The Titanic and my best wishes to Ulster.

First topic message reminder :

The media have gone into overdrive on the tragedy a hundred years ago.

Much of this is mawkish and in the case of the Belfast Titanic Museum, cynical commercialism.

But at the root of it the Harland and Wolff was a deeply sectarian organisation which was in no way the last reason for the problems in northern Ireland in the 20th century.

That is why I want Ulster to do well. A side which spans the both the divide and the Irish nations to win the HEC in this centenary year would be welcome by pretty much every neutral (I hope).

Mrs P it is my experience that those who travel with an open mind open their mind even wider after their travels.

Those that travel with a close mind close their minds even more after their travels.

I think we are seeing that here.

roddersm wrote:It might interest you to know Sin that Ulsters strength and conditioning coach is a fellow Munster man:

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/10401.php

Clearly he doesn't have a problem with the place.

I know that - and jerry flannery is giving him hell on twitter for being a traitor with his #occupyjudas campaign!

https://twitter.com/#!/jerryflannery

roddersm wrote:I'm not jumping to any conclusion Sin. You've used your experience which you gained via this organisation to justify the comments you've been making in this thread, which clearly don't paint NI or Ulster as a particularly attractive place for anyone who isn't a devout Christian.

Where in Ulster have you actually been and how long ago were these visits?

Your twisting my words rods - not very christian about you.

I don't care what religion anyone practices - I just wouldn't have anything in common with people whose lives were centred around religion.

I don't think religion should be anywhere near the workplace because that may make some people uncomfortable.

[quote="geoff999rugby"]

Sin é wrote: I wouldn't touch a job where a lot of the staff were heavy into bible readings, religion etc. I'd go for the job that had no religious affiliations.

Ulster has no religous affiliations.

It seems to have a strong christian ethos. I don't ever recall every reading an article about a rugby club that centred around the christian beliefs of a sizeable number of players.

So you dont feel comfortable with people of a different view point from yourself - for someone who claims to have a bit of experienced of the world I find that depressing.

I'll say it again, I prefer to keep my faith private and defintely out of the workplace.

Ulster has players who are teetotal and into their religion - Pienaer, Spence, Muller, Trimble, Humphreys etc
Ulster has players who like to go out and have a few drinks - Bowe, Stevenson, Best, Ferris, Wallace etc

There is no problem with them working together they are comfortable with that.

Lots of players are tee-total (or certainly don't drink much). I doubt if its a huge issue not drinking for most. Maybe all those players are used to living in NI now.

For record in my 57 years I have spend half outside Northern Ireland - lived in Southern Ireland, England, Australia and USA.
I have worked for an Indian company, an American company, an Australian company, played in a five a side soccer team where I was the only white skinned individual. I work for a multi national company now.
Traveled extensively - visited every continent except Antartica.
I reckon I can claim to have seen a bit of the world.

Well then, you must have heard about the debate down here about the removal of the catholic influence from public schools. Some parents do not want their children going to denominational schools.

Take people as you find them and to say you would not want to work with people because of their religious or cultural beliefs I find very depressing.

I find it even more depressing that in this day and age you don't see that some people might not be comfortable in such an environment.

Sin é wrote:
Your twisting my words rods - not very christian about you.

Sin you crack me up man!

Doesn't Paul O'Connell bless himself when he runs on to the Thomond pitch before games? I suppose you'll be complaining to Munster branch about that as well?

"I don't care what religion anyone practices - I just wouldn't have anything in common with people whose lives were centred around religion."

Nothing?

You are sure of that?

That might be one of the most biased things I have ever read!

In the context of a professional rugby team I'm sure we could think of at least one thing they might all have in common.

It's good to talk and not bottle it up don't you think?

Sin, you seem to believe that Ulster Rugby is an environment centred around some sort of christian fundamentalist view point. Though it's been explained to you that this is not the case, you persist in believing it... what can I even say to this?

There are many current players in Ulster who would not be religious in any way. It would seem that they are all very happy. A lot of current players talk about what a tight-knit group the current Ulster squad is, how well everyone gets on together. I don't think this would be possible if religion were an issue.

You've created this issue in your head and convinced yourself of something that is at best a skewed version of reality. Can't you see that?

Portnoy ya stirring bollix! Thats 20 years of peace and reconciliation down the pan with this thread!

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Your twisting my words rods - not very christian about you.

Sin you crack me up man!

Doesn't Paul O'Connell bless himself when he runs on to the Thomond pitch before games? I suppose you'll be complaining to Munster branch about that as well?

