Murray blazing through in Barcelona

First topic message reminder :

Anyone watching Murray vs Giraldo?

Murray 4-1 up in the first set and presumably in cruise control.

lydian wrote:Yeah you feel Murray's talent hasnt been nurtured properly...I blame McLagan team...focused on turning him into a muscle machine to the detriment of the guile he has...he should have been another Mecir, insetad they tried to turn him into Nadal but Nadal is a one-off.

But he did train in Spain before McLagan showed up, under Judy's watchful eye. Worried about Raonic a bit with easy power and injuries he has had so far, it is a fragile career.

Agreed

Raonic is the one to watch you know...no-one will want to face the guy at Wimb and USO at this rate.

I don't know that the decision to muscle up was entirely his team - Murray was quite keen. I remember after losing to Nadal at Wimbledon he gave a couple of interviews about how he needed to catch up with Rafa physically. Bikram yoga and bicep baring followed...

P.S. lydian I do hope you realise Murray's ruin is all Nadal's fault...

Fair point reckoner...Murray has to agree to it of course, or maybe it was even his idea...either way he chose the muscle route.

lol...yeah all thats wrong in tennis is Nadal's fault! I find it funny though that Murray tried to copy Nadal when Nadal was always a natural on the physical side (watch videos of him as a 11 yr old and see the size of his calves and torso even then...). You cant copy what inherently makes someone successful...whether its Federer's grace/easy-flowing strokes or Nadal's unreal ability to retrieve, stay in the point as well as THAT 5000rpm forehand. Murray tried to be other people...not his own man. Not that its not been without success but it still feels a shame given the obvious talent he had in moving people around, etc, and soft hands around the net why he didnt rely more - or rather trust more -on his cat-mouse ability, That could have made him a more difficult threat against the top 3. And lets face it his wins over them seem to be more and more distant...either they have got better or he has rescinded. Due to focus on the physical side too much...?

I kinda agree with that, but hey perhaps Lendl can make a difference, let's see how the year pans out.

Murray living up to his push and run tag. The man lives off unforced errors. I foresee a very poor clay season for the number foe!

I cant really understand why Andy does not perform better on clay than he does he spent 2 years here in Spain training alongside Rafa.. I would have thought he would have found it a natural surface for him... but he has yet to prove himself on this surface IMO he does not look at all confident

I can. He can't put any weight behind his shots. And, the opponent knows where he's going to hit the ball everytime. Surely its only a matter of time before he's dropping down.

Andy achillies on clay.....Big FH!!!

Andy achillies on clay.....Big FH!!!

So everything else, apart from that, is in perfect working order??

I think the 2 years on clay at Barcelona Academy made him a better clay player no doubt but he's not a natural clay player...his movement on the surface looks clumsy at times....and this is inherently because he played on non-clay for most of his upbringing...unlike Federer, Nadal, Djokovic...you can tell by the way they move on the surface its natural to them.

lydian wrote:I think the 2 years on clay at Barcelona Academy made him a better clay player no doubt but he's not a natural clay player...his movement on the surface looks clumsy at times....and this is inherently because he played on non-clay for most of his upbringing...unlike Federer, Nadal, Djokovic...you can tell by the way they move on the surface its natural to them.

Spot on. The only surprise for me is that anyone is surprised by this result. Murray is not the same player on this surface, the results prove that. A lot of top 20 players could beat Andy on clay, because he's simply not as good on clay. His run on clay last year was a great for Andy, and I'll be surprised if he ever betters it. Quarters at RG would be a good result for him.

He's a serious contender for all big tournaments, unless its on a clay court. This result changes nothing for me.

Agree also Danny...and I remember a discussion a couple of weeks back where someone said his good run last year was more or less down to a good draw...something I tend to agree with. Lets see if he can match his 2011 clay results this year...yes QF level feels about right for him at RG and no disgrace, his chances for major wins lie elsehwere.

See Nadal won 6-2 6-2 vs Tipsy without too much effort. Ferrer did well to win vs Lopez after saving 3 MPs. Raonic vs Ferrer will be interesting...Nadal vs prob. Verdasco less so.

lydian wrote:... his good run last year was more or less down to a good draw...

Warm balls? ______________ [Ker........ching! £].

Agree with all of that lydian. The facts are he has never reached a clay final, or beaten any of the top 3 on clay. Ok, he gave Nadal a good test last year and could (should) have beaten Novak, but they are exceptions.

Last year at RG may have been a good draw, I can't remember him facing many huge hitters and when Murray doesn't move well - which is very often on clay - he is always susceptible to big hitters.

