Ask the Tart: Archive 1

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Thread archived from https://www.606v2.com/t2445-ask-the-tart - Kiwireddevil

CrippledTart wrote:
By popular demand (Miky), here is a v2 verson of my 606 thread "Ask Me Ref".

As stated on the 606 version, this isn't just for people to ask me questions (I do not consider myself to be the biggest wrestling genius in the world contrary to the impression you get from some of my posts!), it's for people to ask questions and ANYONE who knows the answer to provide it.

This is not an opinion thread, per se. It is for those random wrestling musings you may have had but never got the answer to.

So if there's anything you ever wondered about wrestling, and never knew who to ask, go for it.

Bobby Roode wrote:If Hogan and Bischoff could create their perfect wrestler, who or what would it be like?

Hero wrote:2. Austin.
He’s widely regarded as one of if not the greatest ‘star’ to grace the industry. Whilst Hogan & HHH are often derided by the IWC for using their influence and power backstage, Austin seems above derision. Firstly what abuse of politics has Austin been guilty of, and why does he not fall into the Hogan/HHH category in the eyes of the IWC?

Good question. Steve Austin definitely used his political clout at times, but it was when he thought something was bad for business. Triple H and Hogan have a tendency to bury wrestlers they see as a threat, whereas Austin to my knowledge never acted that way.

He was fiercely protective of his character, and a student of the industry who had a good idea of what was good and bad for business. He was also accused of being paranoid at times.

Austin refused to work programmes with Jeff Jarrett and Billy Gunn in the summer of 1999. Gunn because he didn't rate him, Jarrett because the two had personal heat over Jarrett criticising the "Austin 3:16" gimmick as blasphemous. There were rumours he wouldn't put over Triple H in 1999 as well, but these are believed to be unfounded (he did a job for him at No Mercy). He also refused to do the job in an unadvertised match with Brock Lesnar on Raw in 2002, arguing that it would be bad for business. Austin's logic was that, as the biggest name in the company, it would have more effect if Brock ran through others on his way to a big PPV showdown between the two, where he would be happy to put Brock over.

The business he did in 1998 and 1999 was phenomenal, and meant that he had no political challengers. However Triple H's ascendance led to tension, and Austin felt insecure in his spot as the top guy. This led to a drastic change around 2000, when he suddenly became harder to work with. Austin did not take well to Vince having a new favourite, and protected his territory any time he felt challenged. He did not last much longer as a full-time main eventer, mainly because of his condition but also largely because the situation had diminished his passion for wrestling.

Another key was Austin's character: He was the toughest guy in the room. He took on all kinds of numbers and usually won. This made incredible money but did not lend itself to putting others over. In fact the WWF didn't want him doing jobs to anyone when they could help it - even tainted ones - while so much money was rolling in. Austin's character was dominant, not just physically but also in that he took up everyone's attention. This was a big plus for the WWF in his peak run, but in his latter years it became a hindrance. As the sheriff, when he was for all intents and purposes retired, he undercut every wrestler he came into contact with. And without great feuds to sink his teeth into, his promos suffered, he relied more on the tired beer drinking routine, and became something of a parody.

Austin didn't boost an awful lot of careers, but it wasn't with malice. Therein lies the difference between him and Triple H or Hogan. For the most part, he did what he thought was right for business.

By the way, congratz Crips on this becoming the most viewed topic on the board with over 10000 views!

Hero wrote:Didn’t they work between that though for the Intercontinental title?

They got it over and done with as quickly as possible though. It was necessary to show Austin getting his revenge on Owen (and also to get the belt off Owen as it was the night of the Screwjob!), but the match was extremely short and Austin didn't take any risks whatsoever.

There were never any rematches, although the Screwjob took precedence and Owen went in a completely different direction.

10,000 views is good going!

Crips, really enjoy this thread. Your knowledge is immense

What were the reasons behind the WWE dropping the cruiserweight division?

