20 Seasons - The Right Midfielder

First topic message reminder :

Onto the midfield now, as usual pick who you believe was the greatest player in that position over the past 20 years of the Premier League from the following and comment if you believe there's a glaring ommision!

Darren Anderton
David Beckham
Joe Cole
Andrei Kanchelskis
Aaron Lennon
Freddie Ljungberg
Steve McManaman
Cristiano Ronaldo
Steve Stone
Ashley Young

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

I think a lot of what you say is complete rubbish but you are entitled to your opinion and so is eveyone else.

Because it is rubbish, he is a sheep.

Beckham was only really good at crosses/free kicks, if he had Tevez's looks he wouldn't be getting paid what he is.

You're on the wrong thread dopey, this one's got nothing to do with pay. It's about ability and Beckham had it in bucketloads.

mystiroakey wrote:

d260005p wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:yep 100% beckham, ronaldo better overall but not in the prem

What?

David Beckham - 265 APPS 62 GOALS 13 ASSISTS

Ronaldo - 196 APPS 84 GOALS 26 ASSISTS


That was just in the league.

firstly you need to put the stats when they played at right midfield- not overall prem carrer- secondly you need to get the correct stats- they are incorrect- do you honestly think beckham only had 13 assits- !!!

13 Assists

Someone has obviously not watched Beckham much during his prem career! He probs got that many in his first season!

How ridiculous an option is Aaron Lennon or Ashley Young on this particular position.... Ok both good players in their own right, but 10 ten in Prem history... Young plays on the left the majority of time and Lennon isnt even the best RM in the league at the minute....

If they werent English or had played 10 years ago would be nowhere near this list..... Same can be said with Richards and Johnson for RB... though to be fair the competition aint half as stiff there.

haha didn't even notice Young was on the list! Never look past Becks and the Ronaldo conundrum!

Ridiculous.

mystiroakey wrote:Personally i just think people are thinking of ronaldo as the player he is in all positions and all leagues, rather than just a prem winger.

beckham had 152 assists and 64 goals in 264 games, name another winger in the prem with them stats!

ronaldo had 51 goals and 29 assits 146.

its not comparable- especially considering most of his goals were from a forward position not as a winger..

Just to correct the stats Ronaldo has 84 PL goals and 41 PL assists, obviously many more for United in total.

Ent wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Personally i just think people are thinking of ronaldo as the player he is in all positions and all leagues, rather than just a prem winger.

beckham had 152 assists and 64 goals in 264 games, name another winger in the prem with them stats!

ronaldo had 51 goals and 29 assits 146.

its not comparable- especially considering most of his goals were from a forward position not as a winger..

Just to correct the stats Ronaldo has 84 PL goals and 41 PL assists, obviously many more for United in total.

not sure dude i think thats his total figure..not just pl-

yep just double checked he scored 84 golas in 196 games for united.. my stats are correct

however maybe beckhams stats are also for his man u carrer as well- so maybe that side is wrong- better to use the total stats as its very hard to get accurate pl stats only

ronaldo 84 goals and 41assis in 196
beckham 64 golas and 152 assits in 264


in all honesty beckham is still on top - considering that most of ronaldos golas were scored when he was a forward player-- i think he scored 40 of em in his last season when he was a forward player- therefore beckham does blow him out of the water, his assits are unbelivable

mystiroakey wrote:

Ent wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Personally i just think people are thinking of ronaldo as the player he is in all positions and all leagues, rather than just a prem winger.

beckham had 152 assists and 64 goals in 264 games, name another winger in the prem with them stats!

ronaldo had 51 goals and 29 assits 146.

its not comparable- especially considering most of his goals were from a forward position not as a winger..

Just to correct the stats Ronaldo has 84 PL goals and 41 PL assists, obviously many more for United in total.

not sure dude i think thats his total figure..not just pl-

yep just double checked he scored 84 golas in 196 games for united.. my stats are correct

No they aren't he scored his 100 and 101 goals for united against Stoke in a 5-0 win at OT in 2008.

