Scarlets vs Munster - Playoff battle heating up

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Written by Rugby Dreamer

The Scarlets had only lost once at home in the Rabo Direct Pro 12 this season. They had also lost the last 14 games in all competitions they had played in against the day’s opponents, Munster. Both facts were something for the local supporters, who had turned out in large numbers, to equally celebrate and despair.

Munster, often incorrectly perceived to be an aging side, were still trying to cope with the smart of being knocked out of the Heineken Cup by a fellow province. Could they then handle losing to a team that for the last five years they have had such a strangle hold on?

The match was set to be a nail biter, with both teams evenly matched at the injury ravaged end of the season, and both vying for a play-off spot.
The game began quietly enough, with the official of the day, Alain Rolland, making his presence felt, which was to set the tone for the rest of the match.

It took just over ten minutes for the first points to appear. Munster had been pressuring the Scarlets deep in their own 22, until a crunching tackle helped enforce a turnover. The Scarlets then ran a sublime length of the pitch try, with the ball going through the hands of at nine Scarlets players, to send wing Sean Lamont over in the corner.

This seemed to be the signal for the floodgates to open, as within a few minutes Munster had scored a try of their own, coming from a Scarlets error (to be a theme of the evening) from their lineout in their 22, to send Ryan crashing through some very weak defending.

Seventeen minutes on the clock and it was 7-7, with very little separating either side.

The rest of the first half, apart from one gleaming move from Munster that sent Zebo over (with the aid from the TMO), continued to be a turgid, stop-start affair. The scrums failed to function and with Munster playing as Munster do and smothering the breakdown, ignoring the need to release the tackled player, and the officials happy to let them. The Scarlets seemed incapable of helping themselves though, where even any half chances were snuffed out by their own unforced errors.

An exchange of penalties saw the first half end 10 – 17 to the visitors, although their lead was slightly overshadowed by Tommy O’Donnell having to be stretchered off the pitch, which looked to hopefully be a precautionary measure.

The second half saw an improvement from the home side, and with the visitors sticking to their spoiling game plan. With teams so evenly matched, in what was such a key encounter, were given no chance to express themselves in what was turning out to be an increasingly frustrating encounter. Munster offered little to nothing, whilst the Scarlets kept trying to apply pressure but to no avail.

It wasn’t until the 54th minute that the Scarlets notched more points on the board to make it 10 – 20.

A few minutes later, a brilliant angle cut by backrow Aaron Shingler, led to an excellent try, after the Scarlets had been doggedly trying to move up field. Priestland converted.

What followed were periods of Scarlets pressure that failed time and again through poor handling, poor control at the breakdown and poor kicking, to be converted into points. It was not until the 71st minute that they managed to level the scores to make it a nervous last ten minutes for the Scarlets faithful, who had remained all match in good voice, despite the exasperating nature of the game.

Could the Scarlets finally overcome their fierce rivals Munster and put themselves in with a chance of making the play-offs? Could Munster grind out yet another win to keep their play-off chance alive? Neither side had been spectacular, or allowed to be, in this match, yet the commitment and ferocity from both sides was clear to see.

Ten minutes of extreme Scarlets pressure in the end, with Munster doing their best to spoil every facet of play, led to no penalties nor even an attempt at a drop goal, and saw the match finishing as an incredibly unsatisfying draw. Neither team looked happy; the Scarlets fans for the first time fell silent.

Munster still limp on towards the end of the season with the prospect of silverware to play for. The Scarlets look to be ending another season just shy of the top four, again having to live with the label of being the “nearly” side, with no one but themselves to blame. The disconsolate look of apology full back Liam Williams flashed to the supporters in the North Stand as he applauded his thanks, said far more than any words could.

The biggest disappointment though was that despite some shining displays from Warren, Shingler, Zebo and Dineen, the game wasn’t allowed to flow. Two key aspects, the breakdown and the scrum, were not under the control of the match official, who showed remarkable lack of feeling towards the running of a game. Often after realising his mistake with one call, it appeared that Rolland would immediately award the next penalty to the previously wrongly penalised team, in the appearance of making amends, with calls at some times that left both sets of players, baffled. Whilst the result itself was a disappointment to the 10,741 supporters who had made their way to Parc Y Scarlets, it was the manner in which the game was allowed (or not allowed) to be played, that truly left such a frustrating feeling.

