn’t it be more enticing for a promising Leinster back-rower, waiting at the end of an almighty queue of talent, to move to Ulster if he thought he might be playing in the business end of the HEC rather than bench-warming at the Leinster team? And wouldn’t it be better for Ireland for that young back-rower to be getting higher-level gametime for a couple of years, if nothing else? He’s certainly not going to move if he thinks Ulster are unlikely to make it out of their HEC pool. But if they made the HEC semi in the last year... Ulster become another serious option for talented youngsters. Munster and Leinster already are. And they aren’t bench-warming, or lost to England.

4) Invaluable experience for Irish coaches. Same principal for the players, basically. McGahan gets to an HEC SF, and disappears off to Australia. I suppose Foley is left to keep that experience in the Irish set-up. McLaughlin, Bell, Doak – invaluable knowledge that remains within the Ulster and Irish system.

5) Forcing Deccie’s conservative hand. I don’t want to de-rail this debate – if you think Deccie is doing a bang-up job, just disregard this. And I’m not talking about Munster bias. I’m saying the less excuses we give him to pick DOC over Tuohy, or Jennings over Henry, the better, in my opinion. Ulster players won’t suddenly have become good enough to play for Ireland because they won an HEC QF. But it will shake up a stagnant team selection at the top level.


I honestly feel that an Ulster victory would be extremely important to Irish rugby.

clivemcl wrote:Nobody at Ulster is calling for Marshall for Ireland, not that I have seen...

I was referring to Farrelly.

Don Alfonso wrote:Why an Ulster win would be good for Irish rugby.
By Don Alfonso (aged 35 and ¾)

What would an Ulster win achieve, apart from upsetting Hugh Farrelly (a laudable aim in itself) and causing a couple of posters on Munsterfans.com to spontaneously combust? What would the benefits be for Irish rugby?

1) New supporters. A huge, rip-roaring, headline-grabbing win over Munster would capture some imaginations, especially up here. It would be a Big Deal, and would probably make non-fans more curious about the sport. People are attracted to new sports and teams by increased success (see Connacht for an indication), and that kind of high-profile victory would do us no end of good. Munster and, over the last couple of years, Leinster, have had their “bandwagon” – fans who have only started following the team since they started becoming a real force. Let’s clasp the potential Ulster Bandwagon to our bosom. The hard-earned cash they will fork over is no different to the money of those of us who have followed the team through the lean times. And it will evolve into interest in the national team. Do Munster and Leinster have untapped markets the way Ulster and Connacht do? Would another HEC QF win by Munster significantly raise the sport’s profile? I’d say not.

2) (Potential) Ireland players playing at a higher level. None of the current Ulster team have played in an HEC semi-final. Let them experience that pressure. Let them learn from being there. POC ain’t gonna learn a great deal from another HEC SF. Nor will ROG. Nor DOC. But it will be another invaluable experience for current Ireland internationals such as Best, Ferris and Trimble. Because these guys will be expected to shoulder the mantle of leadership and responsibility in other games, including those for Ireland. And maybe other players can become Ireland options if they deliver. What better way to see Tuohy, Gilroy and Henry improve? The point about potential Ireland players is true for some Munster players as well, but there are more "unkowns" in the Ulster team, I feel. Munster are constantly credited with knowing how to do enough to win a game - how to win in high-pressure situations and show some steel. It can only benefit Irish rugby if Ulster players learn that skill, that doggedness, too.

3) Three power bases are better than two. Ulster have tried to entice back-rowers and wings from the southern teams in the last couple of seasons. And none came. Part of that is the tax break, which we can do nothing about. But wouldn’t it be more enticing for a promising Leinster back-rower, waiting at the end of an almighty queue of talent, to move to Ulster if he thought he might be playing in the business end of the HEC rather than bench-warming at the Leinster team? And wouldn’t it be better for Ireland for that young back-rower to be getting higher-level gametime for a couple of years, if nothing else? He’s certainly not going to move if he thinks Ulster are unlikely to make it out of their HEC pool. But if they made the HEC semi in the last year... Ulster become another serious option for talented youngsters. Munster and Leinster already are. And they aren’t bench-warming, or lost to England.

4) Invaluable experience for Irish coaches. Same principal for the players, basically. McGahan gets to an HEC SF, and disappears off to Australia. I suppose Foley is left to keep that experience in the Irish set-up. McLaughlin, Bell, Doak – invaluable knowledge that remains within the Ulster and Irish system.