PL goals

03/04 - 4
04/05 - 5
05/06 - 6
06/07 - 17
07/08 - 31
08/09 - 18

Total 84.

Wikipedia only gives league goals in the club totals. So no your stats are not right - how do you feel now you know Ronaldo scored twice as many goals as you thought?

I'd even put Freddie Ljungberg ahead of Beckham.

No he did not score 40 goals as a forward player (he managed 31 in his last season IIRC), there is a huge difference in running into a forward position and playing as a forward.

Ronaldo played as a centre forward in a handful of games e.g. Carling cup (debut season), Portsmouth at home 07/08, Porto away 08/09, CL final 08/09.

No one is doubting Beckham had more assists...

i dont think i understand your point dude -you have to factor in the games played, the other figure was only based on 140 games or so - this 1 200.

and over half of his golas would have been scored from a orward position not the right wing- i know how good ronaldo is, he is immense- i am arguing who wa sthe better overall right sided midfielder- beckhams wins out for me. ronaldo wins out as the better player all day long

Ent wrote:No he did not score 40 goals as a forward player (he managed 31 in his last season IIRC), there is a huge difference in running into a forward position and playing as a forward.

Ronaldo played as a centre forward in a handful of games e.g. Carling cup (debut season), Portsmouth at home 07/08, Porto away 08/09, CL final 08/09.

No one is doubting Beckham had more assists...

its not just a few more though is it- no one in the history of the prem has any one had that sort of assits to games played ratio. the only one close(and not even that close) is berkhamp and noone near on the right side.

and if you wanna correct the stats- correct them properly and adjust the games played!!

Ronaldo hardly ever played up front in the league for United, he played as a winger which many constitute to be a midfield position.

there played alot of 3 up front- he wasnt a tradional winger.. anyway that point is mute really- but its just the way this is set up in a 4-4-2 formation.

still an expetional right sided player but not a typical winger

We played two different ways, a traditional 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 but in both formations we used traditional wingers who would switch from wing to wing.

4-4-2

Ronaldo-Scholes-Carrick-Nani/Park/Giggs

4-5-1

Ronaldo-Fletcher-Carrick-Scholes-Nani/Park/Giggs

Only away from home in europe did Ronaldo play up top.

Whilst Ronaldo may have lined up as a winger/RM, I have always felt he played as a 'wing-forward'.

For me an RM is there to make goals and contribute some of his own, whereas a forward/wing-forward is the opposite, he is to score them and contribute with assists. This summarises Beckham and Ronaldo perfectly, one was a prolific assister the other a prolific scorer. Ronaldo rarely played as an out and out striker (if ever?!) but the onus on his game was clear - get goals and be a nightmare for the opposition defence.

mystiroakey wrote:i dont think i understand your point dude -you have to factor in the games played, the other figure was only based on 140 games or so - this 1 200.

and over half of his golas would have been scored from a orward position not the right wing- i know how good ronaldo is, he is immense- i am arguing who wa sthe better overall right sided midfielder- beckhams wins out for me. ronaldo wins out as the better player all day long

The point is if you bring stats into it you should have the correct ones, you are suggesting Ronaldo scored 1/2 as many PL goals as he did and 1/3 less total goals.

If you want to base this on who did more when standing on the right wing then it is Beckham, god forbid one moves off the wing and scores a goal.

Beckham played 100 more games for United than Ronaldo.

Beckham must have played central midfield for us a comparable amount of times that Ronaldo played as a centre forward.

No one is suggesting Beckham does not have lots and lots of assists - this does not make him the best player to have played on the Right of midfield in the PL era.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:We played two different ways, a traditional 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 but in both formations we used traditional wingers who would switch from wing to wing.

