PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
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PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
First topic message reminder :
1).The Zurich Classic of New Orleans continued it's new lease on life last weekend with a decent field, a fine leaderboard, exciting finish and a deserving winner - first-timer Jason Dufner, the third first-time winner of the season.
New Orleans was once a popular Tour stop but a change of course, continued messing around of the dates, and some awful weather resulted in progressively weaker fields and uncertainty about its future. Thankfully "Zurich" stepped in, the course has matured somewhat (looked really good last week) and fields are steadily improving. Credit also to the Tour veterans who have supported the tournament through thick and mostly thin: David Toms, Jerry Kelly and Stricker among them. Now the future is looking very bright.
2).A rare appearance from Stricker in an increasingly light schedule. He's just playing The Players and (defending at) Memorial before his return to Olympic Club for the US Open, where he contended in 1998 before finishing 5th.
3).Despite the best efforts of Ernie Els (a limp conclusion to a fine tournament) we are still to see the first "International" win on Tour this season - six runner-up finishes from those eligible for Presidents Cup selection, but nary a winner.
4).Consolation for Ernie will almost certainly be a berth in the owgr Top 60 in three weeks time and qualification for the US Open. And that will save the USGA from having to offer him an invitation, for this year at least.
5).Another good week for Luke Donald as he put Augusta and Hilton Head disappointments behind him. No doubt that Luke is one of my favourite golfers, but I see he's leaving himself open to criticism in his statement that "it would be great to have more (events) in England". "With myself, Lee, Justin Rose, Ian Poulter and others from Britain, it makes sense to me to push for another event."
No question about that but Celtic Manor is only just across the border and recent support by these players has been conspicuous by its absence, Luke's sop to Montgomerie in 2010 apart. And there's the rub for sponsors: If you build it, will they come? And the answer from "Luke, Lee, Justin Rose, Ian Poulter" and so many others (McDowell excepted) has been a resounding "No!".
Come on Luke, time to put your money (or at least your itinerary) where your mouth is.
6).Wells Fargo has come a long way from its early days running the westbound part of the Pony Express delivering express mail and banking services to California, its stagecoaches now replaced by a glittering banking empire and the successor to Wachovia, the original sponsor of the Charlotte stop on the PGA Tour. The Lone Ranger and all those who protected those mail runs would doubtless turn over in their graves had they seen the extent to which Wells Fargo has been the sinner, rather than the sinned against, these past few years, but none of the 156-strong field this week will give a monkey's about banking irregularities, taxing avoidance scandals and forced foreclosures as they tee it up at Quail Hollow for a few $mill of Wells Fargo's (or is it America's tax-payers'?) petty cash.
7).But you can't buy Tiger Woods. Oh no, no, no!
Tiger's had enough of inquisitions by the media prior to tournament play so now conducts a question/answer session via social media instead.
Read Geoff Shackleford's take on this latest snub to journalists in GolfWorld:
"It seems Team Tiger believes taking the questions you want and answering them in an edited video is the most effective way to use social media. But one of the main attractions of Twitter and Facebook - especially when it invloves the famous and admired - is the sense by participants that the interaction is genuine, spontaneous and open. 'We're probably a little bit behind with social media,' admitted (Tiger's agent Mark) Steinberg.
With this latest move, Team Tiger will continue to be so."
Sponsors must be delighted . . . . . .
8).Quail Hollow (the course, not a commentary on the first Bush's Vice President's understanding of international affairs) is an early 60's design by George Cobb redesigned by Tom Fazio in the nineties. CBS will wax orgasmic about the course, but it's not universally popular and its short par-4 eighth is a borderline ridiculous hole (though the short par-4 14th is a good 'un).
Phil Mickelson described the greens as "by far the worst-designed greens we play on Tour", and others have been equally uncharitable resulting in a somewhat disappointing field. Regardless, the PGA Championship is due here in 2017 and the tournament has the reputation as one of the best run of the year.
9).Rory, Lee, Hunter, Tiger and Phil lead the entry, but no other European-based pros are on hand, nor Scott, Els, Schwartzel, Poulter, McDowell, Garcia, Oosthuizen, Rose etc, etc. The list of Champions here includes Toms, Vijay, Furyk, Woods, McIlroy and Lucas Glover, while Mickelson has arguably the best record here among the non-winners. Some of the top pros are based in the Carolinas, but very few of them are showing much recent form and this looks a wide open event.