Full time score: 20 - 20

Attendance: 10,741

Man of the Match: Adam Warren

My Man of the Match: Aaron Shingler

Scarlets: Liam Williams, G North, A Warren, S Jones, S Lamont, R Priestland, G Davies, R Jones, M Rees capt, D Manu, S Timani, D Day, A Shingler, J Turnbull, B Morgan.

Replacements: T Knoyle for G Davies (61), S Gardner for R. Jones (74), E Phillips for M Rees (61), P John for Manu (65), K Murphy for Timani (55).
Munster: F Jones; L O'Dea; J Murphy; L Mafi; S Zebo; I Keatley; C Murray; D Kilcoyne; M Sherry; BJ Botha; M O'Driscoll; P O'Connell capt; D Ryan; T O'Donnell; P O'Mahony.

Replacements: I Dineen for Jones (65), T O'Leary for Murray (61), S Archer for Botha (71), D O'Callaghan for O'Driscoll (67), P Butler for O'Donnell (38).
Not Used: D Varley, W du Preez, S Deasy.
Att: 10,741

Referee: Alain Rolland (IRFU)

Assistant Referees: Gwyn Morris and David Jones (Both WRU)

Citing Commissioner: Jeff Mark (WRU)

TMO: Nigel Whitehouse (WRU)

http://v2journal.com/scarlets-v-munster.html

GavinDragon wrote:dreamer who was the number 20? he seemed to carry well, wasnt a massive guy either

Kieran Murphy wasn't it?

Tbs - right there with you!

Gav - Kieran Murphy I think, he's been playing 8 for us when Ben has been away.

Ran sideways once or twice Stag but still made ground, anytime I have seen him in the Rabo I have been impressed. Particularly in Ulster last year.

Thomond

Your right, I also enjoy an arm wrestle. By good quality games I meant both sides knowing from the off what is, and whats not acceptable, and therefore more focus being placed on the game itself.

The scrums are still a bit ropy, but which ref in all honesty controls that well?

I saw him ref Exeter earlier this season and they won 15 - 11 I think, good game to watch, not too much whistle yet the forwards knocked lumps out of each other.

The super games sometimes look poorly defended because attacks are based around speed, flair and the idea that once a team is turned around you have to keep them turned around, also the ruck ball for attacking teams is much quicker so the defences don't get time to reset.

Everything up north is so structured, then restructured, then set and worked into certain areas defences have time, in the super game there is a lot more heads up rugby, the SH's see if somethings on, and gives or goes, rather than set the forwards into a pod 3 phases before going wide etc etc...

Watch the Sharks v Cheifs game from today, 80th minute, Chiefs up by 1, hooter goes, they have the ball on half way, just inside the 15m on the right.

The only option for the SH is kick dead from the base or give it to the 10 who kicks dead, he sets himself for the box dead, with 2 defenders in the 7/8m channell, they fly up and out for a charge down, but before they know it he's dummied, gone blind himself 45m to score leaving JP Pieterson dumbfounded... When have you seen heads up, ballsy play like that from a NH club side???

The difference between the NH and SH is the SH teams play positive rugby, try to win games and score tries, where the NH games are negative, they minimize mistakes and play percentages!

viewtothegym wrote:DOD the National sport in wales is winning grand slams pal

And i thought it was collecting your giro...

Interesting stat - make of it what you will.

In the 2012 Six Nations the ball was in play for longer per match than in the last Super Rugby season.

Stag, that's not that surprising or at least I wouldn't have taught so, the ball being in play could mean teams recycle endlessly with out going anywhere. Which is what tends to happen in the 6N. Ireland usually keep the ball in play for a while but do nothing with it.

DOD wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:DOD the National sport in wales is winning grand slams pal

And i thought it was collecting your giro...

So why did you say it was whinging?!

Anyway:
Wales unemployment rate = 8.3%
Ireland unemployment rate = 14.3%

Thomond wrote:

Morgan, a fair few comments about Rolland were deleted.

They were from one poster though weren't they? I didn't blame the ref, neither did gavin but he got a fair bit of stick. It's not often you should agree with a women but Rugby Dreamer is usually right. Sometimes I think she is really a he given the sound rugby knowledge and passion displayed...

