Edinburgh to Meadowbank?

The old rumour has resurfaced in today's Hootsmon:

SRU explore possibility of new ground at Meadowbank

By DAVID FERGUSON

EDINBURGH and the SRU are exploring the potential for a new all-seater stadium at Meadowbank with the City of Edinburgh Council as part of a possible supermarket redevelopment.

The SRU and the city council have discussed various plans for a new ground in and around Edinburgh that could provide a more appropriate venue for the Edinburgh Rugby squad, with Myreside, the Watsonians home ground, Hibs’ Easter Road and Meadowbank all having acted as home grounds before the Murrayfield move in 2004.

The national stadium has top-quality facilities but, with 67,000 seats, has been widely criticised for its lack of atmosphere when Edinburgh regularly play in front of only a few thousand. The club improved the matchday experience this season by moving supporters into the East Stand, which sits close to the touchline, and opening up access to the West Stand running track and behind the posts, and a successful Heineken Cup run helped with a handful of crowds over 10,000 topped by a record 38,000 attendance for the Heineken Cup quarter-final against Toulouse in April.

However, Edinburgh chief executive Craig Docherty acknowledged that finding a smaller stadium that could be filled more regularly remained a priority. The increase in supporters, business club members, sponsors and revenue over the past year has provided new impetus and The Scotsman understands that interest from a leading supermarket to redevelop the Meadowbank stadium site, by building a new supermarket and potentially funding a small stadium for widespread community use, has created fresh optimism. The discussions are at an early stage and all parties were reluctant yesterday to make any comment. A City of Edinburgh Council spokesperson confirmed that they were in preliminary discussions with the SRU over a new stadium but that these were currently commercially sensitive.

Docherty refused to confirm or deny the supermarket interest. He stated: “Everyone knows that Murrayfield week in week out is not an ideal home for Edinburgh, but you do have to be very careful with what you wish for because you see a trail of destruction all over the place with guys who have gone to stadia with big rentals that they can’t actually fill.

“It would be great to think that we could have a 10-15,000 all-seater stadium in the centre of Edinburgh. That is the perfect dream but there are lots of hurdles to go over before we reach that. For example, who is going to pay for it?

“You have 12 events [games] a year and you have to run it hot. In an ideal world, we wouldn’t be at Murrayfield but, having said that, if we had a 10/12,000-seater stadium there are about four games this season we couldn’t have played at it.

“The Leinster model is fantastic, with a stadium that’s not totally fit for purpose but, for big games, they go to the Aviva, and they’ve got it right. We are looking at a number of options. There is nothing right now fit for purpose in Edinburgh and anything would take two to three years to develop anyway.”

It is a sensible idea the biggest problem, as Craig Docherty says, is who will pay for it? From previous investigations I think the SRU is in debt and I have a vague recollection that Edinburgh had to be rescued by them in the past (is that a real memory or am I making it up)

LondonTiger wrote:It is a sensible idea the biggest problem, as Craig Docherty says, is who will pay for it? From previous investigations I think the SRU is in debt and I have a vague recollection that Edinburgh had to be rescued by them in the past (is that a real memory or am I making it up)

Not 'rescued' exactly, but reacquired from a consortium led by an "entrepreneur" called Bob Carruthers after everyone fell out with one another!

I think the SRU have been overhauled by the penny pinchers in recent years LT and so are approaching break even. How close that is I don't know.

Think the debt is down to something like a 'serviceable' £5-6 million, but could be wrong

I read this yesterday and was unable to comment due to being on the move. Sounds like a decent enough plan if the stadium is developed well.

I wouldn't want Edinburgh council within 1000 miles of managing the project though. The SRU couldnt afford their terrible management of big projects:

The Scottish Parliament (AKA the ugliest building in the known universe) - Initial budget circa £10-£40 million . Finish cost - £414.4 million.

Edinburgh tram system - Initial Budget circa £375 million - Current cost £770 million and projected to be over a billion pounds upon completion.

Meadowbank Stadium Revamp costed at £5-10million? Any bets on how much it will actually cost?

Fair point, Radge, they're certainly not know for the financial management skills

I'd rather we just stuck with Murrayfield personally, until the money is there for a proper rugby stadium. I can live with the lack of atmosphere, and in terms of location Meadowbank isn't handy at all.

