Heard a rumour today

First topic message reminder :

Moves are afoot for David Haye to fight Dereck Chisora on the 14th July at Upton Park if boxing licence issues can be sorted, not sure how much truth in it but seems to come from a fairly reliable source.

Gordy, a quick perusal of your posting history reveals that you claim not to be a boxing fan, and you claim not to have watched the sport since the nineties. This is apparent from your constant referencing of "Ali, Foreman and Frazier", "Lewis and Tyson", and "Eubank, Benn and Collins", the latter of whom you appear to think were fighting every other week on ITV. (They weren't.)

Given this, I am left wondering upon what you have based your withering assessment of today's greatest heavyweights?

Wlad unskilled? D4 got banned for less!

Have I just read that the K bros are considered unskilled by "Gordy"?

Ok.

Just.

Wow. I don't really understand how he's come to that conclusion. I don't like the Klits - I find them boring, but to consider Wlad unskilled is nigh on WUM territory. They're professional heavyweight boxing champions. You don't get that far by being "unskilled"

I'm shocked I actually read that lol.

Dan Rafael ‏ @danrafaelespn

Been told @frankwarren_tv is trying to finalize @dellboychisora vs #Toe Haye to announce it Tuesday. #boxing

Dave Coldwell ‏ @davidcoldwell

So I'm hearing rumors that @mrdavidhaye is fighting @dellboychisora next, what do we think about that then #boxingheads ? #boxing

Other people within the sport also tweeting about it today looks like its a goer

Kevin Mitchell the journalist is also tweeting

On the subject of Haye v Chisora (my opinions on the bros K would earn me an unending stream of abuse!) Chisora's style is a bad one for Haye. I hear people being confident of Haye outboxing and knoocking him out, but when have you EVER seen Chisora hurt? Is Haye that much more powerful than Vitali?

Haye's punch out put is terribly low for a world class fighter, and Chisora has a high output and will close the space down. He'll have learned from the Vitali fight too about not letting his opponent get back into it in the last minute of the round. I wouldn't be all that confident for Haye if it went ahead.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:On the subject of Haye v Chisora, Chisora's style is a bad one for Haye. I hear people being confident of Haye outboxing and knoocking him out, but when have you EVER seen Chisora hurt? Is Haye that much more powerful than Vitali?

Haye's punch out put is terribly low for a world class fighter, and Chisora has a high output and will close the space down. He'll have learned from the Vitali fight too about not letting his opponent get back into it in the last minute of the round. I wouldn't be all that confident for Haye if it went ahead.

My thoughts exactly

Go on Del! Knock out Dave and shut him up once and for all (and then have a brawl with Audley at the post fight conference!)

Haye is a very good pro. He is always in shape, he has fast hands and a reach advantage over Chisora. He can take a shot better than most people thought he could before Wladimir. Chisora isn't a bigger hitter and can't hit Haye as often as Wlad did.

Chisoras the sort of fighter that has hurt the heavyweight division. He's a fat pudding.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Haye is a very good pro. He is always in shape, he has fast hands and a reach advantage over Chisora. He can take a shot better than most people thought he could before Wladimir. Chisora isn't a bigger hitter and can't hit Haye as often as Wlad did.

Chisoras the sort of fighter that has hurt the heavyweight division. He's a fat pudding.

i disagree about chisora. his weight isnt hurting anything, his antics may do, but not his shape. the boy comes to fight and recently he's beat (not officially) a rated boxer in helenius and actually tried against vitali.

OasisBFC wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Haye is a very good pro. He is always in shape, he has fast hands and a reach advantage over Chisora. He can take a shot better than most people thought he could before Wladimir. Chisora isn't a bigger hitter and can't hit Haye as often as Wlad did.

Chisoras the sort of fighter that has hurt the heavyweight division. He's a fat pudding.

i disagree about chisora. his weight isnt hurting anything, his antics may do, but not his shape. the boy comes to fight and recently he's beat (not officially) a rated boxer in helenius and actually tried against vitali.

