Shane Williams, a blight on the game?

First topic message reminder :

So after 136 caps Shane Williams is set to hang up his boots at the end of the season and on the weekend the NH's greatest tryscoring WUM decided to bow out bringing the game in to disrepute for the 55th time in his Ospreys career.

Watch the clip below and i'm sure just like me you'll be disgusted by the flagrent show boating, over the top pre try celebrations and the disrespect shown in his finishing ash splash.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/04/2521/shane-williams-scores-in-extra-time-in-farewell-home-game-for-ospreys

Good bye Shane, you've been an incredible advert for the game but your lack of respect scoring tries is the WORST THING RUGBY HAS EVER SEEN.

Don't have access unfortunately.

HammerofThunor wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Funny how grammar is apparently so important to language when you're an adult and yet babies learn their language mostly from "GoogiGoogiGoo!" and listening to their parents having a chat about the "F***ker wot did drove right out in front'im'mee basterdin' jeep just as I was givin' it lip to the c***behind me who blew her fookin' horn at me for fookin' goin' too fookin' slow up the one-way street in the wrong sh**tin' direction!"

Isn't it due to the baby learning the sounds that make up a language. They need to learn them before learning how the communicate. Can't remember what they're call but's they're the reason some oriental people can't tell the difference between 'l' and 'r'. They sound exactly the same to them because they didn't learn the difference as infants.

Yes, they're learning the phonetics and body language of the speaker before they truly understand the words. Rather like a dog 'fetching' a stick when he doesn't really even know what 'fetch' means. He's listening to a familiar grunt, with a familiar look in the owner's eye, a familiar body position as the owner encourages him... and he goes get the stick.

But this is the natural way to learn a language, living through it - and yet in class, the whole exercise changes when education scientists get their hands on it - and then it becomes cold, disjointed, isolated grammar work and abstract book learning to acquire a new language; learning its science before you actually know what it means - the antithesis to how language is naturally acquired.

I love how absurd it is that you're allowed to make some sounds on TV but not others. You can say 'feck' but not a very similar word. You can say 'cant' but not a very similar word. It's ridiculous. They're just noises, ultimately.

I assume the powers think that Feck doesn't mean the same thing as F(you-cee-kay)

The really funny thing is that 'f(you-cee-kay) seldom ever does mean what the powers assume it means.

The word has changed through the ages and is now much more a simple exclamation mark than it is a descriptive word for mating.

And I should effing know, I'm Irish - we use it to describe everything and say everything!

Basically, at age 7 months, children are equally responsive to native and non-native consonant sounds and distinguish (by playing one sound a lot then suddenly changing it slightly and seeing if the infant registers surprise) subtleties in either, and at age 11 months they mostly become insensitive to non-native sounds (with some variation depending on how sensitive they were originally) and they become more responsive to slight changes in native sounds.

SecretFly wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Funny how grammar is apparently so important to language when you're an adult and yet babies learn their language mostly from "GoogiGoogiGoo!" and listening to their parents having a chat about the "F***ker wot did drove right out in front'im'mee basterdin' jeep just as I was givin' it lip to the c***behind me who blew her fookin' horn at me for fookin' goin' too fookin' slow up the one-way street in the wrong sh**tin' direction!"

Isn't it due to the baby learning the sounds that make up a language. They need to learn them before learning how the communicate. Can't remember what they're call but's they're the reason some oriental people can't tell the difference between 'l' and 'r'. They sound exactly the same to them because they didn't learn the difference as infants.

Yes, they're learning the phonetics and body language of the speaker before they truly understand the words. Rather like a dog 'fetching' a stick when he doesn't really even know what 'fetch' means. He's listening to a familiar grunt, with a familiar look in the owner's eye, a familiar body position as the owner encourages him... and he goes get the stick.

But this is the natural way to learn a language, living through it - and yet in class, the whole exercise changes when education scientists get their hands on it - and then it becomes cold, disjointed, isolated grammar work and abstract book learning to acquire a new language; learning its science before you actually know what it means - the antithesis to how language is naturally acquired.

