Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Diggers]

First topic message reminder :

I don't mind Paul Walsh at all, there are at least another 5 on the Sky Soccer Saturday that are way worse. Thompson is annoying , Nicolas just as bad, Merson is funny in an are you simple kind of way. George Best used to be worst of the lot.
I always found Graham Taylor's commentary annoying , that was his voice more than anything though.
In athletics Colin Jackson is very poor as is Denise Lewis.

[mystiroakey]

Maybe i deviated on topic- but the fact Is we are getting posts on here saying that its typical of an argentinian sportsman. That isnt typical of a british tennis player or golfer(elite sports). Therefore junior talent maybe getting cast out of our country for reasons that they wouldnt get cast out for from another countr

I think it was only one post about it being typical of Argentinians but I agree it was pretty unpleasant. I decided to ignore it as the poster would just claim it as a "joke" and that I was being too sensitive.

Its not realy a joke- there is an element of truth behind it. But i am not focusing on the negative aspect of the point. You are

[Diggers]

The park next top me has 6 tennis courts which anyone can book for peanuts though I think there might be a little club as well. They are pretty much always empty. When I was a kid we would always be down the park or using the school courts. Doesnt seem to happen anymore, too much Nintendo ?
Of course what we didnt get was any coaching which is probably the big problem and where the LTA comes into the equation.

[mystiroakey]

The park next top me has 6 tennis courts which anyone can book for peanuts though I think there might be a little club as well. They are pretty much always empty. When I was a kid we would always be down the park or using the school courts. Doesnt seem to happen anymore, too much Nintendo ?
Of course what we didnt get was any coaching which is probably the big problem and where the LTA comes into the equation.

Have we got worse or better at tennis though diggs..

The fact is its about a club (competitive envioroment). I am sure most of us if not all used to go into fields and whack balls around(akin to the crappy courts in parks)- but we didnt develop our golfing skills untill we played at clubs and played in comps.

[Diggers]

Thats why I mentioned the coaching. But again I dont think its that expensive to join a tennis club as a junior, certainly not in the north. But a bit like golf you wouldnt seem to join unless your parents played the game so it was all a bit limited.
No idea how it works down South though.

[Hibbz]

Maybe i deviated on topic- but the fact Is we are getting posts on here saying that its typical of an argentinian sportsman. That isnt typical of a british tennis player or golfer(elite sports). Therefore junior talent maybe getting cast out of our country for reasons that they wouldnt get cast out for from another countr

I think it was only one post about it being typical of Argentinians but I agree it was pretty unpleasant. I decided to ignore it as the poster would just claim it as a "joke" and that I was being too sensitive.

Its not realy a joke- there is an element of truth behind it. But i am not focusing on the negative aspect of the point. You are

I am. To make a remark about a whole countries population based on the actions of one person is deeply unpleasant. You say there is an element of truth, but unless you've met a large number of Argentinians that is also pretty unpleasant.

I don't even think Argentinian sportsmen/women have been involved in more incidents that any other nationality have they? I can only think of Maradona's handball that was even controversial off hand.

[mystiroakey]

Correct Diggs, And why i brought up the two different experiences i personally had playing tennis and golf at a competitive level.

Although both seem to be elitist - Golf was more welcoming and lenient at the competitive level.

Now that may have just been my experience only. But I believe there could be some element of truth behind it

Loads of people play golf at the public courses. But no one gets to any level untill they start playing within a competitive enviroment.

[mystiroakey]

Maybe i deviated on topic- but the fact Is we are getting posts on here saying that its typical of an argentinian sportsman. That isnt typical of a british tennis player or golfer(elite sports). Therefore junior talent maybe getting cast out of our country for reasons that they wouldnt get cast out for from another countr

I think it was only one post about it being typical of Argentinians but I agree it was pretty unpleasant. I decided to ignore it as the poster would just claim it as a "joke" and that I was being too sensitive.

Its not realy a joke- there is an element of truth behind it. But i am not focusing on the negative aspect of the point. You are

I am. To make a remark about a whole countries population based on the actions of one person is deeply unpleasant. You say there is an element of truth, but unless you've met a large number of Argentinians that is also pretty unpleasant.