5) Forcing Deccie’s conservative hand. I don’t want to de-rail this debate – if you think Deccie is doing a bang-up job, just disregard this. And I’m not talking about Munster bias. I’m saying the less excuses we give him to pick DOC over Tuohy, or Jennings over Henry, the better, in my opinion. Ulster players won’t suddenly have become good enough to play for Ireland because they won an HEC QF. But it will shake up a stagnant team selection at the top level.


I honestly feel that an Ulster victory would be extremely important to Irish rugby.

Would you stop with logical arguments. You are really ruining the thread.

Don Alfonso wrote:Why an Ulster win would be good for Irish rugby.
By Don Alfonso (aged 35 and ¾)

What would an Ulster win achieve, apart from upsetting Hugh Farrelly (a laudable aim in itself) and causing a couple of posters on Munsterfans.com to spontaneously combust? What would the benefits be for Irish rugby?

1) New supporters. A huge, rip-roaring, headline-grabbing win over Munster would capture some imaginations, especially up here. It would be a Big Deal, and would probably make non-fans more curious about the sport. People are attracted to new sports and teams by increased success (see Connacht for an indication), and that kind of high-profile victory would do us no end of good. Munster and, over the last couple of years, Leinster, have had their “bandwagon” – fans who have only started following the team since they started becoming a real force. Let’s clasp the potential Ulster Bandwagon to our bosom. The hard-earned cash they will fork over is no different to the money of those of us who have followed the team through the lean times. And it will evolve into interest in the national team. Do Munster and Leinster have untapped markets the way Ulster and Connacht do? Would another HEC QF win by Munster significantly raise the sport’s profile? I’d say not.

2) (Potential) Ireland players playing at a higher level. None of the current Ulster team have played in an HEC semi-final. Let them experience that pressure. Let them learn from being there. POC ain’t gonna learn a great deal from another HEC SF. Nor will ROG. Nor DOC. But it will be another invaluable experience for current Ireland internationals such as Best, Ferris and Trimble. Because these guys will be expected to shoulder the mantle of leadership and responsibility in other games, including those for Ireland. And maybe other players can become Ireland options if they deliver. What better way to see Tuohy, Gilroy and Henry improve? The point about potential Ireland players is true for some Munster players as well, but there are more "unkowns" in the Ulster team, I feel. Munster are constantly credited with knowing how to do enough to win a game - how to win in high-pressure situations and show some steel. It can only benefit Irish rugby if Ulster players learn that skill, that doggedness, too.

3) Three power bases are better than two. Ulster have tried to entice back-rowers and wings from the southern teams in the last couple of seasons. And none came. Part of that is the tax break, which we can do nothing about. But wouldn’t it be more enticing for a promising Leinster back-rower, waiting at the end of an almighty queue of talent, to move to Ulster if he thought he might be playing in the business end of the HEC rather than bench-warming at the Leinster team? And wouldn’t it be better for Ireland for that young back-rower to be getting higher-level gametime for a couple of years, if nothing else? He’s certainly not going to move if he thinks Ulster are unlikely to make it out of their HEC pool. But if they made the HEC semi in the last year... Ulster become another serious option for talented youngsters. Munster and Leinster already are. And they aren’t bench-warming, or lost to England.

4) Invaluable experience for Irish coaches. Same principal for the players, basically. McGahan gets to an HEC SF, and disappears off to Australia. I suppose Foley is left to keep that experience in the Irish set-up. McLaughlin, Bell, Doak – invaluable knowledge that remains within the Ulster and Irish system.

5) Forcing Deccie’s conservative hand. I don’t want to de-rail this debate – if you think Deccie is doing a bang-up job, just disregard this. And I’m not talking about Munster bias. I’m saying the less excuses we give him to pick DOC over Tuohy, or Jennings over Henry, the better, in my opinion. Ulster players won’t suddenly have become good enough to play for Ireland because they won an HEC QF. But it will shake up a stagnant team selection at the top level.


I honestly feel that an Ulster victory would be extremely important to Irish rugby.

Think your right on everything there Don

Don Alfonso wrote:Why an Ulster win would be good for Irish rugby.
By Don Alfonso (aged 35 and ¾)

What would an Ulster win achieve, apart from upsetting Hugh Farrelly (a laudable aim in itself) and causing a couple of posters on Munsterfans.com to spontaneously combust? What would the benefits be for Irish rugby?