I'm all for it if it attracts some world class religious zealots rugby players to Munster

Touche sin old bean touche!

Notch wrote:Sin, you seem to believe that Ulster Rugby is an environment centred around some sort of christian fundamentalist view point. Though it's been explained to you that this is not the case, you persist in believing it... what can I even say to this?

There are many current players in Ulster who would not be religious in any way. It would seem that they are all very happy. A lot of current players talk about what a tight-knit group the current Ulster squad is, how well everyone gets on together. I don't think this would be possible if religion were an issue.

You've created this issue in your head and convinced yourself of something that is at best a skewed version of reality. Can't you see that?

Sure they are a tight group because the vast majority are of that view and they have two things in common - rugby & religion. Thats fine. But don't be wondering why you won't attract less religious minded players to Ulster.

Sin é wrote:I wouldn't touch a job where a lot of the staff were heavy into bible readings, religion etc.

Understandable. Have you thought about changing your name?

But we do have a lot of less religious minded players at Ulster who are very happy here, thats my point. In fact I would say you're wrong- there are more people who aren't 'religiously minded' in the squad than those that are. And it's apparent there's no divide between them either...

Notch wrote:But we do have a lot of less religious minded players at Ulster who are very happy here, thats my point. In fact I would say you're wrong- there are more people who aren't 'religiously minded' in the squad than those that are. And it's apparent there's no divide between them either...

You haven't a clue what they think.

But you do?

The Great Aukster wrote:

Sin é wrote:I wouldn't touch a job where a lot of the staff were heavy into bible readings, religion etc.

Understandable. Have you thought about changing your name?

Should I?

Notch wrote:But you do?

I have enough of a clue to know that it would not be every players cup of tea (and conversely some players dream job).

Yet you have been given substantial evidence that suggests that there is no such problem for the players?

Sin é wrote: It seems to have a strong christian ethos. I don't ever recall every reading an article about a rugby club that centred around the christian beliefs of a sizeable number of players.

Ulster rugby club does not centre around a number of players with a christian ethos it is a rugby club where a number of the players happen to be practising christians - that is a very different think. Many (most ?) of the Ulster squad are not practising Christians.

Sin é wrote:Well then, you must have heard about the debate down here about the removal of the catholic influence from public schools. Some parents do not want their children going to denominational schools.

I am indeed aware of the debate around the influence of the Catholic church in schools and I agree with those parents who want it removed. I do not see that in any way equatable with the fact that a significant number of Ulster rugby players are practising christians.

Take people as you find them and to say you would not want to work with people because of their religious or cultural beliefs I find very depressing.

Sin é wrote:I find it even more depressing that in this day and age you don't see that some people might not be comfortable in such an environment.

I can see that some people are not comfortable in a particular environment but with due respect thats their problem. I would never deny the right of someone to talk about their beliefs provided they are not trying to convert me to their way of thinking - trust me the Ulster boys do not do that. I do prefer to be in an open environment where people talk freely about their attitudes to life and do not have a problem agreeing to differ. That is what it is like at Ulster rugby club

Notch wrote:But you do?

Now thats what I call a stalemate.

Besides, what are you saying they would have a problem with anyway? The fact some of their teammates are christians?

maestegmafia wrote:Talking of the Titanic it is imperative to know that of all the travesty and lost lives so much good came from it. The basics of the Maratime Collision Regulations of which rule number 1 is that it is imperative that a call to rescue be answered beyond all other duties at sea, the understanding of the benefits of having permanent Radio operators monitoring radio channels for safety and accident, even the calls of MAYDAY, PAN PAN and Securite were devised as a result of the Titanic sinking.

The results of which have no doubt saved millions and millions of lives at sea since 1912.

Well said Maesteg. So true. It changed everything and did save and protect so many lives after it. A positive from a tragic negative.

roddersm wrote:Sin do you think that the slogan:

"Irish by birth, Munster by the Grace of God"

is inappropriate because it is potentially offensive to Non-Christians?

Rodders - surely the slogan is inappropriate because it alienates everyone from outside Munster. Why would anyone want to go there when they can never be accepted as part of that inner circle?

The Great Aukster wrote:

roddersm wrote:Sin do you think that the slogan:

"Irish by birth, Munster by the Grace of God"

is inappropriate because it is potentially offensive to Non-Christians?

Rodders - surely the slogan is inappropriate because it alienates everyone from outside Munster. Why would anyone want to go there when they can never be accepted as part of that inner circle?

