Give Cena A Break!

by bretmeharty Tue 3 Apr - 21:59

First topic message reminder :

This was a comment but I have turned it into a thread because I want it to be known.

Im feeling really sorry for Cena at the min (and believe me thats hard for me to do considering he's worldwide famous and a very rich man), you could almost see the way he was on raw, you guys dont give a fu$k about what ive come out to say so whats the point. I think he handled the crowd very well on Raw and did a nice job of putting over the yes chant as well.

Some of you guys are complete hypocrites, in the time when you want everyone and everything to be "Real", we all knew and the crowd certainly knew Lesnar was coming back, and so in that case there was no need for Cena to "sell it".

Give the guy a break its just become a bandwagon now, I'm 90% certain Cena would of said to Vince or HHH or even Doc Hendrex how do you think/should react to Lesnar.

by bretmeharty Wed 4 Apr - 6:03

Celtic Warrior wrote:You're asking everyone to look at it objectively when you are not doing so yourself. You are justifying everything as "It's VKM/WWE's fault". That's not objectivity.

You are pretty much as bad as you are claiming everyone else is; the only difference being the target of your wrath.

My take on it?
Cena is a walloper. I respect all of the extra stuff he does for the company, all of the appearances etc. but at the end of the day he is shockingly unprofessional when it comes to his fellow wrestlers. I've said this on other threads but his constant no selling towards Rock in the last few weeks was terrible. Many have said that Rock was below par, but it will be nearly impossible to build up momentum against a man that is pulling faces and ignoring you when you try to cut a serious promo. It gets even more impossible when the only intensity from that man comes in the form of "This is what I need you to be....this is the rock I have to face" essentially rendering everything you've said pointless.

I have already agreed with all that and more, but if Vince (the Don, the big boss nothing goes with out his say so) hasn't asked him to change or won't let him change or however you look at it. If he is happy how is it Cena's fault?

by Celtic Warrior Wed 4 Apr - 6:07

Sorry but are you skipping my call for your objectivity?

VKM has to share the blame, but the fact people are bored of CENA'S gimmick is down to Cena's portrayal of that gimmick. He is the one that got in to that way in the first place.

No doubt VKM has protected his main star....of course he has...it makes business sense to do so. But for you to say it's all VKM's fault is arsegravy of the highest order.

You are doing what we are doing, but pointing it at a different target.

Having said VKM needs to share the blame, I will point out I blame Cena for the majority of it.

by Guest Wed 4 Apr - 6:13

Maybes Vince was at a Twitter meeting and missed the meeting about Cena's reaction? Whistle

by bretmeharty Wed 4 Apr - 6:14

I bet Cena wants to, do you you really think he is happy getting that kind of treatment day in day out, he says he loves the way he is and will never change because he has to its his job.

I can imagine the conversation
Cena "do you think its worth me trying this"
Vince "nah your fine as you are, forget what people say to you and if any of the boys says anything to you ill sort them out, your making money your making the company a ton of money ha ho ha ho"

by We Want Edge Wed 4 Apr - 6:48

An actor can have the best script (storyline / promo) and the best director (VKM) but that won't make an instant success. Cena can be told to do certain expressions and reactions but Cena doesn't seem to be able to exaggerate these enough or isn't (at this point of his career) being told exactly what to do.
VKM definitely knows how to get a crowd to react, see any of his work against Austin, and if he is telling Cena to no-sell every thing everything anyone says or does then he has gone mad.

by longrangeeffort Wed 4 Apr - 17:37

I havent seen the clip of Lesnars return yet (will look tonight) so i cant comment there. But, quite a few wrestlers have done things in the ring against VKM's wishes/without him knowing beforehand. Chair shots to the head, blood, flying off the top of the Cell, sandbagging etc. All have lead to a stern ticking off and/or fine.

When it comes down to it, Vince cant control what the guys do in the ring. He can lay down all the rules but sometimes the wrestlers will defy him for whatever reason.