Even if he wins slams, which i think he can and will, I don't think he'll ever reach world number 1 as the other 3 will always pick up way more points on clay. If he repeats last years RG semi final it would be a sensational result for him, but he isn't a realistic RG contender.

lags72 wrote:Now you go & prove me wrong ic....

Lags My Nation's young warrior proved you wrong, what a game from Mr.MR. He is playing great tennis, hope he doesnt catch up injury like Del Boy did, I want DP and MR to add to the big four list.

lydian wrote:Fair point reckoner...Murray has to agree to it of course, or maybe it was even his idea...either way he chose the muscle route.

lol...yeah all thats wrong in tennis is Nadal's fault! I find it funny though that Murray tried to copy Nadal when Nadal was always a natural on the physical side (watch videos of him as a 11 yr old and see the size of his calves and torso even then...). You cant copy what inherently makes someone successful...whether its Federer's grace/easy-flowing strokes or Nadal's unreal ability to retrieve, stay in the point as well as THAT 5000rpm forehand. Murray tried to be other people...not his own man. Not that its not been without success but it still feels a shame given the obvious talent he had in moving people around, etc, and soft hands around the net why he didnt rely more - or rather trust more -on his cat-mouse ability, That could have made him a more difficult threat against the top 3. And lets face it his wins over them seem to be more and more distant...either they have got better or he has rescinded. Due to focus on the physical side too much...?

Well Summed up Lydian .

The Problem of Murray being someone's man rather than his own, he is trying to clone somebody rather than embarking his own brand, Take Nole for example, he took his own brand believed it even on dull years and now he is the man to beat. Hope Lendl make Murray understand what it is to be oneself.

Meanwhile I am so so excited for Mr.MR, How fun it would be if he go on to topple the beast in the finals ? , beating Rafa in clay final is a very big achievement if not the biggest achievement.

Watching that Nadal match earlier.

What ridiculous hitting!! I am sorry. No-one can call that man un-talented. The BH was hit with so much venom and that is looking like it's 2010 version.

I would be surprised if Nadal did not win Madrid, Rome or Roland Garros.

Cheers invisiblecoolers

Yeah it's a shame Murray didn't try to build his own brand...and the fact he didn't try to points to perhaps a weaker fundamental confidence/mentality than the top 3. In embracing the physical side he's kind of part Nadal and part Djokovic but not as good as either...so Djakal-lite kind of. Whereas he could have been more Mecir-plus. Santoro showed how effective that style of cat and mouse play could be without the power Murray has...he could have been so much different to other players...I remember when he first emerged and beat Roddick by outfoxing him. But he chose to try to emulate Nadal's genetic makeup through protein shakes and fitness regimes...and in the process lost that x-factor ingredient he had.

Anyway...yes, a MR win would catapult him to the stratosphere but I just don't see it. Nadal is a different fish to Murray. But he is the future of tennis you feel..the easy power he has is amazing...kind of raw...reminds me of Scud a little. He hit a serve at 149 mph today...but it was his FH that really blew Murray away. For a 6'5 guy he moves pretty well too...and he's ultra aggressive and good around the net. Besides the fact he has a DHBh he reminds me of a modern Sampras, and kind of that swinging gait that Pete had too. This guy could well be top6 by end of year IF he breaks through at the slams this year...and you feel the breakthroughs are coming...including his first win over a top 8 player today. But I don't see him beatin Nadal in this renewed form on clay...Nadal is starting to look like he used to...breezing through clay events losing barely any games per match.

It's Raonic's movement that is so surprising for a big man. He doesn't actually seem big because he looks well proportioned but when he is next to someone ... big fella. I fear that he will have an injury plagued career (hips etc) - so hopefully his "team" will handle him carefully.

I think MR is a huge talent, and yes he got his first win over a top 4 player today... But remember he has beaten Murray on clay. I don't think it's quite the breakthrough that people are making out.

If the whole tour was played on clay, where would Murray be ranked? Inside the top 10 probably, but not by much.

On grass or hard courts there is a clear top 4 ahead of the rest. On clay there is a top 3. When he beats any of the top 3 on clay, or any of the top 4 on grass or hard, then he'll have his breakthrough win.

That's not a downer on Murray or MR, I think he has the tools to challenge the top guys... But this isn't a breakthrough win because a lot of top 10 - 15 guys could beat Murray on this surface.

I would be surprised if Nadal did not win Madrid, Rome or Roland Garros.

He surprised me more when he flopped the 5th set AO after being up 4-2

It's Raonic's movement that is so surprising for a big man.

Its still not that good. He can thank his huge wingspan more than his feet. Majoriy of his wins seem to be 6-4 7-6 aswell, sampras-clone.