Well that's all language (or the vocabulary part) is, associating (commonly between a group of individuals) an object or action or quality with a sound or shape through noticing a correlation between the use of the sound and the thing it represents and other associations with it and the reaction of others through trial and error. What is interesting is whether language precedes conscious thought and how bilingual people think (in which language as our conscious thoughts are mostly in a language). My German friend says that most of the time he thinks in German but when he has been in England and not speaking German for a while his thoughts start to occur in English and this allows for subtly different patterns of thought.

I'm bilingual (Welsh and English). If I'm asking myself a question in my head, I ask in English. Otherwise I don't think in either language, I think in thoughts.

Risca Rev wrote:

AlastairW wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

AlastairW wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Quite suprised at this coming from any England supporter, as their players overcelebrate every single try at every level, (International, U20, U18, 7's, Premiership...)

..... and we have the first bite!

Absolutley no suprise from who as well.

That's a bite in itself, claiming that you 'have a bite.' BTW, not sure I have even seen you around here before.

Don't you worry, I knew what the article intent was, just thought I'd put a simple fact out there whilst we were on the subject . Besides, it's old now seeing as it was already done by HERSH. Find some new material, change the record 'cause your making us yawn to death .

#bloodgate

Ahhh so tetchy Morgan; so defensive, someting to constantly prove eh? so typically welsh. That massive chip on your shoulder.

You keep trolling and rising to troll bait - oh, i mean you obvious knowing of the article intent, and i'll keep laughing at you for it. I see that university isn't teaching you how to spot tongue-in-cheek anything, then again considering it's location wouldn't be up to teaching much.

Probably up for teaching the difference between it's and its though. Or how to spell surprise and absolutely correctly.

Nice one Rev .

Trust, I wasn't being serious. I attempted to wind up the guys attempting to wind up. BTW, I find that 'welsh chips on shoulder, etc...' gets used too often on V2, when there is no need for it. Maybe we can add that to the pile along with you Ali?

The University I attend is the best in the UK for teaching Multimedia/Graphics. But a lot tends to hinge on the abilities of individual students rather than where they study.

And again, I still don't know who you are, you seem to be one of the newer poster but your postings indicate you are familiar with me. Are you a banned user returning?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm bilingual (Welsh and English). If I'm asking myself a question in my head, I ask in English. Otherwise I don't think in either language, I think in thoughts.

My mother-in-law wasn't taught Welsh as a kid by her father (mother only spoke English) because her mum thought it would confuse the kids. I'm pretty sure the opposite is true (my wife (bilingual) picks languages up much quicker than I do (monolingual).

Funnily enough we've been looking through the census records and the welsh ones tend to say what language is spoken. Where both parents speak Welsh and English the kids speak both. Quite a few times only the father speaks Welsh and it wasn't passed on. Seems to be the mother who makes the decision (from 1850-1960). Unless it's because the father isn't at home to teach them the Welsh.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm bilingual (Welsh and English). If I'm asking myself a question in my head, I ask in English. Otherwise I don't think in either language, I think in thoughts.

My mother-in-law wasn't taught Welsh as a kid by her father (mother only spoke English) because her mum thought it would confuse the kids. I'm pretty sure the opposite is true (my wife (bilingual) picks languages up much quicker than I do (monolingual).

Funnily enough we've been looking through the census records and the welsh ones tend to say what language is spoken. Where both parents speak Welsh and English the kids speak both. Quite a few times only the father speaks Welsh and it wasn't passed on. Seems to be the mother who makes the decision (from 1850-1960). Unless it's because the father isn't at home to teach them the Welsh.

I'd guess it'd be because the basis that any deliberate teaching would be working on would be Welsh or English learnt by the child as they develop and in households where the only 1 parent spoke Welsh, it wouldn't be used at home and there would be no exposure to pick up from

Wow I was expecting a thread about the rights and wrongs of Shane Williams but what I've stumbled across is the 'i know everything about learning, children and language' thread. It's funny how a title can deceive you like that...

mckay1402 wrote:Wow I was expecting a thread about the rights and wrongs of Shane Williams but what I've stumbled across is the 'i know everything about learning, children and language' thread. It's funny how a title can deceive you like that...

I'm sure we've all done the rights and wrongs of Shane somewhere above there...so we've moved on to more relevant issues
And why go to the trouble of adding "learning", "children" and "language"??? I'd be happy to just honestly admit "I know everything" and leave it there