The Titanic and my best wishes to Ulster.

First topic message reminder :

The media have gone into overdrive on the tragedy a hundred years ago.

Much of this is mawkish and in the case of the Belfast Titanic Museum, cynical commercialism.

But at the root of it the Harland and Wolff was a deeply sectarian organisation which was in no way the last reason for the problems in northern Ireland in the 20th century.

That is why I want Ulster to do well. A side which spans the both the divide and the Irish nations to win the HEC in this centenary year would be welcome by pretty much every neutral (I hope).

Mickado wrote:I suppose people have a problem with you bringing up NEO-Agnosticism.

Why the need to remind people that things weren’t always this good, and then stamp your feet and try to get the thread back “on topic” i.e. please stop talking about Ulster rugby in general and talk about how things weren’t always as inclusive as they are today.

I don't really

See - https://www.606v2.com/t27236-does-anyone-else-still-mourn-the-demise-of-the-old-scrumv-board#1143276

That platform would have allowed the OP and subsequent tangential posts to co-exist without any problem.

Portnoy wrote:All I'm celebrating is the neo-agnosticism of Irish/Ulster rugby. Plus its apoliticism.

Your opening post is so incredibly vague it could mean many things, I think you know that. What we resent is the need to put this team's potential future success in the context of your own peculiar views on our society. We would rather just talk about this team as a rugby team, which is all it is after all. And celebrate it's achievements as such.

We get a lot of people who define everything that happens in NI by the yardstick of societal conflict. Even celebrating positive stories that don't fit neatly into that category as being somehow 'steps forward' for us is frustrating and very patronising- there's really no difference between our team and any other in Europe, nor would there be any more social significance to our success than anyone elses. To make that link requires a mindset which views everything that happens here through the lens of the Troubles. And we've enough people within the country who do that already.

Don't cheer for us because of your notions of what Northern Ireland is or isn't or what you think Ulster Rugby represents within NI and Ulster in general. Cheer for us because you like the way we play the game, or if you prefer our opponents cheer for them. Either of those two options is much more palatable than the first.

roddersm wrote:I'm actually not sure that rugby wasn't always inclusive in NI anyways, certainly in my limited experience, which dates back to the tale end of the troubles.

All sports would claim to be inclusive (and make efforts to do so). Thing is that even if you don't practice any religion, you are going to be culturally a protestant/catholic/muslim etc. and outside of your own particular culture you are going to feel a bit alienated.

Notch, I think its how we all love the Germans to win in football because they don't practice that ethnic cleansing anymore. . . .

Notch wrote:
Don't cheer for us because of your notions of what Northern Ireland is or isn't or what you think Ulster Rugby represents within NI and Ulster in general. Cheer for us because you like the way we play the game, or if you prefer our opponents cheer for them. Either of those two options is much more palatable than the first.

I actually don't care why people like us or don't like us provided it is based on reality.

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:I'm actually not sure that rugby wasn't always inclusive in NI anyways, certainly in my limited experience, which dates back to the tale end of the troubles.

All sports would claim to be inclusive (and make efforts to do so). Thing is that even if you don't practice any religion, you are going to be culturally a protestant/catholic/muslim etc. and outside of your own particular culture you are going to feel a bit alienated.

I have no idea what the point is that you are trying to make above but I would suggest to you that it doesn't apply any more or less to Ulster rugby than it does to Munster or any other sporting organisation in the Western developed world.

red_stag wrote:Notch, I think its how we all love the Germans to win in football because they don't practice that ethnic cleansing anymore. . . .

red_stag wrote:Notch, I think its how we all love the Germans to win in football because they don't practice that ethnic cleansing anymore. . . .

Indeed! Very good.

Bollix. Notch.

I OPed a celebration of Irish rugby and peace in a context which celebrated apoliticical asectarian attitudes to rugby.

And I object to it being hi-jacked for a Holly Wilaboobie-for-tat foreign players debate.

