Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Diggers]

First topic message reminder :

I don't mind Paul Walsh at all, there are at least another 5 on the Sky Soccer Saturday that are way worse. Thompson is annoying , Nicolas just as bad, Merson is funny in an are you simple kind of way. George Best used to be worst of the lot.
I always found Graham Taylor's commentary annoying , that was his voice more than anything though.
In athletics Colin Jackson is very poor as is Denise Lewis.

[navyblueshorts]

On a completely different note: David Beckham is the most over-rated professional footballer of this or any era. Discuss.

[mystiroakey]

not true

[incontinentia]

On a completely different note: David Beckham is the most over-rated professional footballer of this or any era. Discuss.

kaka?

[Diggers]

On a completely different note: David Beckham is the most over-rated professional footballer of this or any era. Discuss.

Over rated by who and to what level ? I know stacks of people who think he was utterly rubbish his whole career which is complete gash, I dont actually know anyone who claims that he was one of the best players on the planet at anytime.
I think most sensible people would say he was a very good player who had an incredibly successful career.....which in my mind is exactly what he was.

[super_realist]

I think Rooney is more over-rated than Beckham in terms of footballing ability.
Pretty easy to see Rooney isn't European class.

[mystiroakey]

what does european class mean SR?

[kwinigolfer]

1).Reckon Murray has one GREAT performance in him per tournament - usually it is spent in the semi so maybe it's time for a super final performance.

2).Didn't see much of Beckham at his best, but that is well in the past, and largely a no-show in European Championships and World Cup final tournaments. Only thing I don't understand is why he was in the stand-by squad if he wasn't going to be selected. Asking for trouble.
I find the current edition of "Beckham" a total diva, but that is usually an unpopular thing to write on this board.

[super_realist]

The class below World Class, and Rooney showed just how ordinary he is at the Euro's. A considerable distance behind those who shone at the Euro's.

[mystiroakey]

so is Van persie or Ozil European class.

Is balotteli better than the above?

[mystiroakey]

oh whats the class below european class?

Just so i know?

[navyblueshorts]

On a completely different note: David Beckham is the most over-rated professional footballer of this or any era. Discuss.

kaka?

What? You're saying Beckham is kaka? Bit strong but I see where you're coming from....

[super_realist]

Rooney has consistently shown that he is average at International level, actually the entire England team have.
I'm sick of hearing how Ashley Cole is the best left back in international football. Just don't see it myself. Half decent, but no end product, no pace anymore either.

Class below European class is Domestic Class, which is charecterised by players able to have better players around them than they get at international level, i.e ROoney is surrounded by better players at Man U than England.

[Diggers]

Why would you call him a diva Kwini ? Any tantrums or actions to back that up, certainly not what we hear about him other here. Maybe he gets a different press in the States ?

[mystiroakey]

rating people as this class or that class is all abit immaterial to me.

rating people on one tourny is also immaterial.

rating players on the overall records(club and international) is much better over a significant lenght of time.

We need to get away from the world class tag- let alone inventing other tags!!

Spain made every other team look rubbish and that is the fact of it

[mystiroakey]

Rooney has consistently shown that he is average at International level, actually the entire England team have.
I'm sick of hearing how Ashley Cole is the best left back in international football. Just don't see it myself. Half decent, but no end product, no pace anymore either.

Class below European class is Domestic Class, which is charecterised by players able to have better players around them than they get at international level, i.e ROoney is surrounded by better players at Man U than England.

whats the next class- pub league?

[navyblueshorts]

Just to clarify. I don't blame Beckham really for the hype but when all you can really do is strike a dead ball well it isn't really quite what the hoopla suggests is it? Can't head it, can't tackle, left foot simply for standing on. Good pro, looks after his body and you don't get scandals surrounding him. World class player? Nah.

[super_realist]

So we can say that Rooney, Beckham etc are good domestically but not internationally? THerefore they are domestic class, but not world class.

Yes, Pub Standard is Celtic/Rangers, if they are lucky

[mystiroakey]

the class deabte is gonna go on and on lol. Surely we have all been there and wasted countless hours of our lifes!!lol

Becks was a special player. amazing long passer,crosser and dead ball specialist.. one to admire. end of story- also rated by the best in the game..arguing about classes or worlds best or overrated- yawwwwnnn

[navyblueshorts]

Rooney has consistently shown that he is average at International level, actually the entire England team have.
I'm sick of hearing how Ashley Cole is the best left back in international football. Just don't see it myself. Half decent, but no end product, no pace anymore either.

Class below European class is Domestic Class, which is charecterised by players able to have better players around them than they get at international level, i.e ROoney is surrounded by better players at Man U than England.

Have to disagree with you here S_R. In particular, Rooney was exceptional in 2006 (except for the idiot sending off) at that European championship. He does seem to have a recent habit of mailing it in for England I'll grant you.

I can't see much to like about Cashly either but he's one of the few who I think actually performs most of the time for England. Has been genuinely good.

[mystiroakey]

So we can say that Rooney, Beckham etc are good domestically but not internationally? THerefore they are domestic class, but not world class.

