Ashley Young

First topic message reminder :

What does everyone think of todays incident ?

Newcastle United defender Ryan Taylor tweeted it was Disgraceful and that Ashley Young was the biggest cheat in the league , he has removed this now from twitter .

I dont want this to look like a Liverpool fan wumming so i will not pass judgement on an individual incident . All i will say is i hate to see diving yes even by Suarez Carroll or Gerrard i dont condone diving by anyone it is spoiling football .

Carlos Tevez was fouled yesterday and should of been awarded a penalty but instead he was booked for diving , today Ashley Young is awarded a penalty for a dubious foul . These decisions can cost titles .

Referees have a hard enough time without having to second guess wether a player has dived or if it was a foul . For me diving is cheating and needs to be stopped , harsher fines , bigger bans and maybe even points taken off teams would make clubs stop players from diving .

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

I actually would prefer Man Utd to have lost and the title race to be closer.

Never were they going to be troubled by a McLeish team.
I'm afraid City gave this title away with the draw vs Sunderland
and the loss to Swansea!!

Probably but all it takes is a win at the Etihad for City and Man Utd to draw one of their other games and thet could be it. Last day of the season at the SOL could be interesting, I reckon we could hold out for a draw, MON knows how to set up a team to defend and he likes a bit of mischief.
Im not saying its likely but its not quite over yet.
Lorus ive seen it a few times and Id say the defender left his leg, everyone has an opinion. No doubt Young made a meal of it though. I just think the ctiticism is a bit OTT.

Bottom line is that the defender left his leg out without getting the ball. The fall may have been OTT but even still, its a foul.

Can't be a foul when the player with the ball TRIES to catch the defenders leg and con
a penalty.

d260005p wrote:Bottom line is that the defender left his leg out without getting the ball. The fall may have been OTT but even still, its a foul.

So if a defender leaves out his leg and the attacker decides to run into that leg deliberately and fall over with a swan dive, it's a foul? That can't be right.

d260005p wrote:Bottom line is that the defender left his leg out without getting the ball. The fall may have been OTT but even still, its a foul.

Thing is D2, Clarke didn't leave his leg out he actually moves it out of the way but Young pushes his left leg out sideways to ensure contact is made, that isn't a foul.

The picture posted earlier in this thread shows it perfectly.

hampo171 wrote:

d260005p wrote:Bottom line is that the defender left his leg out without getting the ball. The fall may have been OTT but even still, its a foul.

Thing is D2, Clarke didn't leave his leg out he actually moves it out of the way but Young pushes his left leg out sideways to ensure contact is made, that isn't a foul.

The picture posted earlier in this thread shows it perfectly.

Its amazing how opinions differ because I look at that clip and I dont see that at all. Clarke actually has time to look at where Young is going, he has time to move his head but makes no effort to move his leg that I can see.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Can't be a foul when the player with the ball TRIES to catch the defenders leg and con
a penalty.

You're making it sound like the defender was 3 feet away, Young flung himself at him to make the contact then did a triple somersault and pike to finish. They were next to each other, Young beat the defender who left a leg out directly in Ashley's path who could undoubtedly have carried on going without being impeded but instead allowed the contact to happen and made a meal of his fall.

You can't see Young spread his legs out deliberately?

Here's a better angle.

Spoiler:

Nope, he turns inside and pushes off but Clarkes leg never moves until the impact of Young running through him. If Young turned inside which Clarke knew he had to then there was going to be contact...so he shouldnt have stuck his leg out there.

hampo171 wrote:You can't see Young spread his legs out deliberately?

Here's a better angle.

Spoiler:

I never said the 'hurling himself on the floor' element of the incident wasn't ridiculous, but equally that view only highlights that aspect (which is why it's on all the websites lobbying criticism) whereas the angle shown by Sky at pitch level from the opposite side (i.e. Young running towards the camera, not away) is a clearer indication of Clark sticking his leg out and leaving it there (until contact is made) thus supporting the view that there was a foul (if ridiculously minor).

It's the fact that the contact is minimal and fall is out of context, the actual contact isn't enough for a free kick in my opinion, the only thing that stops him carrying on is his Tom Daly impression. I don't actually believe there is any contact with the left leg at all and I haven't seen images to prove that there was.

As horrible as it is, Swansea wouldn't have gotten that decision. I've seen stone wall penalties not given this year but dives have been rewarded constantly, Bale against Arsenal was awful, Youngs against QPR, this one and Suarez against Arsenal, can't stand seeing it.

I think there was contact and I have seen way way worse penalties than that given and not just to the big clubs. The exageration of the dive makes for a talking point, funnily enough if he had just stumbled through Clarkes leg I doubt as many people would be complaining.
Ultimately if comes down to your gut feeling and people opions are decided on this one.