10).I wrote last week about one son of the Carolinas who sadly won't be with us this week, the Legend of Willie Mac (Will MacKenzie). A postscript to his costly double bogey on the last hole at San Antonio: In last week's Nationwide tournament in Georgia he outdid himself by falling from a lead halfway through his final round, six over par the rest of the way concluding with a triple bogey on the last. Of such stuff are careers made. And lost.
1).The Zurich Classic of New Orleans continued it's new lease on life last weekend with a decent field, a fine leaderboard, exciting finish and a deserving winner - first-timer Jason Dufner, the third first-time winner of the season.
New Orleans was once a popular Tour stop but a change of course, continued messing around of the dates, and some awful weather resulted in progressively weaker fields and uncertainty about its future. Thankfully "Zurich" stepped in, the course has matured somewhat (looked really good last week) and fields are steadily improving. Credit also to the Tour veterans who have supported the tournament through thick and mostly thin: David Toms, Jerry Kelly and Stricker among them. Now the future is looking very bright.
2).A rare appearance from Stricker in an increasingly light schedule. He's just playing The Players and (defending at) Memorial before his return to Olympic Club for the US Open, where he contended in 1998 before finishing 5th.
3).Despite the best efforts of Ernie Els (a limp conclusion to a fine tournament) we are still to see the first "International" win on Tour this season - six runner-up finishes from those eligible for Presidents Cup selection, but nary a winner.
4).Consolation for Ernie will almost certainly be a berth in the owgr Top 60 in three weeks time and qualification for the US Open. And that will save the USGA from having to offer him an invitation, for this year at least.
5).Another good week for Luke Donald as he put Augusta and Hilton Head disappointments behind him. No doubt that Luke is one of my favourite golfers, but I see he's leaving himself open to criticism in his statement that "it would be great to have more (events) in England". "With myself, Lee, Justin Rose, Ian Poulter and others from Britain, it makes sense to me to push for another event."
No question about that but Celtic Manor is only just across the border and recent support by these players has been conspicuous by its absence, Luke's sop to Montgomerie in 2010 apart. And there's the rub for sponsors: If you build it, will they come? And the answer from "Luke, Lee, Justin Rose, Ian Poulter" and so many others (McDowell excepted) has been a resounding "No!".
Come on Luke, time to put your money (or at least your itinerary) where your mouth is.
6).Wells Fargo has come a long way from its early days running the westbound part of the Pony Express delivering express mail and banking services to California, its stagecoaches now replaced by a glittering banking empire and the successor to Wachovia, the original sponsor of the Charlotte stop on the PGA Tour. The Lone Ranger and all those who protected those mail runs would doubtless turn over in their graves had they seen the extent to which Wells Fargo has been the sinner, rather than the sinned against, these past few years, but none of the 156-strong field this week will give a monkey's about banking irregularities, taxing avoidance scandals and forced foreclosures as they tee it up at Quail Hollow for a few $mill of Wells Fargo's (or is it America's tax-payers'?) petty cash.
7).But you can't buy Tiger Woods. Oh no, no, no!
Tiger's had enough of inquisitions by the media prior to tournament play so now conducts a question/answer session via social media instead.
Read Geoff Shackleford's take on this latest snub to journalists in GolfWorld:
"It seems Team Tiger believes taking the questions you want and answering them in an edited video is the most effective way to use social media. But one of the main attractions of Twitter and Facebook - especially when it invloves the famous and admired - is the sense by participants that the interaction is genuine, spontaneous and open. 'We're probably a little bit behind with social media,' admitted (Tiger's agent Mark) Steinberg.
With this latest move, Team Tiger will continue to be so."
Sponsors must be delighted . . . . . .
8).Quail Hollow (the course, not a commentary on the first Bush's Vice President's understanding of international affairs) is an early 60's design by George Cobb redesigned by Tom Fazio in the nineties. CBS will wax orgasmic about the course, but it's not universally popular and its short par-4 eighth is a borderline ridiculous hole (though the short par-4 14th is a good 'un).
Phil Mickelson described the greens as "by far the worst-designed greens we play on Tour", and others have been equally uncharitable resulting in a somewhat disappointing field. Regardless, the PGA Championship is due here in 2017 and the tournament has the reputation as one of the best run of the year.