Yes, Pub Standard is Celtic/Rangers, if they are lucky

but you said they wernt european class??

what about cl performances?

are they belgium domestic class- or pl domestic class. wouldnt an average player be a domestic class not one that is the best in the league!

This is all immaterial

[kwinigolfer]

Digs,
He's still treated as if he's in his prime, almost understandable here where footie is at such a poor standard, but not in Europe where any thinking person would see he hasn't played above Conference level in, what?, almost three years.
But he seems to lap it up.
He should have had the good grace to remove himself from Olympic participation, but not a bit of it.

[super_realist]

I think when "the best" are asked by the media they are hardly likely to say anything that isn't complimentary about a fellow pro. He isn't going to say he's a one trick pony with an annoying voice and a stupid wife.

A bit like when a golf journo asks a player at St.Andrews what his favourite course is, he's hardly going to call it a dog with fleas. Just manners.

I happen to think Beckham was pretty decent, but if for example he was from Finland or Hungary and not English, and looked like Iain Dowie, I doubt he'd be rated so highly, so certainly a degree of over-ratedness about him.

[navyblueshorts]

the class deabte is gonna go on and on lol. Surely we have all been there and wasted countless hours of our lifes!!lol

Becks was a special player. amazing long passer,crosser and dead ball specialist.. one to admire. end of story- also rated by the best in the game..arguing about classes or worlds best or overrated- yawwwwnnn

Who cares about 'class'? I'm being objective and Beckham is nowhere near the player that the media portray him as. He's never taken a game by the scruff of the neck (except, arguably that Greece game) and imposed himself on it. Laughably, he was once compared in the same breath with Zidane and Figo. Yes, being a dead ball specialist is something and I'll grant Beckham has more awareness of other players' movements/positions than many of his contemporaries but properly world leading? You have to be joking? Surely.

[mystiroakey]

SR what do you think of Ibraham then?

guy is seriously rated and for good reason but plays in a team with lesser players.

Look pal- we rate players based on there abilities at top clubs- be that at a top European club side or a top international team.. If you dont play in a top international team you dont really have the chance to shine

[navyblueshorts]

Why would you call him a diva Kwini ? Any tantrums or actions to back that up, certainly not what we hear about him other here. Maybe he gets a different press in the States ?

DB being a diva:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/02/david-beckham-brawl-san-jose-mascot-watch_n_1642617.html

[mystiroakey]

the class deabte is gonna go on and on lol. Surely we have all been there and wasted countless hours of our lifes!!lol

Becks was a special player. amazing long passer,crosser and dead ball specialist.. one to admire. end of story- also rated by the best in the game..arguing about classes or worlds best or overrated- yawwwwnnn

Who cares about 'class'? I'm being objective and Beckham is nowhere near the player that the media portray him as. He's never taken a game by the scruff of the neck (except, arguably that Greece game) and imposed himself on it. Laughably, he was once compared in the same breath with Zidane and Figo. Yes, being a dead ball specialist is something and I'll grant Beckham has more awareness of other players' movements/positions than many of his contemporaries but properly world leading? You have to be joking? Surely.

when did i say he was world leading?- you have to be joking?, surely?. But actually yes he was at the abilities i mentioned. You got to be crazy if you arnt aware of that fact!

[Diggers]

Not sure any of that makes him a diva really. The reason he is treated the way he is isnt for footballing reasons, his fame has always exceeded that so the level he is playing at is a bit irrelevant. For sure he loves the fame but he has also come across as pretty easy going and humble. Ive never heard of a jornalist writing a single word suggesting he acted like a diva.
I think like any athlete he had every right to put himself forward for the Olympics, he is a local lad, it means a lot to him. His reaction to not being selected was what mattered and he was completely fine about it, no hissy fit, just OK Im disapointed but Im pulling for the team.

[navyblueshorts]

the class deabte is gonna go on and on lol. Surely we have all been there and wasted countless hours of our lifes!!lol

Becks was a special player. amazing long passer,crosser and dead ball specialist.. one to admire. end of story- also rated by the best in the game..arguing about classes or worlds best or overrated- yawwwwnnn

Who cares about 'class'? I'm being objective and Beckham is nowhere near the player that the media portray him as. He's never taken a game by the scruff of the neck (except, arguably that Greece game) and imposed himself on it. Laughably, he was once compared in the same breath with Zidane and Figo. Yes, being a dead ball specialist is something and I'll grant Beckham has more awareness of other players' movements/positions than many of his contemporaries but properly world leading? You have to be joking? Surely.

when did i say he was world leading?- you have to be joking?, surely?. But actually yes he was at the abilities i mentioned. You got to be crazy if you arnt aware of that fact!

That's right. Avoid the issue...

[mystiroakey]

avoid what issue??

what you talking about?

[super_realist]

But Oakey, we constantly hear how England are a top international team, so how come the "Golden Generation" have never performed?

Are they not anymore, or have they never really been?

There have been plenty of players who perform well at International level in poor teams. Larsson, Ibrahimovic, Shevchenko, Hagi, Popescu, Davor Suker Hakan Sukar, Laudrup etc.

[navyblueshorts]

I know what I'm on about but I'm not sure you do....