Youngs weight is on his right foot when he checks inside. His right foot is then clipped by Clarkes left foot. Dont look at Youngs left foot flying over Clarke. Just look at the contact. SImples

d260005p wrote:Youngs weight is on his right foot when he checks inside. His right foot is then clipped by Clarkes left foot. Dont look at Youngs left foot flying over Clarke. Just look at the contact. SImples

If I run into a brick wall there is contact. Young ran into the leg with the sole intention to get a penalty. He has previous remember.

hampo171 wrote:As horrible as it is, Swansea wouldn't have gotten that decision. I've seen stone wall penalties not given this year but dives have been rewarded constantly

United were denied stonewall penalties for handball in both this match and the Wigan game. I don't like diving but equally it's swings and roundabouts with these things.

Chelsea won the title a couple of seasons back based off a Drogba goal to beat United that was about 2-3 yards offside, without that goal the match would've been drawn and the title United's. Yesterday Chelsea were 1-0 up when the next two incidents were being awarded a goal for a ball that came nowhere near crossing the line and their keeper, as last man, fouling a striker clean through on goal which went unpunished (largely because of the good fortune of Gareth Bale chasing a seemingly lost cause).

lorus59 wrote:

d260005p wrote:Youngs weight is on his right foot when he checks inside. His right foot is then clipped by Clarkes left foot. Dont look at Youngs left foot flying over Clarke. Just look at the contact. SImples

If I run into a brick wall there is contact. Young ran into the leg with the sole intention to get a penalty. He has previous remember.

Never stumbled over a poorly laid paving slab or exposed tree root/stump then?

Diggers wrote:Strikers are the ones who get the decisions called against them as a rule though.
But ultimately its all against the rules of the game. If a player runs the ball out of touch do they ever admit it ? Strikers are always making early runs when they will often know they are offside and hope they will get away with it.
My point is cheating is effectively part of the game in football, I doubt 5 minutes goes by without some kind of infringement that the player will be hoping he gets away with.
If a midfielder cynically takes out someone who beats him it just seen as professional. Why doesnt that get as much stick as diving ?

Because that is good old English mans cheating, diving and moaning is for foreign ponces.

Barry bannan did the most cheating in this game, hacking carrick down on a break away.

Young is a diver and has been at whatever club he's been at - people have missed the boat only complaining about him now.

Chelsea won the title a couple of seasons back based off a Drogba goal to beat United that was about 2-3 yards offside

Hernandez also scored after the ball hits his hand, which you conveniently
leave out.
Both these teams are obviously involved in bribing refs anyway.

Ashley Young went down a bit too easy as SAF said. However due to the fact he plays for Utd it was always going to be an incident that would be magnified unlike others. It is expected that SAF would probably have a quiet word with him and hopefully his exaggerations will stop.

dondelero wrote:Ashley Young went down a bit too easy as SAF said. However due to the fact he plays for Utd it was always going to be an incident that would be magnified unlike others. It is expected that SAF would probably have a quiet word with him and hopefully his exaggerations will stop.

You think Dalglish hasn't told Suarez to stop diving? Or Chelsea managers not telling Drogba?

Young always dives when there's a little opportunity!!

id suggest watching football on sky, gary neville being surprisingly wise

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Chelsea won the title a couple of seasons back based off a Drogba goal to beat United that was about 2-3 yards offside

Hernandez also scored after the ball hits his hand, which you conveniently
leave out.
Both these teams are obviously involved in bribing refs anyway.

'obviously' = re.tard.

Either way, simply proves my swings and roundabout theory.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Chelsea won the title a couple of seasons back based off a Drogba goal to beat United that was about 2-3 yards offside

Hernandez also scored after the ball hits his hand, which you conveniently
leave out.
Both these teams are obviously involved in bribing refs anyway.

'obviously' = re.tard.

Either way, simply proves my swings and roundabout theory.

You are a poor WUM with no real football knowledge.

Not really, you can't back up anything you say. That's wummery.

Lets try and not get personal guys . opinions and perspective on things will differ

These discussions just made me remember when Eduardo came back from his leg break last season, jumped out of the way of a tackle, didn't appeal and was awarded a pen and was branded as the worse form of Diver and vilified by the press.

But Young dives twice (and it's ridiculous to say yes there was contact, as there was barely any and certainly not enough for someone to go down) and people seem to be saying "fair enough everyone does it and if you don't then you don't get a pen - essentially punishing your team" - which is very true but doesn't really justify the act and it is a suprise that when even the manager admits that the players cheated that the press aren't up in arms about it as they usually are about diving

Smirnoffpriest wrote:But Young dives twice (and it's ridiculous to say yes there was contact, as there was barely any

Little bit of a contradiction there.

Anyhoo, being able to deceive the referee is celebrated on the contentant....how long before our attitudes change do you think?

I also think Ashley Young is being helped by the fact he is English.