I don't even think Argentinian sportsmen/women have been involved in more incidents that any other nationality have they? I can only think of Maradona's handball that was even controversial off hand.

Hibbz i was grouping british elitest attitudes against the rest of the world(including argentina). I was not generalising against argentinians- Just us brits within what we feel are elitest sports.

Yes i know i have deviated- but It was never my intention of picking on other countries bar our own. That comment sent me off on a tangent.

[Hibbz]

I think the reason children don't play tennis is that it's an incredibly frustrating sport to play unless you have quite a high level of ability. One half hour session spent not getting the ball back across the net would be enough for most kids.

Most other sports including golf can be enjoyed with very little ability at a young age.

Doesn't really explain why other countries children stick at it I guess but maybe they don't have all the other options available to children in England and therefore have to stick with the tennis.

[mystiroakey]

Hibbz it goes way deeper than that

[mystiroakey]

By the way - there is no more frustrating sport than golf!!

It takes alot longer to get to a half decent level. tennis obviously requires more fitness however the reason kids will deviate to the other sports is because of the set up at the competitive level(full of dinosaurs)

[Hibbz]

Maybe i deviated on topic- but the fact Is we are getting posts on here saying that its typical of an argentinian sportsman. That isnt typical of a british tennis player or golfer(elite sports). Therefore junior talent maybe getting cast out of our country for reasons that they wouldnt get cast out for from another countr

I think it was only one post about it being typical of Argentinians but I agree it was pretty unpleasant. I decided to ignore it as the poster would just claim it as a "joke" and that I was being too sensitive.

Its not realy a joke- there is an element of truth behind it. But i am not focusing on the negative aspect of the point. You are

I am. To make a remark about a whole countries population based on the actions of one person is deeply unpleasant. You say there is an element of truth, but unless you've met a large number of Argentinians that is also pretty unpleasant.

I don't even think Argentinian sportsmen/women have been involved in more incidents that any other nationality have they? I can only think of Maradona's handball that was even controversial off hand.

Hibbz i was grouping british elitest attitudes against the rest of the world(including argentina). I was not generalising against argentinians- Just us brits within what we feel are elitest sports

Again I'm struggling but are you saying that the British people that play Tennis are more elitist than for example the Argentinian people that play Tennis? I've no experience but I'd say the reverse was almost certainly true. I expect a far higher percentage of the British play Tennis than Argentinians. I've just looked on Wiki and there it also states (obviously just someones opinion) that Tennis is considered an upper middle class sport in Argentina.

[Hibbz]

By the way - there is no more frustrating sport than golf!!

It takes alot longer to get to a half decent level. tennis obviously requires more fitness however the reason kids will deviate to the other sports is because of the set up at the competitive level(full of dinosaurs)

My point is that people/children can still enjoy playing bad golf (a bad golfer hits one good shot in a round and is happy with their day, a good golfer hits one bad shot and it's been a bad day)

It only takes one bad tennis player in a pairing and the game is ruined for both.

[Hibbz]

Hibbz it goes way deeper than that

I'll refer you back to one of my original comments. With a population the size of Britain's I don't think it's possible to be world-class at all sports they attempt to participate in.

[mystiroakey]

To be honest i am struggling with any points you are trying to make.

Dont look at argentina- that was never my debate. In my post its very clear that i mentioned the rest of the world.

If you really want to concentrate on argentina- then please note that golf is also considered a middle-high class sport in our country but as i have mentioned is making strides past the elitest stigma.

Just because the majority of a sprt is played by middle class up doesnt mean the sport has to be unwelcoming .. Maybe argentina should also try and bring the sport to the masses as well- thats fine.. I am concentrating on our system

[Diggers]

Id have to go along with the golf being the tougher one to play personally but that could well just be down to me. You usually get a bit of basic tuition at most schools dont you, certainly we did and the schools all had courts.
Obviously playing either of them properly is a different matter.

[mystiroakey]

Hibbz it goes way deeper than that

I'll refer you back to one of my original comments. With a population the size of Britain's I don't think it's possible to be world-class at all sports they attempt to participate in.

]

refer to the very obvious point i made earlier.

every other sport that we invented we compete at- tennis we dont. Doesnt that alarm bell ring. I like your stance when we discuss why are england not the best at football or rugby or cricket- blah blah. Because it is relevant. But not to tennis. We suck big time and are way below where we could be..

