Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Diggers]

First topic message reminder :

I don't mind Paul Walsh at all, there are at least another 5 on the Sky Soccer Saturday that are way worse. Thompson is annoying , Nicolas just as bad, Merson is funny in an are you simple kind of way. George Best used to be worst of the lot.
I always found Graham Taylor's commentary annoying , that was his voice more than anything though.
In athletics Colin Jackson is very poor as is Denise Lewis.

[Fader]

Mac, that's a different perspective, he is undoubtedly on his day better than Kelly, but still at his age and lack of enthusiasm to be sub he brings nothing to the table.

[Nay]

Most sources appear to disagree with that Diggers and say he is decent going forwards and in defence, has never made any glaring errors and has performed solidly for Liverpool this season.

Some might say everything you want in a back up player

[Diggers]

The question is why pick Terry who destroyed the team spirit at the last world cup , it is hilarious that a guy who divides teams so much is considered a must for England as a leader.

[Diggers]

Most sources appear to disagree with that Diggers and say he is decent going forwards and in defence, has never made any glaring errors and has performed solidly for Liverpool this season.

Some might say everything you want in a back up player

Really , what are most sources? Have you seen him play ? Most of the Liverpool fans on the boards here don't rate him. He is at best an average Premiership player.
Richards should have been in at the start who can cover right back and centre half, that allows Ferdinand in and you don't take racist Terry who is not as good as Ferdinand and a disruptive influence.

[Fader]

Putting the race issue to one side, player for player on this seasons form I'd take Terry and Lescott over Ferdinand everytime. 2years ago that would have been a different story, but imo Ferdinand doesn't deserve his place anymore.

[Diggers]

Certainly Lescott but for me Rio has been much better than Terry this year.

[Fader]

That's where we disagree then diggers, I think ferdinand has had an average season at best when he's actually been fit.

[navyblueshorts]

Ferdinand's an arse and his agent is worse. Who the Hell does he think he is to post rubbish on Twitter just because he's not going? If Hodgson doesn't want/need him, suck it up. Hodgson doesn't need to justify it to anyone if he doesn't feel the need to. Talk about unprofessional. There's only a lack of respect coming from one direction and it isn't Hodgson.
Personally, I'd have dropped the whole lot of the so-called 'golden generation' () and gone with a development squad minus egos and an actual desire to play for the honour of doing so.
I hope Hodgson sticks to his guns. If I were him, it'd be last time Richards or Ferdinand (Carrick's retired from international football has he? Big of him) is anywhere near an England squad.

[Diggers]

It's not been Ferdinands best season but I think Terry has been genuinely poor most of the year.

[Diggers]

Ferdinand's an arse and his agent is worse. Who the Hell does he think he is to post rubbish on Twitter just because he's not going? If Hodgson doesn't want/need him, suck it up. Hodgson doesn't need to justify it to anyone if he doesn't feel the need to. Talk about unprofessional. There's only a lack of respect coming from one direction and it isn't Hodgson.
Personally, I'd have dropped the whole lot of the so-called 'golden generation' () and gone with a development squad minus egos and an actual desire to play for the honour of doing so.
I hope Hodgson sticks to his guns. If I were him, it'd be last time Richards or Ferdinand (Carrick's retired from international football has he? Big of him) is anywhere near an England squad.

What does Carricks retired, big of him, even mean ? Is he not allowed to retire, which by the way he did on a very low key and unfussy way ?
On the one hand you slate a player for voicing an opinion about wanting to play and on the other hand you have a go at players saying they don't want to go.

[McLaren]

Navy

I guess you are not a man utd man?

[Fader]

Nice to see Paul Merson slating Rio's agent for his actions and how if he were rio he'd consider his agents position

also I see Joey Bartons in the press for further physical actions! This time in a nightclub brawl

[Diggers]

Yeah , Merson, there's an eloquent and intelligent guy we should be taking notice of.

[Fader]

At least he's been there diggers and played for the national team so he has more insight than you or I...

Wonder who barton will blame for his latest arrest

[super_realist]

Footballers, particularly many of the high profile English ones, are absolute cockends.
Why does anyone listen to what they have to say.

[kwinigolfer]

Paul Paragon of Virtue Merson!

Blimey,
Completely agree with Diggers on this one. Ferdinand is only not in the squad because Terry called his brother a blankblank. Not sure about lunatics running the asylum but the prisoners are surely in charge of the penitentiary. Certifiably daft. Terry should have been tried and judged and all this behind us months ago.

While I don't understand why Richards wasn't in the original squad, it would be interesting to see a list of those who have opted out. Clearly Foster and Robinson, Carrick, Scholes (if that matters) and Richards (who apparently wouldn't go on "standby"). Anyone else?

[Fader]

Any footballer like Ferdinand, Carrick, Foster etc that refuses to be in a squad unless they're starting isn't worth arguing about anyway. No-one has the right to a place in any team whether it be the national team or sunday league fatboys team, earn your place on merit and if you aren't picked man up and deal with it then support your nation regardless.

