The Masters Pros and Cons threads

[Diggers]

Well its that time of the year again so I thought I'd raise the old chestnut about Augusta's "issues". So here we go with a few pros and cons to start -

Pros
You can almost feel the atmosphere there, a truly fantastic arena for sport.
The history of the Masters, we all have our favourite Masters moments, (mine is Sandys bunker shot). It seems to create great sporting drama.
The course still provides a good test though its not the monster it once was as courses around the world get bigger and tougher.
The Masters is just that little bit different, they do it their way and it gives a certain mystique to the event.

Cons
My biggest gripe. The iron fist control of the TV coverage. Four and a half hours a day only for the first three days. Does any other sporting event get to hold the public to ranson in this way ?
Augusta Nationals Prejudices. We all know that the history of the area in terms of racial integration is fairly unsavoury. However its women who are now the ones who are still shut out. Billy Payne tried to tell the world yesterday how inclusive Augusta was becoming only to be made a mockery of at the press conference when it was pointed out they exclude half the worlds population from their membership.The final defence isthat "we make our own decisions", which is of course fair enough. But the watching public could also make its own decisions and not tune in.
The selection of the field. One way or the other most of the worlds best players seem to tee it up every year but surely the whole process could be made far simpler ? Also should past winners who are effectively retired still be chopping it around be allowed to take the pace of more currently deserving candidates. After all we dont see Sampras coming back to Wimbledon every year for a bit of a laugh.

So thats just a few that spring to mind. Dont get me wrong, I love watching the Masters but part of me isn't proud of myself for doing so as it probably represents most of the things I really dont like about golf, exclusion and possibly even prejudice. Its mystique is based on exclusivity, we mere mortals just get to have a glimpse every year and all the rules are made by Augusta National, they have far too much power in my opinion andt he TV companies whould probably play a bit of poker with them to bring them in line.
Cant wait for it to start though. But would I be as excited it it wasnt the years first major....probably.

[mystiroakey]

Love the eccentricity of doing things there own way- but that is balanced with the invites the way it stands- no merit attached toinvitations..

[Fader]

Interesting to see what Billy Payne and the ANGC committee do about membership this year, I read that one of the memberships they hand out is always to the current CEO of IBM and have done so since they became so exclusive! Every IBM CEO has thus far been a member under the agreement with ANGC, however here is where the BUT is! The new CEO of IBM is a woman! So therefore under the ANGC/IBM agreement by rights she should become an honorary member and be allowed free reign like her predecessors! We'll see how that pans out!

[McLaren]

The field – The more I look at it, the masters may have the most suitable field for finding a player worthy of winning a major.

A couple of stats since 1980;

The number of times the major has been won by a player who at some point reached number 1 in OWGR’s:

Masters 14
US open 5
The Open 14
The PGA 9

This could be looked at as a measure of how well the major “finds” the best players.


Number of times the major has been won by one time major champions

Masters 8
US open 10
The open 12
PGA 14

Multiple major winners indicating they in no way fluked a major.

[Diggers]

But Mac, if you are the 60h best player in the world should you not be entitled to play in one of your sports premier events which has a field of 100 or whatever it is ?
For the tennis slams Im pretty sure Im right in saying that they all invite the same number of players from the rankings to make up the vast majority of the field and then have a number of wild cards to make up the rest. Surely thats a fairer way of doing things.

[mystiroakey]

fairer yes- however golf is eccentric and i agree that majors should be competed by the best and , at the end of the day the cut is as arbitary as invites if we look into it deeply(knocking out half the field- when maybe one of them could come back), and the fact is players know the crack- they need to get in the top 50- if there arnt they need to do something about it!

I am very much in two minds in reagrds to the masters field..

[NedB-H]

Pretty sure the four tennis slams all have the same system - top 100 in the rankings get in, with the 128 field completed by wildcards, qualifiers and the odd hanger-on. Not the worst system in the world.

[Diggers]

I know its not a black and white thing, and I can see the merits of a player qualifying through winning an event but not ammassing a lot of OWGR points. After all sport is about winning as much as consistency.