9).Rory, Lee, Hunter, Tiger and Phil lead the entry, but no other European-based pros are on hand, nor Scott, Els, Schwartzel, Poulter, McDowell, Garcia, Oosthuizen, Rose etc, etc. The list of Champions here includes Toms, Vijay, Furyk, Woods, McIlroy and Lucas Glover, while Mickelson has arguably the best record here among the non-winners. Some of the top pros are based in the Carolinas, but very few of them are showing much recent form and this looks a wide open event.
10).I wrote last week about one son of the Carolinas who sadly won't be with us this week, the Legend of Willie Mac (Will MacKenzie). A postscript to his costly double bogey on the last hole at San Antonio: In last week's Nationwide tournament in Georgia he outdid himself by falling from a lead halfway through his final round, six over par the rest of the way concluding with a triple bogey on the last. Of such stuff are careers made. And lost.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
realist... :-)
+++++++++
Nope... European's may have invented golf and American's had their role by developing the "professional game"... but I'm glad it's finally seeing the [quality] growth "outside the colonies" it deserves. Sure I realize things are cyclical... but I tend to enjoy the times when there is more balance at the top of the rankings...
mystiroake
+++++++++++++
Yep... I know what you mean about English and the Majors. Don't know what it is, but it would be too bad to see Westwood get "Monty'd" and never win one. But maybe it's just a chance thing... so few majors to go around... maybe any country having a drought is just a normal thing.
But sometimes I wonder... maybe the attributes of consistency that lead some players to #1 rankings works against them in majors. Luke and Westy seem the type of players that are maybe a bit more likely to pass on the risky shot in order not to lose... instead of risking the high finish in an effort to take the win. Such a strategy translates into LOTS of high finishes, but maybe less wins, especially in Majors that have the deepest fields. And that's fine... until they run into a player that wins a lot. (or the generational player that wins all the time and is consistently excellent the rest of the time as well... as in Jack/Tiger were)
+++++++++
Nope... European's may have invented golf and American's had their role by developing the "professional game"... but I'm glad it's finally seeing the [quality] growth "outside the colonies" it deserves. Sure I realize things are cyclical... but I tend to enjoy the times when there is more balance at the top of the rankings...
mystiroake
+++++++++++++
Yep... I know what you mean about English and the Majors. Don't know what it is, but it would be too bad to see Westwood get "Monty'd" and never win one. But maybe it's just a chance thing... so few majors to go around... maybe any country having a drought is just a normal thing.
But sometimes I wonder... maybe the attributes of consistency that lead some players to #1 rankings works against them in majors. Luke and Westy seem the type of players that are maybe a bit more likely to pass on the risky shot in order not to lose... instead of risking the high finish in an effort to take the win. Such a strategy translates into LOTS of high finishes, but maybe less wins, especially in Majors that have the deepest fields. And that's fine... until they run into a player that wins a lot. (or the generational player that wins all the time and is consistently excellent the rest of the time as well... as in Jack/Tiger were)
robopz- Posts : 3604
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
'Morning Shotrock,
Meant to mention to you that GolfWorld featured "Jay Sigel's Philadelphia" in its weekly "hometown" feature a week or so ago, a word about Aronomink of course!
Decent showing by SO'H this week - he could be a dark horse for the Players if his putting is working.
Anyone know for certain what the position is with Casey Kerr caddying for Lee this week? Or Couples which I thought was the original plan??
Freddie sat out the Champers Houston event with flu, but is still listed in this week's Players field. But Westwood spoke in his press conference yesterday as if Kerr will be carrying for him at TPC.
What gives?
Meant to mention to you that GolfWorld featured "Jay Sigel's Philadelphia" in its weekly "hometown" feature a week or so ago, a word about Aronomink of course!
Decent showing by SO'H this week - he could be a dark horse for the Players if his putting is working.
Anyone know for certain what the position is with Casey Kerr caddying for Lee this week? Or Couples which I thought was the original plan??
Freddie sat out the Champers Houston event with flu, but is still listed in this week's Players field. But Westwood spoke in his press conference yesterday as if Kerr will be carrying for him at TPC.
What gives?
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont
Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Kwin - Jay Sigel had quite the run in the club championship in the 70's and 80's! Still plays there quite a bit; always a treat to see him in action on the course. I feel obliged to point out the club's spelling: Aronimink. Even the goofy Donald Ross society, however, spells it Aronomink on their website.
Yes, not bad for SO'H ... and I hope there's some sparks for the Players.
An Englishman to win a major? Even money it's this year: Donald and Westwood just playing at high levels that I can't imagine one or both won't be in the thick of things late Sunday afternoon on (you pick the) major weekend.
