Blues target new coaching Chief

Blues target new coaching Chief


Cardiff Blues target new director of rugby to work above coaches
Cardiff Blues have announced they intend to appoint a director of rugby to work above the current coaches.

Gareth Baber and Justin Burnell, in charge at the Welsh region since November, have been given until the end of the season to make their mark.

They managed to take the Blues to the last eight of the Heineken Cup but recent results have been poor.

"The search for the new director of rugby will begin immediately," said Blues chief executive Richard Holland.

Former Ospreys coaches Sean Holley and Lyn Jones, together with former Scarlets coach Phil Davies, are potential candidates for the new role.

And BBC Wales Sport understands that Kingsley Jones has still not put his name to a four-year contract offer to coach Russia.

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“We are looking for a candidate who has had previous experience in this role”

Richard Holland

Blues chief executive
The Blues announcement comes amid a backdrop of dwindling finances and a player exodus at the Blues.

Twelve players, including Wales prop Gethin Jenkins and Wales scrum-half Richie Rees, are leaving at the end of the season, and the region fear they will also lose new Wales wing sensation Alex Cuthbert.

Details of the player drain has coincided with an alarming slump in form for the Blues, who have lost their five games in a row and have not managed a try in their last three.

The region were also criticised over their recent handling of Gavin Henson, who was sacked after a alcohol-fuelled disturbance on a flight as the squad returned from Glasgow.

Baber and Burnell were rookie coaches when they took over following Dai Young's move to London Wasps and the Blues believe the team needs a more experienced hand.

"Gareth [Baber] and Justin [Burnell] will continue in their roles but the appointment of a director of rugby will strengthen our rugby department going forward," added Holland in a statement.

"This is a positive step for the Blues as we aim to build an exciting, young squad for the future that includes a core base of Wales Grand Slam winning players.

"We are looking for a candidate who has had previous experience in this role and obviously an excellent understanding of Welsh rugby."

The Blues have no chance of reaching the Pro12 League play-offs, languishing in seventh place and 12 points adrift of the top four with two games remaining.

Their Heineken Cup hopes were ended by a thumping 34-3 defeat to defending champions Leinster.

But Holland added: "Gareth Baber and Justin Burnell must be commended for getting the team to the quarter final of the Heineken Cup.

"Being in the top eight teams in Europe is no mean feat."

"However, there is no doubting that it has been a difficult first season for them in charge of the senior side, the financial constraints being announced and players departing has contributed to this."


'Cardiff Blues have announced they intend to appoint a director of rugby to work above the current coaches'

This bit worries me. Who is going to want to manage a team where he can't pick his own coaches ?

There's one quote there which is enough to make all Blues fans fear things could get soo much worse -

munkian wrote:Former Ospreys coaches Sean Holley and Lyn Jones, together with former Scarlets coach Phil Davies, are potential candidates for the new role.

First thing Blues need is a new scrum coach - shocking ATM - and thats WITH Geth !

indeed Smirnoff.

Lyn Jones is also a bit of a surprise as well considering the comments he made about the set up

I quite like Lyn Jones....

Lyn and Kingsley Jones yes, but God help the Blues if they appoint Shaun Holley or Phil Davies, two useless coaches right there. I would love to see Kingsley Jones there personally but again Lyn would also be an excellent candidate. Whenever I see both on scrum V I always feel they know exactly what their on about, as opposed to someone like Gwyn Jones, who's so far up his own backside its ridiculous and Phil Davies who makes the opposition out to be some unstoppable force

"Gareth [Baber] and Justin [Burnell] will continue in their roles but the appointment of a director of rugby will strengthen our rugby department going forward," added Holland in a statement.

Isn't it the norm for a new DOR to choose his own assistant coaching staff?

Eddie O'Sullivan.

I think the Blues need a big appointment to appease the fans, to set some direction and attract players of better calibre to the region.

I think some hard nosed South African who will bully the forwards in to shape to give decent ball to Lloyd, Halfpenny, Roberts, Cuthbert etc.