1) New supporters. A huge, rip-roaring, headline-grabbing win over Munster would capture some imaginations, especially up here. It would be a Big Deal, and would probably make non-fans more curious about the sport. People are attracted to new sports and teams by increased success (see Connacht for an indication), and that kind of high-profile victory would do us no end of good. Munster and, over the last couple of years, Leinster, have had their “bandwagon” – fans who have only started following the team since they started becoming a real force. Let’s clasp the potential Ulster Bandwagon to our bosom. The hard-earned cash they will fork over is no different to the money of those of us who have followed the team through the lean times. And it will evolve into interest in the national team. Do Munster and Leinster have untapped markets the way Ulster and Connacht do? Would another HEC QF win by Munster significantly raise the sport’s profile? I’d say not.

2) (Potential) Ireland players playing at a higher level. None of the current Ulster team have played in an HEC semi-final. Let them experience that pressure. Let them learn from being there. POC ain’t gonna learn a great deal from another HEC SF. Nor will ROG. Nor DOC. But it will be another invaluable experience for current Ireland internationals such as Best, Ferris and Trimble. Because these guys will be expected to shoulder the mantle of leadership and responsibility in other games, including those for Ireland. And maybe other players can become Ireland options if they deliver. What better way to see Tuohy, Gilroy and Henry improve? The point about potential Ireland players is true for some Munster players as well, but there are more "unkowns" in the Ulster team, I feel. Munster are constantly credited with knowing how to do enough to win a game - how to win in high-pressure situations and show some steel. It can only benefit Irish rugby if Ulster players learn that skill, that doggedness, too.

3) Three power bases are better than two. Ulster have tried to entice back-rowers and wings from the southern teams in the last couple of seasons. And none came. Part of that is the tax break, which we can do nothing about. But wouldn’t it be more enticing for a promising Leinster back-rower, waiting at the end of an almighty queue of talent, to move to Ulster if he thought he might be playing in the business end of the HEC rather than bench-warming at the Leinster team? And wouldn’t it be better for Ireland for that young back-rower to be getting higher-level gametime for a couple of years, if nothing else? He’s certainly not going to move if he thinks Ulster are unlikely to make it out of their HEC pool. But if they made the HEC semi in the last year... Ulster become another serious option for talented youngsters. Munster and Leinster already are. And they aren’t bench-warming, or lost to England.

4) Invaluable experience for Irish coaches. Same principal for the players, basically. McGahan gets to an HEC SF, and disappears off to Australia. I suppose Foley is left to keep that experience in the Irish set-up. McLaughlin, Bell, Doak – invaluable knowledge that remains within the Ulster and Irish system.

5) Forcing Deccie’s conservative hand. I don’t want to de-rail this debate – if you think Deccie is doing a bang-up job, just disregard this. And I’m not talking about Munster bias. I’m saying the less excuses we give him to pick DOC over Tuohy, or Jennings over Henry, the better, in my opinion. Ulster players won’t suddenly have become good enough to play for Ireland because they won an HEC QF. But it will shake up a stagnant team selection at the top level.


I honestly feel that an Ulster victory would be extremely important to Irish rugby.

Don..... you had me at hello....

I've noticed that Munster V Ulster is appearing on other other topics, just happens people are bring Welsh signings etc etc round to Munster V Ulster somehow, will we try and get everythread to be discussing Munster V Ulster, and when we've hi-jacked every rugby debate we can move on to the Boxing pages.

Ha ha - it's Like Ulster Squad Additions all over again!

Andy Lee would beat John Duddy. Isn't Duddy from Monaghan? It's Munster v Ulster so managed to turn it around!

Duddy's from derry, I know his bro.

He's retired anyways.

Andy Lee is a bum .

Is he retired? Didn't know that. Andy Lee would take him. Anyways Cork has their own foreign boxer. I suppose he is the Tom Court of Irish Boxing (in that he wasn't born in Ireland but qualifies on residency grounds)


Mike "El Rebellio" Perez!

Yeah retired... McCloskeys ours too .

What about that Belfast taxi driver fella, hes fighting Andy lee's pretend cousin Tyson Fury for the Irish heavyweight title.

Mike Perez, sounds like another one of Munsters foreign legion....