Like i said, I havent seen the clip yet but IF Cena no-sold a big name like Lesnar returning then he's either a) a douche or b) heading towards that heel turn as the fans will have damn sure picked up on it.

Hate to think what Cena's reaction would be if Austin came out...that sound of the glass smashing always provokes shock in the ring!

by MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch Wed 4 Apr - 18:08

I'm with you Bret.

by liverbnz Wed 4 Apr - 19:43

Why didn't he try and get out of the F5? Lesnar had him on his shoulders for a good 5 seconds and he just lay there like a dead fish.

by MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch Wed 4 Apr - 19:48

Cana's like one of them animals that if you turn them upside down really quick, they get knocked out. But I can't remember what animal that is, which renders this attempt at a witty aside slightly incoherent.

by **Crimey** Wed 4 Apr - 19:54

liverbnz wrote:Why didn't he try and get out of the F5? Lesnar had him on his shoulders for a good 5 seconds and he just lay there like a dead fish.

I thought the same.

Demon, I think it's a shark.

by MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch Wed 4 Apr - 19:55

Is it? Jesus Chris - who's messing around quickly turning sharks upside down to see if that's true? Mentallers.

by sodhat Wed 4 Apr - 19:55

liverbnz wrote:Why didn't he try and get out of the F5? Lesnar had him on his shoulders for a good 5 seconds and he just lay there like a dead fish.

It was strange and it was the same when Punk gave Laurinaitis the GTS - but in reality they need to be still so the move isn't botched so it's down to the guy giving the move to do it quickly and explosively. Brock stood there and grimmaced at the camera rather than delivering the move so all Cena could do was wait, which made it look slightly ridiculous. That can't be blamed on Cena though.

by Shot 21 LCFC Wed 4 Apr - 20:45

And to be fair to Cena, it would have looked a bit stupid if he was acting totally shocked when Lesnar came out (still cant believe he is back) being as the crowd were chanting throughout his promo and he even acknowledged it.

His reaction was like "ahh so thats why people are chanting - Lesnar really is here. Not sure why he is interrupting me though. Oh look he wants to shake my hand how nice. Good to see he resp... oh crapp here comes an F5 - weeeee!"

His reaction was spot on for me - sorry.

by sodhat Wed 4 Apr - 20:48

Shot 21 LCFC wrote:And to be fair to Cena, it would have looked a bit stupid if he was acting totally shocked when Lesnar came out (still cant believe he is back) being as the crowd were chanting throughout his promo and he even acknowledged it.

His reaction was like "ahh so thats why people are chanting - Lesnar really is here. Not sure why he is interrupting me though. Oh look he wants to shake my hand how nice. Good to see he resp... oh crapp here comes an F5 - weeeee!"

His reaction was spot on for me - sorry.

I agree with that Shot. The fact the crowd were chanting very loudly about Brock kind of made it impossible for Cena to act surprised, no one would have bought that he didn't know Brock was there.

It may seem a little bit of an escape clause, but it would be a fairer test if the crowd had known nothing. If he had then no-sold I would join the griping.

by TwisT Wed 4 Apr - 20:58

But in storyline purposes Cena didn't know. The video Gav posted highlighted the difference perfectly. The Rock joked about Goldberg's appearing, even though the crowd were chanting. He was in character.

Cena (bearing in mind, storyline wise, he didn't know Brock would be there), should have still acted surprised when he did.

Example, if Cena was in a pantomime and the kids yelled "He's behind you!", he would have turned round and gone "oh yeah, so he is."

What's more, regardless of a surprised look on his face, he shouldn't have looked like he didn't give a poop.

by Beer Wed 4 Apr - 20:59

sodhat wrote:
Shot 21 LCFC wrote:And to be fair to Cena, it would have looked a bit stupid if he was acting totally shocked when Lesnar came out (still cant believe he is back) being as the crowd were chanting throughout his promo and he even acknowledged it.

His reaction was like "ahh so thats why people are chanting - Lesnar really is here. Not sure why he is interrupting me though. Oh look he wants to shake my hand how nice. Good to see he resp... oh crapp here comes an F5 - weeeee!"

