and the Wasps run in gets that little bit harder...

http://www.wasps.co.uk/news/wasps33089.ink

Club captain John Hart has retired with immeadiate effect due to a shoulder injury. Wasps are really struggling to find a fit pack at the moment and seem to be relying heavilly on youngsters.

This is getting ridiculous...

That's v sad, he was a great servant for Wasps and I'm sure his influence will be much missed

No doubt Dai Young will get D Jones or some other clapped out Cardiff player to fill the void.

In the end if they do survive this could be good for Wasps.

Lots of youngsters getting loads of game time at the coalface in make or break games. If Wasps can keep most of them and not trade them for the chaff then they'll be better off in the long run.

Or am I clutching at straws?

The final game is going to be huge!!!

It's an incredible run of luck, and sad to see someone as young as 30 forced to retire.

Wass squad for next year looks good though, with plenty of backrow options. I think they'll soon to purchased and I'm going to make an early prediction of a top 6 finish in the AP next year.

Has there ever been a side have so many players retire in one season? You have to feel so sorry for Wasps and of course Hart, a good abbrasive forward.

Thompson, Ward-Smith, Worsley, Rees and Hart. All retired through injuries. Our first choice back row, and hooker all gone, in a game now dominated by the break down.

If we sort things out financially, then the likes of Joe Launchbury, Sam Jones and Jonathan Poff (my player of the season), + Tom Lindsay at hooker, will be better next season for the experiences of this dreadful one.

ALLEZ!!!

If you stay up...?

GeordieFalcon wrote:If you stay up...?

I thought you were reconciled to relegation. all of a sudden you have hope?

Could be a decent Wasps first team next season:

1.Payne
2.Lindsay
3.Talufo
4.Palmer
5.Wentzel
6.New Saffa
7.Poff
8.Haskell
9.Simpson
10.Jones
11.Wade
12.Waldouck
13.Daley
14.Varndell
15.Southwell

Bench: Russian hooker plus two props (names? Broster going), Launchbury, Jones, Berry, Davies (as Robinson is probably off), Haughton.

If they can get some decent props in and possibly another hooker that's not a bad team at all. That's if they can survive and get a new owner though.

Ozzie has just pointed out on another thread that if Clermont or Edinburgh win the Heineken Cup then Wasps are in next year's HEC!

France will have 7 teams next season due to winning the Amlin, and Scotland don't have a 3rd team and Wasps are the top-ranked non-qualifier (ie they're ranked ahead of the rest of the English clubs, Connacht & Dragons.

Kiwireddevil wrote:Ozzie has just pointed out on another thread that if Clermont or Edinburgh win the Heineken Cup then Wasps are in next year's HEC!

France will have 7 teams next season due to winning the Amlin, and Scotland don't have a 3rd team and Wasps are the top-ranked non-qualifier (ie they're ranked ahead of the rest of the English clubs, Connacht & Dragons.

That's a joke surely? Clermont winning the HC is certainly not out of the question.

Apparently they have to stay up though

Ozzy3213 wrote:Although I believe there is a caveat on that in that all competing teams must play in the highest possible domestic league available to them, which means if Wasps get relegated they cannot qualify, in which case I think next in line is Bath.

So here's the skinny according to the Grauniad's Breakdown column:

The financial plight being endured by Wasps has so spooked Premiership Rugby that it has written to all its member clubs stressing the need to say nothing negative about the prospect of one of the most successful sides in the professional era going into administration.
It is not keen to dwell on the precedent set in 1999 when two Premiership clubs, Richmond and London Scottish, went into administration and were immediately expelled, plunging down nine divisions to start again from the bottom.
Wasps, unlike Richmond and London Scottish, are founder members of the Premiership and one of English rugby's biggest names. The positive spin from the top is that potential buyers are in discussions and administration is a possibility rather than a probability.
Wasps have enough money to last until the end of their season, which will be at the beginning of next month. It seems they will need a settle a debt of some £2m a few weeks later, which would be before the official end of the campaign. Without a new backer, administration might be the only option.
That would trigger a deduction of 22 points under the Rugby Football Union's regulation regarding insolvency which, if applied to this season, would see Wasps finish at the bottom of the table and face the prospect, depending on whether the Championship winners fulfil the entry criteria for the Premiership, of relegation.
If Newcastle finish bottom and Wasps go into administration, it may be July before the Falcons know their fate, assuming the Championship champions are promoted, because the rules governing a club becoming insolvent are riddled with sub-clauses.
First, if an Insolvency Event, to use the jargon, occurs at a club other than during a season, "such club may not commence playing in any RFU competition without the specific written approval of the RFU and only upon such terms as the RFU may in its absolute discretion impose in giving such written approval."
That includes the deduction of league points. "Without prejudice to any other action that the RFU may take or require to be taken, and without prejudice to requirements under any Regulation or Rule of the RFU, in the event that a Club playing in the Premiership or the League (other than in the Championship) suffers an Insolvency Event, that club shall suffer a points deduction equal to one fifth of the total number of available points (including bonus points) to a Club in the League (or Premiership, as the case may be) in which that Club plays."
So Wasps could be deducted 22 points, but would if they went into administration in the close season, would the sanction be retrospective? "If the Insolvency Event occurs during a Season, the relevant points deduction will take effect during that Season. If such Insolvency Event occurs outside a Season, the RFU may at its discretion apply the points deduction to the previous Season (and the League or Premiership table of that Season shall be so amended), or may apply the deduction in the following Season."
That is not all. If Wasps go into administration having finished bottom of the Premiership and are deducted points from this season's campaign, they would have the same deduction next season, whatever division they were playing in. "If, were the points deducted from a Club to be added back to that Club's points total at the end of the Season in which they were deducted, that Club would have been in the relegation zone of its League (or the Premiership, as the case may be) then the RFU shall apply that points deduction to the following Season in addition to the Season in which it was first applied."
If Newcastle finish bottom and Wasps then go into administration, it will be many weeks before the Falcons know their fate. "Where a club suffers an Insolvency Event, provided that all outstanding creditors of that Club are paid in full within six weeks of the Insolvency Event occurring, that Club shall not be subject to the points deduction set out in (the regulations)."
Are Wasps doomed if they do not find a backer? They do not own their own ground, not their training facility at Acton. They have assets in their players, but there is not much of a transfer market in rugby union , but they do have something that may appeal to an owner.
Member clubs of Premiership Rugby have A and P shares. The former number 40 and if a side is relegated, it loses them at the rate of five a year. The value lies in the P (for perpetual) share, which is annually worth 24 per cent of the central income enjoyed by clubs in the top flight, not far short of £3m.
If Wasps sold their P share, a buyer would receive annual income of around £730,000 but the club would be left with little to attract a new owner unless he or she were an avid supporter of the club. It may depend on how desperate Wasps are for a substantial cash injection by the middle of next month, which boils down to which creditor is chasing them hardest.

Very interesting reading

I'm a little suprised they've not managed to find a new buyer. The club has massive potential, should be available for next to nothing (limited assets out weighed by serious debt) but has a rich brand heritage. Rugby clubs aren't the massive drain on the wallet that football clubs are and can when run effectively actually turn a small profit.

The potential is certainly there if they can stay up as they have some international returning in the summer and some promising youngsters with a good coaching team in place. The fan base are very loyal and will swell at the first sign of returning success (as happens with all teams) doubley so if they can move to a new ground with better transport links. Is there no local millionaire who likes watching a bit of rugby at the weekend?

Sam, problem is that like London Irish and Saracens they have no ground. Whilst a passing millionaire may be happy to throw money at a famous old team, big name cachet and so on, would they be happy to spend most of the investment in rent to Wycombe Wanderers ?
It always seems strange to me that a Championship club has to have it's own ground to get promoted, Newcastle who have thier own ground can be relegated but Wasps and the other are OK to groundshare.

It always seems strange to me that a Championship club has to have it's own ground to get promoted

They don't need their own ground they need primacy of tenure, in other words first dibs on the ground so that they can appear on tv whenever Sky or ESPN wish to broadcast them.

The club aren't stuck to Wycombe for any other reason than that's the ground their current owner has and he wanted them to play there and then move them to a new facility in Wycombe as part of a multi-sports development. That has fallen through and so the new owner could in fact move them wherever he wanted too. He could move them somewhere short term whilst trying to put together a development for a long term home for the clubs ala Sarries who at Watford only long enough for their new ground to be put together. They just need the finance to facilitate a move to a new home (preferably one with better financial links).