If that is what was required, then a new Article should have been raised as it is completely off-topic.

C'mon Ulster - Non-sectarian Ulster rugby!

roddersm wrote:I'm actually not sure that rugby wasn't always inclusive in NI anyways, certainly in my limited experience, which dates back to the tale end of the troubles.

Sadly Rodders I go back a quarter of a century further than you and I can not make this claim for the earlier period.

However as you say since the beginning of the Professional era there has been a fundamental sea change and anyone practising religious, sectarian or national intolerance in Ulster rugby club would be booted out of the club by Humphreys and Logan - and I mean anybody. I would be applying my boot up the backside with them.

For the record a player left us in the last three years for that very reason - totally inappropriate comments on facebook/twitter - left within a month of posting.

Portnoys, if you're going to stomp your feet because Irish posters don't stick to the topic I suggest you avoid making posts of any nature about Irish teams because this is an inevitable consequence and will happen every single time.

Sin do you think that the slogan:

"Irish by birth, Munster by the Grace of God"

is inappropriate because it is potentially offensive to Non-Christians?

geoff998rugby wrote:

roddersm wrote:I'm actually not sure that rugby wasn't always inclusive in NI anyways, certainly in my limited experience, which dates back to the tale end of the troubles.

Sadly Rodders I go back a quarter of a century further than you and I can not make this claim for the earlier period.

However as you say since the beginning of the Professional era there has been a fundamental sea change and anyone practising religious, sectarian or national intolerance in Ulster rugby club would be booted out of the club by Humphreys and Logan - and I mean anybody. I would be applying my boot up the backside with them.

For the record a player left us in the last three years for that very reason - totally inappropriate comments on facebook/twitter - left within a month of posting.

Was it a fullback?

A young man with a fondness for highlights perhaps? Best to keep names out of it

Yeh, thought that so i tried to be a bit more ambigious by suggesting his position :p

ortnoys, if you're going to stomp your feet because Irish posters don't stick to the topic I suggest you avoid making posts of any nature about Irish teams because this is an inevitable consequence and will happen every single time.

Notch,
If I were to cease posting or writing about any topic non-English or non-Tigers would it then not be only to reinforce the 'English arrogance' stereotype?

Damned if we do. Damned if we don't...

Sorry to hear that Geoff. I was referring more to grass roots level. Any teams I was involved in at schoolboy and Junior level were always mixed and religiously inclusive, to varying degrees, and sectarianism never made it on to any pitch I played on, even if it sadly existed off it.

Notch wrote:A young man with a fondness for highlights perhaps? Best to keep names out of it

I think if you go that far then you may as well give the name of the player lest the reputation of every hilighted ex Ulster fullback be tarnished.....

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:I'm actually not sure that rugby wasn't always inclusive in NI anyways, certainly in my limited experience, which dates back to the tale end of the troubles.

All sports would claim to be inclusive (and make efforts to do so). Thing is that even if you don't practice any religion, you are going to be culturally a protestant/catholic/muslim etc. and outside of your own particular culture you are going to feel a bit alienated.

I have no idea what the point is that you are trying to make above but I would suggest to you that it doesn't apply any more or less to Ulster rugby than it does to Munster or any other sporting organisation in the Western developed world.

I think you are paranoid. Of course that applies everywhere, not just Ulster. Did you not see where I mentioned Muslim - not too many of them playing rugby, let alone playing in Ulster.

Chances are an ulster lad (culturally a protestant) would find the Munster dressing room a bit different because the topic of conversation would be about the GAA which he would probably have little experience of and most of that would have been negative.

Similar with a lad from Munster in the Ulster dressing room - the thoughts that the captain might want to set up a bible group wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

you know theres a season run-in we could be talking about....

I'd find it more interesting to read than this waste of time.