[mystiroakey]

Who says england are top international team?

We are a big nation when it comes to football, but our abilities on the international stage dont match our support, quality of league or history.

[Diggers]

Why would you call him a diva Kwini ? Any tantrums or actions to back that up, certainly not what we hear about him other here. Maybe he gets a different press in the States ?

DB being a diva:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/02/david-beckham-brawl-san-jose-mascot-watch_n_1642617.html

One of the thousands of examples of Beckham not being a diva....
http://www.unicef.org.uk/Latest/News/david-beckham-unicef-manila-la-galaxy/

[mystiroakey]

I know what I'm on about but I'm not sure you do....

very odd comment- your lost pal. your up the creek without a paddle. talk some sense?

If you wanna talk about this point i have avoided come out and state it!!!!!!!!!!

[navyblueshorts]

Who says england are top international team?

We are a big nation when it comes to football, but our abilities on the international stage dont match our support, quality of league or history.

But.....Beckham's been a big part of that over recent history. What are you implying here Mysti???

[mystiroakey]

NBS its kind of self explanitary

and has zip all todo with beckham

[super_realist]

England have a poor history. No better than Sweden in the last 30 years.

[mystiroakey]

I meant history with football- not recent history- we invented the game we know. that was surely obvious

[navyblueshorts]

NBS its kind of self explanitary

and has zip all todo with beckham

Au contraire. It has a great deal to do with Beckham. He's been a central part of a team that's failed, repeatedly, on the International stage and yet somehow he's this God descended to amaze us with his footballing skills. Even if you accept that there are great players in average teams, you can't even make a case that it's the case with Beckham. He's been a decent player in an average, over-rated International side. I actually think he's OK cf. many other footballers; I just don't think he's remotely the player HE'S MADE OUT TO BE. Is that clear enough?

[super_realist]

Who cares about whether you invented it or not, it means nothing in regard to your standing in the game of which you have almost none.

Perenial QFists just mean you are also rans.

[navyblueshorts]

Oh and well done Stuart Pearce.

[super_realist]

Agree with Navy, if Beckham was anything but English, we'd barely have heard of him. Just another half decent player with a long career at decent clubs.
Not the catalyst for anything major, just a cog in a wheel.

[mystiroakey]

NBS its kind of self explanitary

and has zip all todo with beckham

Au contraire. It has a great deal to do with Beckham. He's been a central part of a team that's failed, repeatedly, on the International stage and yet somehow he's this God descended to amaze us with his footballing skills. Even if you accept that there are great players in average teams, you can't even make a case that it's the case with Beckham. He's been a decent player in an average, over-rated International side. I actually think he's OK cf. many other footballers; I just don't think he's remotely the player HE'S MADE OUT TO BE. Is that clear enough?

nope it had nothing to do with beckham- i was talking to SR about something very different.

What is this obbsession that you think people think Beckham is a god of football.. lol

[Bob_the_Job]

Just to clarify. I don't blame Beckham really for the hype but when all you can really do is strike a dead ball well it isn't really quite what the hoopla suggests is it? Can't head it, can't tackle, left foot simply for standing on. Good pro, looks after his body and you don't get scandals surrounding him. World class player? Nah.

Rebecca Loos anyone?

[mystiroakey]

Agree with Navy, if Beckham was anything but English, we'd barely have heard of him. Just another half decent player with a long career at decent clubs.
Not the catalyst for anything major, just a cog in a wheel.

it has nothing to do with him being english- it has everything to do with him playing at top clubs and being very good looking. But most of us realise he was a good player but we dont overrate him.

[navyblueshorts]

Just to clarify. I don't blame Beckham really for the hype but when all you can really do is strike a dead ball well it isn't really quite what the hoopla suggests is it? Can't head it, can't tackle, left foot simply for standing on. Good pro, looks after his body and you don't get scandals surrounding him. World class player? Nah.

Rebecca Loos anyone?

Ah! A good point. Forgot that one. Strike that bit about scandals....

[navyblueshorts]

Agree with Navy, if Beckham was anything but English, we'd barely have heard of him. Just another half decent player with a long career at decent clubs.
Not the catalyst for anything major, just a cog in a wheel.

it has nothing to do with him being english- it has everything to do with him playing at top clubs and being very good looking. But most of us realise he was a good player but we dont overrate him.

But that's just the point isn't it? Most people do exactly that, especially in the media.

[Diggers]

If you look at Englands finishes in major events over the past 20 years I think the average puts us in the top 10 teams in the world comfortably. If the Swedes are better than that...which I dont think they are...then fair play to them.
And how often have England gone out in open play ? Not very often. The fact is if we could take penalties the finsihes in major tournaments owuld be very impressive, regardless of whether the football was.

[mystiroakey]

He would have alot more scandels if he wasnt so super rich and influencial that he can actually make real use of super injuctions. But that has nothing to do with him being overrated. Id actually say more people think he was much worse than he was. Noone puts him in zidnae, messis or figos league

[super_realist]

Oakey, it's not just Beckham, it's the media and widely held English belief that many of their players are far better than any of them actually are.

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