The most viable funding idea I can think of is for the govt to start charging England for the use of our water supply. Judging by the drought forecasts water will shortly become more valuable than oil. The money can be hypothecated to two distinct funds: (i) the build Edinburgh rugby an awesome stadium close to fES's flat fund, and (ii) the bring Sean Maitland to Scotland fund.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd rather we just stuck with Murrayfield personally, until the money is there for a proper rugby stadium. I can live with the lack of atmosphere, and in terms of location Meadowbank isn't handy at all.

The most viable funding idea I can think of is for the govt to start charging England for the use of our water supply. Judging by the drought forecasts water will shortly become more valuable than oil. The money can be hypothecated to two distinct funds: (i) the build Edinburgh rugby an awesome stadium close to fES's flat fund, and (ii) the bring Sean Maitland to Scotland fund.

Can we reverse the order of those pls, fES?

No

Edinburgh would be wise to wait a few seasons and see how the fan base grows. If it declines they won't be able to afford rent. If it expands then they'll have money and that means options.

Also, the Murrayfield debt has put Scottish rugby back years. I'm not sure about the SRU finances but when they pay that off or get the debt under control things will be looking up.

I've said this before, but for me NO. It's a dreadful place to get to for those travelling from North of the Forth. I live in the city centre, so travel times are equal. The big killer is no decent meeting place nearby, Murrayfield has the Roseburn, Murrayfield Hotel, and loads of others, Meadowbank has the Hoppy. Doesn't work for me.

Really not overly excited by this. As has been said - don't fancy trecking out to Meadowbank on a Friday night. There's some really good boozers around Murrayfield - if you go into a boozer near Meadowbank you'll get stabbed!

Plus I don't think Murrayfield is that bad - if we can get 5000 people minimum each game, and have the pitchside standing, the atmosphere won't be too bad.

It was great with only 11 000 at the London Irish game!

+1 my friend who had never been to a pro rugby game before thought the whole LI matchday experience was great; at Murrayfield.

Interesting piece on scottishrugbyblog.co.uk:

Deja Vu As Edinburgh Go House-Hunting

by Rory Baldwin

Edinburgh followers have been here before, but the reporting of tentative discussions between the SRU and Edinburgh City Council on the occupation of a restored Meadowbank can only be greeted with anticipation.

Finding a suitable home for Edinburgh has been long overdue. Before settling at Murrayfield, Edinburgh’s peripatetic approach had seen games played throughout the capital, at Easter Road, Myreside, and Meadowbank, with moves to Sighthill, or an expanded Tynecastle also mooted at times. Such a track record is suggestive of a leadership unable to grasp the need to put down roots. A stadium is part of the brand, and an appropriate move for the team would be a statement of intent and an opportunity to build bridges with sports fans in the East.

That a new home is needed is plain. Murrayfield is far too big, and playing at the National Stadium undermines the individual identity of Edinburgh Rugby. Recent European games demonstrate that there has always been a serviceable appetite for pro rugby in the city, with supporters laying down a marker when Toulouse came to town, however it is also likely that many people turned up then because they knew they were guaranteed a good atmosphere. To grow as quickly as they should, Edinburgh need a smaller, more intimate venue that will allow an pulsating atmosphere to be regularly reproduced, and expected, at every home game.

Where that would be is now the question. All stadiums already mentioned are unsuitable in their current condition; Easter road and Tynecastle are arguably too big, with congested fixture lists, Myreside is too small. Meadowbank is dilapidated; however, this allows a rare opportunity to tailor any redesign to Edinburgh’s requirements.

With only one stand and a running track separating the stand from the pitch (and a general 1970s vibe) Meadowbank is not satisfactorily prepared. Potential is there, however, being not too far from pubs in Abbeyhill and adjacent to main roads. For Meadowbank to become suitable, it would need investment in hospitality and parking, a couple of new stands, and an overall capacity of around 10,000, reflecting current potential Demand for professional rugby. This should not be out of the question.