Mate he was 240lbs against Vitali he's only 6ft 1. He was heavier than Fury when they fought and Fury gets a lot of stick about his weight.

He's naturally large built and showed greater conditioning against Vitali than Haye did against Wlad. It's boxing, not a beauty pageant.

Agree on the Fury fight, he was badly out of shape for that one fight.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Haye is a very good pro. He is always in shape, he has fast hands and a reach advantage over Chisora. He can take a shot better than most people thought he could before Wladimir. Chisora isn't a bigger hitter and can't hit Haye as often as Wlad did.

Chisoras the sort of fighter that has hurt the heavyweight division. He's a fat pudding.

Very harsh PBK. Haye may have the better physique if he entered a male beauty contest. Heck Haye and Bruno would be ATG's if based on physique. Fortunately it isn't a Mr Universe but boxing.

Guys, it's time to lay off poor Gordy, and his rose tinted glasses-he also has his own private media hype machine that keeps telling him that the Kilitchos are the greatest ever. Funny I don't think I have ever read or heard anyone ever claim that. I have, however heard a lot of very knowledgeable fans and pundits that rightly believe that they are both very capable heavyweights, and that is regardless of whether or not they would have lost to to men that we generally regard as being at the very top of the heavyweight rankings.

alma wrote:

azania wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Haye is a very good pro. He is always in shape, he has fast hands and a reach advantage over Chisora. He can take a shot better than most people thought he could before Wladimir. Chisora isn't a bigger hitter and can't hit Haye as often as Wlad did.

Chisoras the sort of fighter that has hurt the heavyweight division. He's a fat pudding.

Very harsh PBK. Haye may have the better physique if he entered a male beauty contest. Heck Haye and Bruno would be ATG's if based on physique. Fortunately it isn't a Mr Universe but boxing.

lacy was in amazing condition against calzaghe and look where that got him!

Compare them as boxers and Hayes a better boxer. He has better movement, a better defence, faster hands, longer reach and a decent chin. Chisora doesn't do much that would worry Haye. It also happens that Haye is a very good athlete and Chisora is just a big lump.

BTW that Calzaghe-Lacy comparison was well wide of the mark. Calzaghe was never 240lbs!

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

alma wrote:

azania wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Haye is a very good pro. He is always in shape, he has fast hands and a reach advantage over Chisora. He can take a shot better than most people thought he could before Wladimir. Chisora isn't a bigger hitter and can't hit Haye as often as Wlad did.

Chisoras the sort of fighter that has hurt the heavyweight division. He's a fat pudding.

Very harsh PBK. Haye may have the better physique if he entered a male beauty contest. Heck Haye and Bruno would be ATG's if based on physique. Fortunately it isn't a Mr Universe but boxing.

lacy was in amazing condition against calzaghe and look where that got him!

Compare them as boxers and Hayes a better boxer. He has better movement, a better defence, faster hands, longer reach and a decent chin. Chisora doesn't do much that would worry Haye. It also happens that Haye is a very good athlete and Chisora is just a big lump.

BTW that Calzaghe-Lacy comparison was well wide of the mark. Calzaghe was never 240lbs!

Correct in everything you say about Haye. But Haye has very poor workrate whereas Chis is the opposite. This is a poor man's Ali/Frazier.

Just saw this on boxing news 24...

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2012/05/breaking-news-haye-vs-chisora/

Frank Warren said they are announcing a huge fight that takes place in July... is this it??

Chisora may be not look in good shape but the way he fights shows he has very very good conditioning. As for Haye being all that much better well he would have put up a better fight against Wladimir if he was so superior.

azania wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

alma wrote:

azania wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Haye is a very good pro. He is always in shape, he has fast hands and a reach advantage over Chisora. He can take a shot better than most people thought he could before Wladimir. Chisora isn't a bigger hitter and can't hit Haye as often as Wlad did.

