Ashley Young

by **Kenny** Sun 15 Apr 2012, 6:01 pm

What does everyone think of todays incident ?

Newcastle United defender Ryan Taylor tweeted it was Disgraceful and that Ashley Young was the biggest cheat in the league , he has removed this now from twitter .

I dont want this to look like a Liverpool fan wumming so i will not pass judgement on an individual incident . All i will say is i hate to see diving yes even by Suarez Carroll or Gerrard i dont condone diving by anyone it is spoiling football .

Carlos Tevez was fouled yesterday and should of been awarded a penalty but instead he was booked for diving , today Ashley Young is awarded a penalty for a dubious foul . These decisions can cost titles .

Referees have a hard enough time without having to second guess wether a player has dived or if it was a foul . For me diving is cheating and needs to be stopped , harsher fines , bigger bans and maybe even points taken off teams would make clubs stop players from diving .

by Liam Sun 15 Apr 2012, 8:49 pm

What I will say is he's not the only one like you said. Its because he's done it twice in a week and earned his side two penalties. What I will say is the argument is there that both times there was contact (minimal at best), but his theatrics are just embarrassing. SAF won't come out and ridicule him because he;s got his side two penalties at a crucial part of the season, he's looking at the bigger picture, if he came out and criticised him it would leave the player distraught, and impact on united's season.

Diving is a terrible part of our sport, and until there are tougher sanctions against divers then it will still be around for years to come. They should do what they did with Eduardo and ban a player if he's seen to have dived, that will stop divers full stop, you have to get tough with players. End of.

by **Kenny** Sun 15 Apr 2012, 8:55 pm

I hate that it effects all football , i had a huge argument with my 8 year old sons coach a few months back as he had told all the players to go down in the penalty area if they were touched . Virtually telling them to cheat .

I told my son that if he dived he would lose his pocket money for a year .

by The Special Juan Sun 15 Apr 2012, 9:51 pm

I'll stand by what I said at the time. It was the softest of soft penalites but there's no doubt there was contact. So if there's contact and he goes over is that a dive? It depends on how you look at it. He did fling himself to the ground theatrically. I don't condone diving in any shape or form.

Apparently, Aaron Lennon should have gone down today in the match but chose to stay on his feet and therefore wasn't awarded a penalty. So if you don't go down, you don't get a penalty.

Back to today, I'm on the fence. There was contact but Young flung himself to the ground. I can't decide, therefore I won't.

by **hampo17** Sun 15 Apr 2012, 10:00 pm

Ray Wilkin summed Youngs dive up perfectly, he made contact with the defender not the other way around, and you can see the way his leg moved he was searching for contact.

by westisbest Sun 15 Apr 2012, 10:26 pm

Its embarrassing from Young.

Did it with us and its shocking.

Should be ashamed with himself.

by The Special Juan Sun 15 Apr 2012, 11:04 pm

I'll watch MotD and assess what happened again. I wasn't paying too much attention at the time.

by liverbnz Sun 15 Apr 2012, 11:27 pm

The FA failed to overturn Derry's ridiculous red card last week and this is the result. They've boxed themselves into a corner. No doubt they'll get their way out with another ridiculous and inconsistent decision.

by liverbnz Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:11 am

Spoiler:

by TopHat24/7 Mon 16 Apr 2012, 9:38 am

Very minor foul (but a foul all the same), but to quote SAF, Ashely Young "played for it". He's not alone in this and as an earlier poster mentioned it is only the fact he's done it twice in a week or so (the last one was totally illegitimate IMO) that he's facing such derision. Robert Pires years ago pulled off just about the worst dive I've ever seen - there wasn't a player within at least a yard of him - and won a penalty. Neither of Young's recent dives were as bad as Carroll's the other week either.

I think we can all agree it's wrong though and symptomatic of the modern game. I remember when Rooney broke on to the scene, he was so strong we missed out on dozens of penalties because he refused to go down. After a couple of seasons he realised it was better to play the game rather than fight it. Sad times.