AberdeenSteve wrote:Crips, really enjoy this thread. Your knowledge is immense

What were the reasons behind the WWE dropping the cruiserweight division?

Ultimately, Vince McMahon just doesn't believe in Cruiserweights. His philosophy of wrestling is all about size and muscle. He doesn't like to push wrestlers who are smaller than he is.

WWE will occasionally pay lip service to the fans or those within the company who push for smaller wrestlers to get their chance, but they never stick with it for too long because Vince can't help but undermine it. There is no disciplined long-term investment by the people in charge, and as a result there is no investment by the fans, so it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It only takes Vince to decide one week that he needs to get Chris Masters or Tyler Reks or Mason Ryan over, and the first people he turns to are the Cruiserweights to be thrown around like ragdolls. That seriously damages their credibility.

TNA has the same problem and same self-fulfilling booking pattern with the X Division, which is why that struggles so much as well.

The people in charge of WWE and TNA just don't believe that smaller wrestlers draw in general. This goes against the indisputable evidence on show in boxing and MMA, where there have been numerous light weight draws. Until someone is willing to have disciplined weight divisions as they have in boxing and MMA, it will always be a self-fulfilling prophecy because the smaller wrestlers will forever be ready-made jobbers for the muscleheads.

If TNA want to be a genuine alternative to the WWE they should definitely consider weight Divisions, it would be evolutionary for Main Stream Pro Wrestling, if I where to start up a Pro Wrestling Company today that would definitely be the path I'd take

the-gaffer wrote:If TNA want to be a genuine alternative to the WWE they should definitely consider weight Divisions, it would be evolutionary for Main Stream Pro Wrestling, if I where to start up a Pro Wrestling Company today that would definitely be the path I'd take

Another reason WWE avoids weight divisions is that it feels too "sports like".

If I was starting a wrestling company, I would embrace everything that WWE and TNA tries to run from, ie the in-ring action.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:If TNA want to be a genuine alternative to the WWE they should definitely consider weight Divisions, it would be evolutionary for Main Stream Pro Wrestling, if I where to start up a Pro Wrestling Company today that would definitely be the path I'd take

Another reason WWE avoids weight divisions is that it feels too "sports like".

If I was starting a wrestling company, I would embrace everything that WWE and TNA tries to run from, ie the in-ring action.

Perhaps create company called Ring of Honor?

The only problem of going down the weight divisions and more sports-like programming is there isn't a real draw there, as people could easier watch "real" wrestling with the UFC.

Partly to bump this back up, but mostly of interest -- what is the story between Heyman and Vince McMahon? Is there animosity between them?

Cripps

Im way out of date on things but caught the back end of Punks commentary stint and have been watching more on you tube what was the crack behind this? was he injured at the time so was commentating? Also how did it go down well with Vince etc? i have heard vince is very strict with the announcers/commentary team but punk seemed to just take the pee out of it all esp the diva wrestling matches and when he did NXT (which i thought was hiilarious)

cheers

Don't think itt's been asked, may hae been mentioned on another thread but, how random is the raw Roulette?

Do they film it backstage and edit it until they get the match they want, or is each match planned for each eventuality the wheel could land on?

If I take out money from a cash machine and it pays me double. Should I give it back? If I don't, can I get in trouble?

Moral dilemma

I should add. I gave it back.

sodhat wrote:Partly to bump this back up, but mostly of interest -- what is the story between Heyman and Vince McMahon? Is there animosity between them?

They are two very complex personalities and as a result, it's a bit of a weird relationship. But I think on the whole they like and respect each other. Vince has always had some kind of power over Heyman, whether he was part-funding ECW or his outright boss in WWE, and it has led to frustration on Heyman's part. I think Paul Heyman genuinely believes that, if he'd ever been able to work with Vince's budget, he could be far more successful. As a result I think he does resent Vince a little bit. But on the whole there is definitely a mutual appreciation.