Anyone available? They need to make money available for this as a half hearted appointment could see the end for the Blues.

martyr_94 wrote:Lyn and Kingsley Jones yes, but God help the Blues if they appoint Shaun Holley or Phil Davies, two useless coaches right there. I would love to see Kingsley Jones there personally but again Lyn would also be an excellent candidate. Whenever I see both on scrum V I always feel they know exactly what their on about, as opposed to someone like Gwyn Jones, who's so far up his own backside its ridiculous and Phil Davies who makes the opposition out to be some unstoppable force

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I find Gwyn Jones the most analytical and thought provoking pundit on the Telly, I really like him. (I may be biased as Dr Gwyn is my GP). I also like Kingsley Jones, Lyn though is someone who tends to be pretty controversial and a bit of a joker so I am never sure when he is being serious. And finally, for the full set, I think Tulip is a very good reader of the game and would make a great aquisition for the Blues, but he is likely to be pretty hands on so Burnell would probably be out of a job.

The Blues are short of cash so a really big name coach is not an option, the candidates named are likely to be the ones they can afford.

Actually thinking about it - it def won't be Phil after he slagged off the Blues treatment of Henson

Lyn the Lip please.
The post match interviews would be entertaining at least.

Coaching chief? - In that case McIntosh is a shoe in.

Shaun Holley...

Lets really rub salt in the wound and become the total laughing stock of world rugby!

Lyn Jones would be a good choice it is thanks to him the Ospreys pack are still strong today, he targetted key players like R Jones when the Celtic Warriors were shut down. Another good choice is Lynn Howells but I can't see him putting up with the current coaches.

Surely Phil Davies can't be a serious candidate when you consider the financial position he left the Scarlets in, with the debt the Blues already have it wouldn't take him long to finish them off for good.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Eddie O'Sullivan.

They'd love to have Eddie on board.

2ndtimeround wrote:Surely Phil Davies can't be a serious candidate when you consider the financial position he left the Scarlets in, with the debt the Blues already have it wouldn't take him long to finish them off for good.

You have lost me, whats this got to do with his coaching ability? The Directors decide on the playing budget, the coach spends it, if they overspend then it's the Directors fault.

Also looking at the players the Blues are currently recruiting, can things get any worse?

It's great how the western mail mention Lyn Jones as being a candidate, yet Peter Thomas told him to shut up and mind his own business only about a month ago.

Why anyone reads that' rag is beyond me.

Seagultaf wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:Surely Phil Davies can't be a serious candidate when you consider the financial position he left the Scarlets in, with the debt the Blues already have it wouldn't take him long to finish them off for good.

You have lost me, whats this got to do with his coaching ability? The Directors decide on the playing budget, the coach spends it, if they overspend then it's the Directors fault.

Also looking at the players the Blues are currently recruiting, can things get any worse?

When Phil Davies was at the Scarlets he did his part in pushing through very well paying contracts for players who were not producing the goods on the feild. If he were at the Blues then you would find someone like Scott Andrews being given a £200k over 3 year deal.

As for recruitment Phil Davies signed the likes of Adam Useless, Rhys Thomas (although he didn't arive until after Phil left), and Rob Higgit as our big name signings when he was here. SO make your own mind up there.

I think the Blues best bet would be Lyn Jones, although I wouldn't rule out a Dai Young return after the Wasps go down.

As I recall the Scarlets best performance in the Hieneken was with Phil as coach wasn't it? Admitedly there was a fall fram grace the following season.

Also, all coaches sign some lemons (and you certainly named some there) but I would not include Rhys Thomas in that list. Until his recent ill health he was one of the best performing tight heads in the Rabo and I for one was very suprised that he was not in the Welsh squad.

He early years of professionalism have been traumatic for Welsh regions, the Scarlets have suffered more than most. In particular the scandalous handling of the Stradey Park planning application by the Welsh Government. That nearly bankrupted the Scarlets.

The Blues have been protected by their benefactor and the earnings from CAP (surely the most valuable club rugby ground in the UK). That has all changed now but this situation cannot be revered under the current funding arrangement, ie. Teams being effectively penalised for producing Wales players (Region pays their wages but player plays for Wales). This needs sorting now!