That the ground is central is also a plus point. Welsh clubs and Cardiff in particular have experienced declining crowd numbers, coinciding with a move from their traditional homes to impressively built out-of-town locations. It seems notable that the Dragons are opting to redevelop their existing ground at Rodney Parade. The three powerhouse Irish provinces have also committed to city centre locations, recognising that if the ground is relatively inaccessible, the club is too.

It is also important to get the funding right, something that Scottish Rugby has not always done – that central funds were not applied for during the redevelopment of Murrayfield in the mid-1990s is often highlighted as a big mistake. The most impressive venues in France have large council input, whilst the Department of Sport in Northern Ireland has recently invested £14.7 million in a new Ravenhill. This is enlightened, and recognises the role that rugby plays in the community and also the positive Economic benefits that an attractive, well-funded team may generate. Any new stadium should come with council backing.

That a well-known supermarket may be involved in the talks is not necessarily a bad thing, though. Most fans would prioritise above all a club that invests in the future. As long as there is a clear and credible stadium-plan that fits into the growth strategy of the club as a whole, it is unlikely that anyone will get too precious about naming rights, or land deals with private investors.

Other teams have made their moves a great success, moves which mostly came about due to perceived increased demand; Leinster’s crowd has grown from 3900 during the first Celtic League season to 12,500 season ticket holders alone today. This advancement was built around team success, retention of internationalists, good youth programmes, but also a stable structure. In 2007 Leinster signed a 20 year lease at the RDS, signalling commitment.

Many are tempted to dismiss stadium plans by saying that anything that happens will only occur two to three years down the line, but thinking from a long term point of view is essential for building success on the pitch. If Edinburgh Rugby is to be a serious proposition, then a move to something the fans can build into an intimidating fortress is needed. Everyone knows that Murrayfield is only a contingency venue – but could be a handy backup for big European games – and that the team and the fans need to occupy somewhere else they can call home.

Only once a decision is made can Edinburgh continue to maximise the momentum off the pitch that the team are building on it.

I don't really agree that Meadowbank is in a good location, but we aren't exactly spoilt for choice for new sites or existing stadiums that can be done up.

It is probably a 25 minute walk from Waverly station and a similar length bus ride from the West end of the city center, where most people gather before Edinburgh games. Also in terms of boozers, there's only a handful around the top of Leith walk/Queen street area that I'd consider going to and none of them have any kind of atmosphere as rugby pubs that you get at the West end or near Murrayfield (the Murrayfield, the Hampton, Teuchtars, Berts bar etc). You might say pubs shouldn't be at the forefront of the decision as to where to base a stadium, but it is a big part of the day or night out. I'd much rather have a pint at the Hampton before and after the game than anywhere in that part of town.

I'd be all for a shiny new stadium with great facilities (and a new pitch as the Meadowbank turf is awful) but I really don't think I'd go to as many games if it was that part of town - for practical reasons as much as anything else.

I genuinely believe that Murrayfield can be a good home for Edinburgh, if they can build the fan base. 3000 people at Murrayfield is soulless - 10 000 regularly and I think you'd have a good atmosphere when combined with the pitchside standing around 3 sides.

Unwilling to move with the times? Maybe I am. I really just don't like the idea of Edinburgh's home being at Meadowbank.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I don't really agree that Meadowbank is in a good location, but we aren't exactly spoilt for choice for new sites or existing stadiums that can be done up.

It is probably a 25 minute walk from Waverly station and a similar length bus ride from the West end of the city center, where most people gather before Edinburgh games. Also in terms of boozers, there's only a handful around the top of Leith walk/Queen street area that I'd consider going to and none of them have any kind of atmosphere as rugby pubs that you get at the West end or near Murrayfield (the Murrayfield, the Hampton, Teuchtars, Berts bar etc). You might say pubs shouldn't be at the forefront of the decision as to where to base a stadium, but it is a big part of the day or night out. I'd much rather have a pint at the Hampton before and after the game than anywhere in that part of town.

I'd be all for a shiny new stadium with great facilities (and a new pitch as the Meadowbank turf is awful) but I really don't think I'd go to as many games if it was that part of town - for practical reasons as much as anything else.

I genuinely believe that Murrayfield can be a good home for Edinburgh, if they can build the fan base. 3000 people at Murrayfield is soulless - 10 000 regularly and I think you'd have a good atmosphere when combined with the pitchside standing around 3 sides.