Vince McMahon likes to be surrounded by yes men. When someone like Heyman comes along, with strong opinions and a reluctance to be a good corporate bum kisser, Vince respects it. But he doesn't really enjoy it. However, he gave Heyman chance after chance to be a good employee because he knew how talented and valuable Heyman was, not just to WWE but if he went into competition with them. It's the same reason JR is kept under contract. Vince knows how good they are, he just doesn't want them rocking the happy corporate bubble he lives in.

Andthen1 wrote:Cripps

Im way out of date on things but caught the back end of Punks commentary stint and have been watching more on you tube what was the crack behind this? was he injured at the time so was commentating? Also how did it go down well with Vince etc? i have heard vince is very strict with the announcers/commentary team but punk seemed to just take the pee out of it all esp the diva wrestling matches and when he did NXT (which i thought was hiilarious)

cheers

Yeah, he was injured but Vince wanted to keep him relevant in the eyes of the fans. I heard a lot around that time about Vince being really high on Punk, so I guess the commentary stint impressed him. I don't think his pee-taking was damaging to the product, in that he only mocked the things that WWE has no interest in pushing anyway. If he'd been saying "John Cena's punches look terrible" or "this upcoming PPV looks rubbish, you shouldn't buy it" that would have been a different story! But I expect Vince enjoyed his snarky comments as much as anyone else.

more_awesome_than_a_ri wrote:Don't think itt's been asked, may hae been mentioned on another thread but, how random is the raw Roulette?

Do they film it backstage and edit it until they get the match they want, or is each match planned for each eventuality the wheel could land on?

It's completely rigged. They might pre-tape it, as you say, but I expect it's easy enough to rig a roulette wheel.

If you look at this week's Raw, the Vickie thing and the cage match were obviously part of the script.

Interestingly, when Sting and Jake Roberts had a "Spin the Wheel, Make a Deal" match at Halloween Havoc 1992, the wheel wasn't rigged. They literally didn't know they were having a Coal Miner's Glove match until the PPV itself. Incidentally a Coal Miner's Glove match was literally the worst option on the whole wheel, and the match duly stunk out the arena.

In the cases of Viewers' Choice/P2P/fan voting, the promotion will usually give one option that is a more obvious and likely choice than the others, and the wrestlers will have pretty much the same match regardless of the stipulation, with one or two key spots to incorporate an unlikely stip being chosen, eg if it's no countout they'll brawl around ringside a bit or maybe move the finish to the outside. If it's a choice of opponent, most wrestlers can put together a quick TV match in the fly. I'm sure Evan Bourne was told last week that, whoever his opponent, he was doing a four-minute job!

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

sodhat wrote:Partly to bump this back up, but mostly of interest -- what is the story between Heyman and Vince McMahon? Is there animosity between them?

They are two very complex personalities and as a result, it's a bit of a weird relationship. But I think on the whole they like and respect each other. Vince has always had some kind of power over Heyman, whether he was part-funding ECW or his outright boss in WWE, and it has led to frustration on Heyman's part. I think Paul Heyman genuinely believes that, if he'd ever been able to work with Vince's budget, he could be far more successful. As a result I think he does resent Vince a little bit. But on the whole there is definitely a mutual appreciation.

Vince McMahon likes to be surrounded by yes men. When someone like Heyman comes along, with strong opinions and a reluctance to be a good corporate bum kisser, Vince respects it. But he doesn't really enjoy it. However, he gave Heyman chance after chance to be a good employee because he knew how talented and valuable Heyman was, not just to WWE but if he went into competition with them. It's the same reason JR is kept under contract. Vince knows how good they are, he just doesn't want them rocking the happy corporate bubble he lives in.

Interesting, thanks. I always wondered why Heyman wasn't any longer with WWE and I expected it was some sort of falling out, but perhaps not...

As a follow up question (because you mentioned JR!) -- why does JR seem to get such a lack of respect from WWE for his work for them as an announcer and loyal employee? I do feel sorry for him if some of the stories are true about him being ripped.