A good example of pro's at this level to take note of how they dealt with being left out Beckham and Pearce.

[Diggers]

When has Ferdinand ever said he won't play unless he starts ?

[McLaren]

I guess I am just a biased man utd fan but the treatment of Ferdinand is appalling. He has basically been dropped for not showing willing to ignore the fact Terry racially abused his brother. Can someone explain to me what happens if (when) terry is found guilty?

[kwinigolfer]

Agree, Ferdinand being treated as the victim here. Don't believe he ever said anything other than he'd want to be at the Euros.

Whatever happens to Terry the FA will look even more stupid than they do now.

[McLaren]

Kwini

How are the jubilee celebrations going in Vermont?

[mystiroakey]

Its clear to most that even though terry isnt captain in name he is still captain. I know thats sad but thats the way it is, and was probally in better fitness and form than rio when the original selections were made.

To pick Ferdinand in the team we would have had to get rid of Terry- its one or the other ,neither but not both. That decision was made before and obviously would have never been changed even if we would have had to bring in a championship defender.

The sad truth is tho- Terry isnt aggresively racist at all- he said some choice words due to this upbringing and lack of vocabulary- I can tell that he is midly xenaphobic but not someone i could ever class as a racist- even if he called someone something bad at the time. We have all done it guys- dont try and make out we havent- And that goes for all races.. We are going to a place in this tourny that is so behind us when it comes to tolerance on other cultures and skin colour- this issue should have been dealt with long ago in my mind., i know sepp blatter was wrong to say 'just shake hands', but all the same If terry had said something offensive he should have just apoligised and done everything he could to solve the issue. Terry lied blatantly half time v barca 2nd leg when he was sent off- he then back tracked and apoligised- the guy has prooved to be a lier and id say he is also someone to probally say some offensive comments to other players- i am not sure if he treated the person only because he was black though- that is the point here- he may hjave based a comment on his skin colour, but if anton was white he would still have ripped him in a nother way.

We need to be clear on the difference between ignorance and real racism.. Real racism is treating someone differently because of there skin colour. What terry did wasnt that.

[kwinigolfer]

Terry's a scumbag, half-fit, terrible captain for England, thinks he's above censure. Great player in his day, which is someway behind him.

"We have all done it guys"? Would strongly suggest that ain't so . . . . . . .

[mystiroakey]

I think most have had a go at someone and used a word that discribes them. i think most have. he supposedly called him a black c....

That is wrong but not what i would call racist. its the same situ as willams/tiger etc

[McLaren]

"We have all done it guys"

Err, no we havn't.

Mysti, do yourself a favour. Dont repeat some of the things you have posted above in the real world. I dont think it will win you many friends.

[mystiroakey]

Mc i would and i do.- People are so touchy and try to make out there havent because it has become so taboo. Its ridciuals

[Doon the Water]

Can golfers still be 'blackballed' from joining a club?

[mystiroakey]

if people really want to say they have never called someone (to there face or behind there back) a descripive word(based on the colour of there skin or ethincity) with an insult attached I will say i am either very surprised or they are lieing!

Sadly you will here these things in many golf clubs 19th holes almost on a daily basis

[Diggers]

How can you use ignorance as an excuse for Terry ? You can't surely suggest after years of working with black guys that he didn't know what he said was completely unacceptable ? He's stupid, but not that stupid.
Everyone says the same, he's not really a racist blah blah. Well how about maybe he actually is ?

[mystiroakey]

He could well be abit and i am sure of that. However my point is more about what do we deem as racist.

I look at racism as singling out a group or a person and treating them differently to others based on skin colour or ethnicity. Not having a go at someone in an inflamed situation- but adding a descriptive word in there(especially when that descriptive word isnt the insulting part of the comment)

by the way i am not excusing him at all. guy is a tool and as i mentioned lied very recently on TV about that sending off

[Diggers]

I take your point , the problem is the guy is meant to lead by example , England are meant to be part of the fight against racism and we have Terry back in the side even though he did this on camera in front of thousands of kids.
Also Rio is a huge supporter of football against racism , he knows full well he hasn't been picked because it was him or Terry. No wonder the guy is peed off under the circumstances.

[kwinigolfer]

Mac,
Watched some of the boat race on the Thames yesterday, shame about the weather which fitted most American caricatures of London's summers. Pretty much identical here today, of course, low 50's and day-long drizzle.

It was being shown Live on BBC America, but was shocked by the naivete and inarticulate nature of the coverage; hyperbole overload in the first twenty minutes. Some of these people make Iain Carter look halfway respectable.

[mystiroakey]

I would be very annoyed with that situation as well. I am not blaming rio at all. The problem is because terry is lieing about what he said after he said it.(because it possibly cant be prooved). If he had just admitted it and apoligised anton and rio may well ave forgiven him!

Maybe the problem is because some people do deem what he said as being racist even though i am arguing that it isnt neccesarily the action of a truely racist indivudual. Therefore if he admits it then he will be guilty of racism and be racist by association!