Yes, not bad for SO'H ... and I hope there's some sparks for the Players.
An Englishman to win a major? Even money it's this year: Donald and Westwood just playing at high levels that I can't imagine one or both won't be in the thick of things late Sunday afternoon on (you pick the) major weekend.
Shotrock- Posts : 3924
Join date : 2011-05-10
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Shotrock wrote:Super - So, you think golf isn't an American game? Think again.
Here's a fact: It's a game and it's "owned" by whoever is playing it at the time.
Not like America to bastardise history or claim something they don't deserve the credit for It's a British/European game played by other nations. Just as Cricket, Football (Soccer to you), Tennis, Rugby etc are.
Suppose the car, phone, tv, radar, helicopter, etc are all "American" inventions too because they use them too?
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Super - Who said golf was an "American" invention?
Shotrock- Posts : 3924
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Nobody, just as I didn't say that Britain "owned" it.
However I said it isn't an American game so by American's returning to near the top of the game, "normal order" cannot be restored.
However I said it isn't an American game so by American's returning to near the top of the game, "normal order" cannot be restored.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
It's a game. No one owns it, regardless of who invented it.
Normal order can absolutely be "restored" when someone's opinion about that order of things is just that - an opinion.
Not so complicated after all.
Shotrock- Posts : 3924
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Super
What does it matter who invented what?
Take a look at the OWGR's and it is clear the power lies with the PGA tour, only about 10 full time Europeans in the top 100.
Scotland grew the game up until the 1850's, then it was more of a british effort up until the early 1900's when the americans really joined the party. It is hard to argue that in the 20th century america did not see the biggest growth in the game.
Robo
Do you think Rory's current run of many top 3's but only one win this season proves he is following the trend you speak of for UK players?
Does Fowlers shot at the pin vs rory's safe play partly highlight the issue.
Although I still maintain it was all about Fowler having a perfect yardage for him.
What does it matter who invented what?
Take a look at the OWGR's and it is clear the power lies with the PGA tour, only about 10 full time Europeans in the top 100.
Scotland grew the game up until the 1850's, then it was more of a british effort up until the early 1900's when the americans really joined the party. It is hard to argue that in the 20th century america did not see the biggest growth in the game.
Robo
Do you think Rory's current run of many top 3's but only one win this season proves he is following the trend you speak of for UK players?
Does Fowlers shot at the pin vs rory's safe play partly highlight the issue.
Although I still maintain it was all about Fowler having a perfect yardage for him.
McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Mac - I was thinking about your comment and there's certainly some merit to playing your approach to the best possible yardage.
Rory blasts his 3 metal 320 yards on the playoff hole ... I'm wondering if he's simply so long these days that finding that ideal yardage off the tee is a bit of a challenge? He's one fun player to watch.
Rory blasts his 3 metal 320 yards on the playoff hole ... I'm wondering if he's simply so long these days that finding that ideal yardage off the tee is a bit of a challenge? He's one fun player to watch.
Shotrock- Posts : 3924
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Mac,
This is DA Points' assessment of Rory's shot:
"I was trying to fly it 142 yards, and I normally hit a pitching wedge 135 yards." "My (wedge) flew 158 yards and it's because the wind flipped round and went the other direction. And same with Rory's. That's why Rory's went so far by." And then he goes on to be complimemtary about Rickie's shot.
Sounds like the wind was swirling round, but obviously it's up to the golfers and caddies to suss all that out.
This is DA Points' assessment of Rory's shot:
"I was trying to fly it 142 yards, and I normally hit a pitching wedge 135 yards." "My (wedge) flew 158 yards and it's because the wind flipped round and went the other direction. And same with Rory's. That's why Rory's went so far by." And then he goes on to be complimemtary about Rickie's shot.
Sounds like the wind was swirling round, but obviously it's up to the golfers and caddies to suss all that out.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
We taped the event yesterday and went out to play our usual Sunday 9 holes. Got paired up with a couple of guys, one of whom was forever checking his i-phone and telling his friend what was going on at Quail Hollow. I thought maybe he had $$ on the outcome, but it turns out that he's a friend of Ricky Fowler. His dad belongs to the same club as Ricky in Florida so when he visits his dad he hangs out with Ricky if he's around. He had nothing but good words to say about Ricky -- genuinely modest, decent guy. Initially I had been hoping that Lee or Rory would come through, but after chatting with these guys, I found myself rooting for Ricky. When I asked them if anybody had considered just holding him down and giving him a decent shave and haircut, they said they couldn't imagine Ricky with different hair, but that some of his friends are working on him to get rid of the facial hair !