Chisoras the sort of fighter that has hurt the heavyweight division. He's a fat pudding.

Very harsh PBK. Haye may have the better physique if he entered a male beauty contest. Heck Haye and Bruno would be ATG's if based on physique. Fortunately it isn't a Mr Universe but boxing.

lacy was in amazing condition against calzaghe and look where that got him!

Compare them as boxers and Hayes a better boxer. He has better movement, a better defence, faster hands, longer reach and a decent chin. Chisora doesn't do much that would worry Haye. It also happens that Haye is a very good athlete and Chisora is just a big lump.

BTW that Calzaghe-Lacy comparison was well wide of the mark. Calzaghe was never 240lbs!

Correct in everything you say about Haye. But Haye has very poor workrate whereas Chis is the opposite. This is a poor man's Ali/Frazier.

Haye has the speed and movement to box rings round Chisora. It suits Haye perfectly he doesn't want to go to war with anyone. he wants his opponents to come at him. He can make them miss which he does well and this lets him away with his low punch output because he is quite an accurate puncher. Haye will make Chisora chase him around all night and let him tire out then he will spark him out. Chisora is a fat lump I can't stand the fat heavyweights their an embarrassment to the sport.

Sparked out like Vitali did?

Vitali doesn't have Hayes speed and didn't make Chisora chase him all night like I said Haye would.

If either of them get tired it's Haye. Haye is flashier, but has very poor fundamentals. His handspeed isn't all that at heavy either from what I've seen. A hand speed advantage isn't even all that important if you only throw one or two at a time and barely anything per round.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:If either of them get tired it's Haye. Haye is flashier, but has very poor fundamentals. His handspeed isn't all that at heavy either from what I've seen. A hand speed advantage isn't even all that important if you only throw one or two at a time and barely anything per round.

Actually Haye has very good fundermentals. You dont get to be world amateur silver medalist with poor fundermentals. Its just that he relies too much on pot shotting. He has very good handspeed when throwing his 3-4 punch combos. The problem is that he does little between throwing the infrequent combinations.

I think Chisoras appeal date is next week and according to his coach on Ringside, they seem optimistic he will get his licence back in some shape or form.

If the fight did come off I would see Haye winning and wouldnt rule out a stoppage. As most people have identified, I think Chisoras best chance would be to outwork and outhustle Haye. But I think Hayes speed and movement would offset alot of this.

I would probably discount Hayes fights with valuev and Klitschkos as being not hugely relevant to the kind of fight Chisora would be. Chisora wouldnt have the same physical advantages so while Hayes workrate isnt that high, it was especially low against Valuev and Klitschko due to a specific kind of gameplan he adopted to try and cope with the size disparity.

The fight with Ruiz is probably closer to how it would pan out. Chisora I would imagine is more of a handful than Ruiz is at this stage of their careers but the pattern would be similar and as in that fight I would see Haye winning for similar reasons, albeit he finds it tougher. Nothing to suggest Chisora doesnt have a good chin so far but I suspect if Haye was able to catch him with the same kind of shots he caught Ruiz with then he would be capable of getting a stoppage.

azania wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:If either of them get tired it's Haye. Haye is flashier, but has very poor fundamentals. His handspeed isn't all that at heavy either from what I've seen. A hand speed advantage isn't even all that important if you only throw one or two at a time and barely anything per round.

Actually Haye has very good fundermentals. You dont get to be world amateur silver medalist with poor fundermentals. Its just that he relies too much on pot shotting. He has very good handspeed when throwing his 3-4 punch combos. The problem is that he does little between throwing the infrequent combinations.

I totally agree with you there, Haye for me seems to believe to much in his power that he had at cruiserweight has carried up to Heavyweight & relies on it rather than using his boxing. As has been mentioned you can't really compare VK & Valuev to Chisora or the way Haye performed against either to what he needs to do against Chisora.