Refs have it hard enough as it is.

by marty2086 Mon 16 Apr 2012, 11:44 am

As a Utd fan I was embarassed and couldnt believe the ref gave it

What doesn't help is pundits saying there was contact so therefore it equals a penalty I remember Rooney against Arsenal and Campbell challenged him no contact but Rooney trying to avoid it went over that is still a penalty

by d260005p Mon 16 Apr 2012, 11:51 am

Bottom line: Was there contact? Yes. Would it have been a Freekick anywhere on the pitch? Yes. Did he go down theatrical? Possibly because he was running at pace into the box.

Never the less, there was contact, so nobody can complain in my eyes.

Clark should not have put his leg out and jumped in at the end of the day. Especially against a tricky player in Young and especially at Old Trafford.

by GG Mon 16 Apr 2012, 11:59 am

Football is contact sport, and contact doesn't equal foul.

by Stella Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:05 pm

d260005p wrote:Bottom line: Was there contact? Yes. Would it have been a Freekick anywhere on the pitch? Yes. Did he go down theatrical? Possibly because he was running at pace into the box.

Never the less, there was contact, so nobody can complain in my eyes.

Clark should not have put his leg out and jumped in at the end of the day. Especially against a tricky player in Young and especially at Old Trafford.

Was a pen but he DID dive.

by sodhat Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:08 pm

I don't see contact on it at all, but maybe it's the angle.

Either way I can't believe so many are now of the belief that it was a foul. Whatever minor contact there was wouldn't be enough to send him toppling, and the way he extends his leg towards the Villa player as he goes down makes it clear to me that he'd made his decision and he was playing for a penalty. No sympathy for any criticism he suffers because of this because that was poor.

by lorus59 Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:13 pm

sodhat I agree with you 100%. Players that "look for contact" should be ostracised for sure. A penalty should be when a player deliberately fouls another player.

by Stella Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:15 pm

I thought the defender did clip his left leg? I know Young moved the right one over towards the defenders but the left was clipped from what I recall.

by marty2086 Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:17 pm

The sad thing is that if he had of tried to keep running Clark probably would have caught his left foot and brought him down but well never know because he dived yes there was contact but it wasnt the contact that brought him down

by d260005p Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:25 pm

GG wrote:Football is contact sport, and contact doesn't equal foul.

Football is not a contact sport. Its a technical sport. Contact as in shoudler barge, but its not the aim of the game.

Contact sports are Boxing, Rugby, NHL, NFL.

Basketball, Football, Baseball etc are not legitimate CONTACT sports.

If you go to get the ball, miss it, and kick a player in the shin, its a foul.

by d260005p Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:27 pm

lorus59 wrote:sodhat I agree with you 100%. Players that "look for contact" should be ostracised for sure. A penalty should be when a player deliberately fouls another player.

Clark missed the ball and got the player. Thats the bottom line. Contact was made.

He should not have put himself in the position for Young to "dive" or "go down easily" or whatever.

Only has himself to blame.

Rule 1 as a defender - dont jump in, especially in the box.

by marty2086 Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:27 pm

d260005p wrote:
GG wrote:Football is contact sport, and contact doesn't equal foul.

Football is not a contact sport. Its a technical sport. Contact as in shoudler barge, but its not the aim of the game.

Contact sports are Boxing, Rugby, NHL, NFL.

Basketball, Football, Baseball etc are not legitimate CONTACT sports.

If you go to get the ball, miss it, and kick a player in the shin, its a foul.

Its not a foul its only a foul if the contact restricts the players movement ie knocking them off balance of bringing them down but because there is contact does not make it a foul

by dublfcynwa Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:28 pm

Shameful cheating for the second week in a row by the biggest cheat in the league. If Suarez did this he would prob be deported but because its a United player everybody just accepts at this stage that United get at least 12 points from the corrupt f.a/corrupt refs every season.

by marty2086 Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:31 pm

dublfcynwa wrote:Shameful cheating for the second week in a row by the biggest cheat in the league. If Suarez did this he would prob be deported but because its a United player everybody just accepts at this stage that United get at least 12 points from the corrupt f.a/corrupt refs every season.

Suarez did it against Arsenal so censored

Utd get less penalties than most of the big teams and concede about the average amount for a Premier League team

by d260005p Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:47 pm

to compare Young to Suarez is a bit extreme to be honest. Suarez dives at least 3 - 4 times per game, throws "fake" yellow cards at the ref to get everbody booked.