Unwilling to move with the times? Maybe I am. I really just don't like the idea of Edinburgh's home being at Meadowbank.

I think the point that the blogger makes is that you're unlikely to move from 3k to 10k at Murrayfield?

Agree that 10k is maybe a bit ambitious, but that number was only chosen as a representative figure. My main point being that I think Murrayfield is a good venue if we can build a larger regular fan base. 10 000 maybe isn't realistic week in week out, but we should at least be aiming for that kind of figure for the Heineken cup games.

Regarding the pubs, would the prospect of several thousand punters on a regular basis encourage the pubs around Meadowbank to improve somewhat - if it did happen there's a nice earner to be made with a "rugby central" pub for home and visiting fans.
Alternatively as Cardiff are aiming to do at the revamped Arms Park, could the redevelopment/imnprovements to the stadium include some sort of fan village with bars, food outlets, club shop etc. at the ground ?

Irish Londoner wrote:Regarding the pubs, would the prospect of several thousand punters on a regular basis encourage the pubs around Meadowbank to improve somewhat - if it did happen there's a nice earner to be made with a "rugby central" pub for home and visiting fans.
Alternatively as Cardiff are aiming to do at the revamped Arms Park, could the redevelopment/imnprovements to the stadium include some sort of fan village with bars, food outlets, club shop etc. at the ground ?

It's a short walk to Holyrood and the bottom end of the Royal Mile - I am certain the boozers there would rise to the occasion!

All this talk about Meadowbank being in the wilderness is nonsense.

All Bar one on George street is 1.8 miles from Meadowbank, and once you are there you can take your pick from dozens of bars and rose street is a whopping 5 minute walk from there.

Murrayfield to Teuchters is 1.2 miles.

So It's an extra 5-10 minute walk Meadowbank to the good areas in the town. Even less to the foot of the Royal mile.

Moving to Meadowbank IMO is a prerequisite of improving support for Edinburgh rugby. If the redevelopment of Scotstoun is anything to go by it will be a really nice place to go and watch rugby.

Since I have to get a train in to watch games it makes little differance to me where the games are played. I'll be relying on public transport anyway. So getting off at waverly and walking to meadowbank is pretty much the same as getting off at Haymarket and walking to Murrayfield.

George street bars?? You think we're made of money??

I suppose you are right, but I think I was mainly referring to the bars 5 minutes from the stadium - The Murrayfield, Hampton and at Roseburn etc. They are great places for large groups to meet and you know you're only 5 minute away from the stadium so can time your drinkiage well and not end up with a 15 minute run to the stadium after 4 pints of lager.

RDW_Scotland wrote:George street bars?? You think we're made of money??

I suppose you are right, but I think I was mainly referring to the bars 5 minutes from the stadium - The Murrayfield, Hampton and at Roseburn etc. They are great places for large groups to meet and you know you're only 5 minute away from the stadium so can time your drinkiage well and not end up with a 15 minute run to the stadium after 4 pints of lager.

Serves you right for drinking lager

Meadowbank eh ? We could call it the Wee Library !

Meadowbank has its positives and negatives.
I was a season ticket holder when they played there previously and back then it was lacking in atmosphere just like Murrayfield is now. The facilities were obviously pretty poor.
Parking wasn't too bad, since the games were normally at half 7 there is the meadowbank retail park where you could park easily.
There aren't many decent bars around that area but it isn't too far a walk from the city centre.
If the marketing team got their brains working they could quite easily have schemes on the go where they could run shuttle buses from the stadium into the city centre and establish a bar as the hub for the fans etc.
If they redevelop Meadowbank fro rugby then why not get some proper facilities like a bar/clubhouse put in so there is a meeting place for fans.

The fan base is improving in Edinburgh but lots could be done pretty easily to attract more people along. There is a big student population in Edinburgh which could easily be tapped into with offers etc.

Good point about Edinburgh's student population, there's over 70k at the 4 Unis and I've no idea how many at Colleges. Have always felt we don't target this market enough and raising student prices for next year won't help. I really think this is one trick the new SRU management are missing.

Memo to self to write to Dodson.