His reaction was spot on for me - sorry.

I agree with that Shot. The fact the crowd were chanting very loudly about Brock kind of made it impossible for Cena to act surprised, no one would have bought that he didn't know Brock was there.

It may seem a little bit of an escape clause, but it would be a fairer test if the crowd had known nothing. If he had then no-sold I would join the griping.

Instead of bleeting on about wanting to congratulate The Rock, he could've said 'Hey, chant all you want, he's not coming, he took his ball and went to UFC, remember?'. Would've been alot easier to sell Lesnar's appearance then, drawn more heat and got Lesnar well over.

I will give Cena credit, if it's true that Brock arrived 30 seconds before he walked out that can't have been easy for Cena trying to hold a crowd that hates him while he's waiting for Brock to F5 his ass.

Interesting side point. It may or may not be well known but during his run, Lesnar actually detested John Cena and made it very clear to Vince McMahon to the point where both men sandbagged each other in their title match at Backlash in 2004.

by sodhat Wed 4 Apr - 21:02

I get the feeling his expression was something along the lines of 'here we go again' because he's already had to deal with The Rock. I don't know how much that reflects his real life feelings, but in terms of character it doesn't fit to me to see Cena scared or surprised about anybody coming for him.

by sodhat Wed 4 Apr - 21:03

King Beer wrote:
Interesting side point. It may or may not be well known but during his run, Lesnar actually detested John Cena and made it very clear to Vince McMahon to the point where both men sandbagged each other in their title match at Backlash in 2004.

I wondered about legitimate dislike of each other, because it's certainly something I could imagine and it doesn't surprise me if that is true!

by TwisT Wed 4 Apr - 21:08

sodhat wrote:I get the feeling his expression was something along the lines of 'here we go again' because he's already had to deal with The Rock. I don't know how much that reflects his real life feelings, but in terms of character it doesn't fit to me to see Cena scared or surprised about anybody coming for him.

Right so if Hogan, Flair, King Kong Bundy, appears next week, he would not be surprised.

by sodhat Wed 4 Apr - 21:13

TwisT wrote:
sodhat wrote:I get the feeling his expression was something along the lines of 'here we go again' because he's already had to deal with The Rock. I don't know how much that reflects his real life feelings, but in terms of character it doesn't fit to me to see Cena scared or surprised about anybody coming for him.

Right so if Hogan, Flair, King Kong Bundy, appears next week, he would not be surprised.

Probably he would be, yes. But my point is that Cena doesn't show fear of anything so it follows that he wouldn't be the same as how The Rock would react. I'm not even saying it's right, I'm just saying that from a character perspective, he reacted how I would have expected him to react...never back down and all that schtick. He looked a bit jaded more than anything (to me) so who knows, maybe that's what he was going for.

by TwisT Wed 4 Apr - 21:21

Ok point very much taken.

But put yourself in Lesner's shoes. You come back, after years away, a former world champion. You have a reputation you built up in the WWE as a monster heel, and you are now known a lot more outside the ring. Coming back to the WWE is big news. You come out, to face the company figurehead. You act menacing, and like you mean business. You stalk the ring, all the time staring at the guy in the ring.......

Ok, now imagine Cena's face is what you see bearing in mind all of that.

by **Hero** Wed 4 Apr - 21:25

But if Cena's persona is one that never shows fear then it would be out of character for him to then show that weakness surely.

by Beer Wed 4 Apr - 21:26

Hero wrote:But if Cena's persona is one that never shows fear then it would be out of character for him to then show that weakness surely.

Stare him down them, follow him round the ring and then go face to face with him. Don't stand there looking like a goofy moron.

by JamesLincs Wed 4 Apr - 21:27

Leave John Cena alone..... just leave him alone! D:

by TwisT Wed 4 Apr - 21:27

King Beer wrote:
Hero wrote:But if Cena's persona is one that never shows fear then it would be out of character for him to then show that weakness surely.