Loves her really .

A fair amount of posters did but that's directly after a match so we'll forgive people for their immediate reactions. It was a good game, people enjoyed it. That's that.

morg how dare you

Thom - it was a v poor game to watch live. I didn't enjoy it.

Morgannwg wrote:

Thomond wrote:

Morgan, a fair few comments about Rolland were deleted.

They were from one poster though weren't they? I didn't blame the ref, neither did gavin but he got a fair bit of stick. It's not often you should agree with a women but Rugby Dreamer is usually right. Sometimes I think she is really a he given the sound rugby knowledge and passion displayed...

Loves her really .

She is a she and a looker to boot

i act had no idea dreamer was a lady lol

from munster twitter feed

'Tommy O'Donnell Update. He's fine travelled back on the coach with the rest of squad. Now sitting in hotel restaurant chomping food #yumyum'

good news!

eirebilly wrote:

She is a she and a looker to boot

Really????

She on FaceBook?

Spoiler:

For you Morg

Good news about O'Donnell that. Couldn't belive they re-started play after he'd already been down for about 2-3 means receiving medical treatment for a head/neck injury. Rolland and his officials totally ballsed that up.

thomond, that spoiler doesn't seem to work. This site has been playing up at my end all day.

rugbydreamer; I'm 22, a student, 6'0, athletic build and quite a good looking guy. PM me babes and I'll look you up, don't be shy.

ha, sure the spoiler doesn't work....

Morgannwg wrote:thomond, that spoiler doesn't seem to work. This site has been playing up at my end all day.

rugbydreamer; I'm 22, a student, 6'0, athletic build and quite a good looking guy. PM me babes and I'll look you up, don't be shy.

Oh now I see it. That's funny, really...

RD come on, just look at my profile pic before judging me to be a creep .

Granted the joke might have been a step too far, I take it it was deleted...

Apologies morg

That's fine bluesman, live and learn. I was only fooling around with RD to take it away from the blaming the refs, etc.. I'd still make her feel like she's the only girl in the world though.

Definately in my book

Just a bit Morg, would prefer it if you edit that part of your post please

A bit of respect please lads

I took rodders advice on board in my editing...

Well anyway back to the game..

My non-rugby loving friends came and totally ruined most of the second half for me, but from what I did see, it was a pretty good game. This had to be proof of how important a team is overall and the tactics they employ. North looked pretty average, missing tackles on Zebo and getting stopped without much trouble. Yet he looks so much stronger for Wales, against teams of higher quality for the most part. Gatland obviously uses him properly in the welsh setup.

For Munster, I thought O'Mahony again was very good. Was happy to see him stay at the back of the scrum at 8 when Butler (who seems to be a specialist 8 too) came on, and played on the openside. Makes me think POM is starting to prefer staying at 8, which he should. O'Donnell was really brilliant before he got injured, was a real shame to see that. Put in some great tackles, made some lovely steals and his runs were pretty classy too. Zebo had a good game also.

rodders wrote:Look lads there's always loads of skulduggary and cheating at the breakdown, thats the game FFS!

Jeebus you want to see what Leinster got away with last night against Ulster....but there's no point Ulster fans complaining because we got away with murder against Munster in the HEC QF!

Its swings and roundabouts, all good sides chance their arms at the breakdown and see what they get away with and the side that can play closest to the edge and dominate physically tends to get the rub of the green. The AB's are the masters at it.

Rolland didn't have a good game but Scarlets got plenty of calls in theri favour. They need to learn to play smarter and adapt to whats happening in front of them. You don't win games by crying at the referee.

No mate cheating was never meant to be part of any game, its just the way that sport has developed, the fact that so many people think cheating is ok as long as you get away with it speaks volumes. !!

Ok, I've not waded through all this thread but it seems there may have been a comment or two about the ref. From my perspective, he didn't have the best game but he never refs the breakdown well and Munster took full advantage of that. That's not cause for complaint, we should have done the same! There were a few mistakes in more open play but after getting home and watching it again ( yes I am sad like that) it wasn't against us just a few mistakes.
We got a draw, it may not be enough but it was not the refs fault that kind of talk makes you sound far too English.
We could have won it, we didn't Im a bit deflated but the boys gave a good show. I wish more people would quit blame throwing, get off their backsides and actually turn up for the game. I was told earlier it wasn't a bad attendance.
!!!
An entire empty stand, probably 10,000 to see Munster, one of Europes best sides, in a must win game, the penultimate game of the league. We should have sold out.
Come on Scarlets fans, meet me there for the last game, Blues fans its only up the M4.