Also, why is he no longer seen as the top announcer for WWE -- will this ever change?

Cheers Cripps

I was watching last nite and when cena was "fired" he really played on that saying y is he here, y has he got a seat right where the camera pans too etc i thought it was funny and having a slite dig at the stupid stipulation.

I dont no how to put others quotes on here but there was question a while ago about austin and owen not liking each other, according to Austins book he said his main beef was that Owen never really said sorry and never checked up on him after the incident on the phone or in person. Even Brett hart said in his book he thought it was a bit out of order that Owen never really checked in on Austin.

JR is seen as too southern for the key WWE demographic... with is corporate speak for they think he is a hillbilly who will put people off. In addition JR does suffer with a condition called Bell's Palsy and the WWE are worried that with a full schedule he could have an attack on the air.

In terms of the first point I think that they are very wrong as JR offers the kind of gravitas that sports based commentators need. No offence to Josh Mathews who is OK - but he doesn't offer the same presence and Lawler seems to phone in his performance each week now.

In terms of the second I can see where they are coming from though I think that JR would be able to fulfil the PPV events for WWE to give some continuity.

In terms of why he is treated like roody poo... well Vince seems to love treating people badly, showing off his power and he knows that JR is loyal and will keep coming back when asked.

It is a bit like the weak girlfriend syndrome, if the jackass boyfriend knew she may actually leave, he would treat her a whole lot better.

Crips (or anyone), do you know where the fine poster undisputedY2D2 has got to? I haven't seen him post here in ages.

sodhat wrote:
As a follow up question (because you mentioned JR!) -- why does JR seem to get such a lack of respect from WWE for his work for them as an announcer and loyal employee? I do feel sorry for him if some of the stories are true about him being ripped.

Also, why is he no longer seen as the top announcer for WWE -- will this ever change?

Kevin Dunn, the right hand man to Vince and the guy in charge of Production, is obsessed with image; a slick product with telegenic performers and presenters. Vince himself, ever since he took wrestling national in the 80s, has gradually tried to erase the appearance of a regional rasslin' show. Jim Ross, an overweight old-time Southerner with a thick accent and a deformed face, does not fit their desired image!

As good as Ross is, McMahon and Dunn are hung up on his appearance. Vince also sees Ross as someone who takes himself and the in-ring action too seriously, hence the constant attempts to humiliate him on TV. Every wrestler on the roster would prefer him to call their matches, and I'd imagine 99% of fans would prefer to hear his voice, but Vince, being stubborn as he is, does not want Ross calling his product. He also suffers from the fact that he had a successful career before he worked for Vince. He is not a WWE creation. Vince wants announcers who look neutral and metrosexual, who could be presenters on QVC or quiz show hosts. Even if they know nothing about wrestling. In fact it may well be that he'd prefer them to know nothing about wrestling. Then he can train them to commentate the WWE way, just like Jim Ross, but without the accent or the face.

As petty as all these things may sound, and as much as you are probably thinking "but surely if he's the best commentator in the business, they should just let him commentate", it matters to Vince McMahon. He doesn't like Jim Ross because Jim Ross is Jim Ross.

liverbnz wrote:Crips (or anyone), do you know where the fine poster undisputedY2D2 has got to? I haven't seen him post here in ages.

No but I miss him too.

isnt he the one who asked for his account to be deleted?

JamesLincs wrote:isnt he the one who asked for his account to be deleted?

Unless I am mistaken that was King Beer...

good old politics

Wow..... I turn my back and Y2D2 and KingBeer leave....

Ok, 2 questions, in that case: firstly, does anyone know why they departed? And secondly and a very dumb, what is a worked shoot? I should know, but I'm dammed if I can remember!

1) it was dexter that requested to leave, if y2d2 has left i don't know about it
2) kb is back already

Why did people request to leave? Did someone fall out?

A worked shoot is a promo that appears to be breaking from the script, but is actually itself part of the script.