4-4-2

Ronaldo-Scholes-Carrick-Nani/Park/Giggs

4-5-1

Ronaldo-Fletcher-Carrick-Scholes-Nani/Park/Giggs

Only away from home in europe did Ronaldo play up top.

thats the thing dude- you could argue your 4-5-1 was a 4-3-3.

either way though he was there to score goals, which he did!

Ent wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:i dont think i understand your point dude -you have to factor in the games played, the other figure was only based on 140 games or so - this 1 200.

and over half of his golas would have been scored from a orward position not the right wing- i know how good ronaldo is, he is immense- i am arguing who wa sthe better overall right sided midfielder- beckhams wins out for me. ronaldo wins out as the better player all day long

The point is if you bring stats into it you should have the correct ones, you are suggesting Ronaldo scored 1/2 as many PL goals as he did and 1/3 less total goals.

If you want to base this on who did more when standing on the right wing then it is Beckham, god forbid one moves off the wing and scores a goal.

Beckham played 100 more games for United than Ronaldo.

Beckham must have played central midfield for us a comparable amount of times that Ronaldo played as a centre forward.

No one is suggesting Beckham does not have lots and lots of assists - this does not make him the best player to have played on the Right of midfield in the PL era.

jeasus dude what is it with you- i didnt purposfully get them wrong- as you can see my games were down- which in reality didnt make my stats as wrong as yours were by not adjusting games played!! i wonder why you didnt adjust them!

goals and assits are meaningless without games played.

mystiroakey wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:We played two different ways, a traditional 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 but in both formations we used traditional wingers who would switch from wing to wing.

4-4-2

Ronaldo-Scholes-Carrick-Nani/Park/Giggs

4-5-1

Ronaldo-Fletcher-Carrick-Scholes-Nani/Park/Giggs

Only away from home in europe did Ronaldo play up top.

thats the thing dude- you could argue your 4-5-1 was a 4-3-3.

either way though he was there to score goals, which he did!

The major flaw with that would be the teams whom we played 4-5-1 against, they tended to be the tougher away games and the stronger teams where we expected our wingers to show a high work rate including Ronaldo, we very rarely played 3 up top. The closest we came to that was the 4-2-3-1 we used against Roma but that was a fairly isolated incident that we didn't replicate in the league.

you played that way plenty of times and ronaldo the player he was had a free role alot of the time..

mystiroakey wrote:you played that way plenty of times and ronaldo the player he was had a free role alot of the time..

So basically to be a right winger you need to stand on the right touchline all the time.

In other news, Henry, Bergkamp, Zola, Cantona, Rooney not centre forwards (play too wide or too deep).

Lampard, Gerrard not centre midfielders (run forward to much)

Evra, Cole not full backs (attack too much)

Jagielka not a defender (went in goal once).

Honestly loads of modern wingers have played the game like Ronaldo, he just gets tarred with these free role/centre forward nonsense because he was very very good at it.

well no i am not saying that dude- just that he played a very freeish role alot of the time and was very forward.. that is not nonsense - its fact. nothing about being tarred- its a good thing

great player dude- lets agree to disagree on who we think is best-I. just think becks was more influencial for a longer period of time.

It's not fact it's an opinion.

i think we can safely say that ronaldo played a very forward role compared to other RM's, that isnt just an opinion dude

basically point is its either fact or not fact.

an opinion would be if i found him good or not- which i do- thats an opinion

It's an opinion as to what his role in the team was.

no its not, no opinion at all

The only people who really know are ferguson and the united team.

he spent more time in a forward and central position than an average right midfileder- that is all i am saying..


Anyway we are going around in circles about stuff that isnt important dude!


who is your pick and why?

If I was the opposition Ronaldo would be the one I fear most !

Ok flip it. if you were in a united team. who would you rather play on the right at peak. beckham contributed to way more goals even way more on a pro rata level

David Beckham easily.

I was a LB and I would rather face Beckham than Ronaldo. Saying that, if I were a CB then I would hate to see Beckham out wide, flinging crosses in.