Tom Court qualifies through an Irish granny. Come on, Thomond. We spend enough time talking about him that we should all be intimately acquainted with his life story.

What odds on a McIlroy/ Ulster double??

Don Alfonso wrote:Tom Court qualifies through an Irish granny. Come on, Thomond. We spend enough time talking about him that we should all be intimately acquainted with his life story.

Isn't his grand dad from Limerick


Is there no end to what Munster Rugby have given to the world

What about Carl Frampton (Ulster) V Willie 'Big Bang' Casey (Munster).

that fight may happen soon enough

howed I also nearly forget
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/17157515

Ulster 3-11 1-15 Munster

Ulster retained the Interprovincial title, oh yeah.

Ulster Rugby are firing out a few facts on FB:

According to the Amlin Opta Index, Ulster's Chris Henry is ranked as the 4th most effective defensive player in Europe this season

According to the Amlin Opta Index, Johann Muller is the leading lineout exponent across the tournment this season with 37 lineouts for his own team as well as securing 3 steals from opposition throws. In second place is another ulsterman, Rory Best, who has made 74 successful throws so far in this European campaign, 9 more than any other player.

I have to say I've mixed feelings about Sundays game. I really don't want Munster to get knocked out but I want Ulster to win more than anything in the world.

It would mean so much to both sides to reach the SF and possibly final (or further).

Its a cruel twist of fate that one of us has to go out. Does anyone else feel this way?

Have a on me Munster fans .

I've no idea what your talking about Rodders. Death to Munster!!!!

only joking...

Sin é wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Tom Court qualifies through an Irish granny. Come on, Thomond. We spend enough time talking about him that we should all be intimately acquainted with his life story.

Isn't his grand dad from Limerick


Is there no end to what Munster Rugby have given to the world

Galway I think. But maybe they just live up there now. No I checked and you're right. He was from Limerick

But both of Dan Tuohys parents are from Munster.

For second or third generation I don't think you can say they are provinicial.

Irish men yes, but not Ulster, Munster, Leinster or Connacht men. Exile men returned.

That Boss for example he's Irish, but would you say he's an Ulsterman or Leinsterman? I could only put him down as a returned Irish man.

PS did you hear about the Irish boomerang, it never came back, just sang about how much it wanted to.

Paul O'Connell is actually adopted and is really an Ulsterman.

His auld boy was actually a fella from Antrim called MacCool(MacCumhaill).

Big chap he was.......

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Tom Court qualifies through an Irish granny. Come on, Thomond. We spend enough time talking about him that we should all be intimately acquainted with his life story.

Isn't his grand dad from Limerick


Is there no end to what Munster Rugby have given to the world

Galway I think. But maybe they just live up there now. No I checked and you're right. He was from Limerick

But both of Dan Tuohys parents are from Munster.

I think its quite interesting the number of exiles roots are in Limerick. My own theory is that rugby was a working class sport in Limerick and a lot of working class people would have emigrated to Aus and having being exposed to the game already, had no issues with it being a middle class sport there. (Different in NZ - everyone plays it there).

I wonder is Tom Court related to Frank McCourt (think Frank McCourt's father was from Belfast).

Limerick, Wales and New Zealand. The rest of the world are just a shower of posh boys.

Kingshu wrote:For second or third generation I don't think you can say they are provinicial.

Dont say that to Declan Fitzpatrick though - tell him he is not a Cavan man and I cannot be held responsible for the consequences

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I love how Marshall is suddenly good enough for Ireland when there's a Saffer ahead of him. I no more want to see his loopy pass and headless chicken impression in a green shirt than I do O'Learys. And I love the guy, a truly passionate Ulsterman. But the likes of him, Willie Faloon and Ian Whitten are miles off an Ireland place. And Farrelly knows it because if they were starting for Ulster he'd be writing the articles saying they aren't good enough for Ireland.

The funniest part of that article is where the caption says Keith Esrls didn;t have to compete with NIQ players for his spot in Munster. When he came through they had two NIQ centres and an NIQ wing.

Lots of people think that Marshall should get a chance with Ireland. He might get a chance with Ireland if he was given a chance with Ulster to start some big games like the one next Sunday.

A better example of what I mean might be Sexton at Leinster. We would never have known if he has got what it takes if Contepomi hadn't got injured.

OK if Munster start with IQ props Ulster will start with IQ half backs - deal ?