With regards to chisora's physique & will he gas because of it there's no connection. His build is more down to genetics & maybe diet, he doesn't need to cut/make weight. Likewise Haye's physique is down to his genetics, diet & the way he decides to train which we know is not strictly just old school boxing. Out of the two I'd say Haye is more likely to gas late on if he doesn't get Chisora out quick or/& the fight is at pace. Would still fancy Haye to win though.

I think Chisora could be in better shape. Losing another 10lbs could increase his speed and mobility. For ages other Klitschko opponents like Arreola, Solis, Peter etc have been ridiculed for turning up to fights with moobs so I dont really see whats different about Chisora. Its about trying to maximise potential. Chisoras weight has fluctuated quite a bit over his career with swings of up to 20lbs. To me that suggest a guy that isnt always training hard. He should probably be down around 230-235lbs to be most effective.

Agreed - Although I do want to see what effect months of partying and binging may have on Haye before I predict - I think Haye wins by UD after getting the wind up his sails early on. Chisora might be better off at 230 or less if possible as he is going to spend a lot of time chasing haye. He might even go for it because Haye is not such a daunting task as the Klitschkos nor as large as them and fury. There isnt much we can read into Chisoras recent performances except that hes got a good chin and a fiar engine.

Chisira may be 6'1 but if you look at him when he comes in at 240 he doesn't look fat. It's mostly muscle. When he's heavier than that it's fat but vs helenius and vitali he looked strong. His arms are huge as are his shoulders and his neck is as thick as his head, hex why he has such good punch resistance.

Chisora is a nightmare for any heavyweight. He just keeps coming, is physically strong and canbe relentless. Haye may be quick, but isn't Roy jones jr etc. he has good reflexes but his feet can be stationary as he tries a mayweather esque straight right. Chisora will hunt him down, get in his face and hit the body. He potshots, meaning he can lose rounds based purely on aggression and workload.

Haye won't be able to clinch either as he is the smaller man and will be bullied by Chisora.

He is the better fighter but Chisira is just the wrong fit for him imo

Chisora is a big man for his height but unlike most he's a well conditioned fighter, you can't box like he did for 12 rounds against Helenius and Vitali without very good fitness. With the others like Peter and Arreola there fitness has let them done and they can't fight at the pace of Chisora, he could do with losing a few pounds but it's not a massive problem as long as he fights like he has in his last two fights.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Chisira may be 6'1 but if you look at him when he comes in at 240 he doesn't look fat. It's mostly muscle. When he's heavier than that it's fat but vs helenius and vitali he looked strong. His arms are huge as are his shoulders and his neck is as thick as his head, hex why he has such good punch resistance.

Chisora is a nightmare for any heavyweight. He just keeps coming, is physically strong and canbe relentless. Haye may be quick, but isn't Roy jones jr etc. he has good reflexes but his feet can be stationary as he tries a mayweather esque straight right. Chisora will hunt him down, get in his face and hit the body. He potshots, meaning he can lose rounds based purely on aggression and workload.

Haye won't be able to clinch either as he is the smaller man and will be bullied by Chisora.

He is the better fighter but Chisira is just the wrong fit for him imo

I saw him at the weigh in for the Klitschko fight and I still thought he was carrying about 10lb of flab that could have been shed. He had love handles and looked soft. I dont think he has to look like a bodybuilder but I think at 240lb hes still carrying excess weight.

I think hes been overcredited for his performance against Vitali. It was a routine win for Vitali. Chisora made it more uncomfortable than most have recently but he was a going in with zero expectation from people which made it seem better than it was I think.

Ruiz is strong and relentless and keeps coming forward but if he doesnt have the overall capability to land frequently and if hes getting hit with strong shots then it takes it toll.

I wouldnt expect a walkover or easy night for Haye but I would have him favourite over Chisora to start with based on what Ive seen thus far. I dont see Chisora as having a Klitschko like ability to take Hayes offence away from him, and hes not a giant like Valuev that you simply cant afford to stand in front of.

Looks like my source was the full HP then, should be an interesting fight and an even more interesting build up.