Bit of a rant there sorry. Well played both sides (it's difficult to offer congrats when there's a draw) Munster keep the unbeaten record of about 15 games against us, the Scarlets must have some sort of record of ' if we'd made our kicks at goal we'd have won'. One missed, a draw but could have won by three points.
Im going to log off now, alcohol + internet forum = embarrassment in the morning.

Nos da.

I didn't see the last 15 mins but I agree he didn't ref the breakdown very well and there were plenty of offsides not picked up.

However, that did not stop the Scarlets winning the game. That was down to some very soft defending for the 2 tries in the first half and not being wise enough to realise that Munster were putting more in to the ruck than Scarlets were. hence why they got turned over a number of times and conceded penalties for holding on.

This seems to be a curse of Welsh sides where 1 guy carries the ball on his own and the rest watch and then 2 seconds later realise they should be in there recycling the ball especially when the opposition have 3 players in there.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well anyway back to the game..

My non-rugby loving friends came and totally ruined most of the second half for me, but from what I did see, it was a pretty good game. This had to be proof of how important a team is overall and the tactics they employ. North looked pretty average, missing tackles on Zebo and getting stopped without much trouble. Yet he looks so much stronger for Wales, against teams of higher quality for the most part. Gatland obviously uses him properly in the welsh setup.

For Munster, I thought O'Mahony again was very good. Was happy to see him stay at the back of the scrum at 8 when Butler (who seems to be a specialist 8 too) came on, and played on the openside. Makes me think POM is starting to prefer staying at 8, which he should. O'Donnell was really brilliant before he got injured, was a real shame to see that. Put in some great tackles, made some lovely steals and his runs were pretty classy too. Zebo had a good game also.

I think you're right about North, Rory. He does seem a lot better for Wales, but I think maybe that's because he has better players around him? The ball maybe gets out to him a bit quicker and a bit cleaner from international players than from his pro 12 colleagues. I think he plays best with Jonathan Davies inside him (oo er!), so he missed him last night IMO. They seem to have a good understanding. While Warren had a decent game he didn't seem to want to pass much, often going for the dummy and inside break which became a bit predictable in the end. This led to North living off scraps or being passed the ball in little space. At international level that earlier, better quality pass gives him that split second he needs to build up a head of stTpeam that makes him so good. Also, he seems to turn up in midfield more at international level. Maybe a tactic afforded him by Gatland but not by Davies at the Scarlets?

Rolland never refs the breakdown well (or at least very rarely, think I commented on it before tha match), it made for a painful match to watch.

Your last line is spot on Dr Nick. We did the same against Brive too, thought we'd have learnt from that


And I can't believe some posters on here are saying North looked average. Munster were on average sending 3 players in to tackle and bring him down. Added to that he still generally managed to make ground and secure the ball, put in a massive defensive shift and made a couple of tidy half breaks....with the amount of targetting he received, he had a damn fine game.

Morgannwg wrote: I'm 22, a student, 6'0, athletic build and quite a good looking guy. PM me babes and I'll look you up, don't be shy.

Does that apply to anyone else on the board? You sound just like a type, Morg babes. Hopefully, you don't wear fake tan, put on face creams or shave your chest, do you?

Morgannwg wrote:thomond, that spoiler doesn't seem to work. This site has been playing up at my end all day.

rugbydreamer; I'm 22, a student, 6'0, athletic build and quite a good looking guy. PM me babes and I'll look you up, don't be shy.

This place has really gone downhill. It's like a bargain bucket version of 'Take Me Out' on here these days

"hiya Paddy, my name is Morgs and I'm from the 'port! Keep your lights on laydeeeeez..."

Never had this nonsense on the old beeb 606...

rugbydreamer wrote:Rolland never refs the breakdown well (or at least very rarely, think I commented on it before tha match), it made for a painful match to watch.