Portnoy wrote:

ortnoys, if you're going to stomp your feet because Irish posters don't stick to the topic I suggest you avoid making posts of any nature about Irish teams because this is an inevitable consequence and will happen every single time.

Notch,
If I were to cease posting or writing about any topic non-English or non-Tigers would it then not be only to reinforce the 'English arrogance' stereotype?

Damned if we do. Damned if we don't...

Portnoy I think he's trying to say that every Irish thread goes way off topic multiple times. Then they go off topic on the off topic part. So if you don't like threads going off topic, you should avoid Irish ones. Rabbiting on endlessly about anything and everything is what we do. Staying on topic isn't a talent we possess.

That's exactly what I'm saying. We're talkers by nature and we'll go off on a massive tangent at the drop of a hat. It's just the way we are.

So post away, but don't be frustrated if the conversation quickly turns into something entirely unrelated to the OP. Because it happens in almost every other Irish thread.

Sin é wrote:
Chances are an ulster lad (culturally a protestant) would find the Munster dressing room a bit different because the topic of conversation would be about the GAA which he would probably have little experience of and most of that would have been negative.

Similar with a lad from Munster in the Ulster dressing room - the thoughts that the captain might want to set up a bible group wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

Why do you assume that an Ulster lad would be culturally a protestant? You realise the GAA exists up here too?

Provided the bible reading group is optional I wouldn't see a problem. Besides don't Catholics (assuming of course that the Munster player is culturally a Catholic ) believe in the Bible?

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:I'm actually not sure that rugby wasn't always inclusive in NI anyways, certainly in my limited experience, which dates back to the tale end of the troubles.

All sports would claim to be inclusive (and make efforts to do so). Thing is that even if you don't practice any religion, you are going to be culturally a protestant/catholic/muslim etc. and outside of your own particular culture you are going to feel a bit alienated.

I have no idea what the point is that you are trying to make above but I would suggest to you that it doesn't apply any more or less to Ulster rugby than it does to Munster or any other sporting organisation in the Western developed world.

I think you are paranoid. Of course that applies everywhere, not just Ulster. Did you not see where I mentioned Muslim - not too many of them playing rugby, let alone playing in Ulster.

Chances are an ulster lad (culturally a protestant) would find the Munster dressing room a bit different because the topic of conversation would be about the GAA which he would probably have little experience of and most of that would have been negative.

Similar with a lad from Munster in the Ulster dressing room - the thoughts that the captain might want to set up a bible group wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Portnoy wrote:

ortnoys, if you're going to stomp your feet because Irish posters don't stick to the topic I suggest you avoid making posts of any nature about Irish teams because this is an inevitable consequence and will happen every single time.

Notch,
If I were to cease posting or writing about any topic non-English or non-Tigers would it then not be only to reinforce the 'English arrogance' stereotype?

Damned if we do. Damned if we don't...

Portnoy I think he's trying to say that every Irish thread goes way off topic multiple times. Then they go off topic on the off topic part. So if you don't like threads going off topic, you should avoid Irish ones. Rabbiting on endlessly about anything and everything is what we do. Staying on topic isn't a talent we possess.

You speak for yourself sir!
Some of us are very very good at remaining absolutely on topic and I resent the insinuation that we can not!

I was just saying the other day, on that thread about the RWC, how the influence of the Battle of Hastings on the selection policy in Ulster's HEC squad has been hugely exaggerated by many!

Pot Hale wrote:Eh - Stonehenge is in south-east England.... a bit far.

Last time I looked Wiltshire was in South-West England so it's not as far as you think

This thread is quite an amusing read.

Notch wrote:That's exactly what I'm saying. We're talkers by nature and we'll go off on a massive tangent at the drop of a hat. It's just the way we are.

So post away, but don't be frustrated if the conversation quickly turns into something entirely unrelated to the OP. Because it happens in almost every other Irish thread.

Why is Bulmers called Magners in the UK anyway? I'm pretty sure it's the same drink. So why does it have two different names?