Not everyone has the taste and class (not no mention the pride and honesty) to find their sister quite so attractive.

red_stag wrote:Botha was clearly not Ulsters most significant signing. What nonsense.

I would say that Ruan Pienaar set the standard.

+1.
He has dragged them up to the next level, by the shirt-tails imo. HE makes all the differ(especially with IHumph in situ). Afoa is next in importance to Ulster. Then Ferris.

Portnoy wrote:It's good to talk and not bottle it up don't you think?

Ooh Portnoy, I love you man.

In answer to your post, Yes, I think its healthier. The deeply buried unsaid is far more dangerous.

red_stag wrote:Did you see that terrorist organisation Al Quadah are plotting to murder Jedward.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Islamic-terrorists-threaten-attack-on-Irish-Jedward-and-other-Eurovision-competitors-147428275.html

Do you have a number for them Stag? I want to contribute in the interests of music and sanity...

I blame the parents meself.

Sin you're winding us up. Why don't you use your talents against the other nationalities on here like a normal wum. Why do you have to do it to us all the time?

This is the best thread in yonks, haven't laughed out loud so much in a while.

Take a bow Portnoy and Sin

I have to say, Sin is definitely one of my favourite posters on here he just cracks me up. Would miss him if he ever stopped posting!

God forbid that should happen Rory....oh wait should I have said that!

Notch wrote:Sin, you seem to believe that Ulster Rugby is an environment centred around some sort of christian fundamentalist view point. Though it's been explained to you that this is not the case, you persist in believing it... what can I even say to this?

There are many current players in Ulster who would not be religious in any way. It would seem that they are all very happy. A lot of current players talk about what a tight-knit group the current Ulster squad is, how well everyone gets on together. I don't think this would be possible if religion were an issue.

You've created this issue in your head and convinced yourself of something that is at best a skewed version of reality. Can't you see that?

SUN headline...

ULSTER RUGBY IN PRESBYTERIAN CULT SHOCKER!

Aw man I'm fighting back the tears here!

Feckless Rogue wrote:Sin you're winding us up. Why don't you use your talents against the other nationalities on here like a normal wum. Why do you have to do it to us all the time?

Cos it obviously works my man. Its a bit like Donal Lin-a-hen. Tremenjous but boring.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

roddersm wrote:Sin do you think that the slogan:

"Irish by birth, Munster by the Grace of God"

is inappropriate because it is potentially offensive to Non-Christians?

Rodders - surely the slogan is inappropriate because it alienates everyone from outside Munster. Why would anyone want to go there when they can never be accepted as part of that inner circle?

Not everyone has the taste and class (not no mention the pride and honesty) to find their sister quite so attractive.

Sweet, Jen. Sweet, man.

[quote="geoff999rugby"]

Sin é wrote: It seems to have a strong christian ethos. I don't ever recall every reading an article about a rugby club that centred around the christian beliefs of a sizeable number of players.

Ulster rugby club does not centre around a number of players with a christian ethos it is a rugby club where a number of the players happen to be practising christians - that is a very different think. Many (most ?) of the Ulster squad are not practising Christians.

Sin é wrote:Well then, you must have heard about the debate down here about the removal of the catholic influence from public schools. Some parents do not want their children going to denominational schools.

I am indeed aware of the debate around the influence of the Catholic church in schools and I agree with those parents who want it removed. I do not see that in any way equatable with the fact that a significant number of Ulster rugby players are practising christians.

Take people as you find them and to say you would not want to work with people because of their religious or cultural beliefs I find very depressing.

Sin é wrote:I find it even more depressing that in this day and age you don't see that some people might not be comfortable in such an environment.

Look, how do you think non-Christian would feel about all of this? They talk of having communal prayers in the dressing room back in SA. How comfortable would a jew feel in that situation if it was to happen in the Ulster dressing room?

I used be in a (sporting) club that used to have a mass for deceased members every year (which was publicised by the club). People objected to it because they siad the club was non-denominational and shouldn't be organising religious services.

I can see that some people are not comfortable in a particular environment but with due respect thats their problem. I would never deny the right of someone to talk about their beliefs provided they are not trying to convert me to their way of thinking - trust me the Ulster boys do not do that. I do prefer to be in an open environment where people talk freely about their attitudes to life and do not have a problem agreeing to differ. That is what it is like at Ulster rugby club

I have no issue with people privately practicing their faith, but this subject was brought up originally in this thread that players preaching in the community is good for Ulster Rugby. In my opinion it should have nothing to do with Ulster Rugby because it is a workplace as well for others who don't share those beliefs. Keep the religious stuff in the church.