Your last line is spot on Dr Nick. We did the same against Brive too, thought we'd have learnt from that


And I can't believe some posters on here are saying North looked average. Munster were on average sending 3 players in to tackle and bring him down. Added to that he still generally managed to make ground and secure the ball, put in a massive defensive shift and made a couple of tidy half breaks....with the amount of targetting he received, he had a damn fine game.

Average compared to his standards I guess, but even then he still wasn't all that good. Wasn't anymore effective than say, Trimble for Ulster the other day, who I thought was okay and not great too. I don't think he put in a great defensive shift, he missed a few tackles. Zebo got past him a few times from what I saw. Plus Jones handled North excellently, put in some brilliant 1 on 1 tackles. He wasn't gang tackled that much, the likes of O'Mahony put him down 1 on 1 too. But I guess when talking about how average it is when it isn't more than one person to take down North, shows how good he is.

A player can have an average day by his standards and still be good if he's a class act.

I rewatched the match this morning, suggest you do the same

People who are expecting him to play for Scarlets like he does for Wales are delusional. Wales live of good quick, clean ball that they can give to Georgie. Scarlets very rarely get that.

Georgie had a very solid game.

If you read my first post that is exactly the point I was making.. sorry for having a different opinion than you though!

all for differences of opinion but seriously, he missed just one tackle and was superb in his defensive work rate, honestly think you need to watch the match again

He was alright, seemed to do more rucking and put in a better all round shift then he does for Wales. Was he as destructive with ball in hand? No, but Munster did use two men to tackle him at times and people realise if you go low on him he will fall down.
I hope everyone is cooled down now and we will have no more ref bashing.

Thomond - if the ref put in a poor display, he should not be above criticism.

Scarlets fans on here have acknowledged he's not the reason we lost, but that doesn't mean we aren't allowed to fault him for what was a rubbish display.

Yeah but making the statement that anyone who doesn't share your opinion is delusional and needs to watch the match again is a tad arrogant. I could say the same to you, but I wouldn't because I realise that we both have our own perception of the game. Plus if anyone did claim you were delusional for not sharing their opinion, I doubt you would not be very happy, but sure.

I wouldn't mind, I've often been called delusional. If I was called that, I would just debate my point back, no harm in it.

I've had the benefit now of watching the match live and on tv. Georgie wasn't average. Sean Lamont was, but Georgie wasn't.

Both fans could feel aggrieved, but you don't hear Munster fans b!tching about it. Scarlets should have won the game, their own deficiences meant they didn't.


Happy with the result though, the "Yungry" Munster side played well at times and there is room to improve.

Why is it "b!itching" when there are genuine aggrievences of what was a really poor display from the match officials?

My side didn't lose, so it's not "sour grapes", it's a statement of fact Thomond, and I don't see why it's somehow unacceptable to call a ref out on a poor display?

Munster fans might be happy with such a poor standard, but I'm not. This league deserves better.

From past experiences, you do seem to mind when someone disagrees with your opinion though and you tend to get hostile. And that is when words like delusional, ridiculous etc comes into play, when discussing the opinions of someone else. Just something to consider.

With regards to the ref, he was equally poor for both sides. It is unfortunate that every Scarlets game against an irish team has the ref blamed for any result that doesn't go their way. Munster are Munster. They are a clever team at the breakdown.

Apart from perhaps View, please find me a Scarlets fan that has blamed the ref for the loss

And of course I mind when someone disagrees! I think I'm right Not stopping people debating the point back though, that's the whole aim of this forum, no?

And i honestly find it quite funny that you think I'm hostile in my responses, when from past experiences, it's generally you I find that get's that way

rugbydreamer wrote:Why is it "b!itching" when there are genuine aggrievences of what was a really poor display from the match officials?

My side didn't lose, so it's not "sour grapes", it's a statement of fact Thomond, and I don't see why it's somehow unacceptable to call a ref out on a poor display?

Munster fans might be happy with such a poor standard, but I'm not. This league deserves better.

It shouldn't be the first port of call when a match ends with a loss or in a disappointing manner. If I were a Scarlets fan I would be more concerned with Priestland, the defence and why you didn't take a drop goal when you have two international fly halves in your team.


I don't know if you have ever played rugby, but I was brought up to respect the ref. You may disagree with him on the pitch but you agree with his decision.