Do Ulster have enough support for an expanded Ravenhill?

First topic message reminder :

I'm going to throw this one out there.......

After attending the Leinster game last Friday I have a few concerns about the plans to expand Ravenhill to 18,000 capacity.

The atmosphere was really poor at the memorial end against Leinster. It seemed like quite a few people there knew very little about rugby and weren't really following the game. Silence wasn't being observed for the place kicks by quite a few.

Now given that this was the last home game of the season and assuming that this was a bigger than average crowd I would be questioning how many genuine Ulster rugby and genuine rugby fans are out there right now, who will attend regular games and can we actually fill a bigger ground on a regular basis?

Will Ravenhill lose some of its atmosphere? Are there more genuine fans out there and if so why aren't they attending the games now?

Personally I think Ulster still have a lot of work to do to tap into the growing popularity of rugby union in Ireland and gain cross community support across the province.

Having been in Limerick recently and seen the infrastucture at Thomond and the community support that Munster have Ulster have a long, long way to go as a brand and an organisation.

Reaching the HEC final would be a massive boost and generate a lot of interest but I think Ulster still have to work a lot harder because I'm not convinced that just relying on their core support from traditional rugby areas will be enough, from a player or fan base perspective to build a rugby club which will be able to match Munster and Leinster in the long term.

I was massively frustrated to see both Union flags being waved at Thomond and to recently see a person in a local supermarket wearing a Munster jersey. The idea that anyone, casual fan, or otherwise, in Ulster would support Munster before their own province fills me with deep frustration. These are small things but they are symbolic of the problems that Ulster need to overcome if we want to achieve Logan and Humphreys vision.

Why are Ulster flags not made readily available to fans, the way they are for Munster fans?

The Kukri store at Ravenhill had no power generator on Friday night and was lit by an assistant holding a hand torch FFS. Would that happen in Munster or Leinster a week out from a HEC SF?

Friday night games work best for the majority of Ulster supporters, understandably, but for fans in the West it is difficult to make the kick off at 7.05 pm. Munster at least make some effort to cater for fans in Cork, are Ulster branch trying hard enough to accommodate fans from across the province?

In terms of PR there seems to be a lot of hype around this Christian thing right now. Not that there's anything wrong with being a Christian, but there does seem to be often a big descrepancy between how the club and it's fans are percieved in the media and the actual reality. The McLaughlin thing obviously was a PR disaster so clearly there are big improvement needed on how the club deal with media.

Too often the term NI and Ulster is used interchangably from an Ulster perspective, which again is a small thing but it doesn't promote the image that Ulster are representing all of the 9 counties.

Small things but they add up and if we want to be the best then we need have high standards.

Anyways don't want to sound negative. There's a SF to be won and its a great time to be an Ulster fan, but looking forward I want us to be the best and we have a lot to work on to match Munster and Leinster, off the pitch as well as on it.

There's much more knowledgeable Ulster fans on here so I'd be interested on what others think.

SUFTUM !

Ulster Juniors team to play Connacht named
Dromore RFC on Saturday 28th April (kick off 2.30pm)

For those rugby enthusiasts who would rather avoid the mad dash to Dublin why not call into Dromore and support the other Ulster side and watch the Edinburugh game on a big screen in the clubhouse afterwards.

ULSTER JUNIOR XV & REPLACEMENTS TO FACE CONNACHT
1) AARON RAMAGE (Ballymoney)
2) MAL ALLISTER (Portadown)
3) PHIL MOORE (Clogher Valley)
4) DAVID SHARKEY (Clogher Valley)
5) STEPHEN MCREYNOLDS (CIYMS)
6) KEN MCCOMBE (Donaghadee)
7) DAVID CAMPBELL (Ballymoney)
8) ANDREW KELLY (Grosvenor)
9) SCOTT NELSON (Ballymoney)
10) BEN HENDERSON (Ballymoney)
11) NIALL IRWIN (Coleraine)
12) WAYNE LYONS (Clogher Valley)
13) GARY CLOTWORTHY (Ballyclare)
14) PHIL CARTMILL (Cooke)
15) CORMAC MCCARTNEY (Ballymoney)

16) LEE MOODY (Academy)
17) MARK SMYTH (Omagh)
18) DANIEL LAIRD (Academy)
19) CHRIS HAMILTON (Donaghadee)
20) ALLY LOCKHART (Donaghadee)
21) ALAN WHITCROFT (UUC)
22) CHRIS COUSENS (Portadown)

5 Ballymoney players on the team. That's awesome and it makes me very proud

I can't help thinking though that the date and time for this game is all wrong. Surely this is one occasion where the amateur game has to realise that it might just be better to look for a postponement.