[kwinigolfer]

I think I'd tighten up the entry criteria a touch, Stadler should get the boot, for instance and probably Crenshaw, but can't quibble about the rest of the past Champs so long as they fulfil some "Senior" performance criteria. Lyle, Mize and Woosie on very thin ice.

For invitations, I'd introduce a Ryo rule, cap the number awarded to any single golfer at one.

I disapprove of the fact that, in any one year, two or three of the four Majors are in essentially the same geographical part of the same country - seems to be sticking two fingers up at the golf world, but no-one seems to give a toss.

Billy Payne's an idiot - no change since he lorded it over the worst Olympic Games, but fits right in with White, Male, Bible-thumping exclusionary America. Is it coincidence that Mitt Romney was the leader of the most corrupt Olympics, in Salt Lake City?

But Payne gets away with it every year, smug and self-satisfied. What a jerk! High time for the Press to show him up for the white supremacist, misogynist pr1ck that he is.

The Masters golf tournament from Thursday to Sunday is fabulous, despite the Augusta National membership and certainly not because of it.

[mystiroakey]

the worst thing about the majors is the pga and the us open. the pga should be scrapped and another major should take its place - maybe in aus or africa, maybe we should then also make a few of the world champ events into major status and also have them in other continents

[McLaren]

"But Payne gets away with it every year, smug and self-satisfied. What a jerk! High time for the Press to show him up for the white supremacist, misogynist pr1ck that he is."

No one will beat this remark all week, thats for sure.

[Lairdy]

Not having a go at anyone but it is funny how much flak the PGA gets when really it is about the strongest field, owgr wise, of all the majors... and apart from The Masters last year it has provided some of the best finishes of any of the majors in recent years.

One last point on how strong the fields should be for a major. One of the greatest beauties of golf is the fact that all levels of players can be competitive. IMO it is quite right that two of the four majors should somewhat represent this and be 'open' to more than just the top echelons.

[super_realist]

Last year was an excellent Masters.

Big con of the Masters aand any yank event are unfortunately the crowds. I refuse to call them Patrons.
They are the most moronic people at any sports event.
Anyone shouting getindahole etc, ought to be stabbed on site.

[Diggers]

Not having a go at anyone but it is funny how much flak the PGA gets when really it is about the strongest field, owgr wise, of all the majors... and apart from The Masters last year it has provided some of the best finishes of any of the majors in recent years.

One last point on how strong the fields should be for a major. One of the greatest beauties of golf is the fact that all levels of players can be competitive. IMO it is quite right that two of the four majors should somewhat represent this and be 'open' to more than just the top echelons.

Can all levels of players be competitive ? How often does that happen in reality, for every Tom Watson there are a stack of invite players who will miss the cut and not be competitive at all. The best players are higher in the rankings for good reason surely ?

[kwinigolfer]

Agree about the PGA, Lairdy, and The Masters certainly the weakest and most dispensible even if timing causes it to be the most anticipated.

[NedB-H]

Doesn't that show how redundant all the arguments about field strengths are though? Everyone moans about weak fields for various reasons at the other three tournaments, so the PGA stepped up and brought in a very strong OWGR-based criteria. And still no one cares about it, because it doesn't have anything "defining" like the other three do. For all we complain about uncompetitive players, it seems most people would rather watch the "weaker" tournaments anyway.

[mystiroakey]

The masters has character and is not dispensible in my opinion, in the same way as the open chamionship is!

The pga is just almost a mirror us open- no need for it to ave any major stauts at all..

[NedB-H]

Cons - having a worse online leaderboard than regular tour events!

[Diggers]

Perhaps the PGA is held in higher esteem in the States than it is anywhere else, maybe Kwini can answer that. Historically there hasnt been a lot of British success which is perhaps another reason why we arent that interested in it ?
For all we hold it in high esteem I doubt the average American golf fan holds the Open in the same high regard that a lot of Brits do.

[mystiroakey]

This debate comes on alot- The pga is held high in my opinion- due to the quality of the field and the list of winners.