Stare him down them, follow him round the ring and then go face to face with him. Don't stand there looking like a goofy moron.

Nail hit on head with a sledgehammer

by Guest Wed 4 Apr - 21:28

Its not necessarily fear he needed to show, but at least act surprised.

Lesnar's returned! Wow! What a serve by the WWE! What? Why is he coming into the ring with me? Whats going on? I know, I'll clap my hands and shrug my shoulders whilst smiling. :facepalm:

by Bull Wed 4 Apr - 21:29

agree YI!

by sodhat Wed 4 Apr - 21:30

King Beer wrote:
Hero wrote:But if Cena's persona is one that never shows fear then it would be out of character for him to then show that weakness surely.

Stare him down them, follow him round the ring and then go face to face with him. Don't stand there looking like a goofy moron.

But to a degree his character is a goofy moron!

He undeniably plays that part well.

by TwisT Wed 4 Apr - 21:31

sodhat wrote:
King Beer wrote:
Hero wrote:But if Cena's persona is one that never shows fear then it would be out of character for him to then show that weakness surely.

Stare him down them, follow him round the ring and then go face to face with him. Don't stand there looking like a goofy moron.

But to a degree his character is a goofy moron!

He undeniably plays that part well.

So now we have gone full circle. We are back to his gimmick.

I need a drink.....

by Miz NG Wed 4 Apr - 21:32

Cena's reaction to the Lesnar chants "this is why I love Raw" cemented the fact that Lesnar was back. I don't have a problem with Cena, but he needed to think on his feet to get his promo back on track and it didn't work.

The Rock managed that in his promo, with the wolf whistling fan because he made the audience laugh. His improv skills are a lot better than Cena's.

by MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch Wed 4 Apr - 21:33

How can you act surprised when the whole arena is chanting his name? It looks ridiculous. They've spent about a year now, flitting in between kayfabe and reality, making that a crux of the show,really playing on fan interaction and playing with the smarks in attendance - so you can't be inconsistent and drop that approach because it suits in this instance.

You want to point a finger, point it at whoever was tasked at keeping Lesnar's signing a secret. They blew it

by sodhat Wed 4 Apr - 21:34

TwisT wrote:
sodhat wrote:
King Beer wrote:
Hero wrote:But if Cena's persona is one that never shows fear then it would be out of character for him to then show that weakness surely.

Stare him down them, follow him round the ring and then go face to face with him. Don't stand there looking like a goofy moron.

But to a degree his character is a goofy moron!

He undeniably plays that part well.

So now we have gone full circle. We are back to his gimmick.

I need a drink.....

But that's the basis of my point - he played it how I would have expected him to play it based on his gimmick and character. Not that it's the 'right' way or the way others may have reacted, just he acted how I would have thought John Cena would react.

I think the crux of the matter is people are bored/don't like John Cena or his gimmick which admittedly is tired and needs freshening up.

by Shot 21 LCFC Wed 4 Apr - 21:36

Electric Demon wrote:How can you act surprised when the whole arena is chanting his name? It looks ridiculous. They've spent about a year now, flitting in between kayfabe and reality, making that a crux of the show,really playing on fan interaction and playing with the smarks in attendance - so you can't be inconsistent and drop that approach because it suits in this instance.

You want to point a finger, point it at whoever was tasked at keeping Lesnar's signing a secret. They blew it

by longrangeeffort Wed 4 Apr - 21:38

Just saw Lesnars return. I'm in two minds about Cena's "selling". On one hand the cheeky smirk is kind of a cocky, confident heel trait. The applause he gave didnt make sense though...I cant help thinking that this is just adding to Cenas hell turn. People will always cheer the likes of Rock and Lesnar..

Cena looked like "oh...here we go again!" It would have made more sense as the never back down good guy he is to suddenly go all serious as Lesnar isnt someone to be taken lightly. Cena seemed to take him lightly and he got F5'ed for his trouble.

tl:dr i thought his "selling" seemed more in line with a heel than a face. Just me though!

by TwisT Wed 4 Apr - 21:51

Electric Demon wrote:How can you act surprised when the whole arena is chanting his name? It looks ridiculous. They've spent about a year now, flitting in between kayfabe and reality, making that a crux of the show,really playing on fan interaction and playing with the smarks in attendance - so you can't be inconsistent and drop that approach because it suits in this instance.