Plunky- Posts : 497
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Great story Plunky.
Never heard anything to suggest that Fowler is anything other than a good guy, the only apparent contradiction to me is that he hangs out with Ben Crane.
No word so far on Monday about any further withdrawals from The Players - Brian Harman is first alternate followed by the Man from Mansfield, Greg Owen.
Never heard anything to suggest that Fowler is anything other than a good guy, the only apparent contradiction to me is that he hangs out with Ben Crane.
No word so far on Monday about any further withdrawals from The Players - Brian Harman is first alternate followed by the Man from Mansfield, Greg Owen.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
This is DA Points' assessment of Rory's shot:
"I was trying to fly it 142 yards, and I normally hit a pitching wedge 135 yards." "My (wedge) flew 158 yards and it's because the wind flipped round and went the other direction. And same with Rory's. That's why Rory's went so far by." And then he goes on to be complimemtary about Rickie's shot.
Sounds like the wind was swirling round, but obviously it's up to the golfers and caddies to suss all that out.
If Rory hit 3 wood 338 yards off the tee, surely there's only one direction the wind could possibly have been blowing? And besides, I didn't notice any of the trees bending, 23 extra yards on a wedge? Must have been a mini-hurricane that started just after he hit it and stopped about 10 seconds later!
SmithersJones- Posts : 2094
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
kwinigolfer wrote:Great story Plunky.
Never heard anything to suggest that Fowler is anything other than a good guy, the only apparent contradiction to me is that he hangs out with Ben Crane.
No word so far on Monday about any further withdrawals from The Players - Brian Harman is first alternate followed by the Man from Mansfield, Greg Owen.
Fred Couples has WD due to illness but since he is in the field as the Sr TPC champ, I don't think he is being replaced.
Other than being slow, (and he is trying to improve), I have never heard any pros say anything negative about Ben Crane.
GPB- Posts : 7283
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
McLaren wrote:Robo
Do you think Rory's current run of many top 3's but only one win this season proves he is following the trend you speak of for UK players?
Does Fowlers shot at the pin vs rory's safe play partly highlight the issue.
Although I still maintain it was all about Fowler having a perfect yardage for him.
First question... IMHO... Rory might be one of that different breed I mentioned. With that GREAT driving ability of his, he has the ability to overpower holes with his length, and I just don't see much lay-up in that guy. Going for a tucked pin with a 6 or 7-iron might be a risk for a Luke or a Lee, but consider that the way Rory drives it... he might be going at that same pin with a 9-iron which allows him to be much more aggressive, with little to no more risk, into the greens.
IMO Rory represents the type of player that might be able to do both... be the prolific winner and a consistent high finisher when he doesn't win. But note... I'm not at all expecting to see the 8-9 win seasons out of Rory or anybody for a while, or maybe even ever again. I think the competition is just getting that deep. Kind of like Ron Sirak points out... Four "quality" wins going forward may be the "new nine".
And as for Rickie vs Rory... one hitting it close and the other not... didn't play into my prior comments at all.
I don't think Rory was playing it safe at all on the playoff hole... It appears he had an in-between yardage and simply failed to execute... Hey... it happens and you could see how disappointed he was in the shot. But I think Rory was going for it all the way. And while someone else mentioned how long Rory was on the shot... From Rory's angle which was more to the right of Fowler and Points, it looked like his shot was a LOT more wide right than long... like he came out of it a little...
And as for Rickie... as you mentioned... he had what he described as a "perfect" yardage. And though he wouldn't admit it, I think the criticism he received for the final round layup at the par-5 15th at Phoenix in 2010 stung him more than a bit. With that history in mind, and considering that he had to think Rory had a great chance of stuffing it from even closer... there was nothing else for Rickie to do except go flag hunting. (And by the way... I disagreed with the criticism at Phoenix back then - IMO while with 20-20 hindsight, Fowler "might" have made an error in judgement, it wasn't cowardice. There was sound reasoning behind his decision to lay-up. He thought with the pin position he had virtually no chance of making eagle regardless of how perfect he hit it, and as good a chance of making birdie from the lay-up as he did going for it... and with no risk. That's not cowardice... that's strategy... right or wrong though it may be).
Last edited by robopz on Mon 07 May 2012, 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarity)
robopz- Posts : 3604
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
GPB wrote:
Fred Couples has WD due to illness but since he is in the field as the Sr TPC champ, I don't think he is being replaced..