However i think its unfair that america should have 3 majors., thats my reasoning behind it all. the pga is the most dispensable in my opinion

[Diggers]

I can see why a lot of people would dispense with the PGA. I do agree to an extent that the majors should be spread around however I wouldnt want more than four and I would rather they were held in the same country each year, again like the tennis example. Id hate to see a floating major that was in Japan one year and Spain the next.
Personally my least favourite is the Open, I just find links golf dreary on the eye , but there is no doubting the history of the event. Id rather it was played on a few inland courses as well though.

[kwinigolfer]

Don't you think the esteem with which these tournaments are held is predicated somewhat on where they sit in the calendar?

I'm sure that the PGA Championship would rise in popularity if it switched places with The Masters, for instance. And The Masters might just be seen as another high quality Invitational, which after all is what it really is.

I love 'em all but would certainly suggest that holding a second Major in the US South-East (let alone a third if you include Congressional last year) is absurd.

It might also cause the USGA and PGA of America to question Augusta National's seeming divine right to host 25% of the Majors.

[NedB-H]

Isn't a bit much to expect the only links major to be played on parkland courses as well? Like saying "let's move the majors around more", and then doing that by playing every other Open in the US. I prefer watching links golf to any other form, which is why most years the Open is my favourite major, and I prefer the others when they're on links-y courses (Pebble, Whistling Straights, etc). I find a lot of the courses on the US and PGA rotas very dull.

[mystiroakey]

so we could kill the pga, give the masters the same field method- and alternate augista(like st andrews for the open) every 5 times!!

[Diggers]

But Ned how valid is links golf these days, how many big links events are left to validate a major being played every year on a links course ? It's something of a novelty really IMO.

[SpacemanSpiff]

Can see both sides here. I somehow quite like the exclusiveness of it all. The idea all winners join the club is good in my opinion, realistically its about getting in the top 50 thats everyones goal, thats where your winner comes from. The smaller group of elite players is what everyone wants to see, I don't care if your 60 in the owgr and don't get in, quite often in the other majors a winner out of the top 50 could be condidered a fluke anyway. I think its great to give amateurs a taster, some may never get back but what a memory to have. The more you make it like the others, the duller it will be for me.

[Shotrock]

The Masters could be upended as a major.

But it will take an immense amount of money. You need to get the best players in the world to want to play somewhere else that same weekend.

So, the purse will need to be so enormous that the existing Master's purse and all the tradition and comforts associated with playing the finest manicured (not to mention one of the best designed) course on the planet are secondary.

In short, you need oil money. Isn't SuperRealist in that business? Someone get him on phone!

[kwinigolfer]

Sr,
I see your mate SO'H has been playing practice rounds with Tiger Woods. Wonder if Tiger's been assigned to return Sean to the Foley stable?

[Shotrock]

Kwin - I hope! I do know SO'H and Tiger are pretty good friends.

[NedB-H]

But Ned how valid is links golf these days, how many big links events are left to validate a major being played every year on a links course ? It's something of a novelty really IMO.

That's a bit of a chicken and egg argument surely? We don't play many links tournaments any more, so we should get rid of the few we do? I'd rather see a few more links events... though even now, we have the Open, the Scottish, the Irish and the Dunhill Links on links tracks this season, probably 4 of the 5 biggest events in Europe along with Wentworth.

[Shotrock]

Ned - Interesting point. Makes me wonder ... the European Tour holds events outside of Europe, so would the US Tour hold events outside of North America (I suppose they already do in Hawaii)? I could envision a US tour event on a great Irish links course.

I also see both sides to the Links issue: With so many great courses throughout the UK, I for one would enjoy watching the Open played on an inland classic every few years.

[Diggers]

But Ned how valid is links golf these days, how many big links events are left to validate a major being played every year on a links course ? It's something of a novelty really IMO.

That's a bit of a chicken and egg argument surely? We don't play many links tournaments any more, so we should get rid of the few we do? I'd rather see a few more links events... though even now, we have the Open, the Scottish, the Irish and the Dunhill Links on links tracks this season, probably 4 of the 5 biggest events in Europe along with Wentworth.