You want to point a finger, point it at whoever was tasked at keeping Lesnar's signing a secret. They blew it

He might have well said then. "Ladies and Gentlemen...Mr Brock Lesner!!!!!!"

Picard with a capital P

by MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch Wed 4 Apr - 21:55

No. Because "in character", he couldn't have been sure that Brock Lesnar was going to appear. But he would definitely have his suspicions due to the crowd chanting.

by TwisT Wed 4 Apr - 22:00

Electric Demon wrote:No. Because "in character", he couldn't have been sure that Brock Lesnar was going to appear. But he would definitely have his suspicions due to the crowd chanting.

Going round and round in circles Laugh

Can we just agree that Cena's reaction was the wrong one in the circumstances?

by MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch Wed 4 Apr - 22:06

No. Why would I agree to that?

I think it was a suitable reaction.

by Beer Wed 4 Apr - 22:07

TwisT wrote:
Electric Demon wrote:No. Because "in character", he couldn't have been sure that Brock Lesnar was going to appear. But he would definitely have his suspicions due to the crowd chanting.

Going round and round in circles

Can we just agree that Cena's reaction was the wrong one in the circumstances?

The crux here is that whichever angle you look at it, his reaction is still wrong.

1) If you put it down to the circumstances, sorry, but he's been a main eventer for 5 years, deal with it.

2) If he's being unprofessional then he needs sorting, and given his attitude towards The Rock it wouldn't surprise me if this was the case.

3) If he can't control a crowd, doesn't know how to sell/work any more then there's a place called FCW that would be perfect for him.

by bretmeharty Wed 4 Apr - 22:09

TwisT wrote:
Electric Demon wrote:No. Because "in character", he couldn't have been sure that Brock Lesnar was going to appear. But he would definitely have his suspicions due to the crowd chanting.

Going round and round in circles

Can we just agree that Cena's reaction was the wrong one in the circumstances?

I do agree that was the wrong reaction to a big return but Cena is playing a character, so the beef should be with wwe and the way they want their characters portrayed.

by bretmeharty Wed 4 Apr - 22:11

My thing is the hate towards Cena for playing it a way wwe are fine with, and are not making any motion to get him to change, and have been happy with him for 7 years

by MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch Wed 4 Apr - 22:14

bretmeharty wrote:My thing is the hate towards Cena for playing it a way wwe are fine with, and are not making any motion to get him to change, and have been happy with him for 7 years

But my answer to that would be exactly the same as my answer to the critics of Sheamus vs Bryan.

That crowd reaction is worth it. Why change a thing whilst you're getting that level of volume out of them?

by bretmeharty Wed 4 Apr - 22:27

Electric Demon wrote:
bretmeharty wrote:My thing is the hate towards Cena for playing it a way wwe are fine with, and are not making any motion to get him to change, and have been happy with him for 7 years

But my answer to that would be exactly the same as my answer to the critics of Sheamus vs Bryan.

That crowd reaction is worth it. Why change a thing whilst you're getting that level of volume out of them?

Yea as what I had be saying all along, no need for Cena to sell it, which fit in with his character.

by Beer Wed 4 Apr - 22:30

bretmeharty wrote:
Electric Demon wrote:
bretmeharty wrote:My thing is the hate towards Cena for playing it a way wwe are fine with, and are not making any motion to get him to change, and have been happy with him for 7 years

But my answer to that would be exactly the same as my answer to the critics of Sheamus vs Bryan.

That crowd reaction is worth it. Why change a thing whilst you're getting that level of volume out of them?

Yea as what I had be saying all along, no need for Cena to sell it, which fit in with his character.

Your point will be valid if DBD continues to get unreal crowd reactions, we'll see what happens on RAW.

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