You are correct... The exemption for the Sr. Players Champion is the "extra" one that puts the field at 145... so they don't replace that one if the qualifier doesn't play. Alternates will now fill the field up to 144. Even threesomes :-)
robopz- Posts : 3604
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Thanks for the confirmation about Couples, I see the notice of the w/d now!
Had assumed Westwood knew something we didn't - good news for Lee anyway.
Had assumed Westwood knew something we didn't - good news for Lee anyway.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
There is one other aspect of the Rickie Fowler Phoenix situation that is never discussed.
Rickie Fowler was in the QS/NW status at the time, and as such, subject to the reshuffle.
A high finish was crucial to him in order to keep getting into events and near the top of the re-shuffle. The difference between a 2nd and 5th place finish could have been the difference of getting into three or four tournaments.
Sometimes you have to take a step backwards to take two steps forwards.
Rickie Fowler was in the QS/NW status at the time, and as such, subject to the reshuffle.
A high finish was crucial to him in order to keep getting into events and near the top of the re-shuffle. The difference between a 2nd and 5th place finish could have been the difference of getting into three or four tournaments.
Sometimes you have to take a step backwards to take two steps forwards.
GPB- Posts : 7283
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Now also KJ Choi has been touched by the holy spirit...
http://www.pgatour.com/2012/tournaments/r011/05/08/larry-dorman-column-kj-choi/index.html#
http://www.pgatour.com/2012/tournaments/r011/05/08/larry-dorman-column-kj-choi/index.html#
pedro- Posts : 7353
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
For goodness sake. What is it with golf and bible thumping?
Another golfer joins the crutch needy, weak willed, lunatic club.
Another golfer joins the crutch needy, weak willed, lunatic club.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
God knows! I wonder if they ever have a discussion about religion with anyone who has a brain? In fact, it's pathetic. If anyone ever started a post-win interview with something along the lines of "It was all me. Hard work and all that. There's no such thing as God." it'd be uproar. It's about time one of the interviewers put them down when they start up on that sort of thing...or even better, ask them a few nasty questions on their religion(s).
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
The 2 things I find most interesting for want of a better word (bizarre perhaps maybe better), is that;
1.Choi is Christian, when he hails from a predominantly budhist country. Though I believe Christiam faith is growing in that part of the world as they westernize a little more.
2. He gives 10% of his earnings to his church! Sounds like everyone should become a minister the amount these pro's poor in to their local churches coffers! Right money spinners, that must've equated to somewhere like 400k last year what with his Players win, other purses and endorsements!
1.Choi is Christian, when he hails from a predominantly budhist country. Though I believe Christiam faith is growing in that part of the world as they westernize a little more.
2. He gives 10% of his earnings to his church! Sounds like everyone should become a minister the amount these pro's poor in to their local churches coffers! Right money spinners, that must've equated to somewhere like 400k last year what with his Players win, other purses and endorsements!
Fader- Posts : 688
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Navy, I'd love to see an interviewer just say something mid stream like,
'bloody hell you're so boring ' and just walk away, leaving the golfer in front of the camera. Preferably just as Woods opens his mouth.
'bloody hell you're so boring ' and just walk away, leaving the golfer in front of the camera. Preferably just as Woods opens his mouth.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
choi probally gives more to the church than he does to his caddy.. ffs
what winds me up is that he probally loves a tax dodge an all..
and giving to the chuch could also be tax deductable!
Are they seen as charities?
Maybe choi should look hard at his decision and give the 10% to a charity over the church. I am sure that in the fictional world where a god does exist he would still hold a place for choi in heaven if he gave back to the less fortunate. Choi and other religious dudes that give money to the church is based on FEAR not giving to others..
what winds me up is that he probally loves a tax dodge an all..
and giving to the chuch could also be tax deductable!
Are they seen as charities?
Maybe choi should look hard at his decision and give the 10% to a charity over the church. I am sure that in the fictional world where a god does exist he would still hold a place for choi in heaven if he gave back to the less fortunate. Choi and other religious dudes that give money to the church is based on FEAR not giving to others..
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
If Choi and the rest really had true faith they'd give 100% to their church and trust that 'god' will look after them.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
maybe we should create a 606 religion, seems to be alot of money in the game. One part of me really hopes that sceintolgy was only created for a big buck, capitalism at its finest
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
It was Oakey. The guy who started it once said that if you want to make a lot of money, start a religion. He did and he made half wits like tom cruise part with millions
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
mysti
"part of me really hopes that sceintolgy was only created for a big buck, capitalism at its finest"
So, the other part of you thinks they actually will get to fly of in a space ship one day?
