Outscoring your opponent in tries, but losing the test.

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 3:02 pm

Following a thread about which games you would like to see replayed, can you think of your own nation that has lost a test match when they have outscored the opponent by more than 2 tries?

I remember in 1997, the second British and Irish Lions test, we scored 3 tries to zero but lost the match.

I would like to know if there are tests where other countries have had similar situations happen, where they outscored the opponent by that many or more tries and still lost.

by red_stag Thu May 03, 2012 3:11 pm

Biltong don't be silly. In Munster we do the points scoring and leave the try scoring to others.

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 3:17 pm

red_stag wrote:Biltong don't be silly. In Munster we do the points scoring and leave the try scoring to others.

So the motto is outscore the opponent? Whistle

Novel idea. Outscoring your opponent in tries, but losing the test. Idunno10

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu May 03, 2012 3:40 pm

biltongbek wrote:Following a thread about which games you would like to see replayed, can you think of your own nation that has lost a test match when they have outscored the opponent by more than 2 tries?

I remember in 1997, the second British and Irish Lions test, we scored 3 tries to zero but lost the match.

I would like to know if there are tests where other countries have had similar situations happen, where they outscored the opponent by that many or more tries and still lost.

DB Clarke beat the Lions "on his own" in the 50s - 3 point tries in those days.
Hugo Porter kicked all Argentina's points in a draw with NZ in the 80s IIRC

by chewed_mintie Thu May 03, 2012 3:41 pm

Who would have thought of this result

1959 - 1st Test NZ 18- British Lions 17

Nothing new there, NZ have only lost a few times to the Lions but dig a little deeper...

NZ 18 - Penalties 6 D Clark

Lions 17 - Tries 2 Price, 1 Jackson, 1 O'Reilly Conv 1 Risman, Pens 1 Hewitt

4 tries to zip and still losing....that is unfair. But then again, we had the Boot playing.

On second thoughts though, we haven't always been known for our all out enthusiasm for attack...

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 3:51 pm

Mintie, that might be the worst try differential to lose a rugby match.

by Bullsbok Thu May 03, 2012 4:00 pm

not a test match but the Bulls recently beat the brumbies 36-34 despite being outscored 5 tries to 2

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 4:02 pm

Don't forget one of those tries SANZAR offically apologised for, yet when the Brumbies benefitted from a penalty for a supposed "wheeled scrum" against the Cheetahs, Linden Bray admitted it was an incorrect decision but no apology was deemed necessary.

by Bullsbok Thu May 03, 2012 4:05 pm

Heck Jonker got crucified for missing morne steyn's side knockon but nothing was said about the Brumbie fullback blatantly knocking on on his goal line in the same match but thts by the by. I'd think Either the Springboks or England would be the two teams winning the most despite being outscored??

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 4:08 pm

I checked that a while ago on SA, we don't often win matches by being outscored by the opponents, NZ and Oz have had some losses that way, but not as many as you would expect.

by Feckless Rogue Thu May 03, 2012 4:11 pm

Ireland outscored France 3-1 in 2011 but lost the game after a huge penalty count and Morgan Parra slotting them all over. Crying or Very sad

by Triangulation Thu May 03, 2012 4:21 pm

I was at Twickenham with an aussie friend november 2002.

The score at full time was England 32 Wallabies 31

From memory Johnny Wilkisnon slotted 7 from 8 that day

and i think wallabies scored 2 tries to our 1

and it was beautiful. Very Happy

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 4:24 pm

Look games lost when an opponent outscores you by only a try isn't much of an injustice as teams commit penalties to prevent tries from being scored.

But when a team has outscored you by 3 or more tries, chances are you were being obliterated in attack, and often cut apart on attack.

by thomh Thu May 03, 2012 4:26 pm

That game was 3 tries to 2. The South Africa game a week or two later was more beautiful though.

by Cowshot Thu May 03, 2012 4:27 pm

Purely because it really rankled with a close neighbour or two, England specialised in Zen rugby in the nineties and noughties. If Zen is drinking tea from an empty cup, Zen rugby is winning without scoring tries - or indeed appearing to do anything very much. The result was a series of moral victories for the opposition, which I'm sure consoled them greatly for their defeats. Whistle

Sadly, to win this way - whilst a height of refinement no other nation has so consistently reached as England - requires a very fine judgement, and when we felt it expedient to win a World Cup, we resorted to the rather crass but nonetheless effectively system of crushing all sides like bugs. Bwahahahaha. devil

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 4:32 pm

thomh wrote:That game was 3 tries to 2. The South Africa game a week or two later was more beautiful though.

Outscoring your opponent in tries, but losing the test. Shooti10

by LordDowlais Thu May 03, 2012 8:16 pm

Right Biltong, I cannot take this no more, I have asked once, and I will ask again, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THOSE FANCY AND ELABORATE SMILIES FROM?

by munkian Thu May 03, 2012 8:20 pm

I think Wales outscored England 3 tries to 2 when we played them at Twickers last year but we still lost the match

I've seen quite a few games recently teams have won a 4 try bonus point but still lost the match Shocked

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu May 03, 2012 8:31 pm

Scotland have done it so many times I can't remember the exact last time. Braveheart

These are what some call moral victories. I tend to view them as either the goal kicker was having an off day or that the ref had it in for us. Whatever the reasons, losing like this is no different to losing any other way. It still sucks the kumara.

by robbo277 Thu May 03, 2012 8:37 pm

The 18-15 Lions Vs South Africa game is actually the first game I remember watching. I have vague recollections of watching some of the tour games and the first test, but I remember vividly Jerry Guscott's winning drop goal.