Muller has publically stated that POC, Bakkies Botha and Vickerman were the three best locks he played against.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Limerick, Wales and New Zealand. The rest of the world are just a shower of posh boys.

They are just as "posh" down in Limerick as in D4...they just like to ham up the "rugby is a peoples game" in Limerick...for the visitors like.

DOD wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Limerick, Wales and New Zealand. The rest of the world are just a shower of posh boys.

They are just as "posh" down in Limerick as in D4...they just like to ham up the "rugby is a peoples game" in Limerick...for the visitors like.

Yeh - ham people up with knives.

People in glasshouses Artful....

roddersm wrote:Yeah retired... McCloskeys ours too .

What about that Belfast taxi driver fella, hes fighting Andy lee's pretend cousin Tyson Fury for the Irish heavyweight title.

Mike Perez, sounds like another one of Munsters foreign legion....

I suppose everyone knows the Wannenberg's of Crossmaglen and the Afoa's of Gortakeegan

DOD wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Limerick, Wales and New Zealand. The rest of the world are just a shower of posh boys.

They are just as "posh" down in Limerick as in D4...they just like to ham up the "rugby is a peoples game" in Limerick...for the visitors like.

I always thought a posh Limerickman was a contradiction in terms, until I discovered Smirnoff. (Apart form Dessie O'Malley)

The only question remaining with the Munster squad is......

Will David Wallace, Mick O'Driscoll or Tommy O'Donnell not make it. Has to be one of them out.

Wian Du Preez
Damien Varley
BJ Botha
Donnacha O’Callaghan/Donnacha Ryan
Paul O’Connell
Donnacha Ryan
Peter O’Mahony/David Wallace/Tommy O’Donnell (With O'Mahoney to 6 & Ryan to 4)
James Coughlan

Conor Murray
Ronan O’Gara
Simon Zebo
Lifeimi Mafi
Keith Earls
Denis Hurley
Felix Jones

Mike Sherry
Marcus Horan
Stephen Archer
Mick O’Driscoll/Donnacha O’Callaghan
David Wallace/Tommy O’Donnell
Tomas O’Leary
Ian Keatley
Johne Murphy

That's how I read it.

DOD wrote:People in glasshouses Artful....

I was joking mate

Rumours abound that Sherry and O'Donnell will start (suggesting Ryan @ 4 and POM @ 6).

I'd prever Dave O'Callaghan to Tommy O'Donnell. O'Callaghan put in a good number of tackles at the weekend and gets about well, just put POM to 7.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

DOD wrote:People in glasshouses Artful....

I was joking mate

No worries....

Jennifer they all speak like Dessie O'Malley when noone else is there. They are like the French they really all speak English all the time but just put on those funny accents when "foreigners" are around.

DOC v2 is injured.

DOC2 is injured to my knowledge. Bruised patella.

Shoite, didn't know that. I would be leaning towards DOC at 4 and DR at 6. Gives you 4 very solid lineout options with POM there too.

MMC wrote:Rumours abound that Sherry and O'Donnell will start (suggesting Ryan @ 4 and POM @ 6).

WOW MMC thats seriously interesting - didnt see O'Donnell starting but delighted for him. Could be chance to make a name for himself

Strange one. Means either Wally will make the bench or they will have Ryan and Micko on it. (Or Doc and Micko)

Stu Barnes has backed Ulster to win, since Northampton destroyed the Munster pack and Ulster's is stronger. He might have forgotten the score in that game.

Spoiler:

I shouldn't worry Thomond from over here Irish rugby looks really confusing so you can't blame him

I guess it will be a question of whether Munster can pull out one of their street smart performances as in days of yore & if Ulster have really gelled as a team yet

You'd have to say Ulster have the classier players but it's whether they can hold it together

& having POC is a big bonus for Munster - for Ulster let's hope the ref is on his game

At full strength it would probably be Munster, we might have a slight edge but it really could go either way. Whoever wins, I will back them to the hilt agaisnt Toulouse/Edinburgh!

hmm Munster a bit like Man U - done it so open it seems to kick in automatically - big challenge for Ulster to pull it all together - but if they are going to ever do it this is the sort of occasion they need to step up to

Croyman wrote:
hmm Munster a bit like Man U - done it so open it seems to kick in automatically - big challenge for Ulster to pull it all together - but if they are going to ever do it this is the sort of occasion they need to step up to

Ever going to do it?

They did it in 1999 buddy.