It wasnt that long ago where he handled the ball over the line and celebrated like he won the Champions League.

Must still be thinking he is at the World Cup after his super save for Uruguay.

by d260005p Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:47 pm

marty2086 wrote:
d260005p wrote:
GG wrote:Football is contact sport, and contact doesn't equal foul.

Football is not a contact sport. Its a technical sport. Contact as in shoudler barge, but its not the aim of the game.

Contact sports are Boxing, Rugby, NHL, NFL.

Basketball, Football, Baseball etc are not legitimate CONTACT sports.

If you go to get the ball, miss it, and kick a player in the shin, its a foul.

Its not a foul its only a foul if the contact restricts the players movement ie knocking them off balance of bringing them down but because there is contact does not make it a foul

Well im sure if you were running into the box, i went to tackle you, missed the ball, left my leg in your way, that it would be classed as a foul

by sodhat Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:55 pm

d260005p wrote:
lorus59 wrote:sodhat I agree with you 100%. Players that "look for contact" should be ostracised for sure. A penalty should be when a player deliberately fouls another player.

Clark missed the ball and got the player. Thats the bottom line. Contact was made.

He should not have put himself in the position for Young to "dive" or "go down easily" or whatever.

Only has himself to blame.

Rule 1 as a defender - dont jump in, especially in the box.

I don't think the use of quotation marks around dive, and go down easily, is necessary in the context of Ashley Young's late bid to make the 2012 Olympic diving team.

by marty2086 Mon 16 Apr 2012, 1:02 pm

d260005p wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
d260005p wrote:
GG wrote:Football is contact sport, and contact doesn't equal foul.

Football is not a contact sport. Its a technical sport. Contact as in shoudler barge, but its not the aim of the game.

Contact sports are Boxing, Rugby, NHL, NFL.

Basketball, Football, Baseball etc are not legitimate CONTACT sports.

If you go to get the ball, miss it, and kick a player in the shin, its a foul.

But he didnt leave his leg in Youngs way he made contact with him
Its not a foul its only a foul if the contact restricts the players movement ie knocking them off balance of bringing them down but because there is contact does not make it a foul

Well im sure if you were running into the box, i went to tackle you, missed the ball, left my leg in your way, that it would be classed as a foul

by Diggers Mon 16 Apr 2012, 1:08 pm

Why is a dive any worse than a defender making a cynical foul when he is beaten ? The defender might get a free kick called against him but he certainly wont complain if he doesnt.
Defenders are taught how to foul and get away with it during corners and free kicks...does anyone call them cynical cheating so and so's ? Nope, never and they hardly ever even get a fould against them despite virtually wrestling opposing strikers.
Yet a forward the most of a challenge on him and suddenly he is the anti christ. I cant see how exagerating a foul is any worse than any other offence that happens constantly during a game. It might be theatrics but again so is every players reaction to any challenge they make or is madeo n them to try and get a result in their favour.

by sodhat Mon 16 Apr 2012, 1:18 pm

Diggers wrote:Why is a dive any worse than a defender making a cynical foul when he is beaten ? The defender might get a free kick called against him but he certainly wont complain if he doesnt.
Defenders are taught how to foul and get away with it during corners and free kicks...does anyone call them cynical cheating so and so's ? Nope, never and they hardly ever even get a fould against them despite virtually wrestling opposing strikers.
Yet a forward the most of a challenge on him and suddenly he is the anti christ. I cant see how exagerating a foul is any worse than any other offence that happens constantly during a game. It might be theatrics but again so is every players reaction to any challenge they make or is madeo n them to try and get a result in their favour.