We are not world class at any sport at present(bar one- test cricket). But we are competitive in al bar tennis which sticks out like a sore thumb

[Hibbz]

Mysti, why are you so certain the "masses" actually want to play tennis? Perhaps they are perfectly happy with football, drinking, fighting, shagging and multiplying?

[McLaren]

Mysti

Why do you ask if I enjoy my life?

[Diggers]

Have to disagree on the world class thing. Cycling, rowing, and sailing we are right up there.
Admittedly the latter two are elitist but certainly not cycling. The swimming is coming along nicely as well.

[mystiroakey]

Hibbz i want sport to grow in this country- because sport is awesome. And it can solve social issues. We have had the debate that you just dont care, that is probally where we differ

[mystiroakey]

Mysti

Why do you ask if I enjoy my life?

Oh sorry was it an irrelavant question

[Hibbz]

Hibbz it goes way deeper than that

I'll refer you back to one of my original comments. With a population the size of Britain's I don't think it's possible to be world-class at all sports they attempt to participate in.

]

refer to the very obvious point i made earlier.

every other sport that we invented we compete at- tennis we dont. Doesnt that alarm bell ring. I like your stance when we discuss why are england not the best at football or rugby or cricket- blah blah. Because it is relevant. But not to tennis. We suck big time and are way below where we could be..

We are not world class at any sport at present(bar one- test cricket). But we are competitive in al bar tennis which sticks out like a sore thumb

Er, I think we agree why England are not good at tennis mate. We both agree it's because of low participation levels don't we? I could name any number of sports England are equally bad at. Course England are way below where they could be, but as I say in order to get good at Tennis another sport will need to be sacrificed.

[Skydriver]

There's another sports-related peculiarity in the news today - a country cricketer has been killed having been run over by a London tube train...???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18492564

[mystiroakey]

Have to disagree on the world class thing. Cycling, rowing, and sailing we are right up there.
Admittedly the latter two are elitist but certainly not cycling. The swimming is coming along nicely as well.

We are good at sport on the whole considering the amount we compete in:thumbsup:

tennis is an anomoly- we have a major championship in this country- we must do better from my POV

[mystiroakey]

Hibbz it goes way deeper than that

I'll refer you back to one of my original comments. With a population the size of Britain's I don't think it's possible to be world-class at all sports they attempt to participate in.

]

refer to the very obvious point i made earlier.

every other sport that we invented we compete at- tennis we dont. Doesnt that alarm bell ring. I like your stance when we discuss why are england not the best at football or rugby or cricket- blah blah. Because it is relevant. But not to tennis. We suck big time and are way below where we could be..

We are not world class at any sport at present(bar one- test cricket). But we are competitive in al bar tennis which sticks out like a sore thumb

Er, I think we agree why England are not good at tennis mate. We both agree it's because of low participation levels don't we? I could name any number of sports England are equally bad at. Course England are way below where they could be, but as I say in order to get good at Tennis another sport will need to be sacrificed.

well they wont be golfers mate-- the point you made earlier

[Hibbz]

Have to disagree on the world class thing. Cycling, rowing, and sailing we are right up there.
Admittedly the latter two are elitist but certainly not cycling. The swimming is coming along nicely as well.

Yep and now England/Britain are good at cycling it would appear Athletics has probably suffered as a result. Gives strength to the "Hibbz Theory"

[navyblueshorts]

FWIW, I don't think Nalbandian for one second realised someone was sat there. All he saw in his fury was a board to kick. In addition, who's moronic idea is/was it to stick a microphone up someone's nose just after any sort of sporting event has just concluded and expect a half-decent response?

[Diggers]

Hibbz it goes way deeper than that

I'll refer you back to one of my original comments. With a population the size of Britain's I don't think it's possible to be world-class at all sports they attempt to participate in.

]

refer to the very obvious point i made earlier.

every other sport that we invented we compete at- tennis we dont. Doesnt that alarm bell ring. I like your stance when we discuss why are england not the best at football or rugby or cricket- blah blah. Because it is relevant. But not to tennis. We suck big time and are way below where we could be..