Seagultaf wrote:As I recall the Scarlets best performance in the Hieneken was with Phil as coach wasn't it? Admitedly there was a fall fram grace the following season.

Also, all coaches sign some lemons (and you certainly named some there) but I would not include Rhys Thomas in that list. Until his recent ill health he was one of the best performing tight heads in the Rabo and I for one was very suprised that he was not in the Welsh squad.

He early years of professionalism have been traumatic for Welsh regions, the Scarlets have suffered more than most. In particular the scandalous handling of the Stradey Park planning application by the Welsh Government. That nearly bankrupted the Scarlets.

The Blues have been protected by their benefactor and the earnings from CAP (surely the most valuable club rugby ground in the UK). That has all changed now but this situation cannot be revered under the current funding arrangement, ie. Teams being effectively penalised for producing Wales players (Region pays their wages but player plays for Wales). This needs sorting now!

Seagulf - the last comment 1st, the regions are well reimbersed for access to the Welsh internationals by the WRU (just as much as the ERFU is by the Clubs umbrella body - PRL), that was a compromise that was agreed between the WRU and Regional Rugby Wales after it was deemed (by the regions) the previous agreement wasn't good enough and they wanted more money.

The real problem is that there are too many games being played and the structure of the season is appalling, as a result players (particularly international players) are getting some horrendous and/or reptitive injuries very early in their careers and miss large parts of the season, it also means that players can't play all the games and need to miss/be rested for games - invariably league games but they'll also miss internationals and HEC games as well.

Seagul - the players I listed were just examples of his signings. Rhys Thomas did play well this season and last, but definately took a bit of work from the coaches to get him up to grade. Yes Phil did get us to the HEC semi-final, and you can't take that away from him. Although my opinion of him as a coach is that he is very good at motivating players to reach for their goals, but unfortunately does not seem to be able to maintain their performances once they have do so. With the Scarlets we got to the HEC semi, and then got trounced in the HEC the following season. And with Leeds he built them up form nowhere into a team that were in the HEC, but again once they reached that goal they slumped.

If he were to get the Blues job then I would expect them to do well for hte first season, maybe two, and get into the HEC QF/SF, however I doubt his ability to keep them at that level for the seasons that follow, going onhis past record. I really do like Phil Davies, he is a genuinely nice bloke, but IMO welsh rugby in general has a bad habbit of mistaking nice blokes (Dai Young, Phil Davies, Sean Holley to a point) as good coaches.

I do think that of the men who have been in the position of power within welsh rugby since regionalism Lyn Jones has probably been the stand out. He said when he took over at London Welsh something along the lines of using it to get some experience outside of Wales, and that he would like to return at some point (or something to that effect). So IMO that would be a win-win situation for him and the Blues if they took him on. He has had time outside of the goldfish bowl, and also has spent time within the system, so he should be able to bring some ideas with him that should profit the Blues as a region. Also he help develope the Ospreys into 'the one true region' (i really hate that saying), so maybe he could help to build fenches and get attendances up. And for him he would be back in Wales, and back in the sight of the WRU well in advance of Gatlands contract ending, which would give him a chance to put himself into contention for the international coaching job (if he still wanted it) when Gatland leaves.

Seagultaf wrote:The Blues are short of cash so a really big name coach is not an option, the candidates named are likely to be the ones they can afford.

This'll be the problem. They were talking on Wales Today last night about scouring the globe for a world-class director of rugby, but how are they going to pay him when they find him?

Also, I was a bit surprised to hear the Blues described as 'laden with talent.' BBC Wales's definition of 'laden' must be different to mine.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Seagul - the players I listed were just examples of his signings. Rhys Thomas did play well this season and last, but definately took a bit of work from the coaches to get him up to grade. Yes Phil did get us to the HEC semi-final, and you can't take that away from him. Although my opinion of him as a coach is that he is very good at motivating players to reach for their goals, but unfortunately does not seem to be able to maintain their performances once they have do so. With the Scarlets we got to the HEC semi, and then got trounced in the HEC the following season. And with Leeds he built them up form nowhere into a team that were in the HEC, but again once they reached that goal they slumped.