The corner example is a bit of give and take - are we saying attackers don't employ the same techniques? I'd refer you to John Terry's goal vs. Barcelona a couple of years back for an example.

by Diggers Mon 16 Apr 2012, 1:26 pm

Strikers are the ones who get the decisions called against them as a rule though.
But ultimately its all against the rules of the game. If a player runs the ball out of touch do they ever admit it ? Strikers are always making early runs when they will often know they are offside and hope they will get away with it.
My point is cheating is effectively part of the game in football, I doubt 5 minutes goes by without some kind of infringement that the player will be hoping he gets away with.
If a midfielder cynically takes out someone who beats him it just seen as professional. Why doesnt that get as much stick as diving ?

by lorus59 Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:09 pm

Diggers wrote:Strikers are the ones who get the decisions called against them as a rule though.
But ultimately its all against the rules of the game. If a player runs the ball out of touch do they ever admit it ? Strikers are always making early runs when they will often know they are offside and hope they will get away with it.
My point is cheating is effectively part of the game in football, I doubt 5 minutes goes by without some kind of infringement that the player will be hoping he gets away with.
If a midfielder cynically takes out someone who beats him it just seen as professional. Why doesnt that get as much stick as diving ?

But if the midfielder cynically takes out a player, 99% of the time he gets a yellow or red card. Rarely do they get away with it. The cheating diver gets away with it too often.

by Josiah Maiestas Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:13 pm

Sorry but the slightest contact does not constitute jumping to the ground as if he's jumping out the way of a bomb. Ashley Young needs to be given a heavy ban from the game to stop it continuing, which it will if big bans are not given.

Cheat!!

by marty2086 Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:17 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Sorry but the slightest contact does not constitute jumping to the ground as if he's jumping out the way of a bomb. Ashley Young needs to be given a heavy ban from the game to stop it continuing, which it will if big bans are not given.

Cheat!!

Im sorry but singling him out is wrong considering a large number of players do it and I think thats where the problem comes in because so many do it its become almost acceptable

by Diggers Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:21 pm

lorus59 wrote:
Diggers wrote:Strikers are the ones who get the decisions called against them as a rule though.
But ultimately its all against the rules of the game. If a player runs the ball out of touch do they ever admit it ? Strikers are always making early runs when they will often know they are offside and hope they will get away with it.
My point is cheating is effectively part of the game in football, I doubt 5 minutes goes by without some kind of infringement that the player will be hoping he gets away with.
If a midfielder cynically takes out someone who beats him it just seen as professional. Why doesnt that get as much stick as diving ?

But if the midfielder cynically takes out a player, 99% of the time he gets a yellow or red card. Rarely do they get away with it. The cheating diver gets away with it too often.

Id say that usually they just get given a free kick against them, at least for the first offence. But thats not really the point, the point is its cheating and yet its not stigmatised the way diving is, why ? Its equally as cynical, I think in this country we see the game in some macho light where fouling is OK but a bit of a dive is abominable.
If the dive is seen by the ref as a dive he gets booked, fine, thats an offence but it shouldnt be seen as any different to any other.

by Diggers Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:23 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Sorry but the slightest contact does not constitute jumping to the ground as if he's jumping out the way of a bomb. Ashley Young needs to be given a heavy ban from the game to stop it continuing, which it will if big bans are not given.

Cheat!!

But you are quite happy for all the other people who cheated during that game (if indeed Young really did cheat or merely exagerate a contact)......and that will be virtually every player....to not get any ban as the way they cheated doesnt offend you ?

by Josiah Maiestas Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:26 pm

Its a great example of why there is only 1 English team doing well in Europe this year, because most teams are reverting to diving/cheating than playing a traditional way.

English football has more cheating than Spain and Italy put together!!

by Josiah Maiestas Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:30 pm

But you are quite happy for all the other people who cheated during that game (if indeed Young really did cheat or merely exagerate a contact)......and that will be virtually every player....to not get any ban as the way they cheated doesnt offend you ?

Arsenal have Gervinho.
Liverpool have Suarez.
Chelsea have Droga.
City have Balotelli.

Take off them red glasses!!

by Diggers Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:30 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Its a great example of why there is only 1 English team doing well in Europe this year, because most teams are reverting to diving/cheating than playing a traditional way.

English football has more cheating than Spain and Italy put together!!

You clearly havent watched a Barcelona v Real Madrid game lately.

by Diggers Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:32 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
But you are quite happy for all the other people who cheated during that game (if indeed Young really did cheat or merely exagerate a contact)......and that will be virtually every player....to not get any ban as the way they cheated doesnt offend you ?
Arsenal have Gervinho.
Liverpool have Suarez.
Chelsea have Droga.
City have Balotelli.