And keep Yids away from rugby. And Yanks. And Muslims. And Kafflics. And Proddies. And and...

IS THERE ANYONE THERE? Anyone left? Please put out the floodlights then.

What about the fact that nobody here is acknowledging, and Munster Rugby refuses to confirm or deny.

Spoiler:

But it doesn't have anything to do with Ulster rugby. That has been pointed out about a million times now.

Feckless Rogue wrote:What about the fact that nobody here is acknowledging, and Munster Rugby refuses to confirm or deny.

Spoiler:

That is one of the best things I have ever seen!

Feckless Rogue wrote:What about the fact that nobody here is acknowledging, and Munster Rugby refuses to confirm or deny.

Spoiler:

He's praying to BOD for Divine Intervention.

Apparently he became very religious a few years ago when he saw Shane Horgan running down the 10 channel.

He heard God calling him to become a priest, but refused to listen. So god got vengeance by causing him to go mad in the 80th minute of the 2nd Lions test in 2009.

Rog took the message and was ordained that Autumn. In his absence Sexton was selected for the Ireland Autumn international against South Africa.

ROG quickly rose through the ranks and through sheer pigheadedness became pope earlier this year. Of course it didn't make many headlines here, because nobody takes any notice of the catholic church anymore.

This is what I've heard on my travels to Munster. Has anyone heard the Munster branch ever officially deny this?

I didn't think so.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:But it doesn't have anything to do with Ulster rugby. That has been pointed out about a million times now.

Indeed. it's something they do in their own personal time. This has been explained too. Happy going around in circles everybody.

Just back from the dara o'briain (spelling?) gig at the waterfront. He is an open atheist and made a few jokes tonight about nativity play s. He got a few laughs too. I, for one was shocked and appalled.........


Oh and he's Irish. Must have been very uncomfortable for him

Feckless Rogue wrote:Apparently he became very religious a few years ago when he saw Shane Horgan running down the 10 channel.

He heard God calling him to become a priest, but refused to listen. So god got vengeance by causing him to go mad in the 80th minute of the 2nd Lions test in 2009.

Rog took the message and was ordained that Autumn. In his absence Sexton was selected for the Ireland Autumn international against South Africa.

ROG quickly rose through the ranks and through sheer pigheadedness became pope earlier this year. Of course it didn't make many headlines here, because nobody takes any notice of the catholic church anymore.

This is what I've heard on my travels to Munster. Has anyone heard the Munster branch ever officially deny this?

I didn't think so.

Jaysus. Thats incredible. I never knew that. Its just great though. The inter-web I mean.

Notch wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:But it doesn't have anything to do with Ulster rugby. That has been pointed out about a million times now.

Indeed. it's something they do in their own personal time. This has been explained too. Happy going around in circles everybody.

I think you should read the Irish Times article where they say that one of the reasons the Saffers came to Ulster was because of the Christian ethos of the place (i.e., they didn't go somewhere else that doesn't have the same Christian ethos).

Standulstermen wrote:Just back from the dara o'briain (spelling?) gig at the waterfront. He is an open atheist and made a few jokes tonight about nativity play s. He got a few laughs too. I, for one was shocked and appalled.........


Oh and he's Irish. Must have been very uncomfortable for him

So how do you think Muller & Co. would take similar jokes if made in the Ulster dressing room?

Dara Ó Briain is not nearly in the same class as this guy. Massively overrated imo. I reckon he watched the tapes/vids of The Master. Long before Father Ted and all that followed.

My old man used love him, yet would turn him off when us kids were in the room...

Once a Kafflic always a Kafflic...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxo81Ok9Urk

Fortunately sin, dara caters to bigger venues than the ulster dressing room. He does do corporate gigs though but I'm sure humph snr could put it on in the new stand.

In seriousness though you are painting the ulster dressing room like a Sunday school. It is a dressing room. I'm sure guys in all dressing rooms pray and the rest of their team mates pat each others ass's or listen to music or do whatever it is that gets them in the zone so to speak.

You are also stereotyping the Christians within theulster squad as massively hard line without knowing anything significant other than that they have spoken in a few churches and read the bible with other guys. If a young Irish player (or a young ulster player) had a massive issue with guys praying before a game then it shows a lack of worldliness on the part of that player. Similarly if muller and co had an issue with a guy listening to music instead of praying it would be their problem. Fortunately we have no evidence to suggest that either is in any more danger of happening than dara doing a gig in the beer tent at half time at ravenhill.

Gibson

Dara is one funny Bar Steward. Best standup of his generation IMO.