Thats a fair point though Id be interested to see how many of the world top 100 play more than one links event a year, I suspect only a handful play more than two. If there were more top links competitions Id say fair enough, is just my opinion that I dont particularly enjoy watching it so that would just be my tough luck.

[McLaren]

The modern pro game should be kept as far away as possible from the classic courses.

[NedB-H]

Ned - Interesting point. Makes me wonder ... the European Tour holds events outside of Europe, so would the US Tour hold events outside of North America (I suppose they already do in Hawaii)? I could envision a US tour event on a great Irish links course.

I also see both sides to the Links issue: With so many great courses throughout the UK, I for one would enjoy watching the Open played on an inland classic every few years.

Well they are starting to aren't they SR... a couple of sojourns south to Mexico and Puerto Rico, the NW has been in S. America for a good few years, and Finchem's pet Malaysian event as well now. But I suspect there's a much bigger pressure to keep things internal for the PGA Tour than for the ET, where it's always been about chasing the money to a larger extent, and where travelling has always been part of the job. Of course N America is a bigger market anyway...

Diggers I think we're just saying the same thing from opposite angles, links events are my favourites to watch so I have no problem with as many of them as possible...

[GPB]

I don't get the criticism of inviting the past champs. The field size is stretchable and elastic, if someone qualifies, they are in, and no one is kicked out.

They are not keeping some other player from being in the field as Pete Sampras would do at Wimbledon if he played. Or when Tiger was given a Lifetime Achievement Pick by Couples for the Presidents Cup.

My biggest gripe has already been documented. lack of TV coverage. I want more!

[Shotrock]

Good point Ned -- and I can assure you there are many large markets in the US that are eager for a regular tour stop. Philadelphia for instance.

[kwinigolfer]

Sr,
You could make a similar case for alomost the entire northern tier of the US, from Seattle, through Denver, to MSP, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, St.Louis, CNY, etc. All great markets (well, perhaps with one exception) who golf has systematically deprived of top class events for years; thanks Tim.

[Shotrock]

Kwin - Not to dis-rail all this Master's talk, but perhaps the lack of a regular tour stop in so many large and eager markets is just what makes the US tour so strong ... January in Hawaii I get, most of the lower 48 is pretty iffy that time of year. But the markets you mention are generally clamoring for a chance. Tim manages a very effective business model!

[Diggers]

I don't get the criticism of inviting the past champs. The field size is stretchable and elastic, if someone qualifies, they are in, and no one is kicked out.

They are not keeping some other player from being in the field as Pete Sampras would do at Wimbledon if he played. Or when Tiger was given a Lifetime Achievement Pick by Couples for the Presidents Cup.

My biggest gripe has already been documented. lack of TV coverage. I want more!

I see this the other way, I dont see why anybody would want to see a non competitive golfer compete in what is meant to be one of the four elite events of the year. If you want to watch these guys tee it up then watch the Grandads tour (actually Im 45 in a couple of weeks so I should be more resperctful...eek).
To me its just a sentimental gesture, we get enough of that already with the old boys teeing it off to start the thing.

[George1507]

Oh please, stop moaning.

Not enough TV, too many majors in the US, wrong field, shouldn't have past champions, don't like Augusta National GC, Billy Payne is offensive etc etc.

Things aren't going to change, and the reason is written in the first post.

"we make our own decisions"

If you don't like it, don't watch it. If you change it, it'll become just like the Greater Palookaville Open sponsored by Genetico and Massiveco and Colossalco.

[Shotrock]

George1507 --

[Diggers]

Lighten up George, it is a debating board and there are valid points on here. It's just having a chat, nobody is going to march on Augusta to try and revolutionise the place.

[McLaren]

George,

You seem to be assuming that what people do is both good for themselves and others. We watch the masters because we like golf, not because we support sexism or whatever else ANGC are up to. If only we could organize a boycott of the masters?

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