If he were to get the Blues job then I would expect them to do well for hte first season, maybe two, and get into the HEC QF/SF, however I doubt his ability to keep them at that level for the seasons that follow, going onhis past record. I really do like Phil Davies, he is a genuinely nice bloke, but IMO welsh rugby in general has a bad habbit of mistaking nice blokes (Dai Young, Phil Davies, Sean Holley to a point) as good coaches.

I do think that of the men who have been in the position of power within welsh rugby since regionalism Lyn Jones has probably been the stand out. He said when he took over at London Welsh something along the lines of using it to get some experience outside of Wales, and that he would like to return at some point (or something to that effect). So IMO that would be a win-win situation for him and the Blues if they took him on. He has had time outside of the goldfish bowl, and also has spent time within the system, so he should be able to bring some ideas with him that should profit the Blues as a region. Also he help develope the Ospreys into 'the one true region' (i really hate that saying), so maybe he could help to build fenches and get attendances up. And for him he would be back in Wales, and back in the sight of the WRU well in advance of Gatlands contract ending, which would give him a chance to put himself into contention for the international coaching job (if he still wanted it) when Gatland leaves.

Agree with all of that - it's just a shame he and P Thomas had a slanging match in the Western Fail over Henson, so can't see it happening. I also wondering if a good coach like that came in, how long Justin (Beiber) and Gareth would last before Lynn (someone else) took over all the duties

According to the Western Mail, Phil Davies is the favourite for the Blues job (so it must be true).

There is no doubt that Lyn Jones had success at the Ospreys but was that due to an unique financial situation which gave them access to far greater resources than the other regions? This allowed them to scour the world to top players such as Marshall and Collins and raid the other parts of Welsh rugby for their top players such as; Phillips, Ryan Jones, Gough etc.

Was it Lyn's coaching expertise or the budget he had to work with that brought success?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:The Blues are short of cash so a really big name coach is not an option, the candidates named are likely to be the ones they can afford.

This'll be the problem. They were talking on Wales Today last night about scouring the globe for a world-class director of rugby, but how are they going to pay him when they find him?

Also, I was a bit surprised to hear the Blues described as 'laden with talent.' BBC Wales's definition of 'laden' must be different to mine.

To be fair to them besides the front row they have quality in most positions (though only 1 quality player at 10 - which is more than last season though!), if you consider B Davies, Patterson, Pretorious with Hill and Cook coming through, Navidi, Warburton, Rush (if he stays)

then Halfpenny, Roberts, Cuthbert (if he stays), Robinson, T James (good regional player - not int though), L Williams, then there is quality in the team - they just need a few signings and trust in their Acadmey and feeder clubs

I thought Holley was going to Munster in the greatest regional move since 2003

Seagul - I would say it was him and not the cash, as there was still cash there for H&H, and then Johnson. Also Lyn seems to have been the only bloke to have really been able to keep Henson in check. But that is my personal take on it.

Thinking about it Kingsley would be an interesting choice. He had some good success at Sale as St. Andre's assistant, but flopped as the top man. But again he has had time away from the welsh setup and should have a different view point on how to do things.

Russia are hardly lighting up the world, even with all those converted wrestlers!

Although what Kingsley has done is give them some continuity, structure and belief, all of which the Blues need!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Russia are hardly lighting up the world, even with all those converted wrestlers!

Although what Kingsley has done is give them some continuity, structure and belief, all of which the Blues need!

I honestly think that belief is all the Blues need right now.

I think thats part of it, but they are a mess on the pitch, they need some structure and a game plan they buy into!

They need someone to inspire!

bluesman - they are messy on the pitch granted, but they are no when they were playing for Wales. I do think that if they could have the same confidence in themselves (and those around them) in a Blues shirt as they do in a Welsh shirt that they would fine.

Anyway is there a set date that they are looking at appointing someone or is it a case of just trying to get it done before the first game of next season sometime?

I think they definately need defensive structure as they've been shocking at times this season defensively, with players looking like they don't know where they, or the man next to them, should be.