Wales outscored England 3 tries to 1 in the 2003 World Cup quater-final but England won (28-17). France also outscored England 1 try to 0 in the semi-final, a match England won 24-7 (5 pens and 3 drop-goals for Wilkinson)!

Searching back, England and France had a little history in this regard. In 2003, France outscored England 3 tries to 1 at Twickenham, yet England picked up a 25-17 win. In the 2005 Six Nations England won the try count 2-0 but lost 18-17 to France. Yachvili did the damage that day at Twickenham, with the winner coming late on in the game.

by **Biltong** Thu May 03, 2012 10:22 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Right Biltong, I cannot take this no more, I have asked once, and I will ask again, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THOSE FANCY AND ELABORATE SMILIES FROM?

Read your private messages mate.

by Taffineastbourne Fri May 04, 2012 12:54 am

Paul Ringer match at Twickers.England won a GS against 14 man Welsh team despite 0-2 try count.Dusty Hare kicked 3 penalties.
I was there and have had a soft spot for the English ever since.A travesty.

by **LondonTiger** Fri May 04, 2012 2:01 am

Fact is, if you cheat you commit penalties (though to be fair too many offences allow a kick at goal).

Oh and under the original scoring method that 97 match would have been 6-0 to the Lions Very Happy

by wales606 Fri May 04, 2012 3:01 am

biltongbek wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Right Biltong, I cannot take this no more, I have asked once, and I will ask again, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THOSE FANCY AND ELABORATE SMILIES FROM?

Read your private messages mate.

But I want to know too Sad

...I promise to use them only for good and not go mad with power.

king

by SneakySideStep Fri May 04, 2012 4:01 pm

Taffineastbourne - the travesty was Rees not ruunning behind the posts to make the conversion more of a formality. Dusty Hare's winning kick was still a thing of beauty that sends a tingle down my spine every time I watch it. A truly awful game of rugby in skills terms, but it was raw competition.

by blackcanelion Fri May 04, 2012 6:25 pm

biltongbek wrote:Look games lost when an opponent outscores you by only a try isn't much of an injustice as teams commit penalties to prevent tries from being scored.

But when a team has outscored you by 3 or more tries, chances are you were being obliterated in attack, and often cut apart on attack.

Funny thing it's no where near as common as you would think. For instance there's about 1 a decade between the AB's and the boks (none before '49).

Mine would be 4 straight losses in the 49 series to the boks, despite scoring more tries than them in 3 of the tests. fred Allen said his proudest moment was that it took 13 years for someone to say anything bad about the refereeing. A different time I guess.

by **Biltong** Fri May 04, 2012 6:29 pm

I suppose it was more difficult to prove it then, the days there is so many camera's on a match, you can look at every incident from a number of angles

by blackcanelion Fri May 04, 2012 6:54 pm

I'm kind of glad we can't revisit it. I'm still undergoing therapy for 2007..... Best to leave it in the mythology. By the way 3rd test in '81 was an AB victory with the boks scoring more tries.

by **Biltong** Fri May 04, 2012 7:11 pm

Was that the one where Mordt scored his hattrick?

by Guest Fri May 04, 2012 8:11 pm

RWC 2003 quarter final wales out score england on tries

by sugarNspikes Fri May 04, 2012 8:31 pm

viewtothegym wrote:RWC 2003 quarter final wales out score england on tries

Read the OP.

biltongbek wrote:Following a thread about which games you would like to see replayed, can you think of your own nation that has lost a test match when they have outscored the opponent by more than 2 tries?

by Shifty Fri May 04, 2012 10:10 pm

I think Wales out scored Fiji in tries in 2007 but still managed to lose the game thanks to clueless refereeing and a terrible place kicking game from Wellies.

by **Biltong** Fri May 04, 2012 10:14 pm

Alyn it wasn't that bad, you outscored them by one try and missed two conversions.

by Shifty Sun May 06, 2012 10:07 am

biltongbek wrote:Alyn it wasn't that bad, you outscored them by one try and missed two conversions.

Stephen Jones hit the post 3 times! He missed loads of kicks Sad

by **LondonTiger** Sun May 06, 2012 11:28 am

Wales lost that game due to lousy tactics. They were dominant up front, stealing Fijian lineoutat will and driving them off their own ball. If they had chosen to play a more structured ganme they would have won easily. Instead they seemed intent to prove they could win by playing 7s style rugby. They failed.

by Guest Sun May 06, 2012 4:06 pm

True wales played a very loose game vs Fiji 2007, suicide mission

by gowales Wed May 16, 2012 9:46 am

As someone i know once said "we'll have to score more points than them to win today"

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