Connacht were asked to change times but apparently they said no, bit sad

Methinks Connacht may just have written the Ulster teamtalk.

Just realised our number 8 there is my best mates brother. Strong as an ox apparently. Hope they go well.

red_stag wrote:I have to say, if I were involved with marketing Ulster I would be promoting a slow transition from white to yellow. Yellow flags (the yellow flag with red hard), yellow jerseys with red trimming. Its a serious colour in terms of visual impact.

I'd also be handing out big red foam "hand of Ulster" for people especialy kids.

Who knows in the future you could have a whole see of gold trimmed with red across a modern Ravenhill - something like Perpignan do. If done at once it would be a disaster but if done right could be a masterstroke.

White is a more unusual colour in sport so I think that is an advantage for Ulster. It makes them stand out. No change needed I think.

It has been scientifically proven that red is the colour that excites people most. It's no coincidence that teams who play in red tend to be more successful. Ulster should wear red again for the final!

To answer the OPs question I think we do!!!!

rodders wrote:To answer the OPs question I think we do!!!!

Lets just wait until we are playing a Rabo game on a wet and windy Friday night in December or January. Lets see how many of the 40,000 (or 2% of the population) turn out then. Or should we apply to the IRFU to have all our matches in The Aviva.

I would love to have done a poll on Saturday to find out just how many of the supporters actually have been to Ravenhill.

I also think we need to come up with a much more difficult signature song. Too easy for bandwaggoners to learn SUFTUM!.

Good points Rava but don't burst my bubble man!

This snobbery against bandwaggoners sickens me whenever I read it. I have a friend who got into rugby in her fortys but was ashamed of going to the Leinster matches because she expected derision for only supporting them from a few years ago after their first H cup. Now she's a regular supporter but if people like you spoke to her at her first trips to the RDS she'd never have gone back.

Do you not want new fans? If you sneer at new fans and make them feel like fakes and unwelcome then you can be damned sure that they won't show up at Ravenhill.

Try changing your attitude and see how great it is that Ulster is attracting new fans to the game. Some of them won't show up regularly but some will. It's how fan bases grow. Be glad of every single one of the.

Intotouch wrote:This snobbery against bandwaggoners sickens me whenever I read it.

I'm all for new fans, what I don't like is people not respecting the traditions of the game and club...booing or talking during place kicks etc., not respecting opposition players and support, or people turning up and taking no interest in the game -not cheering, singing, clapping etc.

It kills the atmosphere and gives a poor impression of the club and game.

Some of the chants sang to the Edinburgh fans at the Aviva were disgraceful.

Personally I think we can do without people like that but thats just my opinion.

I'm a bandwagon fan. Only started watching rugby when Ireland started to win more games in the early 00's. Was impressed by O'Driscoll and co. Realized I liked it. Even then only watched the 6 Nations. Started watching Leinster a few years later around the time of the win away in Toulouse and the Leinster v Munster semi in '06.

I quickly learned the traditions of the game. Gradually learned all the rules (with the help of playing rugby on the Playstation). A bandwagon fan can easily become a die hard supporter. Welcome the bandwagon fans. Shush them if they boo. They'll soon learn (and no stadium has a complete absence of booing anyway). Absorb them, and turn your merry band of supporters into an army that the team can draw strength from, and the opposition can be intimidated by.

OK well there's bandwagon fans and bandwagon fans. Maybe I'm a bandwagon fan too, I can't quite remember.

I don't like to see jeering of kickers or football style chants at opposition supporters.

The first game I went to was not until I was 12 - London Welsh.

Does that make me a bandwagon fan ?

Probably Geoff.

Bandwagon is the wrong word.... people who are not really interested in the game, the outcome of the game and/or learning the game would be who I would have a gripe with.

Its not about status or class or social background.

I'm a first generation fan myself and love to see the game widen its appeal but to me its important that the traditions of the game aren't lost just to sell more tickets.

Bandwagon implies that you are only on board because of the glory. If these 'bandwagoners' decide to continue following Ulster come September then they are no longer bandwagoners. True Bandwagoners will not appear again until the next time we are in a heiny semi.

As for me, I'm a relative newbie. probably only 5/6 years as a real supporter. I could probably only name 4/5 players of the 1999 year.

Clivemcl - Which ones?

Intotouch wrote:This snobbery against bandwaggoners sickens me whenever I read it. I have a friend who got into rugby in her fortys but was ashamed of going to the Leinster matches because she expected derision for only supporting them from a few years ago after their first H cup. Now she's a regular supporter but if people like you spoke to her at her first trips to the RDS she'd never have gone back.