"part of me really hopes that sceintolgy was only created for a big buck, capitalism at its finest"
So, the other part of you thinks they actually will get to fly of in a space ship one day?
McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
super_realist wrote:It was Oakey. The guy who started it once said that if you want to make a lot of money, start a religion. He did and he made half wits like tom cruise part with millions
A half wit who is worth $250 million, what a drongo.....
Diggers- Posts : 8681
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
mystiroakey wrote:maybe we should create a 606 religion
well I suggested Tigerology here a while back but there wasn't many takers.
1st Commandment: "Thou shalt covet thy neighbour's ass".
incontinentia- Posts : 3977
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
I don't think cruise is worth 250m on account of his brain, do you? All down to his wooden, cheesy acting and looks appreciated by Hollywood.
However, a fool and his money are easily parted. Scientologies bank account is proof of that.
However, a fool and his money are easily parted. Scientologies bank account is proof of that.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
I do actually think its to do with his brain. Plenty of actors have the same qualities as Cruise but havent madet he same career choices.
He has also made a large majority of his fortune producing, like the Mission Impossible franchise. Stupid he is not.
He has also made a large majority of his fortune producing, like the Mission Impossible franchise. Stupid he is not.
Diggers- Posts : 8681
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
McLaren wrote:mysti
"part of me really hopes that sceintolgy was only created for a big buck, capitalism at its finest"
So, the other part of you thinks they actually will get to fly of in a space ship one day?
lol yeah my sci fi/creative side i suppose
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Diggers, don't deny he has business acumen, but you'd have to have a screw loose to follow scientology.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
You certainly have to be a bit different, not that Im an expert on the subject. My point reallywas that its hard to criticise a guy as dumb for giving away millions when he is capable of earning many many times more largely through as you say business acumen.
So bonkers, quite possibly, thick, no.
So bonkers, quite possibly, thick, no.
Diggers- Posts : 8681
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
I don't necessarily like Tom Cruise that much as a person, but I think it's rather unfair to criticise his acting ability. He has been Oscar nominated, after all, and has definitely made some bold choices against type (Rock of Ages out later this year is a pretty good example of a leftfield decision).
Also agree that he made some good financial/business decisions in his production efforts (but then again, I suppose it's easier to make money on producing films when your involvement on camera is in itself a box office draw).
Also agree that he made some good financial/business decisions in his production efforts (but then again, I suppose it's easier to make money on producing films when your involvement on camera is in itself a box office draw).
Skydriver- Posts : 1089
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Good actors or over worked actor go abit nuts- i think thats what it boils down to. However he is very akin to wanting to be part of a religion- As a kid Cruise wanted to be a priest or something
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Fader wrote:The 2 things I find most interesting for want of a better word (bizarre perhaps maybe better), is that;
1.Choi is Christian, when he hails from a predominantly budhist country. Though I believe Christiam faith is growing in that part of the world as they westernize a little more.
2. He gives 10% of his earnings to his church! Sounds like everyone should become a minister the amount these pro's poor in to their local churches coffers! Right money spinners, that must've equated to somewhere like 400k last year what with his Players win, other purses and endorsements!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_South_Korea
It's seems that it's a pretty secular country, but there are more Christians than Buddhists in South Korea.
djlovesyou- Posts : 2283
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Of all the atrocities the west have committed over the years I find it hard to believe that at some point in the future history will not most harshly judge the way in which we turned Africa into a Christian fundamentalist hotbed. There are many theories on economic development and why Africa has struggled but when most people think witches are a real problem what chance do you have?
McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
There's something a bit sinister about all the happy clappy churches around right now.
It used to be only tweed and twin set pearls types a.k.a coffin dodgers that went to church on a Sunday, now they've gone all trendy and have a fair proportion of young people going along. Tapping into the vulnerable?
Can't imagine how on earth they could convert people to believe in something they hitherto didn't. Ditto that I'm unsure why all these golfers are suddently declaring an interest.
It used to be only tweed and twin set pearls types a.k.a coffin dodgers that went to church on a Sunday, now they've gone all trendy and have a fair proportion of young people going along. Tapping into the vulnerable?