Take off them red glasses!!

And all those teams have other players who will cynically foul during a game, why arent you calling for them to be banned ? Not very consistent really.

by **Kenny** Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:53 pm

I think it's safe to say that every team in football has someone who will seek to gain an advantage by going down in a tackle to easily .

by sodhat Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:53 pm

Diggers wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:
But you are quite happy for all the other people who cheated during that game (if indeed Young really did cheat or merely exagerate a contact)......and that will be virtually every player....to not get any ban as the way they cheated doesnt offend you ?
Arsenal have Gervinho.
Liverpool have Suarez.
Chelsea have Droga.
City have Balotelli.

Take off them red glasses!!

And all those teams have other players who will cynically foul during a game, why arent you calling for them to be banned ? Not very consistent really.

Cynical fouls, such as pulling the shirt of someone through on goal will be punished if seen, presumably with a red.

No one is saying these things a) don't go on, and b) aren't as abhorrent; it seems like you are seeing two wrongs and making a right however. Just because fouls go on and may not always be seen doesn't excuse Young's ridiculous swan dive, which like it or not, is blatent cheating. He deserves as much criticism as people are willing to throw at him.

by Diggers Mon 16 Apr 2012, 2:57 pm

Im not saying two wrongs make a right, Im saying its rank hypocrisy to whinge on about Youngs "dive" at the exclusion of other offences.
It was a penalty, the foul was committed by the defender and the attacker made the most of it. Fair play to him I say.

by Josiah Maiestas Mon 16 Apr 2012, 3:02 pm

I'm not normally bothered by debatable dives but to be
so theatrical like Young was and to his former club who
idolised him really annoys me nope

Refs in this country are some of the worst in the game too.

by sodhat Mon 16 Apr 2012, 3:03 pm

But what other offences?

The jostling in the box at a corner? Shirt pulling?

All these things are wrong and should be punished, but diving in the box firstly presents the cheater's team with a direct goal opportunity (which in this case, was taken) and secondly could see a fellow player disciplined for doing little wrong.

It can materially change a match and get an undeserved advantage in terms of goals, or cards, or even numbers. That's why people hate it, and that's why Ashley Young deserves no credit like you are giving him by saying 'fair play'.

by **Kenny** Mon 16 Apr 2012, 3:03 pm

It's all a matter of opinion isn't it ? Does the defender make contact with the attacker or has the attacker made contact with the defender ?

Its the way that players over react to the contact thats the issue they go down as if they are shot .

FIFA , UEFA and every football federation needs to stamp it out . Punish the clubs by docking points , the the clubs will soon stop their players from diving if they are going to lose points .

by Josiah Maiestas Mon 16 Apr 2012, 3:04 pm

Fair play to him I say.

See if you are saying that if another team gets a bad decision in
their favour against ManU!!

by Diggers Mon 16 Apr 2012, 3:07 pm

Every single infringement influences the game, just because it happens at the other end of the pitch is irrelevant, the fact is its changed the flow of the match and could well lead to a goal.
I dont like diving when there is no contact but I still dont see it as being any worse than other offences. But if a player makes the most of something when there has been contact...like on Sunday......then cest la vie.

by Diggers Mon 16 Apr 2012, 3:08 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Fair play to him I say.
See if you are saying that if another team gets a bad decision in
their favour against ManU!!

Im a Sunderland fan mate. Im talking about a general football point, not defending my club. I actually would prefer Man Utd to have lost and the title race to be closer.

by lorus59 Mon 16 Apr 2012, 3:12 pm

I am sorry Diggers, I have seen the replay many times and there is no way I can see that as a foul. Young ran into his leg and fell over. A 100% cheating dive. I am not a Man U hater either.

by Josiah Maiestas Mon 16 Apr 2012, 3:13 pm

I actually would prefer Man Utd to have lost and the title race to be closer.

Never were they going to be troubled by a McLeish team.
I'm afraid City gave this title away with the draw vs Sunderland
and the loss to Swansea!!

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