And after having most of your senior players leaving/retiring I'd imagine an inspirational figure is a must - lets face it Baber and Burnell aren't doing it at the moment.

Ye seasons over, why rush it.

They'll want someone in before pre season starts though!!

They have a set structure for Wales, most of the Welsh set up aren't acting like knobs, Henson on the plane, Sweeney/James arrested, Laulala etc criticising the club and the way it's run!

Half smirnoff???

It's only old heads and over the hill players leaving/retiring!

Yapps offered little, Rees has been messed around and Geth has hardly played all year!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Half smirnoff???

It's only old heads and over the hill players leaving/retiring!

Yapps offered little, Rees has been messed around and Geth has hardly played all year!!!

Soz what you mean half? I didn't mention anything about half.

I only said that the old heads (ie experienced players) would be leaving - most like Yapp, Molitika, D Jones should have left long ago but that's abother matter.

Not sure where I've disagreed with your post

most of your senior players leaving/retiring

Sorry you said most, it's prob about a 1/4 in reality!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:most of your senior players leaving/retiring

Sorry you said most, it's prob about a 1/4 in reality!!!

When I said senior I meant as in 30+ and the Blues have M Williams, Fiilse, G Jenkins, Yapp, D Jones, Tito (apparently), Molitika, Parks, Blair, Henson and Lualua leaving/retiring

I'd say that's a singificant number of experienced players leaving a squad in 1 go

And as I said - those I've listed are the older players (or as you've put it old heads/over the hill players)

Senior team is anyone involved in the team who isn't an academy man.

Your talking about old players, who don't contribute much... This kind of clear out shouldn't happen as the older players should be replaced within 2 seasons of the age of 30 IMO!

thebluesmancometh wrote:most of your senior players leaving/retiring

Sorry you said most, it's prob about a 1/4 in reality!!!

I've listed 11 over 30's leaving (and you had G Williams retire earlier in the season) - if that's around a Quarter then you must have around 44 players over 30!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Senior team is anyone involved in the team who isn't an academy man.

Your talking about old players, who don't contribute much... This kind of clear out shouldn't happen as the older players should be replaced within 2 seasons of the age of 30 IMO!

I'd already explained that I'm meant older/experienced players because in the context I was talking about - inspiring, experienced, leadership - that would mean senior. Rather than playing contracts where Hobbs has a senior contract but you wouldn't call him a senior member of the squad

Hobbs is a senior member of the squad, he's hardly a junior or youth player is he?

I'm not too bothered about the over 30+ leaving as players, just hope a couple can stick around to offer support to new members to the squad and remind them what its all about to be at the Blues. Obvious names are Williams, Tito and Molitika who could stick around either as ambassadors in in some form of coaching but the latter option isn't the one i'd choose though.

I'd like Rush to have one more season, but more games for Hamilton and then Rush filling in, take the pressure off him to play week in week out and will have more of an impact with a 20min burst off the bench. Gives Hamilton a bigger role and Rush would be a superb mentor for someone just starting out.

Which thicko wrote the list of early potential candidates and thinks that Holley, Jones or Davies would be apt at digging the Blues out of their hole?

Sometimes I wonder whether the Blues management and coaching panel are trying to break a record on most displayed stupidity or write a book on how best to ruin a team with potential.

Seagultaf.

My comments around PD are based on the signings he made, he is been touted as the DOR not as a coach therefore will pull the strings on signings and have a major influence on contract negotiations.

As for his record in taking the Scarlets to the Semi Final of the HC, yes he did but he achieved this with his inherited squad, once he started to sign his own choice of players the club went backwards quickly and the 2008 season was one of our worst ever seasons finishing the HC pool with 6 defeats. And left the club with massively over inflated wages.

I don't doubt he is a good coach but he has a poor track record as a Director of Rugby, he may have inspired the Blues squad to achieve something last year but with next seasons squad and a new DOR rebuilding the team he is not likely to be the right man for the job.

I agree 2ndtimearound, Phil is a very good coach but not a Director of Rugby (whatever that is).

i'm not sure slotting in another level of coaching over the top of the bumbling Bs will help with the coaching or the finacial problems.

sounds like a botched job.