Can't imagine how on earth they could convert people to believe in something they hitherto didn't. Ditto that I'm unsure why all these golfers are suddently declaring an interest.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Did anyone see the South Park episode on Mormons?
incontinentia- Posts : 3977
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
The one on Scientologists is funny too.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
super_realist wrote:There's something a bit sinister about all the happy clappy churches around right now.
It used to be only tweed and twin set pearls types a.k.a coffin dodgers that went to church on a Sunday, now they've gone all trendy and have a fair proportion of young people going along. Tapping into the vulnerable?
Can't imagine how on earth they could convert people to believe in something they hitherto didn't. Ditto that I'm unsure why all these golfers are suddently declaring an interest.
I agree Super, it would obviously be much better if young people were out doing drugs and fighting on the streets after boozing in pubs all night.
When I was a kid the whole family would often go to church and the kids would have bible class and sunday school trips, its only in the past two decades that this has changed. Its actually starting to change back again, more families are attending church, quite often to get their kids into a good school (nobody seems to mind the presence of God if he comes with an outstanding Ofsted report) but also because even though they might not be devout christians they recognise that the church actually plays a good role in the local community and people like that. People like to be part of a club, its a bit like golf really.
Diggers- Posts : 8681
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Just because you go or don't go to church, doesn't mean you will or won't end up a deadbeat.
I applaud the Christian values of being a decent person, perhaps the most important thing it does. I just don't think you need to be brainwashed or indoctrinated into being a decent person by instiutionalised or organsied religion though, let alone believing in God, which is just as silly as believing in Santa Claus, tooth fairy, aliens etc
I applaud the Christian values of being a decent person, perhaps the most important thing it does. I just don't think you need to be brainwashed or indoctrinated into being a decent person by instiutionalised or organsied religion though, let alone believing in God, which is just as silly as believing in Santa Claus, tooth fairy, aliens etc
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
I do see certain benefits with church and community and morales and such- but id rather have a non religious sunday thing where there is no preaching to a god.
but its not like golf is it, golf is a competitive sport, but i suppose it has parralels as it is a social experience
but its not like golf is it, golf is a competitive sport, but i suppose it has parralels as it is a social experience
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Its the social element Mysti, and the fact that people like to be surrounded by people with similar interests and likes.
Super I agree but to suggest there is something sinister about young people going to church is ludicrous, especially as Ive just pointed out it means they are far more likely not to carry out the anti social behaviour that a lot of other young people seem to live for these days.
They believe in God for whatever reason, you dont and therefore will never understand why they do. It doesnt mean they are brainwashed or indoctrinated.
Super I agree but to suggest there is something sinister about young people going to church is ludicrous, especially as Ive just pointed out it means they are far more likely not to carry out the anti social behaviour that a lot of other young people seem to live for these days.
They believe in God for whatever reason, you dont and therefore will never understand why they do. It doesnt mean they are brainwashed or indoctrinated.
Diggers- Posts : 8681
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
You can't say they wouldn't turn out bad simply because they bash a bible, just as I can't for certain say they aren't indocrinated.
I don't think you need religion to be a decent person., and being religious doens't automatically make you decent. Just as not being religious means you are any more likely to be a scrote.
Some of them are very unpleasant. They'll go on about their religion to you, but if you dare to question it, wobetide you.
I don't think you need religion to be a decent person., and being religious doens't automatically make you decent. Just as not being religious means you are any more likely to be a scrote.
Some of them are very unpleasant. They'll go on about their religion to you, but if you dare to question it, wobetide you.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Plenty of people are unpleasant but I dont see a reason to have a go at somebody just because they go to church.
And lets face it, if someone mentions they like Tiger Woods or Man Utd you go off on one.
And lets face it, if someone mentions they like Tiger Woods or Man Utd you go off on one.
Diggers- Posts : 8681
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
yes i actually think to a few church goers they are actually only in it for the social aspect, many are 50/50 on a god if even less.
I have no problem with it at all. Yes i almost agree with super that it baffles me how so many can believe in a god. But at the same time i am not gonna judge anyone(well bar the really hardcore bible bashers).
I have no problem with it at all. Yes i almost agree with super that it baffles me how so many can believe in a god. But at the same time i am not gonna judge anyone(well bar the really hardcore bible bashers).
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: PGA Tour: "Wells Fargo Championship" in Charlotte: Notes from the Ballwasher
Nothing wrong if people want to waste their time at Church, what I don't understand is where it fits into golf and why certain golfers mention it as a reason for their success.
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