I think if Ashley Young had performed (and they were performances) those two dives 6 months apart rather than petty much consecutive games it'd barely get a mention. G Nev on MNF showed a clip of Lampard doing an IDENTICAL dive earlier in the season against Stoke. Funnily enough nobody's talking about it.....

I hope Fergie sells this fool in the summer money wasted on the overrated headless chicken...Dont need him have far better players in Nani and Valencia.

Need more than 2 wingers though. His goals contribution is ok, worth having on the bench when, as he sometimes does, Nani has a game when it just isn't working.

I would of preferred Young to Downing at Liverpool .

https://p.twimg.com/Aloaj1zCIAECTcK.jpg:large

I'd say racism is far more evil than anything else on that list. And, more importantly, many other footballers have done similar things to those whereas racism is something that everybody is (should be) trying to stamp out of the game.

it isnt hypocrsy at all- silly poster- and by the way i am a palace fan- that idiot deserved a good kicking- cantona my fav all time player and character

The palace fan? Not sure what happened, maybe he deserved to be kicked for what he said, but you can't defend Keane's attack on Haaland, he should've been banned for life.

I'd say racism is far more evil than anything else on that list.

I'd say Evra has said far worse than anything Suarez said to him. But of course, Evra is a Man U player, so you would say that.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

dondelero wrote:Ashley Young went down a bit too easy as SAF said. However due to the fact he plays for Utd it was always going to be an incident that would be magnified unlike others. It is expected that SAF would probably have a quiet word with him and hopefully his exaggerations will stop.

You think Dalglish hasn't told Suarez to stop diving? Or Chelsea managers not telling Drogba?

Young always dives when there's a little opportunity!!

"always dives" is a bit strong. Does KD along with Chelsea managers tell their players to stop diving who knows. But SAF for sure will speak with him. By the way it was Macheda that scored Utd's goal in the Chelsea defeat with Chelsea's offside goal. It reminds us of a goal Terry Henry scored against Utd in the early noughties where he was probably about 5 yards offside.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:The palace fan? Not sure what happened, maybe he deserved to be kicked for what he said, but you can't defend Keane's attack on Haaland, he should've been banned for life.

he spat at him..

no i cant defend keanes attck- however racism is on another level

Swinging an elbow is far more dangerous than what Keane did, people just get up in arms about it because he waited and waited for the chance to do it.

premeditated - thats the problem- but that stuff happens. its what blokes do occasionally, stupid all the same.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

I'd say racism is far more evil than anything else on that list.

I'd say Evra has said far worse than anything Suarez said to him. But of course, Evra is a Man U player, so you would say that.

Again, do you have anything to remotely back that baloney up??

mystiroakey wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:The palace fan? Not sure what happened, maybe he deserved to be kicked for what he said, but you can't defend Keane's attack on Haaland, he should've been banned for life.

he spat at him..

no i cant defend keanes attck- however racism is on another level

And hurled racist abuse at him. Which is the real irony/hypocrisy to that poster.

Anyone happen to see Drogba last night? Wow. Why dont people start a thread up about that diver??????????

I actually think that may have been tactical. It looked disgraceful at first but the more the game wore on the more I wondered whether it was actually very intelligent play from Drogba playing as a lone striker. Barca are very hard to play against as you tend to see very little of the ball and do all the chasing, that's exhausting and all Drogba's play acting gave his team-mates regular breathers and time to reposition (which again, the way Barca play and pull teams around, is helpful).

Notice when ever he held the ball up successfully he didn't go down, it was only when he lost control that he did.

Yes it was play-acting/diving, but I actually think it was intelligent play. Though maybe I'm giving the Drog way to much credit........

To be consistent though, he needs to be called for cheating and bending the rules, just as Young was.

It may be 'intelligent' because it gave Chelsea an advantage, but then Young's play is also 'intelligent' because it won a penalty.

Rather than calling any play such as this 'intelligent' I prefer to call it 'cheating' because that's exactly what it is, and it ruins games for me. I hate to watch players like Drogba do things like that, it turns me off the game.

yeh, you're right, I just remember feeling (shamefully) impressed!

Hmmm? Did Drogba's exaggerations result in any penalties for the home team? No.. that is what put Man U in the lead for the Villa match. Comparing the two is idiotic as Drogba's acting didn't give Chels the goals.

Did anyone see Gary Neville on SkySports news today trying to defend players for diving and trying to give their teams an unfair advantage , absolutley ridiculous

KingKenny7Heaven wrote:Did anyone see Gary Neville on SkySports news today trying to defend players for diving and trying to give their teams an unfair advantage , absolutley ridiculous

Eh? I saw him on SS for MNF not exactly defending them but not critcising them either. His main argument was against retrospective punishment where he gave several examples of players penalised for diving when actually they hadn't. His point was, where do you stop with retrospective punishment? Can you take a goal away? Can you undo a card?