Anyway i am allowing terry to much leeway here in a way, because that guy has caused rifts in the england camp for other things- so he just shouldnt have been picked end of story. Rio should have been chosen

[Diggers]

Completely agree.

[mystiroakey]

[super_realist]

"We have all done it guys"

Err, no we havn't.

Mysti, do yourself a favour. Dont repeat some of the things you have posted above in the real world. I dont think it will win you many friends.

Mac, its hilarious how you paint yourself as some self righteous holier than thou libertarian, presumably because you think that is how society would like everyone to be or rather that is how you like to be seen.

However there is no such utopia. Even in the offices of your favourite socialist rag I'm sure you'll find some prejudice, usually towards the hardworking, entrepreneurial and wealthier sectors of society. In fact you have often shown to be prejudiced against people who have had the gall to work hard and earn money, rather than the lay about deadbeat who you think deserves handouts.

Of course no one would condone racism, but it exists almost everywhere, but don't pretend you are whiter than white (see what I did there?) Just because it fits in with your pipe dream agenda.

[Diggers]

I can honestly say I don't know a single person who has gone up to someone and called them a black so and so, not one.
Maybe you are all a bit more racist in Scotland Super, Mac apart.

[super_realist]

I don't know anyone either Diggers, I'm merely pointing out how convenient it is that mac paints himself as some sort of paragon of virtue, who loves everyone and everything although I doubt he does.

Of course I'm not saying he's racist as he clearly isn't, anymore than I or you are, but it is the sheer level of his piousness and primness and how judgmental he is on anyone who dares to go again guardian agenda that makes me doubt any real sincerity he has for this so called tolerance and inclusiveness he likes to promote. I get the impression he paints himself as that not because he is, but because its how he likes to be seen. A champagne socialist.

To think that mac has never had a go at fat, gay, ginger, stupid, foreign, or anyone else in his life is ludicrous. No one could be that pc.

Maybe its just the way he writes, but its the 'offended on other peoples behalf' mentality he has which is usually more offensive than the original slur.
I once got a pm from him rebuking me for calling Federers wife a boiler. A popular opinion, but apparently not allowed in macs tepid utopia

[mystiroakey]

I can honestly say I don't know a single person who has gone up to someone and called them a black so and so, not one.
Maybe you are all a bit more racist in Scotland Super, Mac apart.

diggers i dont either- but that wasnt really the point i was trying to make. I didnt make it brilliantly i agree. But the point sort of stands if you can un derstand what i really mean.

Basically we have all said indiscritionary things about a 'group of people' occasionally- especially if we are older and we would here it as standard on our tv day upon day

[oldparwin]

You must give the Manager respect for his decision to pick the players, he thinks are best for his team/game plan

The Manager must build for the future, so why pick some players who might be past their best, as he has said its the world cup he has his eyes on, so he needs to start building a side that will be able to compete.

[Diggers]

No side with Kelly or Henderson in it will be competing Oldparwin, they are not good enough.

[super_realist]

Has Roy realistically got his eye on any competitions as realistic winners? of course not, he's a clever man.
England are in the second tier of teams who will never win anything like Sweden, Russia, Czech republic etc.

[Diggers]

True , I'm always happy to see Poultry , GPrat and El Sulk to do badly.
Not everyone can do well after all.

[Diggers]

Glorious evening down on the south coast. Shame our street party is tomorrow really when it's due to tank down.
Anyone else decorated their house front ?

[McLaren]

Super

Just because I use a scargill bed sheet when the tiger one is in the wash does not mean I am some sort of nut job.

Kiwni

I have not, and probably wont watch any of the Jubilee stuff. Not really opposed to people celebrating it - in fact if I were invited to a srteet party i would go - just not really my cup of tea. It's a free day off work as well so cant complain about that.

[mystiroakey]

"Not really opposed to people celebrating it - in fact if I were invited
to a srteet party i would go - just not really my cup of tea. It's a
free day off work as well so cant complain about that."


"Mysti, do yourself a favour. Dont repeat some of the things you have
posted above in the real world. I dont think it will win you many
friends."

You havent been invited to a street party?

Blimey I have been invited to 8 of them. Maybe I shouldnt be so opinionated or it could have been more.. Whats your excuse?

[Slowride]

Has JT actually been found guilty yet? I must've missed that story

[mystiroakey]

I think people are just reading between the very clear lines Slowride.

However either way i dont think he is guilty of racism. But from an England point of view all that matters is that he is again a part of a rift in the potential england football team.

[Diggers]

I'm trying to think but I'm struggling to come up with a more unpleasant charachter in sport than Terry.
Cue Super to put forwards Tigger.

[super_realist]

I wouldn't say Woods is that unpleasant diggers, certainly not as unpleasant as terry, more laugh an hour than laugh a minute, he's just exceptionaly boring, drab, dreary, joyless, wooden, predictable and incapable of spontaneous and interesting soundbites.

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