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Notch wrote:That's exactly what I'm saying. We're talkers by nature and we'll go off on a massive tangent at the drop of a hat. It's just the way we are.

So post away, but don't be frustrated if the conversation quickly turns into something entirely unrelated to the OP. Because it happens in almost every other Irish thread.

Why is Bulmers called Magners in the UK anyway? I'm pretty sure it's the same drink. So why does it have two different names?

It’s only Bulmers in Ireland because there’s already a Bulmers in England. But they both put ice in with the cider, which is unusual.
How come nobody in England can pour a proper pint of more to the point.

Portnoy,

I was willing to over look your little mention of our past as well meaning if somewhat illimformed as opposed to devisive.

I suppose you might understand how we feel if you imagine that someone had written an article congratulating the Tiggers and expressing their support of a team that has been forward enough looking that it includes black players!

Might you not think that reference to be a little unnecessary?

It's a strange one that. There are two brands of cider called Bulmers, on Irish and one English. Inside the RoI the Irish Bulmers markets itself as such. But outside the RoI it can't due to conflict with the English Bulmers. Hence the brand name Magners.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Notch wrote:That's exactly what I'm saying. We're talkers by nature and we'll go off on a massive tangent at the drop of a hat. It's just the way we are.

So post away, but don't be frustrated if the conversation quickly turns into something entirely unrelated to the OP. Because it happens in almost every other Irish thread.

Why is Bulmers called Magners in the UK anyway? I'm pretty sure it's the same drink. So why does it have two different names?

The drink Irish Mist had to be rebranded in Germany. The German word "mist" is a slang term for a poopie and the drink wasn't selling.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Notch wrote:That's exactly what I'm saying. We're talkers by nature and we'll go off on a massive tangent at the drop of a hat. It's just the way we are.

So post away, but don't be frustrated if the conversation quickly turns into something entirely unrelated to the OP. Because it happens in almost every other Irish thread.

Why is Bulmers called Magners in the UK anyway? I'm pretty sure it's the same drink. So why does it have two different names?

It isn't. I thought Bulmers was a seperate brand and Magners bought them out recently. Pretty sure you can get Magners in the UK as well. Actually yeah I started drinking it in Edinburgh last year and my fridge is full of the stuff....

Don't Guinness own Murphys stout?

red_stag wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Notch wrote:That's exactly what I'm saying. We're talkers by nature and we'll go off on a massive tangent at the drop of a hat. It's just the way we are.

So post away, but don't be frustrated if the conversation quickly turns into something entirely unrelated to the OP. Because it happens in almost every other Irish thread.

Why is Bulmers called Magners in the UK anyway? I'm pretty sure it's the same drink. So why does it have two different names?

The drink Irish Mist had to be rebranded in Germany. The German word "mist" is a slang term for a poopie and the drink wasn't selling.

I’m convinced that’s what Jif had to change it’s name to Cif.

Sin é wrote:

I think you are paranoid. Of course that applies everywhere, not just Ulster. Did you not see where I mentioned Muslim - not too many of them playing rugby, let alone playing in Ulster.

Chances are an ulster lad (culturally a protestant) would find the Munster dressing room a bit different because the topic of conversation would be about the GAA which he would probably have little experience of and most of that would have been negative.

Similar with a lad from Munster in the Ulster dressing room - the thoughts that the captain might want to set up a bible group wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

Sin, I went to see Pienaar/Muller talk about this stuff a month or two ago. They both said they would never walk around with a bible in their hands preaching, or ever force anything onto someone. The christians within Ulster have prayer/study groups, and it is an open invitation, but that isn't even to do with rugby, that is outside of the game. Why would the captain set up a bible group in the dressing room? That simply does not happen. It is no secret they have these groups outside of the game, but they don't force anyone to come. Whoever wants to join them, or ask them any questions, does so. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that.