We are not world class at any sport at present(bar one- test cricket). But we are competitive in al bar tennis which sticks out like a sore thumb

Er, I think we agree why England are not good at tennis mate. We both agree it's because of low participation levels don't we? I could name any number of sports England are equally bad at. Course England are way below where they could be, but as I say in order to get good at Tennis another sport will need to be sacrificed.

Im not sure thats totally true Hibbz. There are plenty of kids who play no competitive sport whatsoever, so if tennis were able to target those kind of kids then it wouldnt impact on other sports. Of course the question as to whether the talent pool in that group would be very big is debateable as if they were athletic then you suspect that they would be playing some form of sport.
However plenty of kids mature at different ages so maybe get missed and also its about maybe using sports like tennis to change/interest kids with bad attitudes. Lots of kids get no encouragement from their parents at all. The only way for sports like tennis to help them is to set up community groups and work with schools.

[mystiroakey]

Your theory is relevant- however we are still not utilising our population as effective as we can.

There are plenty of un tapped sportsman working in admin jobs for councils etc wasting there lifes away. What do we do to get them into sport

[Diggers]

FWIW, I don't think Nalbandian for one second realised someone was sat there. All he saw in his fury was a board to kick. In addition, who's moronic idea is/was it to stick a microphone up someone's nose just after any sort of sporting event has just concluded and expect a half-decent response?

Considering the board was tiny compared to the linesman I really dont see how thats an excuse to be honest. He is a grown man of 30, why are we making up excuses for his actions, I wouldnt expect that from a teenager. Again he has plenty of previous of this kind of thing so why should he get cut any slack ?

[navyblueshorts]

I'm not saying forgive the guy (he obviously has a temper) but if you think he saw the linesman and still kicked out I think you're mistaken. He never even looked up.

[mystiroakey]

Yeah he never looked up- i think the point here is that

Do we punish people on intent or the outcome?

Would he have been DQ'd if there wasnt an officals leg in the way!

But all the same i completly agree that it is fair to DQ him.

[Diggers]

He had been playing on that court for well over an hour. I dont see how its possible for him not to have noticed how the boardings were set up and who was behind them. Im guessing they were like that all week, do we think he is blind and retarded ?
Im sure in his rage he just didnt care, I suspect he didnt imagine they were going to move and hurt the guy but thats really not the point.
It was a stupid act in the first place and the fact that it had a nasty consequence compounded it.

[mystiroakey]

I think in his rage he just didnt realise- it was reactionary kinda like terrys comment-- cough cough. Nope i dont wanna bring that up again!!

[navyblueshorts]

What he did's exactly the same as Henman but the difference appears to be he's not Henman, is Argentinian (*gasp*) and there was a bit of blood.
The other thing that got Sue all in a twist and seems to be driving the coverage is the sheer surprise factor in what he did - I'm not sure that counts for much though.

Digs

I'm sure he knew where things were but they didn't impact at that moment. Have you ever had a real moment of anger? He wouldn't even have considered anyone was there - doesn't mean he should be forgiven but you seem to implying he kicked the guy while in full control of his rational faculties.

[mystiroakey]

well its no different from throwing your racket- loads of players have done it. A racket could bounce up and hit an offical in theory

We only remember when these actions affect someone else

[Hibbz]

Your theory is relevant- however we are still not utilising our population as effective as we can.

There are plenty of un tapped sportsman working in admin jobs for councils etc wasting there lifes away. What do we do to get them into sport :thumbsup:

Not everyone likes sport Mysti, besides the number that would make it as professional sportsmen/women is minuscule so they'd still have to work. You're far better targeting those who's hobbies include things such as going to the cinema, going to museums, art galleries, rock concerts and the like. Would you say they're wasting their lives?

I mean they could be sat in front of a computer talking about sport.

[navyblueshorts]

...I mean they could be sat in front of a computer talking about sport.

[Hibbz]

What he did's exactly the same as Henman but the difference appears to be he's not Henman, is Argentinian (*gasp*) and there was a bit of blood.
The other thing that got Sue all in a twist and seems to be driving the coverage is the sheer surprise factor in what he did - I'm not sure that counts for much though.