I have absolutely zero problem whatsoever with people like this- in fact, I think it's brilliant.

I have a massive problem with people who turn up and behave like they are at a football match i.e. booing the ref, directing Muppet chats at the opposition support, getting overly drunk, not respecting the goal kickers, not applauding good play by the opposition etc.

That's what a bandwagon fan is- I don't care if you're new to rugby and don't understand all the nuances of the sport. You are quite welcome. No, I care if you're new to rugby and don't buy into the ethos of respect that sets the game apart.

The Great Aukster wrote:Clivemcl - Which ones?

Haha, which players? Ummm.... Humpries maggs ward bell mason. And I could be wrong on some of those! lol.

You are

As mentioned above provided they behave ok I dont mind.
Even if we turn 3% of them into new fans thats a 1,000 increase in gates.
That is the long term benefit of such high profile matches

Wrong on Maggs Clive. It was Jan Cunningham alongside Jonny Bell in the centre, his brother Bryn was on the bench (I think?).

What about the Stephen McKintys, Rab Irwins, Gary Longwells, Sheldon Coulters, Justin Fitzpatricks, Andy Parks, Andy Matchetts and Allen Clarkes of this world?

clivemcl wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Clivemcl - Which ones?

Haha, which players? Ummm.... Humpries maggs ward bell mason. And I could be wrong on some of those! lol.

I'm sure you actually know far more than that!
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-1999-where-are-they-now-14162493.html

Notch wrote:

Intotouch wrote:This snobbery against bandwaggoners sickens me whenever I read it. I have a friend who got into rugby in her fortys but was ashamed of going to the Leinster matches because she expected derision for only supporting them from a few years ago after their first H cup. Now she's a regular supporter but if people like you spoke to her at her first trips to the RDS she'd never have gone back.

I have absolutely zero problem whatsoever with people like this- in fact, I think it's brilliant.

I have a massive problem with people who turn up and behave like they are at a football match i.e. booing the ref, directing Muppet chats at the opposition support, getting overly drunk, not respecting the goal kickers, not applauding good play by the opposition etc.

That's what a bandwagon fan is- I don't care if you're new to rugby and don't understand all the nuances of the sport. You are quite welcome. No, I care if you're new to rugby and don't buy into the ethos of respect that sets the game apart.

Well said Notch, thats my view as well sorry if I didn't articulate it very well before.

The Great Aukster wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Clivemcl - Which ones?

Haha, which players? Ummm.... Humpries maggs ward bell mason. And I could be wrong on some of those! lol.

I'm sure you actually know far more than that!
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-1999-where-are-they-now-14162493.html

Out of that list theres 11 i've never even heard of in my life!

Notch wrote:Wrong on Maggs Clive. It was Jan Cunningham alongside Jonny Bell in the centre, his brother Bryn was on the bench (I think?).

What about the Stephen McKintys, Rab Irwins, Gary Longwells, Sheldon Coulters, Justin Fitzpatricks, Andy Parks, Andy Matchetts and Allen Clarkes of this world?

You forgot Tony McWhirter. Ballymoney man. I played a few games with his dad Willis.

McWhirter has been on BBC NI as a pundit for a few Ulster games hasn't he?

Not may would have Clive; thats why the 1999 team will always be unique in the history of the Cup. A handful of very good players with semi-professionals and journeymen nobody gave a chance to.

Any body watch that reunion thing they did a few seasons ago on BBCNI?

McWhirters always on BBCNI.

On another note, didn't we wear red against Saints last season? I wonder will we do the same for the final?

Nope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjKPGOSShQg

Nope to which one?

To us wearing red against saints. We probably won't wear red in the final, but I can't see the future!

I would be very doubtful about us wearing anything but White for the final.

The UR management seem to have gone out of their way to try to dissassociate this years team from 1999.

When did we wear red then?

I definitely haven't dreamt this up have I??

We wore red in Clermont because Clermont wear white in this competition.

Ah ok its flooding back to me now........

Notch wrote:We wore red in Clermont because Clermont wear white in this competition.

Why did we wear red in Clermount though isnt protocol for te home team to wear a change strip when theres a clash?

You can hardly complain about Clive not remembering 13 years ago.

Rodders cant remember a few months ago

Hardly any consolation Rodders but it only gets worse as you get older..ask Rava

Insulting, mildly, three fellow posters in one post - is this a record

All Ulstermen too

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:We wore red in Clermont because Clermont wear white in this competition.