As opposed to a shoot, which is a promo that is genuinely not supposed to happen, or a worked promo, which is just a normal promo.

he quit every site and every e-fed he was apart of so guessing real life caught up to him.

Cool, cheers Davies!!

just so everyone knows, you dont need permission to leave

JamesLincs wrote:just so everyone knows, you dont need permission to leave

JamesLincs, I think the board needs to hear a shoot promo from you! It sounds like you know more than others do???

i wrote punks script

JamesLincs wrote:i wrote punks script

No. Punk wrote Punks script. You just copied the bullet points onto his wrist tape in return for a Pepsi.

haha

KB is Pauline!

oooo dont gaf, you might get a warning

Back on topic guys, does anyone know if a wrestler has in the past gone off script to the extent that their mic was cut, a la Punk on monday? (although I did notice that Raw actually went 10minutes over the schedule last nigh, watching in the US as I am - might that have had something to do with it?)

Also, does anyone know if there is any sort of fine / punishment from the network when wrestling goes over time? as it's all pre-determined, they can't really have any excuses for running long!!!

Edited NB - Punk sat down and started talking 4 minutes after Raw was supposed to finish!!

John Cena's Speech writer wrote:Back on topic guys, does anyone know if a wrestler has in the past gone off script to the extent that their mic was cut, a la Punk on monday? (although I did notice that Raw actually went 10minutes over the schedule last nigh, watching in the US as I am - might that have had something to do with it?)

Also, does anyone know if there is any sort of fine / punishment from the network when wrestling goes over time? as it's all pre-determined, they can't really have any excuses for running long!!!

I was under the impression Raw always runs past the top of the hour in the US? Presumably to hook viewers. Therefore the network would be fully approving of it.

I can't remember any examples when a wrestler has genuinely had his mic cut because he was shooting. It has only ever happened as part of a worked shoot.

Nope, I always watch it recorded (the wife can't understand my obsession with watching 'waxed, oiled men wearing latex feeling each other up), and it starts dead on 7pm and finishes at about 8.59 on average!!

One more Punk's Promo related question - is there really a history of Heyman's guys not doing so well with VKM? I know Brock was pushed to the moon, stars and the outer reaches of the universe, but I think I heard that his departure was pretty acrimonious. (This is kinda about his post ECW exploits, because I'm pretty sure that neither Brock nor Punk were involved with ECW)

Yeah RAW is scheduled to finish at 04:15am UK time and 11:15pm US Time so it didn't really run past time

Punk was wanted by Heyman to be the main guy in ECW in 2006

Ok, I take what I said back - next week's is scheduled to finish at 10.05.....!

1. The Heyman reference was about the writers picking "their guys" who they go to bat for. Vince has his favourites and the writers have their favourites, and a lot of the writing process for Raw is about creative team members battling over who is pushed and who isn't. Punk was obviously a favourite of Heyman during his time with the company, hence the reference.

2. Whenever I read Raw reports on PWTorch.com they always without failure talk about Raw going off the air X amount of minutes past the top of the hour. But I'm not going to argue with someone who watches it in the States! (though I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to watch 'waxed, oiled men wearing latex feeling each other up)

RAW is schedule to run over every week

'waxed, oiled men wearing latex feeling each other up'.

Isnt that Babestation?

Mr H wrote:'waxed, oiled men wearing latex feeling each other up'.

Isnt that Babestation?

You, sir, are a genius. And the wife wouldn't be too happy with me watching that, either!!

Great thread!

One thing I've always wondered is why did Mike Adamle become Raw GM? What was the thinking behind this? It didn't seem to amount to anything significant from what I can rember.

Adamle was on a massive WWE contract, after they realised he couldn't cut it on commentary they wanted to get their money worth out of him

Crips,

Fairly topical question for you in regard to CM Punk's promo on Raw.... There's a lot of people talking on the net about Brian Pillman's worked shoot in 95 when he left WCW for ECW. What was the deal with this? I've heard bits but not sure of the facts.