Digs

I'm sure he knew where things were but they didn't impact at that moment. Have you ever had a real moment of anger? He wouldn't even have considered anyone was there - doesn't mean he should be forgiven but you seem to implying he kicked the guy while in full control of his rational faculties.

I'd say the major difference is that Henman hitting the ball or anyone throwing their bat has the potential to cause injury, kicking a board directly in front of a bald man in a suit is a near certainty to do so.

[mystiroakey]

Your theory is relevant- however we are still not utilising our population as effective as we can.

There are plenty of un tapped sportsman working in admin jobs for councils etc wasting there lifes away. What do we do to get them into sport

Not everyone likes sport Mysti, besides the number that would make it as professional sportsmen/women is minuscule so they'd still have to work. You're far better targeting those who's hobbies include things such as going to the cinema, going to museums, art galleries, rock concerts and the like. Would you say they're wasting their lives?

I mean they could be sat in front of a computer talking about sport.

the comment was a private joke to someone on here Hibbz...

but all the same

[Diggers]

Navy, where is anyone excusing Henman ? At the time he got hammered. But if you want to know a diference between the two incidents Henman was was mortified and apologised profuesly. Fat Dave clearly could barely care less about what happened. The fact he showed no remorse suggests he didnt really care what happened in the first place.
Once again...he threw water over an official at the Aussie Open and abused other official...does these strike you as the acts of someone who cares about anyone else on court. So Im not willing to give him the benefit af any doubt.

[mystiroakey]

Yeah its a good point- Henman apoligised. He was mortified.

The only peops i feel sorry for this time is the fans... Were they refunded?

[mystiroakey]

If he was DQ'd does that mean he doesnt get the prize money?

That could have been used to pay the fans back!!

[navyblueshorts]

Digs

Fair enough. As I said, I'm not saying he shouldn't be censured. I just don't think he set out to injure an official.

[raycastleunited]

Hmm it sounded pretty much like you were trying to impress people with your "outrageous" antics to me.

I'd suggest the problem as you call it for British tennis is much the same for other sports in that Britain doesn't specialise in sports. The population isn't large enough to produce world class athletes across all disciplines.

Then again it can only be considered a problem if your enjoyment of sport is affected by the need to attach yourself to someone who happens to have been born in the same country as yourself.

A very observant comment

[mystiroakey]

Hmm it sounded pretty much like you were trying to impress people with your "outrageous" antics to me.

I'd suggest the problem as you call it for British tennis is much the same for other sports in that Britain doesn't specialise in sports. The population isn't large enough to produce world class athletes across all disciplines.

Then again it can only be considered a problem if your enjoyment of sport is affected by the need to attach yourself to someone who happens to have been born in the same country as yourself.

A very observant comment

It couldnt be more wrong from my pov.
To start with the first part is rubbish.And he missunderstood the point i was making

secondly - Tennis's problems are much worse than due to our population- as said previously , we compete at all sports we invented bar tennis.There is something clearly wrong at grass roots..

thirdly. There is no correlation with wanting your country to improve at sport and enjoying sport. Most of us play sports, have favs from many different countries, but at the same time want our own countries sportsman to also do well. They are not exculsive of each other.

[barragan]

I played a lot of tennis as a junior, until taking up golf. Lack of opportunity to play against similar skill levels probably a significant factor for me giving it up. Plus the fact that all adults were odd that played at our club and none of them were willing to take us on even for a laugh. Golf on the other hand was more inclusive. Never trouble getting a game and it rarely mattered what level you played at our(partly thanks to the handicap system). But i'd say the main reason for giving tennis the boot for golf was the addiction factor.

[super_realist]

So England are going to stroll past Ukraine today are they?

Certainly doesn't look like that at half time.

C'mon Ukraine.

[1GrumpyGolfer]

So England are going to stroll past Ukraine today are they?

Certainly doesn't look like that at half time.

C'mon Ukraine.

Sorry Super, it looks like there will be plenty of bandwagon jumping going on now.

Maybe we should make it an olympic sport, we'd surely win gold medals then.

[super_realist]

Why do England have a star on their shirt whilst in the Euros?
I know it signifies a world cup 46 years ago but what relevance has it in this competition.
Living in the past is part of Englands reason for failure and false expectation. Get it off immediately.

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