As for someone up north having a problem with people talking about GAA, why would they? It would take a pretty intolerable person to have a problem with that as well. Plus as rodders said, do you think people up here don't play it?

Has anyone been watching The Voice? I kinda like it. Better than X-Factor anyway. But now the blind auditions are over, so it will be interesting to see what happens next...

Will I Am seems like a really nice bloke.

I’m convinced that’s what Jif had to change it’s name to Cif.

Correct.

Alright folks lets hear it; Marmite, yes or no? I personally can't stand the stuff.

Except on twiglets. But they make me violent.

BoyneRFC wrote:

I’m convinced that’s what Jif had to change it’s name to Cif.

Correct.

What was the word and what language was it in? I imagine Jif as meaning spooge somewhere in Eastern Europe.

Two time all-Ireland winner in my family and I'm from Ulster

Mickado wrote:

BoyneRFC wrote:

I’m convinced that’s what Jif had to change it’s name to Cif.

Correct.

What was the word and what language was it in? I imagine Jif as meaning spooge somewhere in Eastern Europe.

Scarlet fans got upset because they thought everyone was making fun of J Davies!

Mickado wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Notch wrote:That's exactly what I'm saying. We're talkers by nature and we'll go off on a massive tangent at the drop of a hat. It's just the way we are.

So post away, but don't be frustrated if the conversation quickly turns into something entirely unrelated to the OP. Because it happens in almost every other Irish thread.

Why is Bulmers called Magners in the UK anyway? I'm pretty sure it's the same drink. So why does it have two different names?

The drink Irish Mist had to be rebranded in Germany. The German word "mist" is a slang term for a poopie and the drink wasn't selling.

I’m convinced that’s what Jif had to change it’s name to Cif.

I remember what I perceived as a racist advert when it changed over suggesting it was because Asian people couldn't pronounce the word "Jif" and therefore the company changed it to Cif.

Jaffa Cakes – your days are numbered…

clivemcl wrote:Has anyone been watching The Voice? I kinda like it. Better than X-Factor anyway. But now the blind auditions are over, so it will be interesting to see what happens next...

Will I Am seems like a really nice bloke.

But the way the big black music teacher was the last audition and Will I Am trusted his 'gut' all seemed a little hard to swallow. What do we think? Is it all scripted? Good tv nonetheless.

In other news, I have a mini daschund pup. She peed on our sofa last night.

Apparently Snickers is the best selling chocolate bar in the world and it owes a lot to its rebranding from when it used to be Marathon.

Always wondered how 'Old feckin Irish Whiskey' gets away with it.

Portnoy, welcome to an Irish discussion thread.

Here is a question . . . .there are no Irish moderators or administrators. Why are none of us considered trustworthy.

clivemcl wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Has anyone been watching The Voice? I kinda like it. Better than X-Factor anyway. But now the blind auditions are over, so it will be interesting to see what happens next...

Will I Am seems like a really nice bloke.

But the way the big black music teacher was the last audition and Will I Am trusted his 'gut' all seemed a little hard to swallow. What do we think? Is it all scripted? Good tv nonetheless.

In other news, I have a mini daschund pup. She peed on our sofa last night.

The Irish version started good but went to sh1t after they started the live versions. All of the judges sang "wake up" by Arcade Fire and I nearly turned inside out with the cringe.

Notch wrote:Alright folks lets hear it; Marmite, yes or no? I personally can't stand the stuff.

Except on twiglets. But they make me violent.

Depends. English Marmite NZ Marmite

Of course, most NZers are having to ration their stocks of black gold, the NZ Marmite factory is closed until July due to earthquake damage

red_stag wrote:Portnoy, welcome to an Irish discussion thread.

Here is a question . . . .there are no Irish moderators or administrators. Why are none of us considered trustworthy.

Because the rules state you are not allowed to belong to a terrorist organisation, and we are all most definatly either in the UVF or the IRA.

Or the Southern Media Mafia that terrorises Ulster fans