Biggest Welsh shake-up since 2003!

First topic message reminder :

With the PriceWaterhouseandCooper report due soon (anyone know when?), constant articles about Cardiff/Scarlets finances, Dragons being bottom region, and Valleys and North Wales not being represented.

What chages do you realistically think the WRU will make when this is published?

No WUMS please don't be saying you think a region should be closed just because you don't like it. Just what changes you think that Pricewaterhousecooper will recommend, and which the WRU will put in place.

Three things

1) The worrying trend I see from a welsh point of view is that scottish teams are holding on to the majority of their players, bring back others and now taking the middle players (not the stars but not the reserves) or bench warmers from wales.
The welsh teams are still strong for next year but if the scottish teams pass them which is possible in two years were does that leave the regions.

2)going back to the Welsh clubs had a chance to go into the english system. Do you think it would have worked I am not so sure.
a) WRU could not have put in the 1.5m per year into the clubs as they do now
b) TV money for Rabo would be lost and how would it compare to the Prem TV money as they would not really add to the viewing size
c) More welsh players would play of english teams as it is easy to move around between England and Wales

3)do you see the player drain slowing or will it be like SA where kids are being lured to other countries with college and things like that thus weakening the rising generation. It is no different education wise going to an english welsh Scottish or even Northern Ireland Acadmey

Brendan. There's some who bizarrely believe that there is no player drain. I think it's really worrying that average players are off too.
I think the Scottish teams are as strong as the Welsh regions now. Edinburgh beating Toulouse and Glasgow going strong in the Rabies.
I don't worry about academy players leaving Wales. Not yet anyway. The players who have gone for the money, can't be blamed. They are just making the most of z short career, but all of them have years of experience at the regions and hopefully when they come back to Wales, they'll be the better for it.
There does seem to be a spiral and more players seem to have jumped on the bandwagon. Look at Huw Bennett. Signed for Lyon, who look to be heading for the 2nd division in France.

they thing that worries me is when does the amount leaving cause the rest to leave at what point is tipping point. once tipping point comes thats it. It has been seen with soccer and other sports two

Firstly there is no question in my mind Lewis has been a brilliant aquistion. Obviously the people bad mouthing him are bitter valley supporters. We are run far better these days then the days of old when the system at top was just a plain shambles. The RFU would kill for our setup if we are honest.

In reality i expect partial central contracts to come in. Probably around 20 of the best players in Wales which I imagine the WRU will spread to each region with 5 a piece. That wont neccessarily please the Ospreys,Scarlets & Blues though as they have a bulk of that 20 so may lose a player or two.

It all depends on how much the WRU can fund really but if Lewis is smart he will immediatly look to restrict the Regions further on Foreign imports and additionally look at Hore's comments regarding Wales representation abroad. No Question in my mind should Wales now adopt a New Zealand policy.

Who would the Blues lose? Halfpenny, Roberts, Warburton, Cuthbert and....? That's : top players. Maybe Bradley Davies. Lloyd Williams??
The Scarlets. Rees, Owens? Knoyle? Priestland, J. Davies, North, Stoddart??
The Ospreys. Adam Jones, AWJ, Ian Evans? Ryan Jones? Tipuric? Webb?
The Dragons. Faletau and Lydiate.

Is think the WRU would struggle to work out the top 20 in Wales.

I just can't get past the thought that we should return to the premiership and form the 'regions' come HC time only.

It'll leave the Rabo in the lurch but for the sake of the nations love affair with the sport we need the rivalry of beating each other, but also need to be competitive in europe!

I think producing 3/4 team per region means we'll constantly be in a situation of competition for club place, region place and international place!

Bring in central contracts reviewed annually (20) and allow the clubs to be owned by the private owners, and regions be under WRU appointment!

thebluesmancometh wrote:I just can't get past the thought that we should return to the premiership and form the 'regions' come HC time only.

Makes a lot of sense, but would you want the Prem finished before the start of the HEC?

If the regions also played a 'state of origin' type mini-tournament between them prior to the HEC then that pretty much takes up the 20 games Sam Warburton would like to play next season.

No the prem would run as normal, and not break.

Lets be honest, Welsh internationals rarely play Rabo games, it's a development tourny, but at least for their clubs they would want to play the big Derbies, they would want to face players looking to oust them regionaly or internationally and we would finally have som pride in our jersey behind int level.

For me that is why the Welsh team are looking good, the players are playing for something they truly beleive in instead of a faceless, generic colour of a region!

If they played a reduced Prem out over the summer/autumn though, you could have a proper draft of the best players into four representative 'regional' sides that would then go on to beat seven bells of each other in the regional derbies and the HEC.

I don't think a summer prem is the option!

The prem now offers very little less than the Rabo does for our top players!

I'm not sure it would work if you go back to what you have. You really would need to split the Premership otherwise you would end up the top teams puting 60+ on the lower teams.

Is there any possibility of getting smaller backers to add in the extra money. I know wales is poor so I don't know how big attendances could supply the money on its own.

Also If wales left the Rabo would they be allowed back in and what is the exit fee

My idea is to kind of limit it to lets say 3/4 clubs per region, use smaller investors to own these clubs, and let them battle it out for players from the regions squads now, limiting it to 6/7 players per club possibly.

The WRU central contracts would dictate who they played for, so the players would be spread evenly and to optimum situations.

Lets say...

Dragons
Blues
Valleys
Ospreys
Scarlets
North

All name 3 prem clubs each, thats an 18 team league, of course there will be weaker teams, namely out west and north, but for development it would be excellent.

Any prize money from the comp could be recycled into the clubs evenly, or used to pay central contracts, with bonus's going to the regional clubs player representitives etc...

Either negotiate another Amlin spot for a welsh club (or possibly 2 spots) or have the region/ 2 regions gather and play each other in HC weekends as a derby/qualifier to decide who faces the least succesfull european region etc..

Personally I would rather the regional players to be contracted to clubs within the region (E.g. Priestland would be contracted to Llanelli, North to Llandovery, and Owens to Carmarthen Quins) and then if the player is not part of the match day 23 then they could drop down tot he prem and play for their club. If the players were spread fairly then the prem would become far stronger as there wold be a higher quality of player down there. That would help the youngster develope too.

To be fair SS, whilst the players might not actually be contracted to the clubs, the Scarlets are already doing that.

Welch and Edwards often turn out for Llandovery, Owens regained his match fitness playing for Quins, Knoyle is about to do the same with Llanelli. The one thing that I don't like is that if needs be the Scarlets could switch Welch over to Llanelli if needed, which I think it something that shouldn't be allowed. They should have a prem club and stickwith that.