Why did we wear red in Clermount though isnt protocol for te home team to wear a change strip when theres a clash?

It is the tradition in test rugby. Not in in club rugby. I think.

geoff998rugby wrote:You can hardly complain about Clive not remembering 13 years ago.

Rodders cant remember a few months ago

Hardly any consolation Rodders but it only gets worse as you get older..ask Rava

Insulting, mildly, three fellow posters in one post - is this a record

All Ulstermen too

True that

What's your name again?

geoff998rugby wrote:You can hardly complain about Clive not remembering 13 years ago.

Rodders cant remember a few months ago

In fairness Geoff there's been a lot to remember lately!!

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:We wore red in Clermont because Clermont wear white in this competition.

Why did we wear red in Clermount though isnt protocol for te home team to wear a change strip when theres a clash?

I am almost certain that we wore red as a tribute to the 1999 team?

...but as has been pointed out already my memory is nearly as bad as Rava's.....

geoff998rugby wrote:You can hardly complain about Clive not remembering 13 years ago.

Rodders cant remember a few months ago

Hardly any consolation Rodders but it only gets worse as you get older..ask Rava

Insulting, mildly, three fellow posters in one post - is this a record

All Ulstermen too

Not a case of not remembering, i never knew the info to start with in order to forget!

Also, who is Blane McIlroy?? Give me the goss!

rodders wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:We wore red in Clermont because Clermont wear white in this competition.

Why did we wear red in Clermount though isnt protocol for te home team to wear a change strip when theres a clash?

I am almost certain that we wore red as a tribute to the 1999 team?

...but as has been pointed out already my memory is nearly as bad as Rava's.....

Negative, we wore red for the same reason Clermont wore blue in Belfast. Clash of strips. Tradition applies to test rugby, not ERC.

The Great Aukster wrote:It has been scientifically proven that red is the colour that excites people most. It's no coincidence that teams who play in red tend to be more successful. Ulster should wear red again for the final!

HMMMMMMM. Not too sure about that Ausk...

Gibson wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:It has been scientifically proven that red is the colour that excites people most. It's no coincidence that teams who play in red tend to be more successful. Ulster should wear red again for the final!

HMMMMMMM. Not too sure about that Ausk...

No really Gisb, it's called the Luscher colour test - blue is the opposite of red, as a calming colour. Ever wondered why they don't have a blue light district in Amsterdam? It's right that Leinster wear blue but Ulster should wear red as it's more in keeping with their character.

Ever wonder why their not called red movies? Because blue is better to watch.

Well, that put me in my place.

And my apologies for the Ausk... Auks.

I like the way you did it too.

Every time I see your name (one of the best on here), I think of The Great Ausketeer. Dont aks me why... I dont know why.

Love & Peace.
Gisb

P.S. You going to the game Big Man?

Blane McIlroy is a 20 or 21 year old scrum half in the academy.

He played in the same school side as Paddy Jackson, part of the season at 15 and part at 9.

He has Under 19 and Under 20 caps for Ireland.

I think it would be fair to say that he hasn't progressed at the same rate as Jackson and has had a few less than fantastic performances but was highly thought of.

I wouldn't say I'm a bandwagoner but I've only recently started to get into rugby, like the last 4/5 years and I've only started going to matches in the last year and a half.
From my very first match a Ravenhill I can say that the people have been nothing but nice to me and very welcoming. I was wary at the beginning that I'd be seen as someone who had no clue what was going on and that the regular fans would turn their nose up at me. I was very wrong. I have met some very lovely people there who I continue to meet up with when I get the chance to go to matches
I'm all for new fans but I agree that traditions should be upheld such as silence for the kickers, etc (although we all had to learn somewhere).

Gibson wrote:Well, that put me in my place.

And my apologies for the Ausk... Auks.

I like the way you did it too.

Every time I see your name (one of the best on here), I think of The Great Ausketeer. Dont aks me why... I dont know why.

Love & Peace.
Gisb

P.S. You going to the game Big Man?

No need to apologise - the Ausketeer fits perfectly with my swashbuckling persona. Perhaps my Freudian slip for Guy of Gisborne also works well for the Cup final? Everyone loves the Robin Hood underdogs taking on the aristocratic overlords and distributing the rugby wealth a bit more widely. Sadly I won't be able to see in person the passionate red love of Ulster shatter the tranquil blue peace of Leinster at Twickers, bummer but then I won't need the consolation of the craic to lift my spirits!

Enjoy the day
Ausk

Auk, I will be sitting beside him and I will be wearing a Red Ulster jersey